Since when are 1v1s considered "Rank Farming"?

[buzo]

- One person standing there doing nothing over and over while the other person kills them.

https://clips.twitch.tv/AbstrusePrettyWrenPicoMause

Cordovan confirmed rank farmer??

[Agollas]

Has some stuff been deleted from here or am I going crazy?

[zaboch]

Has some stuff been deleted from here or am I going crazy?

Yes, a lot of the posts have been removed in fact. I wonder when's our account's turns too.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

https://clips.twitch.tv/AbstrusePrettyWrenPicoMause

Cordovan confirmed rank farmer??

The evidence is overwhelming


Cordovan, please turn yourself in to the nearest GM.

[HappyCappy]

Every single time there are major balance issues in the moors due to a patch this happens. Why? Because people are trying to figure out just how broken things are. They often are not rank faming, but instead could be called testing. you hear a rumor or see a video that a Hunter at level 130 is doing a one million hit on a mob in the moors. So someone tests it out. Then, they are accused of rank farming.

Lets get real here, there isn't anyone left in the moors that is rank farming. And even if they are, who actually cares? Things are so broken in the moors that what I have seen is people more often then not just curious about how broken things really are, not about getting infamy to rank. Seriously do you have any idea how LONG it actually takes to get rank? You are taking days, like DAYS of constant farming if you even hope to get half a rank. You hear rumors of rank farming and a few years ago you might see some newb in the corner trying to rank farm. But no one who has actually been there for a while and actually has some rank even bothers with it. People don't go to the moors to grind. They go to moors to have fun. They fight 1v1 to test out gear, builds, new patches, updates, etc.

So for Cordovan and these newb GM's to focus on banning rank farmers at the time of a new major expansion and many class changes only shows how newb the mods and devs are concerning the moors. You have people returning to the game trying to see how things play now. The moors isn't where people go to grind. It's where they go to play. Rank farming was never as big a thing as people made it out to be. I bet half the people that were ever banned for it really weren't rank farming to the extent that they were accused of it.

[Yuzuriha_EN]

1. SSG cared nothing for years about PvMP, needs only to take a look at the current state of PvMP, zero work on MP's whils free peoples comes with insane toons, insane because SSG instead of spent a bit of resources on making exclusive PvMP items for EM and Osgiliath, there's still allowance to go with PvE armor with overpowered essences and imbued LI's who only makes any attempt to balance FP and MP impossible. SSG is making a direct appeal to little children who never want to die in a video game.

2. 30 seconds lag delay on RvR fights was never looked at, and with costumes @ EM I'm afraid this lag issues are only going to go worse.

3. 1vs1 is the option that some players takes, just to avoid that, skill delays because of lag, massive fights where you can't barely move, not to mention hit anything. And the only players who are opposed are those who lacks the skill for dueling.

4. This is a direct question, aren't games designed for their customers fun? Seems it's not the case. Because within the entire playerbase, not everyone enjoys same kind of action, and don't wanna get forced to be put themselves day by day at the same zergtrains, camps, massive fights or shuffles. Tbh, it's the only game I've seen who spends 6 years with no development on PvMP, and cares about what players does in...

5. There's players using game glitches as porting out using store summons or stuff which was not intended to be used at PvMP, what's their current situation? Still playing.

6. With these rules in hand, when you are open field and got instakilled by packs of burglars, or you are alone and 30 freeps runs straight on you riding their horses and kills you, that cases are "intentionally surrender"? Should these actions be taken as rankfarming? Well, that's mainly the actual status from PvMP.

7. Those who seeks 1vs1 fights rankfarm? Really? Because being tired from lagfestivals, or just going more simle, the unfair unbalance between both factions? From what I've seen those who seeks 1vs1 wants some fun, not points hunger, wants to prove themselves by placing some rules just to not make fights unfair due to unbalance.

8. I've played lotro since Beta, and from all these years, never, never saw those who does 1vs1 rankfarm, rankfarmers always used to hide themselves with their free to play reavers and something to revive them, far, too far apart from others, that way that shameful conduct will never be seen, that's a rankfarmer.

My final point is asking SSG to bring us a decent PvMP environment, with less lag and absurd mechanics as Keeps flipping side 1 minute after you take them, backdoors who are being abused because everyone can cross them in combat, there's still a banner at Gramsfoot and Glan Vraig who still notifies Access to Delving of Fror would be only allowed to the faction who controls at least 3/5 outposts (Feel free to check), the only thing done was EM map re-designed for worse. All the features that Ettenmoors original Map had were way more useful than this new design. There was no backdoors, there was a flag on keeps, so, players should fight to preotect the flag and claim the keep, there was a more dynamic situation, because action was focused on TA, and both camps, not focused on waiting at oneshooters/backdoors and all map areas were a place for a fight, whils actualy, is 50% (being nice) GV/Gramsfoot Camp, Shuffle trains from either GV/TR, Grams/Lug, of course never forget backdoor and Oneshooter's contribution.

Why not giving us a decent product and, perhaps, that way, you can rescue all those players who were gone along these years? It's possible, but, being honest, SSG, you never listen to your community. Saw & gave myself good ideas for a better PvMP, but you row in another direction. Cash above the community. I am sorry if these words are not what SSG wants to read, but I need to be honest.

[Zaheer]

gif has no meaning of ill intentions, just for the memes and date

had to do it

[NavarreBlood]

The evidence is overwhelming


Cordovan, please turn yourself in to the nearest GM.

1v1 bans have a chilling effect on an already dying zone - PvMP. The quote above pretty much sums it up. In the end someone has to use judgement to discern intent. From that clip, the spider wasn't attempting to defend itself or do anything offensively. Was it a technical glitch on the end of the player, an internet outage, lag, hard drive slowing things down, fat finger, tabbed out, not enough system memory or did Cord just get distracted as we players sometimes do? How many repeats of the same scenario will provide enough evidence of rank farming?

[buzo]

Cordovan. Can we please have an official word if those affected by the unfair suspensions and rank removal will have their accounts un-suspended and rank given back, since support is not willing to help us.

[zaboch]

Cordovan. Can we please have an official word if those affected by the unfair suspensions and rank removal will have their accounts un-suspended and rank given back, since support is not willing to help us.

I can imagine it'll go something like

[maartena]

To further the point, how can someone who has no rank to gain (being a R15 already) possibly farm rank? How can they gain renown to advance their player by rankfarming.

Assisting another player (that is grouped with you) to gain rank or voluntarily dying in succession to let a player from the opposite side gain rank is also not allowed. So the R15 player doesn't necessarily have to be the one gaining the ranks. To put it in popularized legal terms, he could be "aiding and abetting" a player to gain rank via a method that is considered rankfarming. In short, you could be an "accessory to rankfarming" and be banned under the current SSG policy regarding such.

[maartena]

Cordovan. Can we please have an official word if those affected by the unfair suspensions and rank removal will have their accounts un-suspended and rank given back, since support is not willing to help us.

Support has the final say in this matter.

The next step you can take is hiring a lawyer and sueing SSG to see if there are any leaks in their Terms of Service.

You should also know that discussing bans on the forums is already against the rules, so even this post could be considered for a forum ban or suspension for some time. Not trying to get you into trouble, just be careful with how far you take it, because if this topic gets out of hand it will be closed.... and that will certainly be the end of this matter.

[zaboch]

Support has the final say in this matter.

And yet, support has failed. The people that did get the ban might potentially also face a rank reset, because of an oversight by GMs.

Time and time again, players that have been banned did nothing against any rules, as I've known them all for a long while and will continue to fight on their behalf as long as possible.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

Support has the final say in this matter.

The next step you can take is hiring a lawyer and sueing SSG to see if there are any leaks in their Terms of Service.

You should also know that discussing bans on the forums is already against the rules, so even this post could be considered for a forum ban or suspension for some time. Not trying to get you into trouble, just be careful with how far you take it, because if this topic gets out of hand it will be closed.... and that will certainly be the end of this matter.

No

The next step is taking Cord's definition of rankfarming 1v1s and run with it.


Start reporting anyone who matches his criteria for "1v1 rankfarming" and watch the moors depopulate faster than Helm's Deep expansion release.

[maartena]

Time and time again, players that have been banned did nothing against any rules, as I've known them all for a long while and will continue to fight on their behalf as long as possible.

Even so, the forum isn't the right outlet to address it. If SSG support doesn't listen to your pleas, and they have determined the ban is final..... whining here isn't going to change that. At that point, you have 2 solutions:

1) Accept it and move on.

2) Hire a lawyer. Submit all the proof you have. Submit the ToS. Sue SSG. Have your day in court.

Likely #2 is going to result in a nice hefty lawyer bill, who before it even gets to court will tell you that the ToS are quite watertight and there isn't much they can do. But..... it MIGHT get to court, and you MIGHT get a small settlement in money for something your lawyer came up with.... but you can rest assured that this probably isn't going to get your account back.

Whether it is unjust in your eyes, or even unjust in a majority of the players.... doesn't matter. SSG owns your account and everything on it, and has the right to refuse service to you for any reason at any time.

[maartena]

No

The next step is taking Cord's definition of rankfarming 1v1s and run with it.

Start reporting anyone who matches his criteria for "1v1 rankfarming" and watch the moors depopulate faster than Helm's Deep expansion release.

Regardless of Cordovan's comments above, the official policy of what is rank farming still applies, and it reads:

“Rank Farming” is officially defined as the intentional surrender of your character to an enemy; resulting in a purposeful defeat and a gain of Infamy or renown to increase rank. Rank Farming is specific to Ettenmoors PvMP (Freep vs. Monster Player). The enemy can be controlled by any player - either the same player controlling the surrendering character, or someone else.
Participation in Rank Farming is an abuse of our game mechanics, and against our rules. Customer Service can identify this behavior and will take the appropriate action on both accounts involved, based on our findings. This activity can also be reported to the in-game staff for review.
This policy is effective immediately and is *not retroactive*. We will not be taking action on previous potential violations. Any reports filed should be of actions witnessed after the publication of this policy.
Please remember that we have multiple ways to verify players are participating in this behavior. Additionally, players who frequently report others falsely may also be subject to disciplinary action for harassment.

One should note that "participation" could be something as mundane as being GROUPED with people that are rankfarming. And if you threw a single heal onto one of the rank farmers, you participated.

Personally, I don't think this thread is getting anyone anywhere. It's probably likely to make the bans more permanent than they already were then before this thread, so I don't think anyone here is helping anyone.

[sapienze]

Assisting another player (that is grouped with you) to gain rank or voluntarily dying in succession to let a player from the opposite side gain rank is also not allowed. So the R15 player doesn't necessarily have to be the one gaining the ranks. To put it in popularized legal terms, he could be "aiding and abetting" a player to gain rank via a method that is considered rankfarming. In short, you could be an "accessory to rankfarming" and be banned under the current SSG policy regarding such.

Aside from the dying in succession part.

This person has essentially described any rank 15 who groups or leads in pvp. The rank 15 is assisting their group/raids effort to play pvp in the process, reach a higher rank. The rank 15 is aiding and abetting and is an accessory to their raid, as a leader, target caller, or scout. It is called cooperation and a rank 15 selflessly assumes those roles by choice with no personal gain.


You might want to take another stab at defining rankfarming. The one above is loaded with error.

[maartena]

Aside from the dying in succession part.

This person has essentially described any rank 15 who groups or leads in pvp. The rank 15 is assisting their group/raids effort to play pvp in the process, reach a higher rank. The rank 15 is aiding and abetting and is an accessory to their raid, as a leader, target caller, or scout. It is called cooperation and a rank 15 selflessly assumes those roles by choice with no personal gain.


You might want to take another stab at defining rankfarming. The one above is loaded with error.

My definition is clear: If two people are rank farming according to what is considered by SSG a bannable offense, and the person being banned is GROUPED with one of these individuals, they COULD be considered to be helping the rank farmers, such as healing or rezzing the person doing the rank farming.

It doesn't mean that the R15 guy actually "pulled the trigger" so to speak, but he may have been helping someone who WAS pulling the trigger.

Either way, I don't think the bans will be undone.... based on what I have seen in this topic so far.

[sapienze]

My definition is clear: If two people are rank farming according to what is considered by SSG a bannable offense, and the person being banned is GROUPED with one of these individuals, they COULD be considered to be helping the rank farmers, such as healing or rezzing the person doing the rank farming.

It doesn't mean that the R15 guy actually "pulled the trigger" so to speak, but he may have been helping someone who WAS pulling the trigger.

Either way, I don't think the bans will be undone.... based on what I have seen in this topic so far.

Actually it isn't, but you can spin it anyway you want to suit your opinion.

Your time spent pvping equals about the time it takes to watch a birthday candle burn down. Hardly enough to contribute to the thread or its purpose. I'm not even sure why you are in this thread other than to... You know, be relevant.

Anyway, have fun with that.

[LabadalofDorlomin]

EASY WAYS TO PREVENT RANK FARMING OR CLUBBING

• Mark any character who hits a certain ceiling point of renown in a 24hr period for investigation
• Check logs to see if the renown was made in a short period and also check the /loc logs to see if it was roving or in a single place **
• Either seal up places where farmers go out of the map to hide their farming or at least alarm the border to indicate who left.
• make these reports become the highest P1 ticket in order for GM to arrive in time to observe the issue in real time.
• THE EASIEST WAY THOUGH IS..... either remove F2P players access to Creeps or let them have access but make all the monsters cost a price and this price is for the character not the class.... which means you create a character buy purchasing it but then if you delete the character, you have to pay again.***

**Before anyone starts crying about legitimate 1v1 being in the same place.. you wouldn't be hitting a hard cap of renown by legitimate 1v1 in same place. If you do, then that is rank farming.
*** This stops cheats buying a class and exhausting the points from a character and then deleting it and making a new one. There has to be a financial block for every character purchased if you're allowing free players into the creep side and not the freep side.

[J-Moneyforever]

#BringBackLeaderboards

[Moorsfighter]

#BringBackLeaderboards

Signed

[SavileRow]

I say old bean, steady on!

[Cordovan]

No

The next step is taking Cord's definition of rankfarming 1v1s and run with it.


Start reporting anyone who matches his criteria for "1v1 rankfarming" and watch the moors depopulate faster than Helm's Deep expansion release.

My definition is the same as the actual definition, so you are talking about doing the same thing.

Re: the brief extra life marathon PvP time - being bad at a thing is not the same as deliberately working with another player to let the other person rank up by exploiting the mechanics of PvMP without actually playing the game as intended, then switch places and do the same thing to the other character (sometimes). While I was dying over and over, it was mostly because I was hanging out in multiple chat rooms. Also, I was actually pushing buttons and engaging in general gameplay.

This really isn't that complicated. If your purpose is to just stand there so someone else can level up deliberately, it's a violation of the rules. Whether it is being done in 1v1 or through some other method is irrelevant.

We also would never adjudicate moderation and disciplinary decisions on the forums, so no - under no circumstances would we provide further detail about a specific incident.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

My definition is the same as the actual definition, so you are talking about doing the same thing.

Re: the brief extra life marathon PvP time - being bad at a thing is not the same as deliberately working with another player to let the other person rank up by exploiting the mechanics of PvMP without actually playing the game as intended, then switch places and do the same thing to the other character (sometimes). While I was dying over and over, it was mostly because I was hanging out in multiple chat rooms. Also, I was actually pushing buttons and engaging in general gameplay.

This really isn't that complicated. If your purpose is to just stand there so someone else can level up deliberately, it's a violation of the rules. Whether it is being done in 1v1 or through some other method is irrelevant.

We also would never adjudicate moderation and disciplinary decisions on the forums, so no - under no circumstances would we provide further detail about a specific incident.

From the outside looking at the situation though, the situation isn't so clear. There exist a lot of situations (due to the balance being the way it is now) that could easily be twisted into "these people are rankfarming" due to people dying repeatedly without having any chance at performing any actions.


If I repeatedly wander out of grams and get 1-shot by the same burg without having a chance to respond... is it rankfarming?
It could or could not. Perhaps I have the intention of fighting him but just can't, or I am intentionally feeding him points.

If I repeatedly lose a 1v1 at one of the traditional 1v1 locations in the same manner, is it rankfarming? It could or could not.


People really are jumpy now due to the ambiguities of something that historically was pretty unambiguous. The chilling effect is real.