Things Seem to be Getting out of Hand

[Zeowyrm]

Had my first real incident since I started playing. Had to use a dictionary and apparently the word is insulting the target as a gay male.

Pretty funny given that I played a woman character. Except not funny. I don't pay my subscription to then have this happen to me at the hands of those who don't pay.

Did you /report him?

[sirwillow]

Had my first real incident since I started playing. Had to use a dictionary and apparently the word is insulting the target as a gay male.

Pretty funny given that I played a woman character. Except not funny. I don't pay my subscription to then have this happen to me at the hands of those who don't pay.

You're right, you don't. That's why Turbine gave you tools to /report them (or open up a new help ticket and report them that way) and then to /ignore them. You have tools at your disposal. Use them.

Now if you're unwilling to /report and /ignore someone that's doing that to you, then that's not Turbine's fault. It's yours.

edit- and how do you know they aren't paying? How are you sure they are on a f2p account? Did they say so? And why is that relevant? People that pay abuse others as well.

[Darmokk]

I don't think Turbine in it's current shape is worth sending any kind of bug or people reports to. Did anybody actually have success with that? Oh that's right you can't tell since they will never give you any kind of feedback on your report, bug or otherwise.

I figured it's a f2p based on quest location, level of the person, gear and general behavior before the incident. I realize that isn't scientific but that's not the point.

The point is that before f2p I never had this happen, now I do. And I don't see why Turbine wouldn't autoreport people to themselves based on word filters spoken to -say- people who aren't in your fellowship or kinship.

[Zeowyrm]

I don't think Turbine in it's current shape is worth sending any kind of bug or people reports to. Did anybody actually have success with that? Oh that's right you can't tell since they will never give you any kind of feedback on your report, bug or otherwise.

I figured it's a f2p based on quest location, level of the person, gear and general behavior before the incident. I realize that isn't scientific but that's not the point.

The point is that before f2p I never had this happen, now I do. And I don't see why Turbine wouldn't autoreport people to themselves based on word filters spoken to -say- people who aren't in your fellowship or kinship.

Point is, you don't /report, you are part of the problem. You want to know why you didn't see as much talk like this before? Because when the community got going, people diligently reported offenders, to the point where they just stopped, with the exception of the lone one here and there. If you can't be bothered to use the tools, then we can't be bothered to take you seriously.

[Palenen]

just another meaningless opinion...

I REALLY wish they would have NOT gone with chat channels. This discussion came about well before any ALPHA stage of testing. To mimic real life in a world massively multi-played by many, I am sorry. There is no such thing as a world wide chat channel. Hmm, I don't think Middle-Earth has a world wide chat channel.

IVE GOT IT!! THE FIX AND WORK AROUND!! Enable the Palantiri's to where players have to travel to a Palantir to talk to the other side of the world! NOW THAT"S TRUE TO LORE!

We have custom channels anyways. GLFF is even worse now as well. Disable OOC, ADVICE, REGIONAL, LFF, etc. and keep with /say and /shout and /yell. More over if not custom channels, there is VOICE! The public need not have to watch adolescent behaviour (<-- with a 'u')

[Darmokk]

Point is, you don't /report, you are part of the problem. You want to know why you didn't see as much talk like this before? Because when the community got going, people diligently reported offenders, to the point where they just stopped, with the exception of the lone one here and there. If you can't be bothered to use the tools, then we can't be bothered to take you seriously.

At the time there was a Turbine much more in touch with the players. The reason why I didn't use /report on the guy isn't that I am generally too lazy. I would have in February 2010 before all this dirt that came up (let's leave aside I didn't have to). I don't in October 2010.

And I also think that if Turbine wants to invite what they said is "millions" of people to play for free, basically payed for by us VIPs, that they should have prepared to step up automatic measures. I shouldn't have to look up slur words in a dictionary (not a native speaker) and then /report. Things like this could easily auto-report.

Last but not least I don't spend the time to write reports, for anything, if the receiver is a black hole that never gives you feedback. This is the case for all of Turbine's reporting, people, bugs, billing, everything. And that's just in case you can find the right one of their -what- 7 different support departments which don't talk to each other and have no means of reassigning tickets. (the latter isn't an issue for /report, of course)

[Zeowyrm]

. . .The reason why I didn't use /report on the guy isn't that I am generally too lazy. . .

If you do not /report, you are part of the problem.

[Bradd]

Now if you're unwilling to /report and /ignore someone that's doing that to you, then that's not Turbine's fault. It's yours.

Philosophically, I disagree.

Lets say I live in the city, and I am assaulted. Further, lets say I do not call the police because in the past they never patrol my neighborhood, never treat assults in my neighbor seriously, and/or because I am afraid of retribution. Do you feel it is my fault if it happens again?

The true fault lies in the perpetrator. The police have a responsibility to patrol, and I have a responsibility to report the crime - but the ultimate responsibility is on the perpetrator.

Likewise, I feel the people most at fault are the immature, disruptive players. There is secondary fault with Turbine for not adequately patroling when they knew this would happen, and secondary responsibility for players who do not report.

[Zeowyrm]

Philosophically, I disagree.

Lets say I live in the cty, and I am assaulted by a neighbor. Further, lets say I do not call the police because in the past they never patrrol my neighborhood, never treat assults in my neighbor seriously, and/or because I am afraid of retribution. Do you feel it is my fault if it happens again?

The true fault lies in the perpetrators. The police have a responsibility to patrol, and I have a responsibility to report the crime - but the ultimate responsibility is on the perpetrator.

Likewise, I feel the people most at fault are the immature, disruptive players. There is secondary fault with Turbine for not adequately patroling when they knew this would happen, and secondary responsibility for players who do not report.

If you choose to continue to be the victim through inaction, as is the case in your example, then you are at fault.

[Laire]

At the time there was a Turbine much more in touch with the players. The reason why I didn't use /report on the guy isn't that I am generally too lazy. I would have in February 2010 before all this dirt that came up (let's leave aside I didn't have to). I don't in October 2010.

And I also think that if Turbine wants to invite what they said is "millions" of people to play for free, basically payed for by us VIPs, that they should have prepared to step up automatic measures. I shouldn't have to look up slur words in a dictionary (not a native speaker) and then /report. Things like this could easily auto-report.

Last but not least I don't spend the time to write reports, for anything, if the receiver is a black hole that never gives you feedback. This is the case for all of Turbine's reporting, people, bugs, billing, everything. And that's just in case you can find the right one of their -what- 7 different support departments which don't talk to each other and have no means of reassigning tickets. (the latter isn't an issue for /report, of course)

You don't use the tools to report horrible players and then expect something to be done about it?

Mind-boggling logic.

[Darmokk]

You don't use the tools to report horrible players and then expect something to be done about it?

Mind-boggling logic.

How do you know they do something with your reports?

They don't give feedback of any kind and they are completely understaffed.

[Bradd]

I am trying to remember ... in WoW, I believe that once you reported someone, the chat channel was saved and sent to the GM for later review. Is that the case here? If not, that would make things much easier since they would not have to catch people in the act, merely review the saved chat information later.

Also, I think they need to make reporting disruptive behavior as easy as reporting gold spammers.

[Zeowyrm]

How do you know they do something with your reports?

They don't give feedback of any kind and they are completely understaffed.

How do you know they don't? They don't give feedback of any kind, so how do you know they're understaffed?

Don't make excuses for your laziness.

[Zeowyrm]

I am trying to remember ... in WoW, I believe that once you reported someone, the chat channel was save and sent to the GM for later review. Is that the case here? If not, that would make things much easier since they would not have to catch people in the act, merely review the saved chat information later.

Also, I think they need to make reporting disruptive behavior as easy as reporting gold spammers.

Agreed, this would help alleviate the problem. A simple /report option like the /report gold spammer option would be wonderful, and might even get people to use the tools.

[Gothfather]

The point is not the kids...the kids sparked this post--when I was horrified that they were watching this game unsupervised. The point of the kids is that chat in this game has gotten so foul that one must turn the game off for fear that a minor will see what is going on in the game.

From my perspective that is a bad thing....perhaps I am wrong here.

And think about that....think about what it means....that regular people cannot play this game without being assaulted with every vulgarity known to man.

I feel, despite what folks may say, that things have gotten out of hand.

You are free to disagree, however. And If you disagree that is you opinion, just as good as mine.

This is just my observation.

You are lying to yourself. I remember what it was like when i was in grade 3 and up. We kids swore so bad we could make a sailor blush. and that was over 30 years ago that i was your grandsons age. i know for a fact i swore and i swore often when no adults were in ear shot. Your grandson is almost 100% likely to have used such words himself.

Fact is you exposed your grandchildren to a game that you shouldn't have exposed them to period. Games have rating for a REASON. Why are you blaming the users of the chat for expecting that parents and grandparents actually be adults and make sure their children are actually supervised and two not being exposed to a game they are too young for.

You made the choice to expose your grandson to this game which CLEARLY states he is not rated for, years ago now you are upset that he is exposed to elements in the game he is too young for, how is that fair to the other users in the community or turbine?

You are the person to blame for this situation no one else. Stop looking for the "nanny state" to protect children when you were already given the tools to make an informed decision. You made the choice and now you are upset at everyone else but yourself for making the wrong choice?

[Bradd]

I remember what it was like when i was in grade 3 and up. We kids swore so bad we could make a sailor blush.

While I agree that a lot of kids swear, I think that is the point. I left middle school a long time ago. I do not want to play a game where the chat channels resemble a middle school looker room. Most of us want to maintain a reasonably mature, respectful community.

[Jesenne]

How do you know they do something with your reports?

They don't give feedback of any kind and they are completely understaffed.

How do you know they don't? They don't give feedback of any kind, so how do you know they're understaffed?

Guys - we get the reports. We don't tell you what we do with them, because once we acknowledge your report (we leave a note on it for you!), the rest is really only the business of the person you reported.

It's basically like if you bring a person to the hospital, you know something is wrong - but since you're not the patient, we can't tell you exactly what the diagnosis is. Privacy, and all that...

I am trying to remember ... in WoW, I believe that once you reported someone, the chat channel was saved and sent to the GM for later review. Is that the case here?

Yes.

[Bradd]

Guys - we get the reports. We don't tell you what we do with them, because once we acknowledge your report (we leave a note on it for you!), the rest is really only the business of the person you reported.

Is there any way to make reporting disruptive behavior similiar to reporting gold spammers? That would probably encourage more people to report the bad behavior.

[Jesenne]

Is there any way to make reporting disruptive behavior similiar to reporting gold spammers? That would probably encourage more people to report the bad behavior.

Anything is possible... /chuckle

[Ayrolen]

Ooh, a Senior GM sighting! Said hi to Nod for me.

[cipher_nemo]

Is there any way to make reporting disruptive behavior similiar to reporting gold spammers? That would probably encourage more people to report the bad behavior.

In doing so they would have more work for what is probably already overworked GMs. The system in-place is fine, because if the public chat degrades into something seriously offensive then the person reporting the problem will take the time to go through the ticket process. This is one way to ensure every single swear word slip or mildly offensive comment isn't reported. The reporting system is there for repeat/rampant harassment issues, not one-time slips/offenses.

[sirwillow]

Ok, at the risk of getting myself slammed on my home server I'm going to open up a little bit. No names to protect the guilty other than my own.

In the last week I have /reported 4 people (Two of which happened to be vets, but really that's irrelevant to the over all point) for abusive language. Cursing up a blue streak, attacking and flaming other players, and the like. I reported them after they had been politely asked to stop and politely reminded of Turbine's rules/ code of conduct for the chat channels by me and/or others. In each case not only did they ignore the warning but went out of their way to show that they flagrantly didn't care. Obvious violations.

So I filled out the report, gave the names of the guilty parties, quoted what they said and said what they were doing. Just like I and others on this thread have said you should do. Just like the ones that claim Turbine does nothing is a waste of time. So what did Turbine do?

In each case I had a GM close my ticket with a generic note saying that they were looking into the problem, thanks for my report, and that they can not go into details on what was done. Fully expected. If you expect any more specific personal attention than that, then you're expecting to much.

However, additionally, in all 4 cases within a few minutes after I received that message, the ones that I reported mysteriously grew very quiet. In fact, not just quite but outright silent. The two I checked and tried to inspect were no longer able to be inspected. What was quite funny was the most dramatic, loudmouthed one who was bragging that he didn't care about rules and no one was going to make him shut up or talk any different was apparently not aware of how to reply to a GM as they were apparently talking to them on the ooc channel as they were told of their infraction then removed.

In all 4 cases, less than 10-15 minutes after reported, the GM's had dealt with them and removed the problem. So yes, /report does work. You just have to be bothered to use it.

[Darmokk]

All right, that's better. All I wanted is some confidence that this is handled better than the usual maze of different support organizations that will end up doing nothing. Thank you (honestly) for the report.

I should point out, though, that my incident didn't involve a chat channel, it was a line dropped right into the chat interface so that the text appears as a banner. I'm not sure that gets reported along.

[Laire]

Guys - we get the reports. We don't tell you what we do with them, because once we acknowledge your report (we leave a note on it for you!), the rest is really only the business of the person you reported.

It's basically like if you bring a person to the hospital, you know something is wrong - but since you're not the patient, we can't tell you exactly what the diagnosis is. Privacy, and all that...


Yes.

A GM! Hi! /wave

Thank you very much about your confirmation, I appreciate it.

[Ayrolen]

FYI: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...When-to-Ignore

So can we end this thread now?