Summer LOTRO Executive Producer’s Letter

[JimhadaUK]

Perhaps someone can look at freeing up all the old names from EU servers.

When EU servers transferred to US people had a limited time to associate your account from Codemasters with Turbine.
Those that never transferred have lost the chance to ever play those characters again. The thing is, those characters still exist on the EU servers, those names are still taken, noone is ever going to log in and play those characters again.

Would it not be nice to run a script that adds a -eu suffix to those characters names so as to free up what I can imagine must be a large number of names.

[Oelle]

It would be really nice, if letters like ä, ö, ü, ß would be possible to chose for names of characters, guilds and item.
its just not the same with ae, oe, ue, ss instead. looks awfully bad.
just a little point in this naming-policy
english people wont care about it. germans would like it
and i suppose, french would like to be able to use accents and cedille...

[Rhoewyn]

All of you that say players should advance scout are forgetting that it might not be their choice of which server their Kinship is moving to.

Also, If an 8 year player bumps a 7 year player as you suggest, the 7 year player is obviously not on a server being closed .. so they won't be jumping servers to bump a 6 year player.

But again, it matters not what I think will happen or what you think will happen. All that matters is what Turbine does. I do concur that it would be nice to know this ahead of time. I feel very sorry for the narcissistic thinking as it is unrealistic and those players will be caught unawares by the results.

I'm suggesting that if the name is that important to someone they may try to transfer to a server where they would have seniority. Doubtful, but possible, but there is speculation fueled by lack of clarity suggesting that all transfers will be open and free. There are people on Brandy that may want off because of the overcrowding. I am skeptical it will roll out that way but others seem to think it will. For a more plausible issue, consider this. You are Joejohnson on server X, a 7 year player. An 8 year player that is Joejohnson transfers on day 1 and you get bumped. You change name to Bobsmith. Day 2 of transfer period, 8 year player Bobsmith from server Y transfers to your server and bumps you. Now you choose name Johnjohnson. Day 3, 8 year player Johnjohnson from server Z transfers and bumps you. See? There is no reasonable and feasible way it can be based on anything other than server tenure if an entirely new naming convention is not introduced. It will disrupt everything already in place on given server, kinships, mail, friend lists, general server community, just everything.

I am on Vilya and my kinship is anticipating having to move. We aren't 100% sure, but we figure we are better planning for it in case. And by scouting and planning I mean making tough decisions such as whats more important to me name or kin if I have to choose, reserving names on servers if available now, considering alternate spellings I can live with, considering an entirely new name I can live with, coming up with backstory as to why I would decide to take a new name (if you're an RP dork like me.) Not all planning and scouting involves best case outcomes such as finding a server where every name for every kin member is available. More often than not its developing contingency strategy.

[Murtanion]

IMO, the renaming should go by when the character was last played, so if a character on the incoming server has your name, but it hasn't been played in a year or five, it gets the rename, and you retain your name.

For all other transfers not related to the migration, the usual rules apply.

That's the fairest thing to do here.

This would be much appreciated. I moved to Brandywine over 3 years ago, and since then have had to watch a level 13 carry the name I have been using for my main since Moria.

[auximenes]

It would be really nice, if letters like ä, ö, ü, ß would be possible to chose for names of characters, guilds and item.

I don't think that will ever happen. While I can understand the desire to have those letters available, the majority of players do not know how to generate those letters, making some communication difficult.

[Silmelin]

Exactly. This is not about individuals its about established communities. If your server is closed (mine is probably 50/50) why should several hundred people on your new destination have to relearn who "player_x" is on server y? This is not about a 1 v. 1 decision. Servers are communities. The most fair decision for the community is, the first player with an identity in that community keeps it for the sake of the community, period. This is especially compelling since it seems the most robust communities are going to remain whole. Forget level, forget account start date, forget VIP v. F2P, etc. If Brandy has had an identity in their midst known as Beaniemooch or Deorwyn, the entire community of Brandy should not be forced to re-learn who that is.

Is that fair for the individual? perhaps not. Is it fair for the community? Obviously so. If not, what am I missing?

I agree with this.

It worries me greatly that my characters might get renamed, and it worries me even more that I'll one day log in and several of my many LOTRO friends might be called something else while strangers will walk around with the names of my friends and I won't know who is who

You wouldn't know who you can trust anymore

[cdq1958]

Absolutely an idea I would get behind. As I said, I think Turbine should change the naming policy in some way at the same time and give every single character a rename scroll. Just do a full reset like Wildstar did when they merged (in their case they made it so everyone needed a first and last name after the merge).

Naming policy changes include:
*Allowing spaces
*Doing name@account (I hated this idea at first, but honestly in Star Trek Online it doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would).
*Forcing name/surname

I would prefer a less restrictive one like allowing spaces, but I think a naming change policy is the best course of action.

That being said, as I mentioned before, I think they are doing it this way instead of real merges in order to avoid this issue entirely. I don't agree with that choice if they are, but I think that's what's happening.

How many times does it have to be said that some do NOT want a surname? An optional surname is okay. If it is mandated, I'm going to be extremely angry. Same thing with an account or old server tag. Been there, done that; didn't like it one bit!

[frost702]

I agree with this.

It worries me greatly that my characters might get renamed, and it worries me even more that I'll one day log in and several of my many LOTRO friends might be called something else while strangers will walk around with the names of my friends and I won't know who is who

You wouldn't know who you can trust anymore

Going to have to come to peace with the fact that pretty much everyone will have to rename themselves or forever go on as JohnDoe-1.

[infinitewhimsy]

I know I've already reserved my names on every server, and compiled a list of names I am going to try and hijack too. I welcome the looming disaster.

[Trobon]

How many times does it have to be said that some do NOT want a surname? An optional surname is okay. If it is mandated, I'm going to be extremely angry. Same thing with an account or old server tag. Been there, done that; didn't like it one bit!

It doesn't really matter how many times people say it any more than it matters how many times people say they want to be able to keep their names or how many times people say they don't want others taking their names. It isn't a question of what "people" want or don't want. I don't really care about that when making suggestions because there's no possible way to make everyone happy. My suggestions are there because they are alternatives that will be "fair" to all players.

If those are mandated your angry, if people lose their names their angry. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that the whole game should revolve around you and your whims.

[Jillymala]

Tera is telling people they are changing inactives that haven't logged in for a year.
This possibly might be an answer for inactive people that quit who still retain names.
It's not a solution but it's an idea that might help in some cases.

[I

[cdq1958]

It doesn't really matter how many times people say it any more than it matters how many times people say they want to be able to keep their names or how many times people say they don't want others taking their names. It isn't a question of what "people" want or don't want. I don't really care about that when making suggestions because there's no possible way to make everyone happy. My suggestions are there because they are alternatives that will be "fair" to all players.

If those are mandated your angry, if people lose their names their angry. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that the whole game should revolve around you and your whims.

Nor yours; and 'fair' isn't possible unless it is make everyone rename and first come, first served, which some won't think is 'fair'.

[Scirocco]

How many times does it have to be said that some do NOT want a surname? An optional surname is okay. If it is mandated, I'm going to be extremely angry. Same thing with an account or old server tag. Been there, done that; didn't like it one bit!

To be clear, what I proposed would not result in mandatory surnames.

The character already on the server can keep the base name if they wish. Others have the flexibility to add what appears to be a surname, a pre-name, or other descriptor to their name. From the game's perspective, of course, it's still just a single name.


The overall goal should be to retain the greatest number of players though this process. If Turbine uses the current system, it will lose a good chunk of players. Being forced to move is bad enogugh, without the ability to also keep your name in some viable form. The space character is on every keyboard, and doesn't require another field or additional characters added to the current name field.

[Trobon]

Nor yours; and 'fair' isn't possible unless it is make everyone rename and first come, first served, which some won't think is 'fair'.

Fair doesn't mean everyone's happy. Fair means that everyone has the same playing field.

That being said, I said in my initial post that I would prefer the optional version myself. However, that doesn't mean that we can simply ignore the other options because some people don't like them. They are real options and should be taken as such.

[cdq1958]

To be clear, what I proposed would not result in mandatory surnames.

The character already on the server can keep the base name if they wish. Others have the flexibility to add what appears to be a surname, a pre-name, or other descriptor to their name. From the game's perspective, of course, it's still just a single name.


The overall goal should be to retain the greatest number of players though this process. If Turbine uses the current system, it will lose a good chunk of players. Being forced to move is bad enogugh, without the ability to also keep your name in some viable form. The space character is on every keyboard, and doesn't require another field or additional characters added to the current name field.

I agree with the goal and someone, if not everyone; is going to have to change their name, one way or another. Still, my issue is going to be with mandating tags of any kind. I know that I am going to have to change some of my names, thanks to having the ability to make characters freely on all of the current worlds; just don't make me have to tag it, since that will also cost the game a chunk of players who are currently spending money. While surnames, per se, don't break lore, some of the proposed tags will be jarring; for they will not look appropriate for Middle-Earth (namely @account or @oldServer tags).

[Almagnus1]

Tera is telling people they are changing inactives that haven't logged in for a year.
This possibly might be an answer for inactive people that quit who still retain names.
It's not a solution but it's an idea that might help in some cases.

That's probably the best alternative.

But you know there will always be that handful of characters that just want to grief others, so they will take well known player names on likely server transfer targets just to force a rename.

There needs to be a way to deal with that kind of griefing, and one that gives precedence to those character that have existed for at least a year.

[Oelle]

I don't think that will ever happen. While I can understand the desire to have those letters available, the majority of players do not know how to generate those letters, making some communication difficult.

There are german servers. nearly everyone on them speaks german and for us, those letters are totally normal. they are used everywhere and are parts of our normal keyboard within those servers, there would not be any problem with those letters. Even items created by turbine use those letters! Just for players, they are forbidden.


Is this naming-policy-problem really as big as you describe it, that it has to be discussed that much? When i created my characters, nearly every name i tried was free...
That way i would think, that there are loads of untaken names and if you do not have names which are just stolen from anywhere and like that known to many people, you should think, that a newly creative name you yourself came up with should be free on many other servers, too...
i would guess, that 95% of the characters, who change from one server to another wont have someone there, who already has their name...
so... i just think, it is not that much of a problem like it sounds in the forums.

But just to discuss it: Active players on any server have to keep their names. If newly migrated charakters take their names, it would be totally chaotic.
Thats a fact. I have not at all any problem with renaming inactive characters of people who nearly never play the game or stopped playing alltogether. In those cases, migrating players could perhaps "steal" those names. But any active character on any server has to have priority over every migrating character.
Maybe rename everyone (which would be some chaos too) and change the rules for possible names. But migrating players taking the names of active players is just a no-go.
If it was just a problem of those two players, it might be chosen between who is older, higher in level, paid more and so on. But it isnt. Those who stay where they are have friends, guilds and are part of the community. You just cant take their name. Everyone would think, you are they. No way. That just must not happen to active players. If someone has to change their name, it has to be the migrating character.

[Trobon]

That's probably the best alternative.

But you know there will always be that handful of characters that just want to grief others, so they will take well known player names on likely server transfer targets just to force a rename.

There needs to be a way to deal with that kind of griefing, and one that gives precedence to those character that have existed for at least a year.

Really though there isn't any way to really do this that is going to turn out well unless they change the naming scheme. What about the new player who just got into the game six months ago and has been playing heavily since then? Do they have any less right to their name than someone who has had it for 5 years? Why? They chose a name that was available on their server and have become known by that name on their server. Why do they have to change their name in this scenario?

[danielbrown1969]

What about the new player who just got into the game six months ago and has been playing heavily since then? Do they have any less right to their name than someone who has had it for 5 years?

Yes

Why?

You answered the question when you stated the facts pertaining to the question. In the scenario of "there can be only one", the most fair thing is to give seniority to the player with the older account - all things being equal of course.

Why do they have to change their name in this scenario?

Well, unless Turbine or someone else comes up with a 100% win/win/win resolution, someone has lose their name(s). It isn't fair to the newer person but it is even less fair to have the senior account lose their name. It's just the way things are.

To be honest, I would have liked to see Turbine copy what Battlenet did (about 4-5 years ago iirc) and make their character names linked to their account names. This has so many benefits besides just aiding with the naming/renaming scenario. Imagine an account-wide ignore in-game >< Perhaps people would be less crass and behave themselves more? I know a lot of people hate comparing this game to other games (especially WOW), but let's face it, Blizzard/Battlenet does do some things better than Turbine does. And vice versa...

[Scirocco]

Is this naming-policy-problem really as big as you describe it, that it has to be discussed that much? When i created my characters, nearly every name i tried was free...
That way i would think, that there are loads of untaken names and if you do not have names which are just stolen from anywhere and like that known to many people, you should think, that a newly creative name you yourself came up with should be free on many other servers, too...
i would guess, that 95% of the characters, who change from one server to another wont have someone there, who already has their name...
so... i just think, it is not that much of a problem like it sounds in the forums.

Yes, it is that big of a problem, and there will be people who will not continue in Lotro if forced to undergo a name change.

Take me, for example. I am a single character player in MMORPGs. I have storage mules, crafting mules, AH mules, and the like (it varies by game), but my avatar is always pretty much the same (a long-range casting type). I was "Scirocco" in EQ (seven years), DAoC, WoW, SWTOR, and now LOTRO (for eight years). To me, changing my character's name is like starting an entirely new character all over again. If I do that, it's in a new game.

When I start a new MMORPG, if I cannot get the name "Scirocco" on a particular server, I go to a different server. If I cannot get the name on any server, I don't play that particular MMORPG at all. That's how important my character's name is to me. After nearly two decades of MMORPGs, this isn't going to change.

I'm not alone in this. There are people who have integrated their character names into their social media venues, sometimes even websites. I've not done that, but I do understand the importance of their character name to them.

I'm not totally unreasonable. I'm willing to use Scirocco with a last name, sobriquet, or the like. I'm fine with being something along the lines I suggested earlier:

Scirocco the Elder
Scirocco Stormwarden
Red Scirocco

The above, as I've noted above, can be accomplished by simply allowing spaces in the character name field. This avoids the catastrophic effects of a "there can be only one" direct, head-to-head conflict over a name, no matter what conflict resolution system is used (age of account, activity, VIP status, etc.).

I also don't have any problem with someone else having some form of "Scirocco" on the same server. We deal with multiple people having the same name all the time, and I'm sure the people of Middle Earth did as well.

[danielbrown1969]

Yes, it is that big of a problem, and there will be people who will not continue in Lotro if forced to undergo a name change.

I'm not totally unreasonable. I'm willing to use Scirocco with a last name, sobriquet, or the like. I'm fine with being something along the lines I suggested earlier:

Scirocco the Elder
Scirocco Stormwarden
Red Scirocco

The above, as I've noted above, can be accomplished by simply allowing spaces in the character name field. This avoids the catastrophic effects of a "there can be only one" direct, head-to-head conflict over a name, no matter what conflict resolution system is used (age of account, activity, VIP status, etc.).

I also don't have any problem with someone else having some form of "Scirocco" on the same server. We deal with multiple people having the same name all the time, and I'm sure the people of Middle Earth did as well.

I empathize with you.

How would you handle the friend's list and mailing (potential) fiascos that will ensue?

If you are 'Scirocco the Elder' on my server and there is another who is 'Scirocco the Eldest' and then perhaps a 'Scirocco the Grey" as another who is 'Scirocco the Gray', don't you think there is an extremely good probability of having many mistakes made? Not to mention someone who maybe takes a 'Scirocoo the Elder'?

[Trobon]

Yes



You answered the question when you stated the facts pertaining to the question. In the scenario of "there can be only one", the most fair thing is to give seniority to the player with the older account - all things being equal of course.



Well, unless Turbine or someone else comes up with a 100% win/win/win resolution, someone has lose their name(s). It isn't fair to the newer person but it is even less fair to have the senior account lose their name. It's just the way things are.

To be honest, I would have liked to see Turbine copy what Battlenet did (about 4-5 years ago iirc) and make their character names linked to their account names. This has so many benefits besides just aiding with the naming/renaming scenario. Imagine an account-wide ignore in-game >< Perhaps people would be less crass and behave themselves more? I know a lot of people hate comparing this game to other games (especially WOW), but let's face it, Blizzard/Battlenet does do some things better than Turbine does. And vice versa...

Except they have seniority on their server. You don't. They have established themselves in their community. They know people there and people know them. You don't have more right to that name on that server just because you had it longer on another. It's may not be fair to the person transferring, but it is even less fair to the person who has made a name for themselves.

It cuts both ways. You may be attached to danielbrown1969 but on my server I am danielbrown1969 and have been earned a reputation for generosity. Players have me on their friends list (another reason I don't think they will make any changes to their current system since it would mean reworking tertiary systems) and send me tells when they need help. Why do you have more of a right to that then I do just because you were danielbrown1969 on a server that closed? Especially when you get to choose where to move and I don't get to choose who moves in?

[Trobon]

I empathize with you.

How would you handle the friend's list and mailing (potential) fiascos that will ensue?

If you are 'Scirocco the Elder' on my server and there is another who is 'Scirocco the Eldest' and then perhaps a 'Scirocco the Grey" as another who is 'Scirocco the Gray', don't you think there is an extremely good probability of having many mistakes made? Not to mention someone who maybe takes a 'Scirocoo the Elder'?

Honestly this is worse with any system where other players start taking names from those established. How would they deal with the friends lists and mailing and autionhall and everything else that already has those names. They would have to completely rework a half dozen features to accommodate a system like this.

[danielbrown1969]

Except they have seniority on their server. You don't. They have established themselves in their community. They know people there and people know them. You don't have more right to that name on that server just because you had it longer on another. It's may not be fair to the person transferring, but it is even less fair to the person who has made a name for themselves.

It cuts both ways. You may be attached to danielbrown1969 but on my server I am danielbrown1969 and have been earned a reputation for generosity. Players have me on their friends list (another reason I don't think they will make any changes to their current system since it would mean reworking tertiary systems) and send me tells when they need help. Why do you have more of a right to that then I do just because you were danielbrown1969 on a server that closed? Especially when you get to choose where to move and I don't get to choose who moves in?

You make valid points, however I adamantly disagree. If I have been on my server 1 day or 1 year or 5 years and another person moves TO my server who is 1) active and 2) has more 'time served' and 3) is of equal or greater status and that person shares my name ... then 100% he should keep his name and I should change mine. There just is no logical conclusion other than that. There are lots of emotional ones, but not logical ones. Lotro is an emotional game. Players get attached to their own lore. I understand that. But in the "there can be only one" scenario, someone will survive and others will be made to rename. Again, I would like to point out my most recent above post referencing Turbine adapting a Battlenet way of naming/mailing/friending/ignoring. While it isn't perfect in and of itself, it would solve 99.8% of the problems listed here in this thread.

[Scirocco]

I empathize with you.

How would you handle the friend's list and mailing (potential) fiascos that will ensue?

If you are 'Scirocco the Elder' on my server and there is another who is 'Scirocco the Eldest' and then perhaps a 'Scirocco the Grey" as another who is 'Scirocco the Gray', don't you think there is an extremely good probability of having many mistakes made? Not to mention someone who maybe takes a 'Scirocoo the Elder'?

Do you have a problem distinguishing between various Bob's you know? I don't. Either in person or online.

In any event, you already have the potential of Scirocco, Scirocoo, Sciroco, Sirocco, and so on, so that's not an issue (any more than it is now).

Also, remember that I always have the option of running around as "Scirocco+1". There will be no more confusion between "Scirocco" and "Scirocco the Elder" than there will be between "Scirocco" and "Scirocco+1". In fact, probably less confusion.

Moreover, the ones that would be most subject to confusion on those already on the server, who are used to dealing with the bare form of "Scirocco." Their friend "Scirocco" gets to keep his bare form of the name to himself. Thus, why would anybody who has "Scirocco" on their friends list be confused? Any mail they send is going to default to their friend. In fact, they'd have to go out of their way to send something to "Scirocco the Elder" instead of "Scirocco." This really shouldn't be a problem.

In any event, dealing with some possible modest confusion is worth keeping people in the game, isn't it?