XP Reducer

[FoxFire]

I realize you're trying to make a point with the whole XP toggle concept, but steering clear of that level of hyperbole may actually help your cause. You lose credibility when you go that far off the deep end.

There was an intended degree of sarcasm (or hyperbole if you will) in my post. Hence the --> at the end. In the event it wasn't obvious to all.

[Lohi]

There's no way you're going to play only a "small handful" of the quests in Mirkwood and still hit level 65, not unless you do one horrendous amount of grinding on MOBs.

This may be true if you're already level 60 with Kindred Lothlorien rep and are ready to go to Mirkwood when it is released. But if you're still in Moria, or not even there yet, you'll be over level 60 by the time you get to Mirkwood (I suspect there is no bypassing the reputation requirement to travel through Lorien to get to the Anduin). It wouldn't be that hard a stretch to think some players will be 62 before they get to Mirkwood, even with skipping some Moria/Lorien quests, and 63 if they try to do a larger chunk of quests in all Moria zones.

[FoxFire]

So do your own planning, and do the quests you want to do first, so you'll do the ~80% or so of them you'll probably need to get to level 65 at level.

Khafar

By-the-way, how is a player (particularly a new player) supposed to know which way to go? How do they know what is or isn't important, or that if they skip over a quest chain or area, that they aren't missing out on something really important, or something that they would have great interest in?

How do you know, "Am I supposed to do North Downs or Lone Lands. What are the ramifications of doing one over the other?". There isn't any clear indication that you are only supposed to do one or the other on level; no clear "Here is one path you can take, and here is another". How do you know, "If I pass by this seemingly trivial NPC and her 'request', that I'm not skipping over a 10 quest long series that leads to some really interesting and important things"?

Not everyone has the time or inclination to play multiple alts. For those that do, GREAT they can go different ways and experience different things with each Alt (though most will probably be the same). For those that don't, why not give them the option to do MORE of the quests and activities on level, with a single toon?

[GregJL]

(I suspect there is no bypassing the reputation requirement to travel through Lorien to get to the Anduin).

The only reputation required for passing through the woods is acquaintance, and getting that hasn't even brought a half-level to anyone I know.

[Thrindal]

By-the-way, how is a player (particularly a new player) supposed to know which way to go? How do they know what is or isn't important, or that if they skip over a quest chain or area, that they aren't missing out on something really important, or something that they would have great interest in?

You made it very clear in an earlier post that you were in a minority of elite players who took the time to truly appreciate and explore the game world. I would think a player like that would be able to figure things out on their own.

As for a less seasoned player, he or she will have a lot of quest options, which is better than limiting them to fewer quests.

[Ohioastro]

By-the-way, how is a player (particularly a new player) supposed to know which way to go? How do they know what is or isn't important, or that if they skip over a quest chain or area, that they aren't missing out on something really important, or something that they would have great interest in?

How do you know, "Am I supposed to do North Downs or Lone Lands. What are the ramifications of doing one over the other?". There isn't any clear indication that you are only supposed to do one or the other on level; no clear "Here is one path you can take, and here is another". How do you know, "If I pass by this seemingly trivial NPC and her 'request', that I'm not skipping over a 10 quest long series that leads to some really interesting and important things"?

Not everyone has the time or inclination to play multiple alts. For those that do, GREAT they can go different ways and experience different things with each Alt (though most will probably be the same). For those that don't, why not give them the option to do MORE of the quests and activities on level, with a single toon?

You will in practice do OK if you follow a single quest theme to its conclusion and then move on. There are two "themes" in Bree - a bandit theme and the epic theme. If you move on after doing one or the other you'll be about right for Trestlebridge, etc. If you insist on doing both you'll be overlevel. (You are overlevel for the Lonely Inn no matter what, unfortunately, and I think this implies a global fix.)

The same rule basically obtains anywhere - work a line through and if the other quests in the area go green then move on. If you get stuck work through quest lines in parallel. (This also gives you more challenge since you'll be doing the end quests when yellow typically.)

In practice if you skip the fellowship quests then you can pretty much exhaust the 20ish -40ish content and do pretty much everything. This is pretty close to true even with the fellowship quests - Dol D. might compete with the Trollshaws, but you would still be able to do most things.

You have about 2-3 toons worth of content to carry you into the 50 range; that is where the overhang reappears. In practice you can do about half of North/East Angmar, Misties, or Forochel with any one toon.

There is also some excess quest capability in Moria, Eregion, Lothlorien, but these actually support a bunch of classes and distinct play styles, so I think that is OK.

Note that turning quest exp off would be a veteran and not a new player tactic anyhow; a new player wouldn't know what to do with such a feature and what long-term consequences it might have without consulting some external guide in any case. Which they could equally well use to pick and choose quest lines.

[GregJL]

For those that don't, why not give them the option to do MORE of the quests and activities on level, with a single toon?

When *I* grow up, I'm gonna be a doctor-lawyer-astronaut-dancer-fireman-policeman-scientist-rockstar-actor-director-producer-basketball-baseball-football-swimmer.....

[Kraggy]

How do they know what is or isn't important, or that if they skip over a quest chain or area, that they aren't missing out on something really important

The quest system doesn't allow this. Please identify one 'really important' part of the content that you're not directed to by a prominent quest giver?

[Kraggy]

When *I* grow up

Let's hope that happy event isn't long delayed.

[Adalas]

This is just silly. The only place where you have that sort of content overloading is levels 1-15, and that's because they're racially distinctive starting areas.

Not quite. You're also able to leave the complete Lone Lands aside (my lvl 32 RK did Ered Luin (complete Elven part) -> Breeland (complete except the human starting area) -> North downs with a short visit of northern Shire at 28 or 29. Ok, I had often a blue bar but I didn't grind for deeds too so that should be equivalent. I also think that you can leave complete Forochel or Angmar or Misty Mountains and use only two of the others until you enter Eregion on 45.

[sickboy65]

If an XP reducer is so important to some people, and other games offer this feature, I have to ask...Why aren't you playing one of the games that has this feature you want?

[Khafar]

By-the-way, how is a player (particularly a new player) supposed to know which way to go?

They aren't, and it's largely irrelevant. Do the things you encounter and which are appropriate to your level, and you'll be fine. There just isn't a ton of content overloading in this game at any level past 15-20, and what there is just gives you more options for later.

I simply don't believe that many players, when faced with hundreds of quests or simply grinding away on MOBs, will pick "grinding away on MOBs". Not until they're sick of the quests because they've done them N times already. Quests give some structure to your adventuring, offer rewards, and generally provide the best XP too.

And if you discover that you've "missed" something... so what? Happens in every MMO. You didn't find some quest hub until you were 5 levels above it, and then no amount of stopping your XP will help you find any sort of challenge there. So you do it later, on a different character. Or you do it anyway, just to see for yourself. Or you skip it, knowing there are other fun things to do ahead.

Khafar

[findorin-gilrain]

If an XP reducer is so important to some people, and other games offer this feature, I have to ask...Why aren't you playing one of the games that has this feature you want?

I'm ambivalent about the toggle myself, but isnt this the most puerile argument ever? I'm sure there are a lot of features in a lot of other games that lots of players in this game would like. Maybe they should all leave? Or maybe, because they like this game and the lore despite the missing feature, they ask for it to be included in this game?

[Dago_Red]

Yeah that's a pointless avenue to venture down.

I have never played any of those games nor do I care to - the fact that other games have implemented this only shows that it is :

+Possible
+Popular
+Already successfully implemented elsewhere

User defined options are the cutting edge of game development and I wouldn't want to see Lotro fall behind. Let people play/progress how they want to and they will love you for it.

[Beldacar]

Yep, me too. I played first on Morningthaw, then moved over to Wintersebb with friends from both MT and CoD to form a new allegiance there. Back in those days, I went by "Kryloc the Gray", and was pretty much a fixture at CoD the first few years .

Khafar

Yeah, the name sounds familiar. I was more of a lurker than a poster in those days, so I doubt anyone would remember me ;^)

[Beldacar]

This is just silly. The only place where you have that sort of content overloading is levels 1-15, and that's because they're racially distinctive starting areas. There's no way you're going to play only a "small handful" of the quests in Mirkwood and still hit level 65, not unless you do one horrendous amount of grinding on MOBs.

Even if you want to do that sort of horrendous grinding, simply sequencing the content first (with the grinding done at the level cap) means that you aren't going to have that problem.

Could an XP switch help with that? Sure. But you already know it won't be done for the expansion, and probably won't be done for the first Book update either (since they tend to plan those out a fair ways in advance). So do your own planning, and do the quests you want to do first, so you'll do the ~80% or so of them you'll probably need to get to level 65 at level.

Khafar

Semantics. My level 41 Guardian did the Riddle Master chain in Rivendell and the first five quests at Gloin's camp in the Misty Mountains and gained a level. While dragging my level 36 Hobbit Hunter around (my tracker / run buff / xp leech). Had he left the Hobbit at home he'd have taken a little longer, but gained twice as much xp for all the snow beasts, snow-lurkers, snow bears, and Corcur.

Does that count as a "handful" of quests? That's a matter of perspective. But all that Rest XP sure accelerated things along. Guess I should head back to Trollshaws or Evendim before I outlevel that content. Of course, the quest rewards that are actually -useful- at my level are in the Misty Mountains (or Angmar or Forochel). *shrug*

I guess my issue with all this is that LotRO has the levelling curve of a "directed experience" game while it has the exploration potential of a "sandbox" game. Unfortunately, the levelling curve is rapidly detracting from the "sandbox" aspect's appeal. Exploring by itself is fun, but it's a lot more fun when the local residents actually present a challenge.

So, fine, we're not going to get an XP reducer. I guess I should jump on Ohioastro's bandwagon and suggest they slow down the levelling curve back to what it used to be. It's too fast. If I can't tailor my own personal experience, I guess I should insist that Turbine slow down everyone else's levelling for -my- benefit ;^)

[Beldacar]

The quest system doesn't allow this. Please identify one 'really important' part of the content that you're not directed to by a prominent quest giver?

Armour of the Forest / Forest-walker / whatever the earring is called.

Best heavy armor set you can get for a low-40s character. Part of it comes from noticing a set of footprints on a hill to which no one ever specifically sends you. Part of it comes from a delivery quest chain that would be one of the first things I'd delete if I needed space in my journal (come on, "kill some bugs and make them into a stew for that Dwarf who tricked me" is high on my list of "this quest chain is going nowhere fast" cues). The last part comes from a quest chain in Echad Candelleth.

If you didn't go out of your way looking for these things, you probably would miss them completely or finish the quests once you had greatly outlevelled the utility of the rewards.

There's also the whole "can't start this chain unless you've completed -that- chain for that other guy" feature. Frankly, I'm just not going to waste my time "researching" all my options and "planning" which quests to do. I prefer a more free-form explorer playstyle. Nonetheless, I'd like to have the -option- to fully explore an area while the rewards are still useful to me. Barring that, I'd like Turbine to reverse the levelling curve changes they made back in Book 7. Content flowed much better back in the "good old days" before they made the game "too easy" ;^)

[Beldacar]

When *I* grow up, I'm gonna be a doctor-lawyer-astronaut-dancer-fireman-policeman-scientist-rockstar-actor-director-producer-basketball-baseball-football-swimmer.....

I always thought one of the major points of playing games was to be able to do things you can't do in the real world....

[Beldacar]

If an XP reducer is so important to some people, and other games offer this feature, I have to ask...Why aren't you playing one of the games that has this feature you want?

I am.

I have two SOE Station Access accounts that I keep active even when I'm not playing any of their games, just to reward them for producing some of the most polished games in the business.

In fact, I wouldn't play any game other than EQ2 if it were set anywhere other than Norrath, the Land of Derivative Fantasy Archetypes (Now With More Gnomes!).

However, I think Turbine has, for the most part, done an excellent job of capturing the look and feel of Middle-earth while remaining, for the most part, faithful to the lore. I want to reward them for doing that, so I also have two accounts in LotRO. While I'm here, I'm certainly going to advocate changes that I think would make the game better for myself and others.

[Beldacar]

I'm ambivalent about the toggle myself, but isnt this the most puerile argument ever? I'm sure there are a lot of features in a lot of other games that lots of players in this game would like. Maybe they should all leave? Or maybe, because they like this game and the lore despite the missing feature, they ask for it to be included in this game?

It is, however, a very common argument.

Heck, I miss the graphic violence of Age of Conan. Maybe I should go back and give the most incompetent MMO developer in the world more of my money, just so I can rip other player characters' heads off with my bare hands?

If I thought that such violence would work here in LotRO, I'd advocate adding it. But I have a very good idea how much work it would be to add all the animations -and- I think many LotRO fans would be very unhappy with the addition, even if it could be toggled on and off. So I won't suggest it be added. It's just not a good fit for this game.

An XP reducer that allows Explorers and Socializers to regulate their own characters' growth does fit this game. Not my fault the developers don't see it that way.

[Beldacar]

Yeah that's a pointless avenue to venture down.

I have never played any of those games nor do I care to - the fact that other games have implemented this only shows that it is :

+Possible
+Popular
+Already successfully implemented elsewhere

User defined options are the cutting edge of game development and I wouldn't want to see Lotro fall behind. Let people play/progress how they want to and they will love you for it.

^^^THIS^^^

[Sonzia]

By-the-way, how is a player (particularly a new player) supposed to know which way to go? How do they know what is or isn't important, or that if they skip over a quest chain or area, that they aren't missing out on something really important, or something that they would have great interest in?

How do you know, "Am I supposed to do North Downs or Lone Lands. What are the ramifications of doing one over the other?". There isn't any clear indication that you are only supposed to do one or the other on level; no clear "Here is one path you can take, and here is another". How do you know, "If I pass by this seemingly trivial NPC and her 'request', that I'm not skipping over a 10 quest long series that leads to some really interesting and important things"?

Not everyone has the time or inclination to play multiple alts. For those that do, GREAT they can go different ways and experience different things with each Alt (though most will probably be the same). For those that don't, why not give them the option to do MORE of the quests and activities on level, with a single toon?

This!

Frankly, I'm just not going to waste my time "researching" all my options and "planning" which quests to do. I prefer a more free-form explorer playstyle. Nonetheless, I'd like to have the -option- to fully explore an area while the rewards are still useful to me. Barring that, I'd like Turbine to reverse the levelling curve changes they made back in Book 7. Content flowed much better back in the "good old days" before they made the game "too easy" ;^)

And this!

I can see someone who has already been through all the lower level content with their handful of alts wanting to get onto the higher levels quickly, but for those of us exploring for the first time or so, it just seems like we're being moved along too quickly through the leveling. I've yet to do anything in Trestlebridge, because by the time I got there, all the quests were below my level. If I were to do them anyway, then by the time I got to the next region, then those would be below level. I can understand the point that someone else made about this allowing our other characters to explore those regions, but I don't want to have to have six characters to explore all the game content on level! I have two characters I really enjoy playing, and I'd rather dig in with them alone!

Roll back the experience boost from Book 7 for a starter and then explore other ways for people not in a rush to get to the endgame to enjoy all the awesome areas as a true player and not as a tourist passing quickly through!

[FoxFire]

So, fine, we're not going to get an XP reducer. I guess I should jump on Ohioastro's bandwagon and suggest they slow down the levelling curve back to what it used to be. It's too fast. If I can't tailor my own personal experience, I guess I should insist that Turbine slow down everyone else's levelling for -my- benefit ;^)

You KNOW.... this isn't a bad idea actually.

No seriously. We should start a thread (and then multiple threads) adamantly asking that Turbine not only Return to a Pre Book 7 leveling Curve, but that they ALSO dramatically slow down the leveling curve overall (for the entire game, for every player).

In this way, those who are opposed to this won't be saying "If you don't like it leave", but "Why don't you just settle for a toggle to reduce your XP".

This is the idea of asking for MORE than what you really want, so the compromise position is actually what you DO want.

Might be worth a try at this point.

[Sigram]

You KNOW.... this isn't a bad idea actually.

No seriously. We should start a thread (and then multiple threads) adamantly asking that Turbine not only Return to a Pre Book 7 leveling Curve, but that they ALSO dramatically slow down the leveling curve overall (for the entire game, for every player).

In this way, those who are opposed to this won't be saying "If you don't like it leave", but "Why don't you just settle for a toggle to reduce your XP".

This is the idea of asking for MORE than what you really want, so the compromise position is actually what you DO want.

Might be worth a try at this point.

Its not the players you have to convince. There needs to be enough people who want the feature, to get the dev team to adjust their priorities.



Also, all this talk of rolling back the XP curve. While I liked the original curve better, going back would be a disaster unless they let everyone keep the levels they've already earned.

[FoxFire]

If an XP reducer is so important to some people, and other games offer this feature, I have to ask...Why aren't you playing one of the games that has this feature you want?

Seriously?

Is that what you really want? Is that what you are suggesting of Turbine? See people leave their game? Disenchant a whole segment of player types who would otherwise stick with or be drawn to the game?

Sure it's one thing if someone is asking for a feature that dramatically departs from the spirit, core values, or fundamental nature of the game, but the feature being asked for here does none of that.

And it's certainly in Turbine's best interest to attract as many players (and player types) as possible, without compromising on those core game values of course.

If anything, an XP Toggle/Throttle would bring in (or retain) MORE of the kinds of players people seem to appreciate in LoTRO; people who aren't constantly in a rush looking out only for themselves, who are there at the lower levels willing to help out, who are crafting items to sell on the AH for people's lower level alts, and who are generally making sure the lower level content isn't a complete ghost town.

And let's not forget RPers. I know some people find them annoying, but why? I enjoy heavy RPers. I do a little myself, but mostly I enjoy coming upon people RPing. It enhances the game to see an RP conversation going on, and often I'll just hang around (as unobtrusively as possible) to observe the "performance". To me it enhances the 'realism' of the gaming world in a way NPCs could never do.

So... WHY would you want to encourage any or all of these people to leave?