Female dwarves are on the way? :)

[elianidd2]

Yes! I love this, I really hope we have female body options for dwarves in the near future; it's been a long time coming. Dís looks great by the way, she looks like a regal old grandma and I just love her hair. <3

Edit: after reading the intervening 3 pages... all I'll say is if we had stuck to strict purity most of the game we know and love wouldn't be possible, and neither would tons of player characters since they should be not adventuring but at home baking pies and washing dishes just for being born women.

Bombur is in the game too. Why don't all my playable dwarves look like Bombur?

MoL

With all due respect, body options to have a fat male dwarf is not the same as what it means for players to have an entire gender to RP. Sorry.

I was excited at first, loved Dís' look and what it could entail for female body options for dwarves but.. I don't know, still holding out hope that this will happen <3

[Gaming_Gal]

In other words, had LotrO been implemented in utterly strict adherence to a literal interpretation of LotR + appendices as canon, without allowing for creatiev deviations, it would be either unplayable as an MMO, or have an appearance of some restricted browser game (Hobbit Farmville in the Shire, Dwarf Dungeon crawling in Moria, chess in Rivendell or whatever, you get the idea). I mean, it would still be fun for lore nerds who only ever wanna roleplay races in their respective areas, but it would resemble Second Life instead of action/adventure RPG with questing, toon progression, raids etc. The mere gameplay mechanics and dynamics of the MMO "genre" of action/adventure demand thinking outside the box and being more inclusive when it comes to interpreting "lore" for this platform.
{snip}
Yes, any race can enter Thorin's Hall. Any race can enter the Shire, and Caras Galadhon, and Aragorn's bedroom or whatever. But to be outraged by this? The solution is really very simple, yet it too often gets lore purists' panties in a twist when it's mentioned : If one doesn't like it, just don't do it... it's really that simple. Someone doesn't like other races visiting an iconic/restrictive area, so don't bring own alts of other races there. Someone doesn't like hobbit adventurers, so roll only hobbit Shire-dwellers. Someone doesn't like elves running around Bree, so don't bring your elf to run around Bree. If Dis the dwarf lady is too visible... don't let her be seen by non-dwarf alts when bringing them through that area.
{snip}
I say all of the above as someone who does play immersively in full story-mode in adherence to the inner consistency and integrity of Middle Earth history and cultural developments. And I sincerely appreciate the ongoing efforts on behalf of devs to keep fleshing out these various aspects of the rich heritage and keep LotrO an immersive and inclusive experience that accommodates many playstyles while retaining a very respectful, careful, and sensitive approach to Tolkien IP (the best I have encountered in any mass entertainment media).

I tried to snip down the most relevant bits I'm reflecting on, but overall I feel you made great points on many aspects of the deeper headache that can mire down what seems to be a simple request for a female Dwarf model option (if not gender choice).

I am in complete agreement in that the devs are always going to be dancing on the balancing scale between what is lore appropriate on one side, and how to make the game overall more accessible while still immersive to a wider audience without triggering the Estate from removing permission to use the intellectual property the game is based upon.

I also feel that folks can and do find their comfort zones, as it were, within the game as to what they feel is immersive enough. Of course, there are those who, as I did for a short spell, couldn't find that comfort zone, and have not returned. It may be that only a F2P model that's more focused on cosmetics, crafting, music and hobbies with adventuring as a minor (and then, not really a full out MMO) would be best for a diehard purist take. I'm not asking for that though--to be clear--just musing out loud.

One thing I do want to point out, though, since you mentioned it in case there are folks who suddenly get a light bulb they haven't before, is there are certain limitations that will seriously impinge on game play while trying to skirt content from a lorist perspective. However, it is not impossible thanks to later additions to the game such as adding experience for crafting and store items. Though there are many ways around the quest/kill/explore/rep related ding to virtues and such via some in game instances, or the store and using other alts to raise the points towards MC for purchases if you don't want to spend (possible additional) real world cash. I have actually tried a few different methods (before and after the store was added) to have a specific alt of any allowed race be as true to lore as possible because despite my lack of lore knowledge, I also saw it as a "so if a hobbit can only take quests/finish deeds that help hobbits in some way, what can I still do" sort of challenge. FWIW, I found such self imposed challenges interesting if only because they challenged my own lore knowledge, as well as gave an immersive consideration to what benefits are given from specific in game mechanics to any given race. So I am keenly aware of those sorts of challenges and work arounds for such notions. Some additions (like the Arias of the Valor) make such skirting even easier now. Want a Dwarf that only hangs out in Moria? There's a Valor for that. Equip a Tortoise Stone while in Moria if you want to stay challenged in Moria adventures at whatever level feels "right" for that character.

In another thread, where what level certain areas "should be" came into the mix, the heart of the matter is similar to this notion of the balance of lore versus available content. There have also been numerous threads wondering what will happen after the Ring is destroyed, and we have already had some later added content like that one quest that was sends one back to Stock where you start to see the effects of the scouring of the Shire.

Related, one interesting thing I noticed a while back is exactly how rare it has become during non festival/event times to see an Elf in the Shire, for instance. You used to see dozens on any given day. Now, because there is still so much more content available, it has spread the player base much thinner in a lot of areas. So even though one can argue that even on Landy there now aren't enough hobbits in the Shire to even populate it, there are definitely not as many Elves, Dwarves, nor even Man folk running about there. I can't speak to what it's like on Laurelin, because that server is way too strict lore wise for me so I don't play there, but I do wonder sometimes if they've managed to fill in the dev created world closer with such restrictions as you mention. Does such feel more immersive? I would imagine so.

Now, of course, I'm going to wait for all the Eagle Mount desire threads to come back. Those were the days!

[LauraHolt]

This, exactly. I'd even be happy with just a "boobs" option at the character creation/barber.

Erm... so long as there is a bare-chested cosmetic for dwarfs ... perhaps a SEPARATE female dwarf line that doesn't allow for the bare-chested cosmetic to be worn would be a better idea. The game is rated T for teens after all and if bare boobs end up in the game... I just don't think SSG would survive the onslaught of angry mom letters they'd get over that one... ;P

[Herwegur]

FWIW, I found such self imposed challenges interesting if only because they challenged my own lore knowledge, as well as gave an immersive consideration to what benefits are given from specific in game mechanics to any given race. So I am keenly aware of those sorts of challenges and work arounds for such notions. Some additions (like the Arias of the Valor) make such skirting even easier now. Want a Dwarf that only hangs out in Moria? There's a Valor for that. Equip a Tortoise Stone while in Moria if you want to stay challenged in Moria adventures at whatever level feels "right" for that character.

Absolutely agree on self-imposed challenges and love this approach, it pretty much defines how I play. When a character is faced with a new zone/region, I have to pause and wonder - is there a reason for the character to be there? How does it fit into the character's story, what brings one there? If it doesn't "click", I don't force a toon into a zone if I'm not feeling the immersion vibe. But what separates it from OCD of "having to have" everything fit, is the easygoing openness to something new and a self-invitation, as it were, to be surprised by new discoveries or realizations, as I deliberately leave many gaps in my characters' stories to be filled or "discovered" through the time spent playing. It makes for some neat creative writing prompts too.
Experience disabler is the best thing that ever happened to Lotro... I literally spent a year and a half in Moria, exploring it at walking pace without running or using goat/stables/ports. Not a stone left unturned... It was insane (or maybe I am )

But there were also times when I brought a character into a zone and it felt so wrong somehow that I just had to take it out. After immersively questing in Eregion on my main (elf), I tried taking my dwarf prospector there for routine ore farming and it felt like a violation of the place, I couldn't do it. The land was like, "why are you here? The stones still remember the gate that was shut."

Related, one interesting thing I noticed a while back is exactly how rare it has become during non festival/event times to see an Elf in the Shire, for instance. You used to see dozens on any given day. Now, because there is still so much more content available, it has spread the player base much thinner in a lot of areas. So even though one can argue that even on Landy there now aren't enough hobbits in the Shire to even populate it, there are definitely not as many Elves, Dwarves, nor even Man folk running about there. I can't speak to what it's like on Laurelin, because that server is way too strict lore wise for me so I don't play there, but I do wonder sometimes if they've managed to fill in the dev created world closer with such restrictions as you mention. Does such feel more immersive? I would imagine so.

It's really nice how many things that attracted initial protests upon being introduced have eventually become spread out or assimilated throughout the Lotro landscape to the point of being non-issues and no sources of bother.

The first cosmetic pe(s)ts in Lotro were the shrews (including the huge) and little huorns- out of anything that could've been first. Then the grims, which are classed in Lotro mob database as ancient evil... But while having these as pets is questionable, in practice they barely ever come up anymore, and when they do it's at festivals where the atmosphere is already non-serious and lighthearted anyway. And it's simply fun.
Same with Beornings and (eventually) with High Elves: rare breeds whose number is very limited in Third Age but for game's sake letting players experience them as playable characters - and it's simply fun. The initial waves subside and their presence does become rarer overtime, outside of social hubs or festivals.

My earlier huge post was a reflection on unfortunate tendency of hardcore lore crowd (not all, just sometimes) to ostrasize or look down on players who aren't up to form in their 'lore-adherence'. I even came across cases where players' biographies/character preferences were actively ridiculed for being 'lore-breaking', despite it being obvious that much creativity and thought was put in making them (and I don't mean toons with names like Leegalaz or Ahrahghohrhnh or common godmode tropes like being related to famous figures). By contrast, I found that a more inclusive and relaxed stance to others' creative endeavors/interpretations of Middle Earth experiences leads players less familiar with hardcore Tolkien stuff to get more curious about it and discover more at their own pace. The complexity of this secondary world is admittedly intimidating for complete beginners. What I respect about Lotro team's approach to game development is how inviting and open they make it (from storyline perspective) for all players to build their own stories and experiences - without making it feel like a 'lore' straightjacket while still maintaining sensitivity to minute 'lore nuggets' and nuances.

Now, of course, I'm going to wait for all the Eagle Mount desire threads to come back. Those were the days!

There is an eagle mount in game... which saves the raid when everyone gets Saruman-slapped off the top of Orthanc Or the closest we might ever get to having an eagle mount. I bet the only reason it remained a cut scene and not a full-on animation of falling player characters literally picked up by an eagle is simply the limitation of the game engine from handling such a thing. And the game engine's limitation may be the only thing keeping flying mounts out of Lotro...to relief or chagrin of many (but imagine a session play as an eagle!)


Oh, but back about female dwarves...

I'm honestly not sure what my stance on them is. Having only male-looking dwarves doesn't prevent some witty types from outfitting them in pink dresses and giving them girly names... there's at least one at every festival.

To preserve the rarity of female dwarves, if they were ever to be put into game, I almost suggested making them a store-unlock, or limiting one per account. But monetizing gender comes out looking/sounding wrong somehow, and the backlash would be severe from sources who have no clue about rarity of female dwarves in Tolkien's histories - out of context it really would look bad.

There seems no easy way around it, either keeping them out of Lotro or making them accessible without restrictions. But the number of views of this thread is the highest in all of Bullroarer: so folks are definitely interested in keeping up with this.
Realistically, adding female dwarves would add more variety/customization options, and the only harm might be in the inconsistency with all previously-developed NPC dwarves or story arcs, or in the excessive numbers of them running around. But how many players who roll female dwarves would stick with them long-term? Their numbers may peter out naturally over time, as with Beornings and High Elves.

If "cosmetic races" is the way of the future (as was pretty much the case with Noldor), new premium dwarf avatars (male and female) might be the way to go. Could be a store unlock like the H. E. Thoughts?

[Lady_Lethargy]

Erm... so long as there is a bare-chested cosmetic for dwarfs ... perhaps a SEPARATE female dwarf line that doesn't allow for the bare-chested cosmetic to be worn would be a better idea. The game is rated T for teens after all and if bare boobs end up in the game... I just don't think SSG would survive the onslaught of angry mom letters they'd get over that one... ;P

Ha. Maybe toggling the boobs on at the barber also puts a sash or something over that area on the bare character model.

[YamydeAragon]

Ha. Maybe toggling the boobs on at the barber also puts a sash or something over that area on the bare character model.

Oh that problem is already taken care, they could use the chest piece they used on female woses.

[Lady_Lethargy]

Oh that problem is already taken care, they could use the chest piece they used on female woses.

Maybe a less tribal version of it, yeah.