20 Questions – Big Battles

[Patrickwg]

Do these Big Battles work like a Guid Wars 2 World event, in that we have no control when they start? Or do we start them up like we would an instance?

Also, any idea when we can pre-order? I can't wait. So excited.

start like instances this is not regular landscape content

[Eartholloth]

This has a lot of potential, just please don't let it be buggy...

No matter how long they work on this there will be bugs.

[DanteIL]

Are there any plans for traditional Instanced group content (especially raids) set in Western Rohan or are Big-Battles strictly what we're expecting for this expansion. (Both at launch, and as part of our region purchase, even if delayed)

It seems like this Q/A pretty much definitely says "no," Big Battles are it for this expansion -->

Q10: Will Helm’s Deep also feature traditional boss progression style group content?

No. Helm’s Deep instance content is being represented fully with the Big Battles system.

[energon]

Thanks for the update, looks promising! I am curious, is there anything you can tell us about the music for Helm's Deep? Will we be graced with the work of Chance Thomas once more? Apologies if this has been asked/answered already.

Edit: Ok, looks like Chance won't be doing this one. But any other details would be cool

[etrurica]

Since I'm not really satisfy of the last year updates, I've got a silly question. There is any possibility to try to new content before deciding whether to extend my vip Subscription?

[Beorthnoth]

Since I'm not really satisfy of the last year updates, I've got a silly question. There is any possibility to try to new content before deciding whether to extend my vip Subscription?

Bullroarer is your friend

[Sapience]

Do these Big Battles work like a Guid Wars 2 World event, in that we have no control when they start? Or do we start them up like we would an instance?

Also, any idea when we can pre-order? I can't wait. So excited.

No. You start an instance.

And...... yes, but no we aren't saying just yet.

[Liarie]

Wow, this sounds kind of like a PvE version of Dark Age of Camelot's battlegrounds system. I hope there will be siege weaponry on both sides!

[Namesse]

Are there any plans for traditional Instanced group content (especially raids) set in Western Rohan or are Big-Battles strictly what we're expecting for this expansion. (Both at launch, and as part of our region purchase, even if delayed)

I'd expect them to come after launch, given that JWB seems to be the designer on this 'Big Battles' tech.


Are any of the 'Big Battles' Spaces going to involve the use of mounted combat?

I thought one of the earlier 20 questions said that they (the instance team) are focused solely on the Helm's Deep experience and that after that they would look into either scaling instances or creating new ones.

Since new instances, much less an entire cluster, take close to a year to conceptualize, write specs, develop, alpha test, Palantir test, beta test, etc. there just may not be any new instances with HD at all if Turbine sticks with an expac a year schedule.

If that timeline is indeed somewhat close, then it's my preference that they work on instances for the next expac to be available upon release, but that's just me.

I could be wrong though, Turbine will tell us something in their own time if there's anything to tell. Since they haven't mentioned anything about a traditional IC, you should not assume that there will be one associated with the expac.

[red5]

i like the sound of what your trying to do with the idea of the notion of big battles

my main concern with what is being developed is that,

the content mechanics don't open the current endgame players up to being grieved by a rouge lvl10 player in group

or say thee are 6 lvl95 friends who have been playing together for years & want to experience the helms deep big battle with a the max number of players

so they join the instance finder group & a number of lvl10's join up, say 6 lvl10's they get there skill & gear auto level'd to 95

there are a number of outcomes that could arise & cause major problems to the end game player enjoyment

1 the level 10's won't know about combat & the aggro table or group coordination.... eg say they all go rushing into battle & wipe the group

2 you'll have lvl95 players baby siting level10's this will not last for long because shouting matches in game aren't fun

3 there are a number of current players who don't like other players on their servers, it wouldn't take much to get a second account to lvl10 & join a 95 group & grief that game play until there is no fun left for the 95 players

so in saying this i hope you guys at turbine understand the problems you can open up, when making new game content

i know that helms deep will not be a pvp system & turbine does want to do that with this content

but you would still get the new content buzz with a pvp system, you already have it with the ettenmoors

the lvl10's who have to play for the forces of sauron....until they level'd to a curtain in game level say lvl60. this would cut down on the grief situation. after level60 in game level they could then try out the free peoples side
this would create a buzz but also get the new players to learn skills & grouping mechanics by the time they reach for a goal

the same could apply for endgame level95 players after completing a deed system to the new content, it could unlock the ability to bring into the battle a ranked creep out of the ettenmoors & into the helms deep big battle. a reward for hard work done


i wish i had said this sooner, but realize that the plans have been made & we the players are probably heading down a locked path

i will try the new system & hope that it lives up to the expectations i have, i wish turbine staff all the best in their work ahead

[Alakranus]

I think its great that lower level players will be able to join in with our upper level characters. Usually lower level players in our kinship need to either standby while the rest of us run max level content or when we do run them through instances its a quick steamroll through things. With this, we can do the battles together as a kinship and everyone can contribute however they are able to and more importantly have fun together. What would also be fun is a huge 24 man version where people get thrown together randomly for some chaotic fun

Looking forward to hearing more details!

[Grimdoin_EU]

no we aren't saying just yet.

"Not just yet"? Where does that fit within "Definitions of Time - by Sapience"?!? Is that like 'soon' or 'MoreSoonerish"?

[Boraxxe]

"Not just yet"? Where does that fit within "Definitions of Time - by Sapience"?!? Is that like 'soon' or 'MoreSoonerish"?

I interpret that as "not soon".

[LordoftheThings]

Thanks for some information!

I have 2 questions though-

Canon: No, I don't have a problem with minstrels strumming in the face of Uruks. However, what happens if, for example, Aragorn dies? Does it change the course of the battle if our beloved Theoden is slaughtered?

Battle Style: Is every Uruk a target or is it more like The Prince of Rohan where most are not mobs, and a only few at a time run at you?

[Linus_Alaska]

First and foremost … thanks for the update!

Q3: Can a level 10 character group with a level 95 character in a Battle?
Q4: How can a level 10 character hope to contribute successfully to the Battle?

The Battle for Helm’s Deep utilizes a new feature called Character Upscaling. When you join an instance in the Battle for Helm’s Deep we scale your character’s stats and skills to level 95. Your equipment is scaled as well, with the level differential between you and the equipment being maintained through the upscaling.
With everyone now being the same level, 95, groups can be assembled from anyone on the server available to play. While an upscaled 95 will be less powerful than a true 95, through the Medals system they will still be able to meaningfully contribute.

I like this from the aspect that it will allow non-level capped (up-scaled) players to participate in higher level content (even if at a diminished capacity than a true level 95 character.) How well will a player who has only leveled their character to lvl 10, 20, 30 etc. be at that character -- Knowledge of skills, good rotations etc.? That really isn't a mechanic of the battle scheme, but something to think about if you are trying to complete the battle with a high 'rating' for the better rewards.

[Elrantiri]

Okay 1st thing wrong here, anyone NOT at their level cap won't know how to play their class to the full extent therefore this auto scale is horrible idea. I know plenty of current capped lvl 85s who don't know how to play their class, they won't contribute very much at all it will be like my Kin taking a fresh lv85 into a T2 Raid, they'll die right away until the whole fight is over.

2nd. Re think this whole method over PLEASE.

I'd expect quite the opposite. A lvl 10 character will (I guess!) only have the abilities for a lvl 10 toon, which gives a much simpler class than a lvl 85 and thus a bigger chance that he can play the class properly. Reaching lvl 85 says nothing about whether you understand the class or not, I have seen way too many 85'ers who only utilize very few of the skills available, because the player only needed to use few skills to level himself to 85.

I expect lvl 10 toons will be more effective per skill to make up for having fewer skills available, e.g. that lvl 10 Captains Rallying Cry will heal more than lvl 95 Rallying Cry to make up for higher cooldown, no Valiant Strike etc., but I could be wrong of course.

[TinDragon]

If I'm level 10 and I'm talking to Gandalf in the prancing pony, how can I in an eyeblink be fighting in Helm's Deep? Its bad enough we have no conception of space anymore, just instance joining to and fro. Now we have no tether to time either?

How is that any different from a lowbie chilling in Bree joining the Trouble in Tuckborough skirmish that has been out for years? That skirmish takes place after the Ring is destroyed.

[Taravith]

there are a number of outcomes that could arise & cause major problems to the end game player enjoyment

1 the level 10's won't know about combat & the aggro table or group coordination.... eg say they all go rushing into battle & wipe the group

2 you'll have lvl95 players baby siting level10's this will not last for long because shouting matches in game aren't fun

Those arguments mirror some made on the thread about the Instance Finder.

I personally don't mind people royally screwing up in a group thing - happens to everyone and makes things exciting and challenging. I also take a lot of satisfaction from helping people learn the ropes. But I can understand how more competitive players can approach grouping with a different frame of mind.

I wonder if it would be possible to add an option in match-making to differenciate between "serious business" and "whatever dude" groups/people so we don't ruin eachother's experience.

[Hurin]

We asked ourselves not “What can we make with the pieces we have?” but instead “What pieces do we need to make what we want?” We shifted the narrative so that instead of asking ourselves “Why?” we asked “Why not?”

The Kennedy brothers would be proud.

[furtim]

This sounds like a very interesting mechanic. I could see it used for Pellenor Fields, and also the battles at Erebor, Lothlorien, and the Black Gate.

I absolutely LOVE the idea of everyone being able to play together regardless of level; however it poses the question of skill set. A level 10 character only has a handful of skills and no class traits or virtues. How is a level 10 Minstrel supposed to heal with only Raise the Spirit available? Even if it is a level 95 RtS?

Well, Turbine has announced class revamps to ship with Helm's Deep. It's possible that the revamps will fill in the gaps somehow.

So HD big battles will use the same RNG looting system as all the current scaled instances? great....

I don't understand how you got that from what jwbarry said. The way he described Medals sounds like something closer to deeds than RNG drops or even barter tokens. (Though it's probably not quite like deeds, either.)

[PKCrichton]

We're in the midst of heavy client and server performance testing on Big Battles. The client testing is specifically targetting min and rec spec machines at various graphics settings. Optimizations will follow once we've isolated out some areas to focus on that cause the most problems. Our goal is that Big Battles be a playable experience for everyone.

Something I highly recommend be kept in mind during all this testing is a number of people still use 32 bit systems so they don't have the massive amounts of ram that those with a 64 bit system have the ability to have at their command for use. RoR already introduced some massive resource issues that have even now never been fixed where the game on a 32 bit system will eat up over 1.6gb of ram on its own when running on win 7. This was bugged back in RoR beta and has continually been bucked for months after launch.

[Ankehataframanaro]

Hi all,

Agree a lot for this, i'm on Win7 32bits system.

Don't forget us

Ty

[WBS]

When a low level character is Upscaled to level 95 will they gain all the level 95 skills for their class? I'm assuming they would have to and, if that's so, that sounds like a total disaster waiting to happen to me.

Anyone remember how it felt the first time you were dumped into a combat Session Play with a hotbar full of skills that you'd never seen and had no idea what they were? Then as you try to read about them the battle has started and you are getting attacked, so you end up randomly clicking at buttons hoping they're right.

Won't that be a great position for a bunch of players to be in during a raid party?

[Laire]

This is all very cool. My biggest concerns would be, at this point, performance and rewards for difficulties. Performance looks like it is being looked into. Loot... If I have to run it 316 times to get the RNG to like me (such as I had to do for Sambrog and the hunter pocket drop) while my kinmate gets it on his alt that he rarely raids with the first run through... I may snap :P

Please make loot a bit less random and more representing the difficulty (or at least amount of times) something is run in these instances. And later possibly do the same for scaled instances :P

[jwbarry]

When a low level character is Upscaled to level 95 will they gain all the level 95 skills for their class? I'm assuming they would have to and, if that's so, that sounds like a total disaster waiting to happen to me.

Anyone remember how it felt the first time you were dumped into a combat Session Play with a hotbar full of skills that you'd never seen and had no idea what they were? Then as you try to read about them the battle has started and you are getting attacked, so you end up randomly clicking at buttons hoping they're right.

Won't that be a great position for a bunch of players to be in during a raid party?

In my mind the tag line for upscaling is "Click, Enter, Play". That simple and straightforward. That means no new skills, no more trait points, no new virtues, no new equipment, nothing to configure or setup or learn. Your existing stuff is statistically scaled and away you go.