Post those ideas here!

[draganil]

lets say CA is out auto attack skill.
and what do we have other than that?
spark. shocking words. essence of storm. sustaining bolt. and if we have spam spark and ca like 100 times and you get your buffs. EC. than a very long cd vivid imagery.
we mainly use first 4. and ec with buffs. and vivid for special situations.
how about other ranged classes? i dont have a hunter but i know that hunters have at least 10 skills after quick shot. and we need to use ca far more than hunters use quick shot. and still we can count it as out auto attack dps? which class else stops and just do auto attack while pvp ing ?
come on its obvious its not just a auto attack skill we need it.
while playing with ocmbat analysis i see that half of my damage comes from CA. than spark. than ec. (its that high cuz of trying to pop buffs probably. i dont have 5th piece of lightining set)
please ZC dont ignore this. i dont want anything looking like an other class but we have lower damage per sec comparing some other classes in lightining build.

another solution in my head is ok keep ca this way but make spark stronger with less cd. like we can do spark+ca+spark+ca+spark+ca instead of spark+ca+ca+spark+ca+ca we are using this 2 skill till 9th attunement. to use other skills highest potention. and most fights ever before we had a chance to get 9th attunement.

one more thing is new skills (yea im prepared to clear my fire skills from my bars if this happens).

i really love weapon of storm. about that bubble thing i think word of exaltation skill shouldnt want attunement and shouldnt spend any too with same buble duration. BUT every heal or batle attunement gives extra bubble time. for 1v1 fight we wont be able to use an OP bubble but if fight is long than we can use a longer duration bubble. or higher bubble morale. or both but scaled to not be OP.

[JeauxLOTR]

Some form of Healing-on-the-move is really needed. It seems WoH animation may the easy to work into movement.

Come on ZC, Throw Me Something Mister!

[Telcharan]

lets say CA is out auto attack skill.
and what do we have other than that?
spark. shocking words. essence of storm. sustaining bolt. and if we have spam spark and ca like 100 times and you get your buffs. EC. than a very long cd vivid imagery.
we mainly use first 4. and ec with buffs. and vivid for special situations.
how about other ranged classes? i dont have a hunter but i know that hunters have at least 10 skills after quick shot. and we need to use ca far more than hunters use quick shot. and still we can count it as out auto attack dps? which class else stops and just do auto attack while pvp ing ?

Assuming you're only counting skills that do damage at range, and not miscellaneous buffs and stuff, hunters have precisely 9 skills in their rotation on varying cooldowns. Total. We have seven lightning skills, in addition to fire and frost skills we can use should we choose to as the situation warrants. The variety of skills we have is fine given that we have two other trait lines that have almost completely different sets of skills associated with them, whereas the hunter only uses the same 9 damage skills regardless of what else he is doing. I would really rather he not add more skills that need to be used frequently to the class; my bars are quite crowded enough as it is. Yes, I called CA a pseudo auto-attack, because that's what ZC has said he thinks of it as, but using it doesn't count as doing nothing like a real auto-attack does. It's a filler skill, and does damage appropriate to that position.

come on its obvious its not just a auto attack skill we need it.
while playing with ocmbat analysis i see that half of my damage comes from CA. than spark. than ec. (its that high cuz of trying to pop buffs probably. i dont have 5th piece of lightining set)
please ZC dont ignore this. i dont want anything looking like an other class but we have lower damage per sec comparing some other classes in lightining build.

CA generally makes up ~25%-30% of my damage depending on circumstances; I'm not sure why you'd be using it so much more often than I am even if you are having trouble getting buffs to proc. In any case, as I already said the point of CA is that it's our filler to use when other skills are on cooldown. The fact that it makes up so much of your damage indicates that it's doing fine as a damage dealing skill. Even assuming lightning needs a general buff, I don't think buffing CA is the best way to do it, and it's certainly not something that ZC would ever find acceptable given his past behavior. It's like asking him to buff EC at this point, it's just not going to happen. I'm not sure why you want to be encouraged to use it more anyway; you seem to use it quite enough as it is.

Some form of Healing-on-the-move is really needed. It seems WoH animation may the easy to work into movement.

Come on ZC, Throw Me Something Mister!

This wouldn't be acceptable as a solution to me. WoH lasts so long that there is no reason to cast it on the move; you should have ample opportunity to put it on people while you're standing still, and just let it tick while we're moving. What we need is to be able to heal on the move for short periods of time to allow us to continue to be effective in fights that require frequent movement; being able to cast WoH while moving just makes maintaining it very slightly easier. The only heals that would really be useful on the move are MV and possibly the revamped EftA, depending on how instant the latter becomes.

[draganil]

Assuming you're only counting skills that do damage at range, and not miscellaneous buffs and stuff, hunters have precisely 9 skills in their rotation on varying cooldowns. Total. We have seven lightning skills, in addition to fire and frost skills we can use should we choose to as the situation warrants. The variety of skills we have is fine given that we have two other trait lines that have almost completely different sets of skills associated with them, whereas the hunter only uses the same 9 damage skills regardless of what else he is doing. I would really rather he not add more skills that need to be used frequently to the class; my bars are quite crowded enough as it is. Yes, I called CA a pseudo auto-attack, because that's what ZC has said he thinks of it as, but using it doesn't count as doing nothing like a real auto-attack does. It's a filler skill, and does damage appropriate to that position.


CA generally makes up ~25%-30% of my damage depending on circumstances; I'm not sure why you'd be using it so much more often than I am even if you are having trouble getting buffs to proc. In any case, as I already said the point of CA is that it's our filler to use when other skills are on cooldown. The fact that it makes up so much of your damage indicates that it's doing fine as a damage dealing skill. Even assuming lightning needs a general buff, I don't think buffing CA is the best way to do it, and it's certainly not something that ZC would ever find acceptable given his past behavior. It's like asking him to buff EC at this point, it's just not going to happen. I'm not sure why you want to be encouraged to use it more anyway; you seem to use it quite enough as it is.



This wouldn't be acceptable as a solution to me. WoH lasts so long that there is no reason to cast it on the move; you should have ample opportunity to put it on people while you're standing still, and just let it tick while we're moving. What we need is to be able to heal on the move for short periods of time to allow us to continue to be effective in fights that require frequent movement; being able to cast WoH while moving just makes maintaining it very slightly easier. The only heals that would really be useful on the move are MV and possibly the revamped EftA, depending on how instant the latter becomes.

i would prefer solutions instead of excuses. you seem have a hunter too. so do you want to share your both classes log?
there are many different situations. i prefer compare with hunters. they have that aoe cd reset and focus thing with high crit rating and while group pulls my hunter friend hits like 3k dps for first seconds. its really not possible with fire traits. so you an say its aoe so im skiping this.
pvp. i guess you really hate CA. than i assume you dont pvp. cuz when a warg ambushes you you tickle him with CA like first 10 sec ? really?
or one target pve dps. still hunters do it more. im doing it like 200 dps lower than hunters geared same quality with me. i may be a bit better tho.
i dont want a visual or mechanic things looking or feeling like hunters. i only want dps. and also some reasonable dps for first seconds of combat. if you have a solution besides CA (i see you ocming with nothing here) i would love to hear it.
every class has differenet style i really love rk but when game tells me you will wear worse armour than hunter. also you will dps less. b-p-e less. isnt it ugly ?

[Chris91]

No CA buff

Really there is no need to encourage people to CA spam, better buff SS if it has to be

Someone who doesn´t even manage to spam SS-CA-CA instead CA alone doesn´t deserve more DPS

[Sizzling]

This wouldn't be acceptable as a solution to me. WoH lasts so long that there is no reason to cast it on the move; you should have ample opportunity to put it on people while you're standing still, and just let it tick while we're moving. What we need is to be able to heal on the move for short periods of time to allow us to continue to be effective in fights that require frequent movement; being able to cast WoH while moving just makes maintaining it very slightly easier. The only heals that would really be useful on the move are MV and possibly the revamped EftA, depending on how instant the latter becomes.

I'm not sure I'd want WoH insta-cast either, though I wouldn't object if it were made as such. I think it's fine as is for the most part. For those fights that do require excessive movement, I trust/hope that my existing hots will suffice enough before I become stationary again. Making MV insta-cast even at the expense of a higher power cost or animation delay or whatever seems like it'd be a bit OP, particularly seeing as how it's a mainstay in our healing rotation.
With EftA being addressed already, I would be happy just to have MV's induction shortened to ~1.5 seconds, if not shorter, and have our overall utility increased.. Sounds like both of those things will happen, so any additional changes made to our healing line is gravy/icing for me... As long as MV's healing output isn't nerfed!

[Phoss]

I'm not sure I'd want WoH insta-cast either, though I wouldn't object if it were made as such. I think it's fine as is for the most part. For those fights that do require excessive movement, I trust/hope that my existing hots will suffice enough before I become stationary again. Making MV insta-cast even at the expense of a higher power cost or animation delay or whatever seems like it'd be a bit OP, particularly seeing as how it's a mainstay in our healing rotation.
With EftA being addressed already, I would be happy just to have MV's induction shortened to ~1.5 seconds, if not shorter, and have our overall utility increased.. Sounds like both of those things will happen, so any additional changes made to our healing line is gravy/icing for me... As long as MV's healing output isn't nerfed!

RKs need a better heal on the move than prelude of no hope. If you're kiting and you need to stop to cast that writ or whatever other heal, that mob that is chasing you is going to smash your head in. Oh and don't touch mending verse unless it's a clear buff; It has been nerfed enough.

Also, it's actually kinda funny that people think lightning is burst dps. The guy above has it right about spamming CA and tickling the enemy, but not about boosting that skill. Too much time building attunement (without a consumable) to get the good stuff (which has long cooldowns) and you wonder why other classes have a low opinion of RK dps.

When group leaders are looking for dps, their first thoughts are champion, hunter, and maybe burglar. Go look around or ask in the other class forums, try pugging with people that don't know you and won't give you that charity spot because they like you and your 'adequate' dps (kins).

Devs should just remove our melee autoattack and squeeze what little dps that is into our ranged stuff.

[Telcharan]

i would prefer solutions instead of excuses. you seem have a hunter too. so do you want to share your both classes log?
there are many different situations. i prefer compare with hunters. they have that aoe cd reset and focus thing with high crit rating and while group pulls my hunter friend hits like 3k dps for first seconds. its really not possible with fire traits. so you an say its aoe so im skiping this.
pvp. i guess you really hate CA. than i assume you dont pvp. cuz when a warg ambushes you you tickle him with CA like first 10 sec ? really?
or one target pve dps. still hunters do it more. im doing it like 200 dps lower than hunters geared same quality with me. i may be a bit better tho.
i dont want a visual or mechanic things looking or feeling like hunters. i only want dps. and also some reasonable dps for first seconds of combat. if you have a solution besides CA (i see you ocming with nothing here) i would love to hear it.
every class has differenet style i really love rk but when game tells me you will wear worse armour than hunter. also you will dps less. b-p-e less. isnt it ugly ?

You mean both my class' combat log? My hunter is level 56; I'm not sure it would be a fair comparison. I don't play my hunter because I got thoroughly bored with him years ago; suffice to say that any suggestion aimed at making the RK play more like a hunter isn't going to get much traction with me. As for comparisons with them go: We start a fight with zero attunement and no real prebuffs aside from CV; a hunter on the other hand starts with full focus+improved focus buff+whatever of his other two or three buffs he feels like popping right off the bat. We are never going to equal them in upfront burst, so even bothering to compare ourselves to them insofar as that is concerned is a waste of time. We should ideally get fairly close to equaling them in sustained DPS, and I'm not thoroughly convinced that we don't, all things considered.

As for your warg ambush scenario: Hit ST or AoS to get some range, SS, enamel, SW, EoS, PI, SS, CA, and you're at 9 attunement with an very powerful burst DPS buff active. You've also used three stuns, and unless he's got a brand up (not everyone has them) at least one of them is going to stick. If you're tickling a warg with CA for 10 seconds to hit max attunement, you're doing it wrong. Very wrong. It's not exactly hunter burst, but a hunter in the same scenario is rooted in place using at least half his skills and hasn't even the slightest possibility of doing his ideal damage because of the warg running through him and interrupting and all the rest.

I'm not sure I'd want WoH insta-cast either, though I wouldn't object if it were made as such. I think it's fine as is for the most part. For those fights that do require excessive movement, I trust/hope that my existing hots will suffice enough before I become stationary again. Making MV insta-cast even at the expense of a higher power cost or animation delay or whatever seems like it'd be a bit OP, particularly seeing as how it's a mainstay in our healing rotation.
With EftA being addressed already, I would be happy just to have MV's induction shortened to ~1.5 seconds, if not shorter, and have our overall utility increased.. Sounds like both of those things will happen, so any additional changes made to our healing line is gravy/icing for me... As long as MV's healing output isn't nerfed!

I wasn't really suggesting that MV be made instant all the time, and I agree that it would be rather OP as such. I was thinking more along the lines of some skill when used opens MV up to be instant cast for a period of time, in the same vein as when minstrels pop off some skill I can't remember they get an instacast BC or two on the run. If they made MV instant all the time, it would almost certainly take a nerf somewhere along the line, and that's simply not worth it.

RKs need a better heal on the move than prelude of no hope. If you're kiting and you need to stop to cast that writ or whatever other heal, that mob that is chasing you is going to smash your head in. Oh and don't touch mending verse unless it's a clear buff; It has been nerfed enough.

Oh yes. If he nerfs MV again I'm going to be really annoyed, it's been nerfed pretty much every patch released since Moria launch. At least if he changes EftA he won't have the excuse that EftA is better and he's nerfing MV to make us use it.

Also, it's actually kinda funny that people think lightning is burst dps. The guy above has it right about spamming CA and tickling the enemy, but not about boosting that skill. Too much time building attunement (without a consumable) to get the good stuff (which has long cooldowns) and you wonder why other classes have a low opinion of RK dps.

We have plenty of burst in lightning, just not at zero attunement. There's a difference between burst DPS and upfront DPS. If what you want is burst, lightning has plenty of it, just hit PI when Tale of the storm is up and you've got all your heavy-hitters off cooldown and if you have a decent crit chance you'll crit well over 50% of the time for the duration of the buff. If what you want is upfront, no we don't have it, nor do I think we need it. Any fight that lasts so short that you don't have time to get to attunement is a fight of too short duration for anyone to care about what anyone else's DPS is.

When group leaders are looking for dps, their first thoughts are champion, hunter, and maybe burglar. Go look around or ask in the other class forums, try pugging with people that don't know you and won't give you that charity spot because they like you and your 'adequate' dps (kins).

Odd. I haven't been denied a spot in a pug raid or fellowship because the leader thought RKs weren't good DPS. Ever. Haven't even had it come up. Incidentally I still haven't seen anyone post anything relating to evidence that our DPS sucks so much, just a bunch of people claiming that their anecdotal evidence proves that every class and its mother does more DPS than them, so if you have something like that hidden away somewhere I'd like to see it.

Devs should just remove our melee autoattack and squeeze what little dps that is into our ranged stuff.

Little DPS? Have you ever actually tried sitting in melee range while DPSing? When I do so about 25% of my DPS comes from my autoattack. What Martial Training does to our melee DPS output is fairly ridiculous. In any case, I'm pretty sure a buff of that magnitude isn't going to happen any time soon.

[Sizzling]

RKs need a better heal on the move than prelude of no hope. If you're kiting and you need to stop to cast that writ or whatever other heal, that mob that is chasing you is going to smash your head in. Oh and don't touch mending verse unless it's a clear buff; It has been nerfed enough.
.

This is true, but in that case, while WoH is certainly more potent than prelude and will buy you a bit more time, it won't be enough to keep you alive either if that mob(s) is hard hitting and isn't cc'd in any way. And virtually all on-level and above-level mobs seem to be hard hitting against squishes. Again, though, I certainly wouldn't object if it were made insta-cast.

EftA could be useful if it were changed to insta-cast, but if the CD is too long, then it won't be that useful as a self-heal if you have to continually move/kite. It sounds like EftA won't be insta-cast however and will just be a short-induction large heal, unless Z.C. changes his mind on that matter.
MV would have to be nerfed in various ways if it were changed to insta-cast, and I think we can all agree we don't want to see it nerfed... Again.
I can appreciate the sentiment of wanting a heal on the move. I'm reminded of just how abysmal we are in that department
every time I run my mini, run fangorn's, run certain wings of ToO... Somehow, though, I don't think we'll ever be matching 6-
8k worth of burst heals every 3-4 seconds which is exactly what I'd be doing on my mini, not including chord of salvation
every 10 seconds, in an effort to keep myself alive.. Or anyone alive for that matter. I suspect that's just the nature of the
minstrel, and something that will continue to be inherent to the minstrel class. RKs have never been known for having large,
continuous burst heals, at least not for as long as I've been playing the game. Edit: My point here is that if we do acquire some heal-on-the-move, it very likely won't be as potent as our counterpart's ability...nor should we expect it to be seeing as how that's not inherent to the RK. That said, I will admit any boost to that area will be an improvement over prelude to hope.


So, I'd just be content to having all of our heals have significantly shorter inductions than they do, because, quite simply, our
inductions are downright slow in comparison to our counterparts as it stands now.

[marlwyn]

Im gonna let ZC see again why RKs need buffs and how OP minnies are compared to us

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...se-of-Isengard

See the 4 skills on the picture, i want something similiar! Its Bull#### that a mini can take 3 wargs beating and a RK is dead before the stun wears off, No i dont want to be a minnie, give us trigger skills that heal us or something, as long as i can match a mini!

[Raven-EU]

Little DPS? Have you ever actually tried sitting in melee range while DPSing? When I do so about 25% of my DPS comes from my autoattack. What Martial Training does to our melee DPS output is fairly ridiculous. In any case, I'm pretty sure a buff of that magnitude isn't going to happen any time soon.

I get about the same, although my auto-attack values land closer to 20%. I do hope that when the devs make their DPS comparisons the auto-attack DPS is not included, or at least only partially included! You simply cannot compare our auto-attack DPS with a Hunters ranged auto-attack when standing in melee range of some bosses is an express teleport to ketchup vile.

Just give me an auto-attack toggle (maybe tie it to Martial Training):

(off) No melee auto-attack but +whatever % tactical damage
(on) Melee auto-attack on PLUS increased physical mitigation (block with'a rock!)

[Bradegor]

I can appreciate the sentiment of wanting a heal on the move. I'm reminded of just how abysmal we are in that department every time I run my mini, run fangorn's, run certain wings of ToO... Somehow, though, I don't think we'll ever be matching 6-8k worth of burst heals every 3-4 seconds which is exactly what I'd be doing on my mini, not including chord of salvation every 10 seconds, in an effort to keep myself alive.. Or anyone alive for that matter. I suspect that's just the nature of the minstrel, and something that will continue to be inherent to the minstrel class. RKs have never been known for having large, continuous burst heals, at least not for as long as I've been playing the game. Edit: My point here is that if we do acquire some heal-on-the-move, it very likely won't be as potent as our counterpart's ability...nor should we expect it to be seeing as how that's not inherent to the RK. That said, I will admit any boost to that area will be an improvement over prelude to hope.


So, I'd just be content to having all of our heals have significantly shorter inductions than they do, because, quite simply, our inductions are downright slow in comparison to our counterparts as it stands now.

Very good post. I don´t want to be a minstrel, but i just want to be as effective as them. Before RoI, we were "faster", although our heals weren´t so big. But nowadays, i feel minstrels are both faster and bigger... the solution would be to have faster heals, and while minstrels have some awesome instant heals, the other ones shouldn´t be as fast as ours.

The way of RK healing should be fast heals with some hot component, so they could be stacked fast on the target, and also some emergency heal as hots really don´t cope well with spike damage. Right now, 2 seconds on Mending Verse is a tad slow.

My solution would be traiting it for going in 1.5 secs would be a solution for making rk heals faster, even if we lose some quantity of healing for the HPS don´t get overpowered. Plus, having an emergency heal means we wouldn´t be so dependant on MV healing for dealing with damage spikes, meaning we could live with MV doing a bit less of healing. Also, WoH being instant cast would also help with rotations going a bit faster.

The main issue is that ZC has already made his mind for Update 6, so we will have to live with what he brings to us. Let´s hope he has included a slower inductions reduction on heals. Still, could be worthy to note this to him for future releases.

[Eluinril]

Id like to see something done about chisels and rifflers, currently the only chisel worth using is the lightening one, because of the HUGE amount of crit rating on it. Don't get me wrong, I like crit rating, and I certainly dont want to loose it. But that is also the problem.

I only use the riffler of writs when im soloing NCF or StH. I have never even considered using any of the others. (Even though the effects on some are quite interesting)

It would be better to give us the crit and more stats on an offhand item, and put affinity and special effects (like riffler of writs, finesse chisel, riffler of hope) on chisels and rifflers.

Give us an offhand without dmg, just stats (rk writing tablet?), fix the chisels/rifflers.

[Thorgrum]

Very good post. I don´t want to be a minstrel, but i just want to be as effective as them. Before RoI, we were "faster", although our heals weren´t so big. But nowadays, i feel minstrels are both faster and bigger... the solution would be to have faster heals, and while minstrels have some awesome instant heals, the other ones shouldn´t be as fast as ours.

You dont want to be a minstrel but in this paragraph you mention them 3 times and compare your toons skill to theirs. It dosent add up Bradegor, if you dont want to be a minstrel why are you basing your desired heals off a comparative of them? Would it be accurate to say you want to be more like a minstrel then? You're and RK, time to let go of the minstrel envy.

The way of RK healing should be fast heals with some hot component, so they could be stacked fast on the target, and also some emergency heal as hots really don´t cope well with spike damage. Right now, 2 seconds on Mending Verse is a tad slow.

Excellent, a strictly RK reference, nice change. This would change the RK healing spec, its always been HOT with one fast heal component. Your proposing a complete flip, there is another toon that already does this but we wont mention its name, I know you wouldnt want to be one right? The RK could certainly use another on the move heal, its a good idea and it should be available in the dps build. EFTA is again the best candidate this skill is underdeveloped and has the potential to be the best heal an RK could possibly get. You make it an instant no cast heal that spikes? That would work depenendnt on the cool down (dont want to be to OP with it).

My solution would be traiting it for going in 1.5 secs would be a solution for making rk heals faster, even if we lose some quantity of healing for the HPS don´t get overpowered. Plus, having an emergency heal means we wouldn´t be so dependant on MV healing for dealing with damage spikes, meaning we could live with MV doing a bit less of healing. Also, WoH being instant cast would also help with rotations going a bit faster.

agreed. I would add that WoH t1 could be added to a big EFTA maybe on a crit or if terse narrative is slotted? Lets make EFTA that one heal that really shines.

The main issue is that ZC has already made his mind for Update 6, so we will have to live with what he brings to us. Let´s hope he has included a slower inductions reduction on heals. Still, could be worthy to note this to him for future releases.

This is the part of the equation that can be solved with a 2 fold approach. 1. stop making the argument predicated on what the mini has. 2. concensus and consistancy from the RK community on a given skill change and need and flood the board with QQ. Its the only way turbine listens (see creeps and wardens as evidence)

[Bradegor]

Thorgrum, minstrel is the only class that has the same spot for the healing RK. I don´t want to be a minstrel, honestly :P. This doesn´t mean that they´re better suited for RoI raids and devs should find a solution for RKs to be able to be toe to toe with minstrels on healing efficiency without losing RK healing identity (whichever that is).

I have posted how both classes heal and why i don´t want this to change. Minstrel heals by large quantity heals, and also burst heals. RKs heal through heals with hot components, or hots. I want RK to heal by hots/fast heals with hot component, with a fast, emergency heal which is really needed not by the way the RK heals but how the new instances/raid are being designed in RoI. I don´t feel that having a fast, emergency heal strips RKs from their identity. Nor you do, don´t you?

I honestly don´t understand why making MV 1.5 seconds casting would become us minstrels. Same heal, just a tad faster. That is. Would help RKs cope with the fast damage pace the raids have become after RoI. What´s the problem? Plus, minstrels have been existing for 5 years and they had fast, big heals only since RoI. I´m sorry but fast heals is more a RK motto than minstrel one. We were faster healers before RoI and i cannot understand why you say that casting faster than minstrels would become us minstrel. I should have played a minstrel before RoI without me to know it .

I lived perfectly before RoI with no emergency heal. I had zero complains and i felt we were as good, if not better healers than minstrels. It´s not the class which has been changed, but the enviroment, and we have to react over it.

EDIT: these are not times for personal attacks/whatever. Let´s just focus on what the RK could use.

[Thorgrum]

EDIT: these are not times for personal attacks/whatever. Let´s just focus on what the RK could use.

I dont know you personally so it would be impossible to attack you. an attack suggests I am setting upon you in a forceful way. Thats a subjective rational, as one could deduce that my commentary on your obsession with minstrels is means to point out what the RK needs.

Rk's need to stop comparing themselves to minstrels. Its a dead end, that ship has sailed when they keep coming up over and over and over, thread after thread, month after month, now going on year after year one has to conclude the problem is larger then what ails the RK at the time.

[Chris91]

This is the only thing I really want (in addition to the hints you gave us):


Make Perfect Imagery allow the use of Word of Exaltation regardless of attunement within 10 seconds

Then I´m a happy RK

[marlwyn]

This is the only thing I really want (in addition to the hints you gave us):


Make Perfect Imagery allow the use of Word of Exaltation regardless of attunement within 10 seconds

Then I´m a happy RK

That sounds....AWESOME!

But i still want insta cast on move any attunement mending verse or something similiar MATCHING MINI HEALS
Otherwise im not going to be happy RK...

Conclusion

I will be playing a Rune-keeper, and hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed designing it! This whole process has been amazingly fun, and I look forward to your reactions.

I dont feel like that anymore ):

-SadBobo

[loki84]

zombie, a quick yes or no question.... do you have a 75 RK with non gm gear, and have you ever taken him to the moors. (no need to tell us who he is lol)

[Bradegor]

I dont know you personally so it would be impossible to attack you. an attack suggests I am setting upon you in a forceful way. Thats a subjective rational, as one could deduce that my commentary on your obsession with minstrels is means to point out what the RK needs.

Rk's need to stop comparing themselves to minstrels. Its a dead end, that ship has sailed when they keep coming up over and over and over, thread after thread, month after month, now going on year after year one has to conclude the problem is larger then what ails the RK at the time.

Maybe you don´t know me, but still you keep personally commenting my posts not just on the subject, but on me personally, which is way far from the subject we all want to try. You keep posting your "we´re not minstrel guys, let´s leave it" mantra, making believe we´re all obssesed with minstrels ... but we aren´t, or at least some of us don´t. Everyone just want the class they play to work for its best. Any class. I have read complains for EVERY class during the course of the years ... minstrels included, of course. And they were right, they lacked things.

The issue, both in DPS and healing mode, comes from the changes not in the class, but in the enviroment. If things were like in wow as some friends told me, with tanks having HUGE health pools, and bosses needing time to empty them, then hots would work better and we wouldn´t be speaking about healing RKs needing buffs. I wouldn´t mind to get some more buffs to adapt better for serious fights instead of the frustration that some times i have when i see two people getting spike damage and knowing i will be able to just bubble one and pray the other healer who has emergency heals can heal him.

And of course, comes the issue of balancing. We all want that every main class was able to perform its role as well, or as close as well as possible, to any other one. But then, we got a warden and a guardian, and we find that is MUCH easier to heal a guardian, that we got less wipes, and that the warden doesn´t add any spice that guardian brings in a raid. Hence, there is a balance problem and warden players can feel they´re underpowered. If they would have at least a better Moors performance... it doesn´t happen, either. So we find a serious issue of balance and it´s a right on the customers to complain about his gaming experience is suffering.

I agree with you on the idea that we should focus on which ideas - going back to the topic- would be good for the class to implement, without falling into dreams, or unbalancing skills, or getting too similar to other class. I still feel that dread wipe skill should be shared with captains so they don´t make the raid composition so dependant to have at least a single minstrel, specially considering that captains have no other class fightning for their spot, while on minstrel it does.

RK issues would be:

-Survability. Could be considered the weaknesses of the class, the tradeoff for being able to DPS or heal. I feel that other classes do the same without getting it, but if devs feel this has to be this way, so let it be. We could still get a self bubble usable on any attunement, or even a self heal skill usable on any attunement.

-Healing. Main change could be getting some spike damage heal, which RKs lack apart from the bubble. It´s more imposed by the RoI changes than the class changes themselves. Other issues are minor (better group heals, heals on the move, faster inductions...)

-DPSing. Two DPS trees that "need" separate LIs for working at full potential, and have different areas to work with. Lightning mostly operates for soloing and Moors. I guess some minor tweaks could be done there, although i admit that i seldom use it nowadays. Fire being the fellowship traitspec, could use some tweaks on rotation and keeping some kind of burst even if it´s induction.

-Utility. Need of more skills apart from healing or DPSing? well, that is a weird subject. Lack of utility comes more in comparison with what the other healing class brings, than the RK utility itself. IC rez buff is a somewhat poor ability for a healer, but a great one for a DPSer. Debuffing is nice but not many players seem to add it into rotation as usually LM/brg ones are much better and take power/time for DPSing which is the main aspect of the class and considering so many DPS fights you find, looks like it´s not a good idea to waste time on debuffs. Not distintive buffs for the fellowship apart from some prevention skills which are not really needed and hard to use nowadays in the actual raid fights.

In my opinion, RK is a very good DPS class, which excels in some fights like Saruman (a mate was parsing 3k DPS in parts of that fight; considering the main ST skill is also AOE, you can guess how good is to have 3 targets at the time), and a capable healer, who still have some problems due massive spike damage on new raid, and the simple awesome and enhanced abilities the other main healing class brings.

To add something to the discussion, about if we could use new ideas on the RKs, i´d go with a new system of attunement, or at least how it works. Maybe giving bonuses to healing/damage on lower and higher attunement, but letting the RK use the full arsenal of skills, would be more interesting.

The RK attunement only really matters much about how fast we can reach the full attunement and when to use some neutral skills to get back to full. If we tied an important bonus to damage &healing in the attunement bar, maybe we could really work some interesting ideas and builds. Considering the importance of the LIs for a RK, i doubt it would make the RKs too powerful; simply it would give a broader sense of the class. Also, some changes on how fast you can attune back would make the use of different skills to bring some planification and so. Just an idea, could explain it more but i guess some purists like Thorgrum wouldn´t like it .

[Thorgrum]

Maybe you don´t know me, but still you keep personally commenting my posts not just on the subject, but on me personally, which is way far from the subject we all want to try. You keep posting your "we´re not minstrel guys, let´s leave it" mantra, making believe we´re all obssesed with minstrels ... but we aren´t, or at least some of us don´t. .

You poor thing Bragedor, here I thought you understood the dynamic we had developed over the months nearly a year. I guess I was wrong. Yes, believe it or not people on the web are sometimes wrong. I would have assumed that if you were offended or otherwise put off by something I posted you would have ignored it or put me on ignore but I often have much higher expectations of people and that’s a fault of mine.

No worries, you wont hear from me directly again.

I hope whatever changes come its exactly you and other RK’s want.

[Bradegor]

You poor whatthing Bragedor, here I thought you understood the dynamic we had developed over the months nearly a year. I guess I was wrong. Yes, believe it or not people on the web are sometimes wrong. I would have assumed that if you were offended or otherwise put off by something I posted you would have ignored it or put me on ignore but I often have much higher expectations of people and that’s a fault of mine.

No worries, you wont hear from me directly again.

I hope whatever changes come its exactly you and other RK’s want.

Well, the dynamic you have tried over the months is trying to put me in a place where i dont belong and consider me something i´m not. Even with condescence it´s not a pleasant dish. Usually i have enjoyed your mumblings but they start to be repetitive, so ...

...i suggest we start something different: i will post something about hunters being able to do amazing burst damage at 40 meters and rock the world in the Moors while poor RKs have the fragility of a butterfly and can´t kill the creeps as easier as minstrels can. Then you will say something about me wishing to be a warg and "forget about it, RKs have been always suckiers in the Moors and will always be". Then i´m sure many people who come to this forums will join the fray.

That healing RK wanting to be minstrel thing was a dead and and started to bore me. Nothing personal .

[Phoss]

Writ of health on the move. Sizzling, would be a good start. I wonder if it's possible to keep the induction, but while still moving so the skill doesn't lose any power. If armor of x got a damage reduction buff too (40% for 20-30 sec would be ideal) along with WoH on the move, RK survivability would certainly improve in many situations. Some easier to attain crit defense would really help too with the crazy amount of devastates some mobs get on light armor classes.

Telcharan, read these threads if you want evidence:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...gle-target-DPS
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...4-Champion-DPS
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...rse-Comparison
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...e-current-time...

Watch the vid in the last thread and look how many RKs are there. Buffs favor melee classes and stacking burglars/champs/captains/minstrels is optimal. We can put out decent numbers on 3 targets while in berserk fire mode (soon to be fixed™) which is handy far less often than single target dps.

Show me your parses with fire or lightning "sustained dps (2-5 minutes)" of around 1500-1700, AT RANGE, on a single training dummy without help or buffs from other classes.

[draganil]

Little DPS? Have you ever actually tried sitting in melee range while DPSing? When I do so about 25% of my DPS comes from my autoattack. What Martial Training does to our melee DPS output is fairly ridiculous. In any case, I'm pretty sure a buff of that magnitude isn't going to happen any time soon.

thats right i just tried and 7.452 of 52368 from melee attacks.
i erased other parts of his post sorry. but if its really there are rks that doesnt even use ss. than boost the ss.
im testing theese on dummies and my burglar does at least same dps with my rk. and they have same gear nearly. usually burglar does better tho.
its not about i play burglar better than rk or something. its rks fault. dps needs love. come with your idea how to boost it. more ss daamge is also would be fine with or without a lower cooldown.

[Eluinril]

I've got an easier solution to the problem with the Lightening chisel being OP and making all the others obsolete for any traitline:

Make the melee crit rating on Martial Training into general crit rating. Give the lightening chisel 4% critical multiplier. The fire chisel could use some love as well though, icpr is kinda boring and useless atm. How about: +5% dmg on writ of fire, or +1 target on Fiery Ridicule?

A frost chisel would be cool as well, but I wont know what to give that as I have no idea what the intentions for the frost line are. (+2 aoe targets?)

For healing you can either use the writ riffler or the prelude riffler. Also, the finesse chisel would also be viable again for the moors.