When to expect Update 12.1?

[doug01]

etc. etc.

1. After playing both sides, I'm not sure that the 55k is enough. What I have seen is the universally acclaimed lamest of the of the classes, the Minstrel, does a consistent 10-11k dps. Thats without the ubercool jewelry or second age weaponry. (Honestly, Im just using my level 85 second age moors mace. Its not even a 95). That running the pure red skill tree.

Umm, I'm gunna call BS on that one. 10-11k damage per second? LOL, not even remotely. I doubt very much a mini could do 1/3 that amount of DPS verses a creep (or a 1/5 of that if the creep has the audacity bug).

Realistically, the was required for Helms Deep. Look at Glittering Caves (easiest of the big battles). Seven waves of 13k Uruk decimated as fast as they get in range. I cant imagine how fast the mini/champ goes thorough that as a duo. Look at catapult damage on the Deeping Wall battle. At 5-6k the freep just explodes into dust, so Turbine had to up the morale to the 11-12k range so you can get a heal. The 55k creep in the moors is balanced against that number and the 5k aoe hits the freeps have now.

Obviously you have not played the BBs at level cap or you're horrible. Either way they are very doable at 3-4k DPS. You may not plat, but golds are very doable.

3. Missing lvl 95 armor and weapons is balanced by the missing new season of audacity for the creeps. Wheres the next 7 levels of audacity? This was a season end according to the last posts on seasons that I saw. I cant imagine the diminishing returns from the extra 6 corruption slots is really that effective.

WUT? Without the audacity bug creeps can still attain the full advantage of audacity (as can freeps, but they need to use under leveled gear to do so) In other words nothing hurting creeps right now, but freeps are gimped. Once you get the next 7 levels of audacity you'll need to work to get to where you are now and gain NOTHING else. LOL


I can possibly see large group fights being some what interesting with the level of broken healing freeps can get coupled with the poor healing output creeps have now, but small group fights and soloers...If you're a creep and you're having "good" fights in 1v1s/small groups you are bad.

[Blackheart-Fury]

even with the loss of stun immune on freepside and the addition of wl bubbles with 1m cd? Those seem like staples on both sides that could definitely cause problems for freeps raids.

WL bubble still has a 2 min cd. Its the WL rez(traited) that has a 1 min cd. As for stun immune , its still there but waaayy less potent than it was (20 sec duration/18 second cd currently) which is ofc a plus for Creepside.

[Armdyl]

^^ That is what I'd like to see. Creep healing needs some serious scaling. While creeps have extremely large morale pools now, the healing isn't there to maintain them in RvR or group battles, and freep healing got a HUGE boost. Freeps also got huge increases to their DPS with the update, but most creeps saw their morale pools double or triple. We'll see if these increases turn out to be pretty much offsetting.

The 62% audacity bug, the lack of mitigations to the new creep damage types, and freep audacity gear that is 10 lvls outdated has made it pretty ez-mode on creepside since the update. I think most creeps would admit that. I'm hoping that Turbine's 12.1 changes here don't tip the balance so drastically as to make things ez-mode the other way, though.

yeah your very correct on that one. my stats drop a lot when I put my 85 moors gear on. and with that 62% audacity combined with the incredible dps they have it makes them even more OP then freeps have ever been. an example is last night me(LM) a high ranked Mini and a captain couldn't kill 1 reaver..he 3v1ed us and almost managed to kill the mini using his basically cheating orc craft damage and his more tankier than ever bugged audacity. people are saying that freeps should be fine in 85 gear at 95..i think not as there was a HUGE stat jump from 85-95 and we have to basically gimp ourselves to get 30% audacity while creeps get unmitigatible damage which makes them able to kill squishies with just a few hits and their 62% audacity...I can barely hit 2k with my attacks on creeps with 60k+ morale thanks to that audacity bug. the creeps can have their fun for now but once freeps actually get scaled audacity gear and creeps have 30% audacity and that damage type gets put on mitigation table its a different story. altho I do hope they scale creeps healing.

[poxnoxious]

Awww, that hurts

No need to take it personal mate, exaggeration and generalization was applied plentiful in that post. Although I stand by the essence, I am aware that not all freeps are oblivious to how biased pvmp, generally, is towards freeps. Nor am I oblivious to the fact some freeps actually have a spine, there's just too damn few of you.

Since I've started already I may as well finish it: I'm well puzzled by seeing freeps suddenly reluctant to group up now where it is needed, whereas when it wasn't it seemed not a problem. As a soloer I can relate to the queasy feeling it could provoke by being forced to move around in a blob, but seeing how people already did that Pre-HD I don't really see the problem.

[mrfigglesworth]

WL bubble still has a 2 min cd. Its the WL rez(traited) that has a 1 min cd. As for stun immune , its still there but waaayy less potent than it was (20 sec duration/18 second cd currently) which is ofc a plus for Creepside.

Ouch. Sounds like that 1 minute rez is just going to be beneficial to freep groups for more bodies to grind to dust soon .

It seems so simple to me though. Cut out a lot of healing, allow both sides to get kills, and people stick around because they're getting points even when they're not really winning. instead, we always have "we can't die" brigades running around.

[Snowlock]

Cut out a lot of healing, allow both sides to get kills, and people stick around because they're getting points even when they're not really winning.

That's farming. Unintentionally, but still just points for points sake. Farming. Everything in this game is so dumbed down, does this after-thought side game have to be too?

Apologies if it were sarcasm.

[Thorandril]

That's farming. Unintentionally, but still just points for points sake. Farming. Everything in this game is so dumbed down, does this after-thought side game have to be too?

Apologies if it were sarcasm.

Or PvP-ing if you choose not to have ridiculously conservative views on a video game. I mean the argument can be made more convincing that RvR has entirely made rank a meaningless goal, after all the updates post RoR, even so after PvE renown/infamy.

an example is last night me(LM) a high ranked Mini and a captain couldn't kill 1 reaver

not to underplay current balance issues but it sounds likely that you were all in the wrong spec, captains really shouldn't be dying at all to be honest. and minstrels are capable of 30s flop, with a 30s CD.

[Snowlock]

Or PvP-ing if you choose not to have ridiculously conservative views on a video game.

Meh. And you can tell your buddies you had sex when in reality you just accomplished the goal yourself.

I mean the argument can be made more convincing that RvR has entirely made rank a meaningless goal, after all the updates post RoR, even so after PvE renown/infamy.

It has.

[Snowlock]

And this is complete and absolute dumbing down of the other person's words to simply make your argument and playstyle seem legitimate. that's pathetic.

Pfft you advocate points without wins. That's farming.

[mrfigglesworth]

Pfft you advocate points without wins. That's farming.

Please, oh wise snowlock, tell us what "win" means? Being a freep is generally the answer.

I advocate a growing pvp environment by cutting down on the magnitude of heals, especially on freepside, which in turn would increase kills on both sides. If they don't decrease the effect heals have on rvr outcomes, at least increase the opportunity to counter it by -incoming healing. This would satisfy even your ego hopefully so that people would actually have to mash different buttons aside from their normal red and green ones to feel like they "win" on freepside.

[Snowlock]

Hmmm sarcasm. No idea who you are bud but I can tell you that the players that would get a rise out of me left this game long ago. So if you want to have a legit discussion on pvp theory I'm definitely down. If you expect to tangle you're in for disappointment. I'm not interested

[doug01]

Pfft you advocate points without wins. That's farming.

LOL@U, You've said this twice and its a ridiculous concept...Both times. You've taken a statement, added your own words to it and ignored the point of the original statement. Like it or not, players tend to keep playing when they are getting kills (points) even if they don't necessary win the fight. "Farming" is in essence when one side is getting kills and the other has no chance to AND doesn't even try to avoid dying . The two ideas aren't even remotely the same.

Two raids run into each other and one side loses, but manages to kill all but 2-3 of the opposite side, that is getting kills (points) without "winning". That kind of PvP also keeps people coming back regardless of what side they are on and regardless of whether or not they "win". I assure you the vast majority of PVP'ers care less about winning a fight over having a "good" fight.

IOW:
If no one is dying...Players log.
If only one side is dying....players log
If both sides are dying...fights go on for hours.

^^^Notice "winning" isn't mentioned^^^

[Snowlock]

LOL@U, You've said this twice and its a ridiculous concept...Both times. You've taken a statement, added your own words to it and ignored the point of the original statement. Like it or not, players tend to keep playing when they are getting kills (points) even if they don't necessary win the fight. "Farming" is in essence when one side is getting kills and the other has no chance to AND doesn't even try to avoid dying . The two ideas aren't even remotely the same.

How is it not farming? Killing over and over again to get points to gain rank is farming. It's not the illegal kind, but it's still points for the same of points. I'm not saying the player is bad or wrong for playing that way because that's the way the game is designed now. I just think we've removed too much complexity as it is and want to see it go back the other way

@mrfigglesworth I'm not trolling you, I'm sorry my response got you so angry, it wasn't my intention. You can keep being mad and hurling insults and even go gif'ing at me like a boss, but it won't change the fact that The disconnect I feel toward the current state of this game prevents me from worrying about some dude's personal grudges. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, so if you'd like to go back on topic without the inflammatory rhetoric we certainly can

[mrfigglesworth]

@mrfigglesworth I'm not trolling you, I'm sorry my response got you so angry, it wasn't my intention. You can keep being mad and hurling insults and even go gif'ing at me like a boss, but it won't change the fact that The disconnect I feel toward the current state of this game prevents me from worrying about some dude's personal grudges. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, so if you'd like to go back on topic without the inflammatory rhetoric we certainly can

I still haven't received any topic from you unfortunately, other than you believing that if the developers reduce the power of healing in the moors we're all farmers. I just don't know how to debunk that since it seems so obvious to me it isn't. How about, instead of using a word as inflammatory as "farming" you describe in detail what kind of an issue you have with your opponent receiving points even if you wipe and dominate them?

[Armdyl]

Even with the bugged audacity on creepside(62% dmg reduction), bugged dmg (fell wrought,orc craft. freeps have no mits to it) and the fact that freeps have no aud gear , freeps are still holding their own especially from a grp standpoint. Once this update goes through, Freeps will be gods. Count on it.


Btw, if you cant beat any creeps on your warden right now ,esp w/ the unmitigated bleeds, you might wanna reevaluate something....

yeah its really stupid how certain classes (LM and others) cant go toe to toe with the damage type get killed instantly with stupid crits let alone they have 50k+ morale with 62% audacity which makes hits like a little girl. the only way to pvp freepside atm is grouping. soloing is impossible for almost every class.

[Nouri]

If no one is dying...Players log.
If only one side is dying....players log
If both sides are dying...fights go on for hours.

^^^Notice "winning" isn't mentioned^^^

^^ Well put!

[Snowlock]

@mrfigglesworth

The topic to me is this desire on the part of the community for lack of complexity for the sake of expediency. To your point specifically, healing to kill faster to get points faster. I am more concerned with the quality of the fight than I am about points from it; always have been.

[doug01]

How is it not farming? Killing over and over again to get points to gain rank is farming. It's not the illegal kind, but it's still points for the same of points. I'm not saying the player is bad or wrong for playing that way because that's the way the game is designed now. I just think we've removed too much complexity as it is and want to see it go back the other way

@mrfigglesworth I'm not trolling you, I'm sorry my response got you so angry, it wasn't my intention. You can keep being mad and hurling insults and even go gif'ing at me like a boss, but it won't change the fact that The disconnect I feel toward the current state of this game prevents me from worrying about some dude's personal grudges. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, so if you'd like to go back on topic without the inflammatory rhetoric we certainly can

"Farming" has nothing to do with motive, and has everything do do with the means. Whether I "PvP" to kill the opposition, to find more challenging content, to play with friends, to gain rank, to accumulate points, get titles, finish deeds, etc I'm still PvPing and my opponent is still trying to survive/kill me....My motive or reason to be in the moors is irrelevant to the ACT of farming. The same is true for farming. Farming is farming your motive for doing so is irrelevant. If my opponent isn't trying to survive/kill me it's farming.

[Snowlock]

"Farming" has nothing to do with motive, and has everything do do with the means. Whether I "PvP" to kill the opposition, to find more challenging content, to play with friends, to gain rank, to accumulate points, get titles, finish deeds, etc I'm still PvPing and my opponent is still trying to survive/win....My motive or reason to be in the moors is irrelevant to the ACT of farming. The same is true for farming. Farming is farming your motive for doing so is irrelevant.

We don't disagree really. How bout if I simply had said "I don't want to see healing marginalized just to make killing easier to make point acquisition easier because that has all the complexity and entertainment value of farming"

?

[TheMustelidian]

I am expecting a happy bundle of kittens, and a wall hanger to hang my maroon tie collection.

[LEGENDofALL]

Almost everything will need an increase in order for Creeps to have a chance after this update , otherwise Freep raids will be invincible...

Youre a beast you dont need anything more Ridduk

Love as always

ME

[Sapience]

I am expecting a happy bundle of kittens, and a wall hanger to hang my maroon tie collection.

Wow, you're going to be completely disappointed.

12.1 is now live on Bullroarer and the preliminary release notes are up: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...JECT-TO-CHANGE

[Daec]

Wow, you're going to be completely disappointed.

12.1 is now live on Bullroarer and the preliminary release notes are up: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...JECT-TO-CHANGE

No word on the orc-craft and fell-wrought damage types not being mitigated?

[Crell_1]

No word on the orc-craft and fell-wrought damage types not being mitigated?

Feel free to login and check. The patch notes are by no means exhaustive. Often we find things that are not in the notes.
(It should allow anyone who was in the recent Helms Deep Beta to login at the moment. Presumably, they'll open it up the rest of the way soon!)

[Nouri]

Perhaps I missed it, but I have not seen any comment from Turbine on orc-craft and fell-wrought damage types relating to mitigations. What's the official word on this? Are these going to be mitigatable, and if so, to what extent?