No more Challenge on School of Tham Mirdain?

[bryan_gibson79]

I tried to do school of Tham Mirdain twice last night (quick kinnie runs) and the Flames of Knowledge Challenge did not show up. Did they remove the challenge on this or am i just bugged? I thought maybe they removed it since it was so friggin easy...

[DelgonTheWise]

I tried to do school of Tham Mirdain twice last night (quick kinnie runs) and the Flames of Knowledge Challenge did not show up. Did they remove the challenge on this or am i just bugged? I thought maybe they removed it since it was so friggin easy...

I ran it recently, and it was still there. Are you all level 85 (is that a requirement for challenge)?

[bryan_gibson79]

I ran it recently, and it was still there. Are you all level 85 (is that a requirement for challenge)?

You are indeed wise! I think the guard was 84. I had not thought of that! Thanks for pointing out the obvious...facepalm

[Tollaf]

Well I don't know... I ran it 24 hours ago several times and it was fine. Just now when we tried we could not get CM at all. We tried everything, disbanding, IF, not IF, starting something else. We were all 85's too. Can anyone else confirm that this is also the case?

[MathKnight]

I can confirm it. Went to run this yesterday, and there was no challenge. All 85's, had run the instance several times at 85 before with successful challenge attempts. Ran Library instead.

I understand it was being exploited. Challenge is likely down until they can stop that from happening.

[Nakiami]

Really? Nice of them to tell us. Is FLM disabled again too?

[Frisco]

I wouldn't be surprised if they disabled it because of all the exploiters. Apparently it was possible to get many times the intended number of seals through an exploit.

[Thorwyn99]

Just put a ticket up on the issue of the challenge not showing up and a GM answered it was closed to an exploit for the time being.

Just as heads up, it would really be nice if they could announce that stuff.

[Sapience]

Just put a ticket up on the issue of the challenge not showing up and a GM answered it was closed to an exploit for the time being.

Just as heads up, it would really be nice if they could announce that stuff.

We never announce exploits. No one else ever should either.

However, yes it was closed after investigations found that a very large majority of those (and I do mean very large) doing this challenge were exploiting it. It will be fixed for Update 11.

[Thorwyn99]

We never announce exploits. No one else ever should either.

However, yes it was closed after investigations found that a very large majority of those (and I do mean very large) doing this challenge were exploiting it. It will be fixed for Update 11.

Well i understand that, no need to announce the exploit just the part where somethings disabled because of one.

I was genuinely thinking i was bugged out hence why i put in a ticket.

[borges_maze]

I really wish Turbine would be a little more liberal with the ban/suspension hammer on those who exploit. We had people openly talking about it in glff, and there were many on the server who exploited it many, many times. This not only ruins the economy but creates gear gaps between those who exploit and those who take the long, fair route. No one fears punishment, and so they cheat.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

I really wish Turbine would be a little more liberal with the ban/suspension hammer on those who exploit. We had people openly talking about it in glff, and there were many on the server who exploited it many, many times. This not only ruins the economy but creates gear gaps between those who exploit and those who take the long, fair route. No one fears punishment, and so they cheat.

It is Turbine's responsibility to:

1) Release content that can't be exploited.

2) In the situation where an exploit makes it to live to disable the content until a change can be made to the game software to close the exploit. The disable needs to be put in place quickly.

Banning is only acceptable for those player activities that can't be stopped by the software. One such example is profanity, spam, racial, sexual and other abuse of the chat channels. Turbine needs to announce that starting at time x - the following activity is forbidden with the punishment listed.

Instead of banning them, a better solution is to set the number of seals to zero. Delete all items owned that purchased with those seals. The database probably does not support deletion that requires every item to have the character numeric id that made the item, bartered for the item, looted the item stored permanently in the item record.

[borges_maze]

It is Turbine's responsibility to:

1) Release content that can't be exploited.

2) In the situation where an exploit makes it to live to disable the content until a change can be made to the game software to close the exploit.

Banning is only acceptable for those player activities that can't be stopped by the software. One such example is profanity, spam, racial, sexual and other abuse of the chat channels.

So, players shouldn't bear any responsibility or suffer any consequences for repeatedly taking advantage of (in this case) an obvious exploit? Just exploit, exploit, exploit until Turbine closes the instance? I agree that Turbine has the responsibilities you listed. However, I disagree with the implication that the players who exploit should not be punished.

I'd be happy if alternative disciplinary action was taken (such as removing items/gold gained via exploit) but this seems much less feasible than a suspension or, in the most egregious cases, a ban.

[Frisco]

It is Turbine's responsibility to:

1) Release content that can't be exploited.

2) In the situation where an exploit makes it to live to disable the content until a change can be made to the game software to close the exploit. The disable needs to be put in place quickly.

Banning is only acceptable for those player activities that can't be stopped by the software. One such example is profanity, spam, racial, sexual and other abuse of the chat channels. Turbine needs to announce that starting at time x - the following activity is forbidden with the punishment listed.

Is that anywhere in the EULA, TOS, or COC? Can't seem to find it.

But what I can find is a provision in the COC--which we all agree to before playing this game--that says that we are not to exploit game mechanics.

I think you may have mixed up LOTRO with "Yula of the Rings Online".

4. Account Suspension/Deletion. TURBINE MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE THE ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this TOS.

17. You will not exploit, distribute or publicly communicate any Game error, miscue or bug which gives an unintended advantage within the Game world. You may report bugs at lotrobugs@turbine.comThis e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

[Crell_1]

Is that anywhere in the EULA, TOS, or COC? Can't seem to find it.

It is a reasonable demand that any consumer might have of an online game they play. The right to quality content, the right to playing by the same rules as everyone else (Exploit enforcement.). These are the kinds of things we encourage or discourage by how we vote with our wallet.

[Souku]

there were way too many people abusing this exploit to ban them. i know on Arkenstone running it to get 33 seals per run became the "normal" way of running it. even pugs were running it this way. it really would not be in Turbine's best interest to ban half of the server. safety in numbers i guess.

[Fredelas]

There is a known issues post here on the forums. It would be helpful if Turbine updated them from time to time as additional issues become known or are fixed.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...1-Known-Issues

[BigLotroFan]

We never announce exploits. No one else ever should either.

However, yes it was closed after investigations found that a very large majority of those (and I do mean very large) doing this challenge were exploiting it. It will be fixed for Update 11.

It's pretty obvious no was asking for instructions on how to do an exploit...just communication when content is disabled.

[Raymore]

What is it called when you complete a Challenge ('Completed: Challenge <Fill in the Blank>') and no Challenge award is bestowed and the Challenge Chest does not appear either?

[Blister_Burster]

What is it called when you complete a Challenge ('Completed: Challenge <Fill in the Blank>') and no Challenge award is bestowed and the Challenge Chest does not appear either?

That's called "Broken Content"

[Yula_the_Mighty]

Is that anywhere in the EULA, TOS, or COC? Can't seem to find it.

You do not have to put this kind of stuff in a user document. It is part of standard sinew for providing products and services. It is expected by customers. It is discussed the the regulatory and legal base for business activities as created by legislators, regulator bodies, courts.

Product specific documents like CoCs, EULAs and TOSs are private documents created by a company in an attempt to thwart or negate the standard legal base (often works against people that do not know that a company can not override laws and regulations except certain limited ways). Or to add onto of the legal base.

But what I can find is a provision in the COC--which we all agree to before playing this game--that says that we are not to exploit game mechanics.

I do not know what an exploit is in Lotro. Turbine has to publically define each exploit. I will decide whether to exploit or not exploit based on chance of being caught and the punishment. Many people use this "decide whether to break or not break a rule in all aspects of life based on the chance of being caught and the punishment". I do not have to drive much in South Florida to see a lot of people breaking laws like - running red lights, not stopping for stop signs, driving the wrong way on a one way street, illegal turns, illegal parking, or a biggie - driving too fast.

I think you may have mixed up LOTRO with "Yula of the Rings Online".

If the Yula oversight is required for Turbine to provide an acceptable product that complies with customer expectations and the laws of the USA (Federal, State, Local) they should make me the ultimate decision maker immediately.

Things that I learned early on both in business and personal llife is that:

1) You acknowledge your mistakes.

2) Accept responsiblity for any defects or mistakes.

3) Fix it.

Too often in personal life and in business you get:

1) We did not make a mistake.

2) It is your problem not my (our) problem.

3) It does not need fixing because it is not broken.

A lot of software development houses that I have worked at as a software developer use the "Hide the problem>" "Stonewall the customer>" "Fix it via a software update without them knowing that the update contains a fix for this issue.". In order for this mechanism to work you need a small herd of known bugs that are killed by the update to justify the update. We would deliver an update to fix five bugs in the live software. It actually fixes 43 bugs. 38 of those bugs are complaints that we have blown off from the customers. When caught we lie "It must have been an expected benefit of fixing bug 239761.".

We would drive the integration and system test department crazy by holding bug reports (which we later returned as not reproducible) or refusing to accept a bug as unreproducible until we could get a stealth fix into the software.

[SozuRogberry]

How bout you stop putting out garbage content/product. That bug has been around for years, I remember people doing it for sup third marks (I think? maybe 4th marks) back in the day.

Years old bugs that you can't fix but you dismantle things that don't need it. Bunch of clueless folk running the show it seems.

[Requiemslove]

So...school challenge mode has been closed because of exploiters? You know some of us ran that instance time and again because you can literally do it in 4-5 minutes and get 3 seals, and did not have any idea about this exploitation. So if as they say some were getting what is it, 33 seals a time, after exploiting school [again i have no idea how] then why is that exploitation there in the first place? It should have been fixed ages ago, and definately explains how some people had their FA gear in 1 bloody day. Somehow i smell a rat, i am not sure there IS, an exploitation as i have already said, done school hundreds of times and never got more then 3 seals. No, what i think has happened, is they closed challenge mode because it is really easy, and so they have decided to push the dificulty up in u11, which i personally welcome.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

Somehow i smell a rat, i am not sure there IS, an exploitation as i have already said, done school hundreds of times and never got more then 3 seals.

There is a way to "Exploit" the instance. Get more than the three seals that you got in one day. It is not the first time players figured out how get more loot out of this instance that the developers expected.

[Rhaphael]

We never announce exploits. No one else ever should either.

However, yes it was closed after investigations found that a very large majority of those (and I do mean very large) doing this challenge were exploiting it. It will be fixed for Update 11.

We don't want you to announce the exploit. We want you to announce when you close something because of an exploit so people don't go thinking the instance is bugged.