Negative rep a no no conversation?

[Jilla]

I'll throw out a curve ball of sorts...

Has anyone here, personally, judged the quality of a post by the forum rep or do you judge on the merit of the post itself?

There seems to be an assumption that people are going to judge posts and the people behind the posts by the pips. I just wonder if that really even happens.

I for one judge the quality based on the post itself. I don't care if you have one green pip or a gazillion. I don't even look at it (unless I am going to give rep for the post since the little tool thingy is right there).

However, the flip side isn't true. I do take pause when I see red pips (although even then I usually only make a note of it unless I think it might be baiting to flame me later on--in which case I might refrain from participating in that conversation--but not always).

You know LOLcat pictures get more + rep then anything.

While this is true, I think it's because more people see the posts to give rep than the very specific topics. At least, when I post stuff here in the general forums, I tend to maybe get one or two rep from an individual post I make. But I might post 20 times here in a week. Where a post I make with a guide might get 5 positive feed backs, but since I only posted the one thread the whole week, overall, the numbers are lower. It's a result of population I think, not so much that people value LOLcats more. It's like being nickeled and dimed into positive rep. At least, that's my experience.

[ararax2]

You're proving my point. If the community itself is using rep in the wrong way, you don't think OCR should have the power to turn it back around themselves by using it in the proper way?

No not at all, if the tool is made to show what the general forum sees as problems or positive statements.

Good idea:
"Let's allow people to positively and negatively rate posts so we can see what posts are laudable such as guides and other well thought out and descriptive posts are worth identifying for their excellence and so we can also see what posts are flame fights waiting to happen."

Current situation:
Everyone gets + rep for absolute garbage.

Bad idea:
The Community Reps using their top tier to drop threads they don't like, which is the same as infractions, deleting, moving, warning, editing etc... that they do.

@Jilla
It would depend on how soon you got it. If you gave negative rep to a person with 0 reputation because you thought he was not nice (I would assume that you would not), he would be sitting around - 150 to 200 rep or 2-3 red dots. That is really how powerful people at the top tier's reputation points are. 15 to 20 times a normal users rating.

[aethelberht]

I'll throw out a curse ball of sorts...

Ooh. Never seen one of -those- at the AH.

[Jilla]

Ooh. Never seen one of -those- at the AH.

Buw-ah-ha-ha... a pox on your house! And your summer house too!

Okay, okay... I fixed the typo (but "curse ball" is funny.. sound like something Angmarian sorceresses might do instead of a Tupperware party)

[Zarador]

As Khafar said above. I don't know of any village, town or city here in the U.S. where the Police Officers are not allowed to vote in their local elections. That includes places where they still have Town Meetings (like New England) where the entire populace of that Town is allowed to vote. Especially on things like accepting the new contract with the local Police Union on their pay increases and benefits.

Agreed!

Since the "police" analogy was used as well as people complaining that the moderators are like police officers, of course they should be allowed to "vote".

Now since a moderator can "ban" a player or the lesser punishment of a Negative Reputation, the lesser action could be a "warning ticket" that some officers gave indicating that you got by this time, but you may want to be more mindful of your actions in the future.

Sure I believe like many that the reputation system has it's flaws and I am sure others misuse it as well. The results of such misuse should demonstrate a marginal, not drastic change. If you see your headed to the red at maximum warp, it probably is your actions, not the actions of rep abusers that is getting you there.

[gildhur]

If you gave negative rep to a person with 0 reputation because you thought he was not nice (I would assume that you would not), he would be sitting around - 150 to 200 rep or 2-3 red dots. That is really how powerful people at the top tier's reputation points are. 15 to 20 times a normal users rating.

Not true at all. I have one of the highest of any player, and the most anyone has gone up or down from my dings has been ~35. I've gotten a couple dings of ~50, but those are almost certainly from OCR, not players. No one has near enough to get into the triple digits from a single ding.

[ararax2]

Not true at all. I have one of the highest of any player, and the most anyone has gone up or down from my dings has been ~35. I've gotten a couple dings of ~50, but those are almost certainly from OCR, not players. No one has near enough to get into the triple digits from a single ding.

Oh your quite wrong.

Be on the receiving end.

[Sapience]

There shouldn't be anyone able to give triple digits. Not even the community team (I know mine don't). Especially for neg rep, as it is always half the rep power of the person giving it. So even if someone gave 100 positive rep (no one I am aware of at the moment), they would only give 50 negative rep.

[KainXI]

The Community Team gives out a lot of positive rep, too. I think there are a lot of people who would be surprised to find they've gotten positive rep from one of us for very well written posts. Even when they were critical and not supportive. It's not what you say, it's how you choose to say it.

^This. A couple of my posts critical of certain aspects of LOTRO have gotten rep bumps large enough that I suspect they came from a community manager. For all the critical posts of LOTRO I've made I have yet to ever get a -rep from one. I really don't think the community reps will rep anyone down for any reason other than a clear violoation of the guidelines.

[ararax2]

There shouldn't be anyone able to give triple digits. Not even the community team (I know mine don't). Especially for neg rep, as it is always half the rep power of the person giving it. So even if someone gave 100 positive rep (no one I am aware of at the moment), they would only give 50 negative rep.

I just went from 655 to 594, that's 61, today one negative rep.

[ArahadEketta]

I just went from 655 to 594, that's 61, today one negative rep.

Which is no where near the 150 - 200 mark you stated earlier.

[RicardoFurriel]

Isn't this thread locked yet?

[ararax2]

Which is no where near the 150 - 200 mark you stated earlier.

I'm not saying it's even close to the biggest, I'm just saying I had 655 this morning and 1 neg later 594.

That's all I'll say. I'm not saying I mind it, I'm just saying that there are huge numbers that people get hit by.

[Khafar]

There shouldn't be anyone able to give triple digits. Not even the community team (I know mine don't).

I looked at the manual for this stuff, and it says there are the following settings that the admins can make for how much rep can be given:

• Default Reputation (what you start with)
• Register Date Factor (bonus to how much rep you can give per "bump" based on how long you've been here)
• Post Count Factor (bonus to how much rep you can give based on total post count)
• Reputation Count Factor (bonus to how much rep you can give based on your current reputation)

I'm guessing (and I don't expect Sapience to tell us), but based on observation since it went live, I think it's set to something like:

• Default Reputation = 10-50
• Register Date Factor = 365 (1 extra point of rep you can give per year you've been here)
• Post Count Factor = 0 (doesn't matter)
• Repuation Count Factor = 100 (1 extra point of rep you can give per 100 total reputation you have)

There's also a way for admins to give themselves fixed rep bump numbers independent of the above, but Sapience has basically said that's not in use.

If that's in the ballpark, nobody will be giving 150 point bumps until they have nearly 15,000 rep. And 150-point negative rep won't happen until they have 30,000 rep.

Someone here who's recently hit 1500 rep bumped me the other day, and I got +23. I'm not going to hold my breath for +150 .

Khafar

[mjk47]

A way to go before I could even think about giving anyone -ve rep. I suspect that even if I reach that level I will still use the ignore list as my favourite vehicle for disapprobation.

[Dotlbeme]

Just curious, how do the community reps get their pips? Are they born with them? I would be REAL curious to see the community rate the reps' posts...

Can you down-rate a CR? I am guessing not...

[KainXI]

Just curious, how do the community reps get their pips? Are they born with them? I would be REAL curious to see the community rate the reps' posts...

Can you down-rate a CR? I am guessing not...

They get it from us. You will see devs who post infrequently have less rep. As far as I know you can rep down a community rep but none of them have ever done anything I thought was rep-down worthy.

[Sapience]

Just curious, how do the community reps get their pips? Are they born with them? I would be REAL curious to see the community rate the reps' posts...

Can you down-rate a CR? I am guessing not...

We earn them the same way you do. If you look around you'll see we all have different levels.

And yes, once you can give neg rep, you can give it to anyone.

[Dotlbeme]

Wow thanks. I never saw a CR that didn't have a full rep bar. But it does stand to reason people will be more likely to +rep some tidbit of REAL information (assuming its from an official source) over Joe Six-pack's info, so they do have an inherent advantage.

I do not put much stock in rep at face value like I said earlier. It is a nice 'tool' for limiting annoying behavior. As far as big +rep meaning much more than 'this person is not a troll', no, there it is limited.

[Hellgato]

I'd rather not have the blue names impartial information spewers. I'd like them to be active, more-informed, members of the community, involved in discussions.

[Ames]

And as Smokey says: "Only YOU can prevent forum fires.

Fixed it for you.

[GregJL]

It would be my opinion that in most times those who give out negative rep do so because they grow tired of an obvious, clear cut answer being given and then ignored. Then you see several threads after the topic being worded in a different way arguing again how they don't like the answer given as they act like a spoiled child stamping their feet and demanding that heads roll.

Actually I think some of it also comes FROM the chlidish foot-stompers who have ganged together to stroke one another's repuation to a sufficient level for them to spew forth their bile and then give negative rep to anyone who dares to criticize their poor attitudes.

[BellusDuFenna]

Actually I think some of it also comes FROM the chlidish foot-stompers who have ganged together to stroke one another's repuation to a sufficient level for them to spew forth their bile and then give negative rep to anyone who dares to criticize their poor attitudes.

Seriously? The CMs have made it clear in the past that they look for people trying to game the system in that way, and will remove any rep they got through said gaming, so how is this possible?

I just don't see that happening, Greg.

[Sporati]

Before this does get locked, what is the link that explains forum rep. I've often wondered how it works, so this thread even with the arguments has been enlightening for me, so thank you. I usually just check my CP and look for people needing tech help, so I often miss the good drama.

[Mymir]

Honestly I treat Forum Rep the same as any other form of Reputation.


Nice to have, but not essential to my enjoyment of the game.


I try to give good responses to questions and topics that interest me. If someone agrees with my thoughts or thinks that my post is worth rewarding, then that is fine. It doesn't affect how I post. It does show me that the person that read the post was impressed enough to take the time to actually Rep it.

As for my donating Rep, I treat that as more of a Reward than a handshake. I've been with this game for almost 4 years now and was a member of the Forums long before that. The actual Join Date that you see for me is after the game went Live. In all that time, I have seen some really horrific posters. Then again, I have seen some extremely talented people.

For me, I choose to reward very few and only then for something that actually astounds me with it's insight and general Above And Beyond content. I think that since the Rep system was implemented I have given Positive Rep to maybe 4 or 5 people. To me, it makes more of a statement if you give Rep when it is deserved and not just because something made you laugh or you like the person.

Having said all that, there are issues with the Reputation System. I have seen posts by Users with 5,6, and even 7 bars that were just plain hurtful and cruel. Some of these were from very large kinships, some were what I call Hit And Run posters, the kind that post maybe 5 or 6 words in a post, usually disruptive, and then never post again.

The system has its faults. It also has its benefits. But it should never be taken as a Scorecard for good or bad Posting habits. Read these forums often enough and you soon learn who has earned their Rep and who hasn't. I look more for the name of the Poster than their little Green Bars. And let's face facts.

Good Reputation is easy to get.

Good, quality posts are rare.


I remain,