Epic Vol 3 story question

[Edelhardt]

*** SPOILERS AHEAD ***



Hi, I've been doing the Volume 3 Epic quest line in Rohan again, on an alt. When going through the story I realise that I actually still don't understand the story of the mysterious foe that we are pursuing. He is obviously some kind of traitor from what we learn in Edoras. We follow him to Stoke, then find out that he has killed a guard there and has perhaps ran off to Woodhurst. However, when we get there we don't actually hear more about him. There is some talk about enemies in the Mead Hall and we are asked to kill some Dunlendings. So what is the solution to the story? Is the mysterious foe some Dunlending or what? Does anyone have ideas about this?

[TesalionLortus]

I don't really remember much of it but from what I remember of how I approached this in the past - 1) sure, it ends here I think, so that's kind of unpolished? 2) on the other hand, Rohan is just infiltrated on so many fronts that this wouldn't be the only spy out there, so the open-ended "they could have been working for the benefit of any of these white hand/mordor aligned baddies" isn't that bad either and there is a lot of backstabbing in this part of Rohan, after all, so the end of the trail may very well be the indication of his allegiance in the area

As a bonus, 3) they might as well be the spy that will pop up much later prior to Pelennor

second bonus, albeit this one not originally intended: 4) might as well be related to the Rohan stuff from Bingo's storyline, the mysterious strange group of Cult of the Blood Eye not exactly aligned with any one party and the apparent significance (power?) of the Rothstone - which was all left open-ended and very unclear too, would love it to come back someday, might be even just re-introduced in main storylines as long as it doesn't reference these past events in any major way and the stuff in Bingo could be just read as a background cameo chapter

[Halphast]

Keep going. The Broadacres / Stonedeans have a bit of back and forth but eventually you learn who the traitor is and see the effects of their actions.

[TesalionLortus]

Keep going. The Broadacres / Stonedeans have a bit of back and forth but eventually you learn who the traitor is and see the effects of their actions.

Oh, I don't remember this. Which quest was it?

[CloudCastle]

I seem to recall MOL stating that the quest chain was never actually completed. Not sure if we are talking about the same thing here though...is there more than one betrayer plot line in Rohan?

[Edelhardt]

The one I mean starts in Edoras where you find several suspicious things and persons, and then you interrogate some locals who give amusingly different descriptions of the suspect. Later you find a clue and go to Stoke where eventually it turns out that the traitor has moved on to Woodhurst. There the story fizzles out and I don't remember it ever being resolved, but it is years since I last did it before today.

I am only doing the Epic quest line (on a Valared toon) and I've already reached Helm's Deep so unsure if it will be resolved in the Epics.

[Polymachos]

Keep going. The Broadacres / Stonedeans have a bit of back and forth but eventually you learn who the traitor is and see the effects of their actions.

There are (at least) two traitors in West Rohan, actually three if you count in the assassin who killed Leofdag, one of the riders four, in the battle of Helms Deep. Of the other two, the first one is the changeling from Edoras, whose story somehow has no proper ending, and the other one has his home in the north of the Broadacres.


Greetings, Polymachos

[Edelhardt]

Thank you all. It sounds as if this mystery will remain a mystery then. Still, since the guy killed the guard at Stoke it would be nice to see some justice done. Perhaps he met his fate in one of the battles in Rohan.

[Karou32]

Actually the traitor storyline gets resolved eventually, however the resolution was made out of necessity due to circumstances and it was wrapped up rather "clumsily", though that wasn't MoL's fault.

Back in the day the zone designer of Broadacres wanted to "kill" Reeve Frithild of Stokes, an integral part of the Epic by treason and didn't consult with MoL. This is why the pacing in Broadacres and Stonedeans is lackluster and you "discover" Herubrand in Woodhurst twice, once for the Epic and once again for the side quest.

Because all these treasons made Rohan look like it's full of traitors, MoL decided to shelf the plot for a while:

“… Think of this as a deleted scene, considering that it didn’t survive to the final cut of the Epic.

The Man With the Blood Eye Brooch was recruited by Grima in furtherance of Saruman’s plans for the Kingdom of Rohan, alongside some others (who you root out while working in Edoras). Unlike those allies of Wormtongue, however, this man’s true allegiance is to Sauron and the Black Numenoreans who follow him — his loyalty is unknown to Grima, though Saruman would have been able to discern it fairly easily. The extent of this man’s evil is rather deeper than most of Wormtongue’s lackeys, as is his cleverness, and he has a glut of false names he uses as he travels: Ednoth, Góding, Ianbert, Merewit.

The player loses his trail after the town of Stoke, partly due to his ability to travel safely among the Uruks, but also because he can blend into the populace of Rohan, given his similar complexion. As a result, he easily joins the defenders at Helm’s Deep, and would be one of the characters players interact with during the preparations for defending the Hornburg. Players would piece together his identity shortly after the fighting begins, and we would have gotten some tension out of the knowledge that someone on our side of the wall is working for the Enemy to sabotage the defence. When Gimli is separated from our heroes and ends up in the Glittering Caves, the idea had been that Our Traitor would be there with him, getting ready to stab him in the back when the opportunity presented itself. Obviously the attempt on Gimli would fail, but the traitor would have managed to slay some other defenders in the attack."

The Battle of the Pelennor Fields solves this issue by combining the above information (we see Leofdag dead inside Helm's Deep) which is now inferred and the instance where we face Crumgam. MoL combined all the stories and resolved them in one go: That Rohirrim traitor was the one to kill Leofdag and was an underling of Crumgam, the nemesis of Fastred.

[TesalionLortus]

“… Think of this as a deleted scene, considering that it didn’t survive to the final cut of the Epic.

The Man With the Blood Eye Brooch was recruited by Grima in furtherance of Saruman’s plans for the Kingdom of Rohan, alongside some others (who you root out while working in Edoras). Unlike those allies of Wormtongue, however, this man’s true allegiance is to Sauron and the Black Numenoreans who follow him — his loyalty is unknown to Grima

Well, this is interesting, I completely forgot this traitor storyline involved a brooch. Turns out it was never specifically said Blood Eye in this older storyline, I think, except for these snippets:

"I believe he may have worn a red brooch around his neck. The setting was gold, or very polished bronze, but the gem in the middle glowed red in the light of dawn."

"He wore a brooch at his neck, fastened with a clasp. I saw the gemstone in its centre glinting as he ran.
'It put me in mind of a blood-red eye."

But it does mention it's similar to a blood-red eye and sounds like it's the same kind of brooch as was introduced later in Bingo.





This knowledge makes it easy to claim the Cult of the Blood Eye stuff from Bingo were just Mordor spies. But then again, it's still weird, because there are all these weird things pointed out and some weird inconsistencies in this tale:




BLOOD EYE BROOCH "The red gem in the centre of the brooch shines dully."
The brooch contains a red gem, and reminds you of the Rothstone


Why Rothstone? Something that's been somewhere in Eriador and that's quite a distance?




'This cursed man attacked me with an axe. He was one of ours; he was! What a laugh that is! He had a strange look in his eye. Desperation, I think it was. He stole my plunder, all I had: a bag of dirty coins.

Backstabbing an orc but this orc was clearly surprised.




Sneering Uruk: 'I saw this man. He tried to buy the loyalty of my boys with a sack of dirty coins, but we refused. We might both serve the Blood Eye, but I know if our spots were reversed, that maggot would not give us a second look. Let him die on his own in the High Knolls! He will have none of our protection.

This was a White Hand camp and this is a White Hand Uruk at that. Sure, technically, Isengard and Mordor are allies so far, but it's a bit strange for Saruman's commander to just claim he serves Mordor/Sauron, no? Unless, for some reason, he is somehow a part of this "Cult of the Blood Eye" network and it's something else entirely, in a way, that's beyond the 'national' (Isengard/Mordor) differences? I can't find it now, but I believe it was actually pointed out how strange it was these men collaborated with both Mordor and White Hand orcs, even though there are these differences and hostilities between the two sides.




Even in death, the cultist reaches for the brooch of the Blood Eye lying next to him in the snow. You wonder if the man believed his actions had been worthwhile in the end, but the only certainty is that he will not be able to tell you the answer.
You pick up the brooch and marvel at its similarity to the Rothstone

Again, the Rothstone, and if these were supposed to be men of Rohan in their appearance, as was previously implied, not some hardcore spy types out of Mordor, this is all very strange, IMO, that kind of... devotion? To a gem? And similarity to Rothstone? It's worth pointing out this man, at this point, was willing to just backstab his orc allies, and move forward though the snow as if he was in a hurry on some kind of important errand rather than... idk, just stick around, with one group of these orcs, for better or worse, since they weren't particularly hostile and some of them clearly treated him as "one of ours"

[TesalionLortus]

One more thing: the Rothstone was called "the Skorgrim's Star" by the Dourhands chasing Spalvi and it was evidently framed as a dwarven artifact of some kind? So even weirder that the connection to the Cult of the Blood Eye and their gems is pointed out.

[Edelhardt]

This is all very interesting! I had no idea that this story line spans the Epic quests, the side quests and Bingo Boffin's adventures. No wonder I couldn't work out why it seemed to end so suddenly.

The last time I levelled up a character through Rohan is about 7 years ago and I have forgotten much about it. Just running the Epic now with my Valared character only gives a partial view of what is going on. Thanks for the explanations!