Originally Posted by
ForTheGamer
[...] because I figured maybe I was out of touch with the class the way I was thinking things up.
I think you kind of are.
You seem to assume that "getting all gambit buffs up" is the problem with wardens. It isn't. Even with all gambit buffs for free, wardens are not competetive (as higher-tier tanks, that is).
You also seem to assume that people want to run through gambit chains in order. They don't. You weave different gambits together to make efficient use of masteries, or you use gambits without bothering with chains. For example, you would go Persevere > Safeguard > wait a bit for masteries > Celebration of Skill. And while you're waiting, you would just hit, say, Surety of Death directly, without bothering with the chain. Because chains are pretty unimportant. For the most part, Perservere > Safeguard is worth using, and perhaps Flourish > Maddening, but that is mainly because those gambits are individually worth using (and roughly equally powerful), because there is little else to do, and because warden tanks are so weak that they need every little bonus. If you have a little more breathing room (or a little less time), you don't hit any chains.
You also seem to assume that people want their gambits to roll out with as little effort as possible. They don't. Gambits are supposed to be somewhat slow to build. Masteries reduce the time it takes to build gambits, but they also have a cooldown. You have to use them on the right gambits—where they'll have the most impact—but you also can't save them too long, or you'll waste uses. In other words: masteries are a resource, and managing that resource is the core of the gambit system. Removing masteries from the warden is like removing wrath from the beorning: it guts the class and makes it pointless.
Gambits are balanced around the idea that they (a) slow to build, (b) have no cooldown, (c) are individually powerful, (d) offer benefits over time, and (e) do not stack with themselves*. For example, Desolation has very high total base damage and no cooldown, but since it doesn't stack with itself, it has an effective cooldown of 28 seconds. That cooldown forces you to use other damaging skills, which have lower base damage totals.
A warden can lean into a role by spending more and more gambits in that direction, each with further diminishing returns. Do you want to do "a bit" of damage? You can do that very efficiently with just one Desolation (or Unerring Strike, or Resounding Challenge) every ~30 seconds or so. Do you want to do "a bit" of healing? One Restoration per 20 seconds is (well, used to be) efficient. Do you want to do more? Add the next most powerful gambit(s) until you have enough. What do chains do? Chains provide a small reward for building gambits in the wrong order (i.e. smallest one first).
Following this logic gets you the warden DPS rotation: use the largest number of the most powerful gambits, as limited by time and mastery cooldowns. Chains don't enter into it, because chains don't boost damage**, and because they require inefficient gambits***.
When tanking, chains do matter, for one good reason—the chain actually boosts defence—and one not-so-great reason: buffs last much longer than bleeds, but there aren't that many more to use, leaving a warden tank with very little to do besides chasing minor block/incoming healing bonuses.
In situations where you are trying to combine damage and defence, you simply hit the biggest gambits in each category.
The gambit system is what allows the warden to trade one "cooldown" for another, to sacrifice everything at the altar of doing just one thing, or to do multiple things more efficiently. This is what drives the warden's ability to solo, and the ability to do some damage while tanking (both much reduced today). The execution isn't always great, as we see with the current state of tanking, but it is a very good concept that should be expanded, not removed.
*Not all gambits have all of these properties, but they generally ought to have them, and most do, especially the good ones.
**Power Attack and Mighty Blow do increase the damage of Mighty Blow and Unerring Strike respectively. That's different from a chain, because you can get the PA > MB benefit separately from the MB > US benefit, making it much easier to use; you're not forced to use a weak gambit like War-Cry early in your rotation. On top of that, Mighty Blow is a reasonably fast gambit that sets up Quick Sweep.
***That is, War-Cry. The Precise Blow line doesn't have a chain, but if it had one (similar in power to other chains), it would't be worth using. The other chains don't involve DPS gambits.
Last edited by Sindhol; Nov 28 2022 at 04:51 AM.
Andhilin, Ifeyina, Iondhilin, wardens of Gondolin -- Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit into Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day.