Feedback: New Player Tips for Weavers

[NYSEguy1970]

Vs. BUR is actually the only matchup I really like on my Weaver. With all those dots and debuffs, most of what a BUR does is seriously handicapped. Even HiPS doesn't help much, because with their run speed slowed, with a root possibly being in place for a second or two, and with all that damage over time ticking away after HiPS has worn off, this kind of battle is one of the only ones where I've reliably seen BURs get into real trouble.

agreed...which is why I run w/the stealth detect corruption most of the time. I try to stack 3 poisons right away if I can. I try to get Tox on 1st, then TK, then PS..then I Run and Gun Hatchlings. This way the hatchlings will proc, and even if I'm locked down in a stun, if the burg is pounding on me while stunned, my hatchlings are eating them and my own dots are also eating away at them. when I come out of the stun I try to renew the tox (in case they start to get nervous and try to hips) then run and gun TK while kiting.

[MummyLord]

Burgs are too much effort just to watch them (or not watch them) after they hips. I'm usually half dead by the time I get a turn so I usually just leave the fight if I'm able. I just don't enjoy fighting them and lately it seems that ganking is the only way folks want to fight so it's one burg at first followed by another or a hidden hunter or something. Even a certain Rk I was praising just the other day had multiple hidden backups waiting in reserve. (I showed him though with a very pert /rude).

One thing I've noticed after rerolling more than once is how little I can see stealthed even with the stealth detect trait slotted. I don't know how much your rank has to do with it but I can't see most wargs at first and that stealth warning is annoying when you don't know who it is.

[22Acacia]

This thread would be funny if it wasn't so surreal that weavers have another dedicated stickied thread after the original "weaver issues" stickied thread stayed up over a year. Umm, Frelorn, you realize there's other classes besides weavers, right? And you know that weavers are a very powerful class that actually have it pretty good out there, right? And you know that the class isn't all that complicated I hope.

Just how long *have* you been playing weaver 'lorn?

[MummyLord]

This thread would be funny if it wasn't so surreal that weavers have another dedicated stickied thread after the original "weaver issues" stickied thread stayed up over a year. Umm, Frelorn, you realize there's other classes besides weavers, right? And you know that weavers are a very powerful class that actually have it pretty good out there, right? And you know that the class isn't all that complicated I hope.

Just how long *have* you been playing weaver 'lorn?

There always seems to be a post like yours in every weaver thread. What are you: the class monitor????

[Ezelohar]

Sorry but
"Weavers are THE most diverse and potentially powerful solo Creep class."
rather funny..
bet he is a freep that thinks they should bring back DF because hunters are under powered

Why is it funny?

Weavers have the most diverse skillset on creepside, and are well suited to solo play and 1v1 fights. Anyone who has substantial PvMP experience will tell you the same. By the way I have, amoung other creeps, a ranked Weaver, and I don't think Hunters are underpowered - if anything they (and all freeps) need a downgrade to skill damage multipliers.

But you're just another exclusive one side player who farmed for ranks, so you probably won't understand.

[thisisanewname]

Sorry but
"Weavers are THE most diverse and potentially powerful solo Creep class."
rather funny..
bet he is a freep that thinks they should bring back DF because hunters are under powered

why is that funny? at high ranks weavers probably are if not the best 1 of thest creep classes to solo on. If u look at all the higher ranked weavers (at least on brandy) we all have different styles of play.were unlike most creep classes weavers actually do have a variety of tools at their disposal making them diverse. so what he said is 100% true and this is coming from someone who has played a weaver for 3 years and not a freep.

[Morgul1975]

I recently stepped into the moors to get my creep on and I'd like to share a few tips. There's a few things that new players should generally be aware of.

Part I. Things every new player should know.

1.) Blue Ring/Red Ring - The ring on your character portrait is color coded. It's blue when you begin, making it easy for people to identify you as a newer player. To progress from blue ring to a red ring you have to complete the purchase of all your passive attributes. These attributes are shown as orange/yellow boxes on the main character tab. You'll need to reach rank 3 to be elligable to purchase all of your attributes. Once you have your red ring, you'll have your solid base, and the gameplay will start to take shape.

2.) Maps - Maps are used for travel/teleport purposes in the moors, and are obtained by completing quests for a specific keep or control point. The places you can attain maps for are Gramsfall, Lugazug, Tol Ascaren, Tirith Rhaw, Isendeep Mine and Grimwood Lumber Camp. Your faction must be in control of the control point to be able to turn in for progress on your maps. Having your maps done can be the deal breaker in alot of situations. Some examples would be; Having a small group use maps for a flank on the enemy, or mapping down to Lumber Camp for a clutch tyrant save.

3.) Lingo - There's alot of abbreviations used to describe points of interest and land marks. It helps to know what or where people are talking about. An example would be "freeps to stab from tr rez", stab refers to South Tol Ascaren Bridge and tr rez is the Graveyard at Tirith Rhaw. Take a moment to look over a map of the moors. A great one that covers the 'lingo' can be found over at The Black Appendage site.

4.) The Delving - The delving is where the barter items for the Gramsfoot vendors are obtained. Your side must control 2 of the 5 outposts to be able to access the delving. Things that can be purchased with the delving barter items include; The second ranks of your corruption traits. Racial traits (first at rank5). Brands (a CC immunity trinket). Potions, food, curatives, and defensive/resistance consumables. The creep entrance to the delving is just outside Dar Gazag.

5.) Communication - Enable your Voice Chat, even if you don't have or use a mic. It's very important that you able to hear what's going on.

Part II. Starting out and Grouping.

1.) Starting out - If you aren't playing smart, you're going to die alot. Be patient, think tactically. You're not rambo, you're a very squishy spider. Stay near objects like trees, rocks, broken walls, and be ready to get out of line of sight immediately when you start taking damage. Have an escape plan, or two. Don't go charging into the crowd, don't run out in the middle of the road. I was able to do a nice kill or two at very low rank by using Lie in Wait in the water near the stab, and waiting for a victim to jump off the bridge and try to make it back to the elf camp. Take a moment to look over the ranks. Your chances of killing an unranked/low rank are pretty good, if you choose your targets well. If you foolishly engage high ranked players you're going to be free infamy. Knowing what you're looking at can be the difference between life or death.

2.) Be a team player - It's going to be a few before your solo game starts to kick in. So join a small group or raid. Pay attention, follow directions, even if they don't seem to make sense just yet. If the raid lead says move, you move. There's a broad spectrum of characters that lead raids, some are more seasoned and disciplined than others. You can make a solid contribution to the group/raid setting at low rank by utilizing the few tools you have. If you show that you're capable of following directions, moving around efficiently, and staying on top of the assists and target switches, good leaders and players will notice and acknowledge you. You'll find yourself getting invites to the more organized groups and maybe even get a tribe invitation.

Part III. Weaving and you.

1.) A fly in your webs - A well placed cast of Snaring Web (30s Root) can go a long way. Used wisely it pretty much ensures a kill for your group/raid. It has a long range, and if you're on the ball, YOU the weaver can make the difference of whether or not your group gets to kill that lone rider on horseback or fleeing victim trying to make a run for it.

2.) Burrow tactics - There's a few things worth noting reguarding burrowing. The element of surprise is foremost, using a patient well-positioned Lie in Wait to suddenly spring out of nowhere can put the enemy on the defensive and buy you a moment to take action and gain the upper hand. You can use Lie in Wait if you're being tracked to elude your tracker. You can not be tracked while burrowed. Trapdoor Sanctuary is your survival tool. Using trapdoor will cause the enemy to momentarily lose their target on you, almost like a feign death effect. In a raid and group setting this can disrupt the enemy assist train and leave a few people standing around wondering if you're going to pop out fast or slow, mix it up, use your judgement. You can get away 99% of the time in the group/raid setting by learning to identify when you're being targeted, when to burrow, and when to un-burrow and head for a safe position. It's my personal habit to pop a stun immunity potion just before I hit burrow and it seems to greatly increase my chance of a sucsessful trapdoor. Once you hit rank 5 and get Web the Earth, you're going to really shine in the group setting, if you're able to get in, drop down a good web and get away clean.

3.) Debuffs - 30% slow goes a long way on a high ranked well geared melee. You'll often find them charging into the midst of your group/raid. Another is burglars appearing in the rear of your party and hassling the healers. Once a stack of debuffs and dots start showing up on their bar they'll react/think twice/hesitate/be hindered.

Part IV. Tips on DP purchase priorities and trait advice.

1.) Abilities - Buy the abilities available to you first. Every skill you get makes a difference.

2.) Base Attributes - Get these knocked out. Get your solid base/red ring as quickly as you can. Once it's done, it's done, and then you can focus on tweaking your class and corruption traits. Fiddling with your spec will happen alot as you continue to progress. You don't want to waste your points early on corruption traits that you may end up not using, for example.

3.) Class Traits - I reccomend grabbing class traits after finishing your base attributes, Armor and 10% HP are two good ones to start with. There isn't many to choose from at low rank, so you wont be facing alot of choices early on like you will with the corruption traits.

4.) Corruption Traits - This is where playstyle and personal preference comes into play. There are two weaver builds I have run so far. A survivability build that I initally used, Crit def/Physical def/Tactical res/Light mit/HP/Dmg. And the build that I still use now at rank5, Crit def/Dmg/Dmg/Dmg/Dmg/HP. My spec will undoubtedly change as my ability to solo increases and I learn more about PMVP in general.

I have had a blast in Monster play on my Weaver, and I hope this info helps a few of you new guys out

[Papillon]

Seriously if any dev's are looking at this thread please ignore the "specific player" bashing threads and look beyond that for the good suggestions.

my main suggestion is the recent changes to starter weavers are not good. Or specifically the removal or the trap door skill or long wait is a huge mistake.

fortunately I had created a weaver prior to the change so my skills were grand fathered...

New weavers are handicapped by this. Perhaps you say explain why? well what if you to say to hunters that they could not use their camouflage skill in the moors till they were rank6 or to Wardens they can't use thier stealth till rank6...

Instead the creeps got a few more initial skills but most got a nerf while all there freep opponents seemed to get damage boosts and certainly health boosts in the moors from legendaries...and gear. Its not uncommon to see guardians and captains and wardens with 8-10k health now in the moors, given the nil chance of survival for starting weavers let alone any other starting creep against this is farcical...

So when you consider future changes please look at what the updates have done to overpower yet again the freepside and stop looking at ways to nerf creeps because you gave them a few starting skills/traits which are meaningless in face of the other changes freepside...

[Hellsbane]

A couple of things i would like to see added to weavers " innate " skills is the ability to climb walls and a form of " safe fall " where instead of simply falling from a height and breaking a leg, they spin a web behind them and land safely. Of course, there would have to be limitations on these skills, but these particular skills would be reasonable and well within the lore and spiders in general for the weaver class overall.

[WulfiamKnightstar]

Tested the stealth detection trait a couple years ago. It's broken and does not work.

If a burg gets a stun from steath on a weaver they will win unless you run away or the burg isen't smart and hasen't kept you snared/stunlocked.

If a weaver starts attacking a burg from range then you have a fair chance of winning unless he just hips early on.

Either way fighting burgs solo is a pain and a waste of time if they start the fight with a 8 second stunlock.

[Eightleggedphreak]

Tested the stealth detection trait a couple years ago. It's broken and does not work.

If a burg gets a stun from steath on a weaver they will win unless you run away or the burg isen't smart and hasen't kept you snared/stunlocked.

If a weaver starts attacking a burg from range then you have a fair chance of winning unless he just hips early on.

Either way fighting burgs solo is a pain and a waste of time if they start the fight with a 8 second stunlock.

It's called stun pots. Burgs aren't too bad to take down solo.

[LegOverLass]

The burgs on your server must suck.

Its also amazing that you are here sprouting #### about killing burgs and you dont even have snitch killer in your sig. After all you seem to have the epeen thing off to a tee with everything else on your sig.

Sorry I call BS.

[HaldamirTinuviel]

Tested the stealth detection trait a couple years ago. It's broken and does not work.

This is incorrect, it does work.

[Eightleggedphreak]

The burgs on your server must suck.

Its also amazing that you are here sprouting #### about killing burgs and you dont even have snitch killer in your sig. After all you seem to have the epeen thing off to a tee with everything else on your sig.

Sorry I call BS.

Yeah, the burgs on my server do suck. Then again, the majority of players on my server, not to mention this game, suck. And it's hard to get snitch killer when the only burgs that have been out lately have been in packs of 3 or more, and I'm almost always solo. 35 away from snitch-killer.

[Moejo]

Run with a spider group, if there's a few WL's or defiler's in your group all the better. DoT up the raid assists target, root/stun/slow what you're told to and rake in the infamy. You will die. A lot. Make peace with that fact, rez, get back in the battle. Spiders are fun to play, if a little on the squishy side. Seeing 24 DoT's on a single freep and knowing one of them is yours, that freep is going to die, and you are going to get infamy is very satisfying.

[Stevo6]

Scenario
4 reavers + WL + Weaver (you)
VS
4 champs + Cappy.

While the fact that these champs are all benifiting from easier crits and higher morale, they still are a lot more deadly with these cappy buffs. However, you can be a pain to the captain. First of all, power drain, try to turn off auto attack. Use your rank 6 mez, and if he pots out of that then wait until the immunity goes, and get him with Smothering web. Use the +30% attack duration debuff on the cappy, I think that will make his heals go slower.

Now, these champs are either going to go for you or the WL. If they go for you, use Web the earth, try and kite as much as possible. While these may not be the best tips, this is what I would do.

[Cembrye]

I would endorse the comments above on the real strength of the weaver being team player. I would reiterate this advice to new weavers:

1. Group up and then use your web to restrict the movement of vulnerable Free Peoples. You are not the greatest DPS out there but you can raise the chances of other Creeps making the kill and you should get your share of infamy when that happens. I have found that judicious spider team play helps especially when the enemy starts to retreat - you can ensure 3 or 4 that would have escaped never make it.

2. Initially stay at range. There will be times you will want to charge into the thick of things to get a Latent Poison bite off or lay down a Web the Earth into the middle of the enemy raid. Or if in small group or solo combat and you need to close the distance with an enemy ranged class like a hunter. But otherwise, you should remember that you are primarily useful early on in helping other Creeps make kills and you cannot do that if you are dead yourself.

3. As you rank, better CC will become available and you can begin to solo easier. However, even for a ranked spider you still are most valuable helping others make more kills. You will find your options increasingly dramatically once you get ranged daze.

4. Keep hatchling on passive; once you get devour it becomes a heal for you; you don't want the hatchling getting dragged into enemy NPC and bringing their wrath on you; you also want the hatchling attacking specific high value targets like enemy healers instead of randomly attacking that guardian. Keeping hatchling on passive goes double when attacking enemy keeps

5. Use trapdoor creatively. Often you can get an enemy group to wait patiently for the full minute over your burrow, while all the time you are vectoring the Creep raid onto them. Many is the time I have had Freeps jumping excitedly over my burrow only to see them get crushed by the arriving Creep raid, at which point I emerge to reap the infamy from the slaughter. You can also have an enemy chase you into a swarm of neutral NPC like the dog packs, then burrow and watch the dogs all target the Freep.

[TizianEnel]

24/09/2010

Over the next few weeks we will be focusing on the classes in our Tell the Community Team threads. In keeping with that theme, we want your help. If you could give one tip to a new player about playing a Weaver, what would it be?

I wonder if this is still an important post?

Or any of the other posts stickied at the top of our pvmp forum, for that matter. This one isn't even the oldest, not even close..
The Monster Roles sticky was made back when Defilers didn't exist.

[Rainyman]

Made some updates to my section of the guide on BAoS: http://www.theblackappendage.com/book/weaver (starts around the lower half of the page).

[Blindings]

Great tip just dont play 1, go swtor and play bob, hes a good m8 of mine

[Rainyman]

http://www.theblackappendage.com/book/weaver

One more edit, cleaned up some of the specific class strats over the holidays. Will be leaving to SWTOR so please feel free to update it if you are inclined.

From my experience this book, ranked weavers have good chances against classes other than the RK and minstrel. Nevertheless, we are slow at killing and the probability of being interrupted is quite high, so I don't recommend engaging skilled opponents while roaming solo. I generally got my 1v1 fix at random sparring circles. It has also been fairly early in update 5, so I'm only aware of fighting one hunter with a first age weapon.

[Rainyman]

http://www.theblackappendage.com/book/weaver

A few more updates to the 1v1 guide, added a RvR section, and a blurb about traits at the bottom.

[aklouie]

Awesome thanks!!!!!!!!!

[Rainyman]

Ranked weavers vs. burglars:

I've messed around with my burglar strategy quite a bit. As of late, because my build is primarily stacked for tactical defense, it could be a combination of lower physical mitigation and crit defense that makes burglar fights extremely difficult. Regardless, their burst damage and escape skills stack the deck heavily towards the burg, particularly one that has learned your tricks.

The one conclusion I've come to however is that the only "correct" response to a riddle from stealth is to pop your Akulhun potion (10s CC immunity, 1m slow immunity) or your brand. Anything less than that or a WL bubble will end with a short trip to the rez circle for you. Next is to get distance with Shadow Bite or WtE if it fails. Save the wound pot for after your CC immunity wears off to try to delay a Twist. It's important to be aware of how many DR stacks are accumulating on the burg, because your fears will actually be useless by the fourth or fifth CC usage.

My past strategy was to go for a knockdown early to try to get the burg to burn Find Footing. Problems crop up though: you add one more stack to DR and the FF evade makes Shadow Bite even more unreliable, especially if he goes for an offensive HiPS to break WtE. The evade, lack of WtE cooldown, and from-stealth burst will force you into your burrow before you can deal sufficient damage.

Against a burg that's willing to burn cooldowns on you and knows their stuff, you will absolutely have to go into Trapdoor. Also, it's absolutely vital that you keep the burglar in combat while you are in Trapdoor. If he eats food, you simply won't have enough DPS without your morale pot, stun pot, and hatchling to take him down from full a second time around. My goal is to take the burglar below 50% before going into Trapdoor, otherwise the deficit will require you to pop immediately after dropping combat to brand/immunity pot. Keep your hatchling alive and fighting while in your burrow: don't sacrifice it for the heal. This buys you time in your burrow and may critically drain his power for the second round.

Beyond this, the situation is too variable to predict. The burglar may still have escape skills and come back to kill you while your cooldowns are out, so if you lose him, get your hatchling out and go into long burrow ASAP.

[spockerized]

Best tip for a weaver:Re-roll nothing but renown nodes.