Feature Article Feedback: Forging Legendary Items, Part 2

[Dom12]

Hi, I am still confused. Hypothetically, lets say I've obtained an epic legendary item for me to level when I am level 51. Once I reach level 60, I've started raiding with my guild and by a shear luck, I receive an epic legendary item from the final boss. Does that mean all the time I spent on levelling my legendary from level 51 to level 60 will go to waste since most likely, I will be replacing the previous epic to the new one I just acquired? Lets say, I raised the epic legendary item I received from lvl 51 to its "final completion." Would the stats reflected on that item comparable to that of the epic legendary item that I received in the raiding instance, once it has achieved its final LI levelling?

The way I understand it, the epic L60 item will probably be inferior when you get it to the L51 that you've worked up. But it will have the potential to surpass the L51 item. If you want keep the L51 item for some reason, then you can't get anything from it, but if you deconstruct it, you will get points that you can use toward leveling your new epic item. From the sound of it, an item that has been capped should give a lot of experience points when it's deconstructed, so your effort definately hasn't been wasted in that case.

[Benucio]

...if you deconstruct it, you will get points that you can use toward leveling your new epic item. ... so your effort definately hasn't been wasted in that case.

To Accountant: I think that quote (above) answers your question perfectly. Good news eh?

[JeanCarlo]

Your summery differs from mine. I didn't break out the individual attacks, just went average over all. I guess to my an overall average is all I can about, but can see how you can make the argument that the right damage is better. I didn't take out blees, as they may lower your average, but still add to the overall Time To Kill (TTK). Not sure if this is the right or wrong way to look at this, but defintly interesting. Has made me want to do some tracking on my hunter when MoM hits.

Well, what I was testing for was more in terms of DPS variance dependent on weapon damage type. The 30 dmg bleeds are some what irrelevant to this as they're always common and has little to no depedence to the weapon, either it's dmg type or even it's DPS as it's related to the skill (or in this case, to one of my trait that makes a crit chance on strike skills cause a Bleed).

Anyway, I didn't think to try to just look at it more "globally", but re-doing the numbers looking at it that way, again without the bleeds, I still come up with

Common + Common
133 hits averaging 186.82 per hit

ADM + Common
142 hits averaging 196.22 per hit


Difference of about 5.03%

Edit: And again, note that I was still using an off hand common weapon. The numbers will probably be a bit different if either I had 2 ADMs vs 2 Common, or 1 2H ADM vs 1 Common 2H.

[JeanCarlo]

Hi, I am still confused. Hypothetically, lets say I've obtained an epic legendary item for me to level when I am level 51. Once I reach level 60, I've started raiding with my guild and by a shear luck, I receive an epic legendary item from the final boss. Does that mean all the time I spent on levelling my legendary from level 51 to level 60 will go to waste since most likely, I will be replacing the previous epic to the new one I just acquired? Lets say, I raised the epic legendary item I received from lvl 51 to its "final completion." Would the stats reflected on that item comparable to that of the epic legendary item that I received in the raiding instance, once it has achieved its final LI levelling?

AFAIK, you can get as much as 50% of your IXP from a leveled weapon if you deconstruct it. I'm not sure where this will be come launch, or patch#1, but a Blue name did mention looking further into the mechanics due to possible weirdness (in theory, you could get more XP from a L11 than a L19 or even L20 weapon).

Also, it's unlikely that you will get to L60 with a L51 weapon. A more likely scenario will be that you will be continuously "upgrading" your weapon until L60.

[MikeA]

You should just test until you get crits with the same attack with both damage types. Crits always do max damage so that should give you the exact difference in damage types.

[JeanCarlo]

You should just test until you get crits with the same attack with both damage types. Crits always do max damage so that should give you the exact difference in damage types.

Data's all there actually; just didn't want to fall in the "statistics don't lie, statisticians do" syndrome.

First Data
All Common Damage

Auto Attacks - 54 hits, ranging from 83 to 196 for a total dmg output of 7,314, averaging 135.44 per hit

Brutal Strike (2 main hand, 1 off hand) - 39 hits which translates roughly to 13 use of the skill, ranging from 163 to 505 for a total dmg output of 8,902, averaging 228.26 per hit

Wild Attack (1 main hand, 1 off hand) - 40 hits which translates roughly to 20 use of the skill, ranging from 137 to 461 for a total dmg output of 8,634, averaging 215.85 per hit

Second Data
Mix of Ancient Dwarf Make (main hand, legendary) and Common (off hand, quest)

Auto Attacks (COMMON) - 34 hits, from 82 to 146 for a total dmg output of 3,643, averaging 107.15 per hit
Auto Attack (ADM) - 34 hits, from 144 to 213 for a total dmg output of 5,726, averaging 168.41 per hit

Total Auto Attack - 68 hits, from 82 to 213 for a total dmg output of 9,369, averaging 137.78 per hit

Brutal Strike (COMMON) - 12 hits, from 166 to 351 for a total dmg output of 2,890, averaging 240.83 per hit
Brutal Strike (ADM) - 24 hits, from 213 to 551 for a total dmg output of 6,049, averaging 252.04 per hit

Total Brutal Strike - 36 hits, from 166 to 551 for a total dmg output of 8,939, averaging 248.31 per hit

Wild Attack (COMMON) - 19 hits, from 137 to 299 for a total dmg output of 3,752, averaging 197.47 per hit
Wild Attack (ADM) - 19 hits, from 191 to 503 for a total dmg output of 5,803, averaging 305.42 per hit

Total Wild Attack - 38 hits, from 137 to 503 for a total dmg output of 9,555, averaging 251.45 per hit

Highest Auto common - 196
Highest Auto ADM - 213
8.67%

Highest Wild common - 461
Highest Wild ADM - 503
9.11%

Highest Brutal common - 505
Highest Brutal ADM - 551
9.11%


Edit: Note: The higher number ones (both for Common and ADM) are more than likely Devastating hits, tho that (wording) does not up in the combat log.

[Yito_Graft]

*SNIP*
Common + Common
133 hits averaging 186.82 per hit

ADM + Common
142 hits averaging 196.22 per hit


Difference of about 5.03%

Edit: And again, note that I was still using an off hand common weapon. The numbers will probably be a bit different if either I had 2 ADMs vs 2 Common, or 1 2H ADM vs 1 Common 2H.

I wonder how I was off by so much, as I showed little diffrence.

Data's all there actually; just didn't want to fall in the "statistics don't lie, statisticians do" syndrome.
*SNIP*

I must be the statistician who lied, didn't mean to, but somehow made a bad graph

[JeanCarlo]

I must be the statistician who lied, didn't mean to, but somehow made a bad graph

That was NOT directed at you, or any one on this thread

[Yito_Graft]

That was NOT directed at you, or any one on this thread

Oh, I take no offense. Lol, I re did the numbers, and I noticed that during the second set of numbers you had a large number of those 30 bleed effects. Removing them showed a grapoh closer to your numbers. Without showing the TTK in a number, adding the 30 bleeds vastly changed the damage average. I am still curious to do this more, I love playing with graphs and numbers, strange I never got into LOTRO numbers sooner. I will be exeted to see what my hunter can produce in MoM, but I'm sticking to damage types, not slayer types.

[GlennH]

When you increase legacies on a LI do you have to increase the lower tiers first and then the higher ones? How does that work?

Thanks,
Skaldsson.

[Pyroburn]

When you increase legacies on a LI do you have to increase the lower tiers first and then the higher ones? How does that work?

Thanks,
Skaldsson.

You can increase any you want, as long as you have enough points to do so.

[JeanCarlo]

Oh, I take no offense. Lol, I re did the numbers, and I noticed that during the second set of numbers you had a large number of those 30 bleed effects. Removing them showed a grapoh closer to your numbers. Without showing the TTK in a number, adding the 30 bleeds vastly changed the damage average. I am still curious to do this more, I love playing with graphs and numbers, strange I never got into LOTRO numbers sooner. I will be exeted to see what my hunter can produce in MoM, but I'm sticking to damage types, not slayer types.

Yea, the 30 Bleed dmg occurred quite a bit more on the second set (mostly my fault, as the second set had more fights in it) and it eschewed the numbers a bit as it dragged the average down. I didn't feel that it was too erroneous not to count it since it was not related to the test per se (as it did not take into account actual weapon/dps) so I just took them out on all the comparisons.

[MummyLord]

I was excited about legendaries until I realized it was for 50+. Too bad it doesn't start at 20 for us slow to level folks (15 months and I am finally up to 40..and starting over soon with one of the new classes).

[JeanCarlo]

I was excited about legendaries until I realized it was for 50+. Too bad it doesn't start at 20 for us slow to level folks (15 months and I am finally up to 40..and starting over soon with one of the new classes).

With the current mechanic for Legendaries, it doesn't really make sense to start any lower. Even at L51 - 59, you're more likely to over-level your LI that , until L60, you really won't be using a "permanent" one.

[MummyLord]

With the current mechanic for Legendaries, it doesn't really make sense to start any lower. Even at L51 - 59, you're more likely to over-level your LI that , until L60, you really won't be using a "permanent" one.

I knew there would be good reasons why it wasn't possible but I think it might of increased interest in the game if they could of worked it out for 20-60 because it's a feature I've been wanting for years.

[Brydie777]

I am curious as to what this is going to do to weaponcrafters in the expansion. Are they going to be obsolete come 51+?

[jware30]

I've not seen this mentioned explicitly anywhere, but my legendary weapon could continue to gain xp and level even if my character has reached lvl 60 and no longer gains xp?

[swisskdl]

I've not seen this mentioned explicitly anywhere, but my legendary weapon could continue to gain xp and level even if my character has reached lvl 60 and no longer gains xp?

Legendary Items have their own level caps separate from your players level.

[JeanCarlo]

I am curious as to what this is going to do to weaponcrafters in the expansion. Are they going to be obsolete come 51+?

Can still make off hand weapons.

[Brydie777]

Can still make off hand weapons.

So they are pretty much limited to a few classes now then for weapons. Thats unfortunate. I love the idea of the Legendary Weapons, they do seem really cool and innovative, but its still unfortunate that its making Weaponcrafters all but obsolete with MoM. Ah well, glad I am an armor crafter :P

[Yito_Graft]

Someone from beta told me there are a lot more traps, and that is weaponsmith. I will keep my GM, just for traps for my hunter. A Small market, but a little more we can do.

[JeanCarlo]

So they are pretty much limited to a few classes now then for weapons. Thats unfortunate. I love the idea of the Legendary Weapons, they do seem really cool and innovative, but its still unfortunate that its making Weaponcrafters all but obsolete with MoM. Ah well, glad I am an armor crafter :P

*shrug* it really depends on how you want to look at things.

ME, personally, I have 5 L50s, all Gm in one thing or another covering the full spectrum.

Metalsmith - between my champ and guard, I think I "Still" have about 2 pieces of crafted armor all together and mostly because having 5 chars + 1 rift run a week means it takes forever to outfit them Tho both of them started with 4 pieces each (shoulder + helm were from Rift trader)

Tailor - between my LM, Mins and Hunter I probably still have 4 - 6 pieces of crafted armor. All 5 of them have B12 cloak, LM is 4/6 on Rift, hunter is 3/6 (+quest armor) and Mins is 2/6 (+ 1 Class armor).

Weaponsmith/Woodworker - Mins (1), LM (0), Hunter (2), Guard (1) Champ (2) but I have to admit, mostly because I haven't had much luck in winning rolls on fiery gem

Jeweller - all of them have at least 3 - 4 Etched beryl if not more, some still have brilliant silver, etc.

Cook - all of them eat, and carry at least 2 stacks of tarts, 1 stack of either vit or agi

Scholar - all have at least 5/5 battle scrolls, at least 10 power pot, and at least 10 morale pot, At All Times.



All in all, except for Jeweler, only the two that really use consumables are expected to be of a LOT of use. The rest are just stop-overs until I get quest/loot gear. This is in SoA, and I don't expect it to change drastically in MoM (if at all).

[Yito_Graft]

*shrug* it really depends on how you want to look at things.
*SNIP*

I agree with this. I was told by a beta tester, that a lot of the legendary purples arn't better than a top tier 6 weaponsmith weapon. yes, you will eventuly get a great legendary, but the beta guy said that a lot will still buy crafting in the interum.

[Pyroburn]

I agree with this. I was told by a beta tester, that a lot of the legendary purples arn't better than a top tier 6 weaponsmith weapon. yes, you will eventuly get a great legendary, but the beta guy said that a lot will still buy crafting in the interum.

I intend to use crafted weapons until I get to level 60 and level up a legendary that has better DPS then the level 58 one shot crit crafted.

It's just too stupid to pour so much time into an item just to outgrow it in a level or two. The crafted items will last longer and there is no fuss of fighting trying to level up a DPS legacy that frankly is worthless on level until rank 4 or 5 which is at least level 10 or 13 for a weapon. Which at that time you have already out leveled the item and would have to replace it anyways.

It's more logical to bank the IXP for later use on a level 60 item.

[Yito_Graft]

*SNIP*
It's more logical to bank the IXP for later use on a level 60 item.

I agree with this. I will be leveling LI's, but only in my inventory. I hear you can just have them in your inventory, they get ixp. Once they hit 50, sac them for an ixp item and store it. repeat. I might change mind if I find an INSANELY uber LI, but think that over all will be farming runes, settings, gems, and ixp