Petition: Remove the Orc Rude Emote

[elvyen]

You may be getting my request confused with the ever popular video games/violence debate.

I've asked for the emote to be removed because of it's graphic sexual nature and because of the way in which it is often abused. I find it very distasteful and I'd like to see it replaced with a different rude emote that does not directly combine sex and violence. That is the request.

Here are some things I've not done:
1: I've not claimed that people who use the emote are bad people.
2: I've not made any connections between in game behavior and the real world.
3: I've not indicated that I'm upset, mentally distressed, or tramautized by the emote.
4: I've not threated to rage quit, start legal action, or engage in terrorist activities.
5: I've not said or done anything that threatens people's rights as protected on the US Constitution.
6: I've not issued a complaint, rather a request as is appropriate for this board.

If people want to pull the real world into the debate or engage in fantasies about my mental condition that is their prerogative.
Despite the numerous read herrings the request is now, and will always be, the expression of a preference.
Anyone who wants to make it more than that is on their own.

I consider your position a little ...off in a couple ways.

1.) It seems to me you are not making a simple, benign statement of opinion.

You titled your thread a petition. Why?
Many might see that as an attempt to gather sufficient /signed support and concensus to cause the action to be taken.

Can you see how people may understandably feel threatened by that?, people who may not share your views; people who may feel that the removal of the emote would be a unnecessary, unreasonable action to take.

2.) I almost see the position that you have oft restated here as hyperbole.
To repeatedly, definitively condemn a simple animation as only an explicit reference to sexual violence seems a bit ...unreasonable.
Again, I think language like that is a bit too strong to qualify as a simple harmless statement of your opinion.
It might almost have an accusatory tone.
_
As i stated in my earlier post in this thread, some may view this emote purely as an irreverent, rude, orc-ish taunt to one's enemies, that fits what they see as the personality of their orc character (akin to the offensive crudity displayed by the orcs in the novels).---

Again, I think the fault in this particular instance may lie in the individual's actions, not the emote's existence.

This person made sure to simulate a forced, sexual humiliation?
Yeah, understandably offensive. (In my opinion, it crossed the line.)
So, get a screen of it, and report it. It could be decided that it was a violation of the CoC.
Yeah folks do stuff like that all the time, as people have said here, but who knows where the devs might draw the lines. We're under their laws here, via the CoC.

But dont start petitions and try to take away people's in-game options because of your opinion, or because of one persons misuse of an emote.

[Overtone]

It's an emote, and as a result, I could care less if it's in the game or not. Take it out. Leave it in. I won't notice either way.

[Redbeaver]

this is ridicolous. im all for women equality and all those stuff. sure.


but this is a video game, rated T (so if ur going to bring ur 14yr old playing this game, its ur responsibility to what she'll get exposed to in an online community, regardless what the box cover art looks like).


i'd say u /report the creep who's doing that - although, if he is doing it to be in character, i dont see why he should get banned. orc are filthy, disgusting evil creature made by a very evil entity. they SHOULD be rude. but yes, if u feel offended, just report it.

dont remove the emote altogether.


or u can just release. or if ur waitin for a rez and want to be rez, then hang in there for incharacter sake.


its an online video game and ur playing the most competitive content in it (pvp) so people will be rude; either inchar or in reality. it is a fact and there's not much u can do. u (and the other women u know that complains) should take it with a grain of salt and get over it.


lol


next topic: Petition: remove the /pushup emote coz it can be used on top of another doing /liedown and it would seems that they're having an intercourse on missionary position. OH NOES!!!!!! and while we're at it, remove /liedown too!!!
/sarcasm

[Karvainenmestari]

At the thread

[doug01]

Some people simply like the connotation that goes with the emote and the "feeling" they get when they can do it to someone without getting socially ostracized. "Hey is just a virtual game". This particular emote is a virtual expression specifically intended to humiliate other players sexually. There is absolutely no getting around that fact.

I guess who you are and what kinda of person you are will determine if you think its harmless/funny and whether or not it should stay or go.

Personally, I think it should go.

[musicman2000]

I see no place in this game for an emote that is an expression of sexual aggression, whether it is used/misused against another character or not.

The push up emote is a non-sexual emote being mis-used to feign sexual assault.
The hip thrust is a sexual emote from the outset.
That is a world of difference in my way of thinking.

If I were to translate the meaning of the emote into a phrase and post it on this forum as a response to your post I'd be banned.
I find that odd.

The above are a few highlights from reading the thread that I think are the most relevant to this discussion.

I believe that it could be stated correctly as fact as Wargfoot has done that the orc/urruk /rude emote is the only inherently sexual emote in game. Pushups, and even the warg peeing emote are not inherently sexual but can be used as such. So let's start from this basis which isn't subjective at all -- the orc/urruk /rude emote is absolutely and factually an inherently sexual emote that is in no way shape or form benign or innocently misinterpreted by the OP or others sharing his view.

So let's go further -- is this emote befitting an orc or urruk? Well....I believe we could say absolutely. In fact -- I think it's for that reason that it was included in the game by the devs. If an orc or urruk was making a rude gesture -- this action would be up in the top of their list I'd wager.

So where does this leave us? Yes I get that it's used in a way to grief people -- I'm actually very sympathetic to the OP and my initial reaction is to absolutely agree. Let's replace the emote -- but this is where I get stumped.

What would we replace it with?

At the end of the day at the most I could see this emote bringing up some minor disgust the first few times you see it, but remember. It's an orc or an urruk. They are disgusting after all! They are at war with you and are intentionally trying to humiliate you for losing morale and being shamed and cowering in fear. Quite frankly what they probably would do with you cowering there in front of you is simply behead you -- from that vantage point this is probably better.

I agree with others - the usage of it was too graphic, and that usage ought to be monitored. It's a shame to see someone offended by a video game -- but here's the clincher for me personally:

In my view it's actually more offensive to see a freep doing pushups on an orc/urruk than to see a creep orc/urruk /rude a freep. It's offensive to me because it makes no sense in my view of middle earth. Similarly if an orc/urruk does this to me and it upsets me -- I pay em back the good old fashioned way. Find em and chase em down until they are dead sir =P No corpse jumping, no pushups. Just an orc on their face and renown on my screen.

So after considering all sides and reading the thread I say keep the emote as it is -- it really is true to the character that's using it. Being offended by it is similar in my view to being offended when watching a movie and seeing a serial killer kill someone -- well he IS a serial killer, that sort of is what he does -- why the surprise? They ARE orcs/urruks -- they aren't exactly the elves next door -- killing them will put an end to the pelvic thrusts.

For what it's worth -- I did give the OP + rep, this was a good discussion by many people. Good reading actually.

[GutPunch]

This thread is a great microcosm into the world we find ourselves living in...

Its called Personal Responsibility. You are offended by someone else. You have two choices:

1) Ignore the person. Hey people this is a game. I'm sorry that you take this game so seriously that you are offended by rapidly refreshing pixels on a screen. Perhaps grow some thicker skin? Maybe choose to go as far as release and go to the circle.

2) If you can't take the fact that people get competitive and do stupid things, don't play PvMP. Its no different than playing or watching sports. Instead of demanding that everyone around you changes to accept your values, grow up and deal with it yourself. In life you find people can be jerks. But you have to make the choice to stop giving them the power to make you mad. Changing the entire landscape of a video game or a sports game because you are offended does speak volumes about you.

[Primrosy]

You may be getting my request confused with the ever popular video games/violence debate.

I've asked for the emote to be removed because of it's graphic sexual nature and because of the way in which it is often abused. I find it very distasteful and I'd like to see it replaced with a different rude emote that does not directly combine sex and violence. That is the request.

So first, I'd like to say I have seen your point, I recognize it as valid, and do not wish to provoke a sense of me dismissing you outright. That being said, I disagree with the request to remove it from the game. And here's why...

You deem it as "graphic sexual nature." It's true that this can easily be interpreted as such, it might also not come across as such to certain people. There is no data to support what percentage of the population that think a hip thrust is sexual against the ones that don't. You asked for a situation where a hip thrust is not insinuated as sexual. Dancing is an example I can think of, such as This Video. Another example would be celebration, (similar or equel to the intent of hip-thrust dancing). I see no sexual connotation depending to what degree the hip thrust is incorperated with other elements (ex. crotch grabbing, or doing it right behind a female (especially one bending over) or even a male for that matter.) It's important to disclaim that this is my opinion, and that's entirely the flaw with your premise, is that it's subjective. Hip thrusting is not always sexual, though it quite often can be.

The second point follows up on the previous paragraph, if hip thrusts are not always sexual, then the orc hip thrust, demonstrated below: (skip to 1:20)



could or could not be considered sexual in an act on its own. Once again, this is subjective, we've already discussed a few situations (also subjective) where hip thrusts are not sexual. So does this mean that hip thrusting in someone's face is not vulgar (simulating oral sex) and thus innapropriate? Of course it's vulgar, this means that the emote does have the POTENTIAL to be vulgar and thus its existance provides opportunity to offend.

I submit that just because there's potential does not mean that removal is necessary. I'm going to try my best not to use red herrings here...to an extreme we can say guns have the potential to kill people. Therefore guns should be outlawed. This is a popular topic obviously but it's a little extreme for our case here, it is also a fallacy of moral equivalancy. So let's try to bring it down a notch

Talking. Talking in and by itself is an innocent act. However, as you have stated...

If I were to translate the meaning of the emote into a phrase and post it on this forum as a response to your post I'd be banned.
I find that odd.

When misused, talking can get you banned (as in terms of the CoC of Turbine.) Indeed, some of the most heinous and evil things in history have been done through the power of speech (see: Hitler, or in Tolkein Lore, see: Saruman).Does this mean that we should outlaw the use of speech because it has POTENTIAL to be misused? Of course not.

Once again...we may be comparing two unalike things, the orc emote does not have the eloquence and versatility of speech.

So let's equate the orc emote to the popular choice of the thread, the freep /pushup emote.

The /pushup emote is "innocent." Arguments can be made (and have been) that the orc /rude is also "innocent." When misused, they both can be vulgar and disgusting. I submit that you can not logically request the removal of the orc /rude emote without including the /pushup emote. Not to mention a slew of other emotes that can be misused to cause similar grief. Not to mention ones that flat out depict unsavory activities (drinking, smoking) even when being used in and by themselves.

If your argument is that the /rude emote is vulgar and should be removed on those grounds alone, you should have structured your OP in a different fashion (im being critical at this point, of course). You should have stated that the /rude is vulgar, explained how it is vulgar on its own, and then used the example of the defeated female toon as a supporting point to back up your argument. Instead, you stated that the example is vulgar and demonized the source, not the product (emote + emoter's intentions + recipients reaction).

Therefore that while I agree this was an example of the emote being misused to create something vulgar, and you have every right to express concern (not unrest, theres a difference), I do not find your argument strong enough to necessitate your proposal. I do not find your suggestion out of line, but I did feel a desire to attempt and refute it. If you are worried about your 14 year old daughter witnessing such things, I'm sorry, and I do believe you should report the person who did it with proof of a screen shot to Turbine for abuse. What's more is I don't think that you can actively shelter children, especially teenagers, from this kind of thing forever. It might be a good idea (and I'm not trying to tell you how to raise your kids, this is just a suggestion as I'm not a parent) to have a discussion with her to make sure she understands what she's seeing and the context, and you can then project your own values of whether this is acceptable behavior or not, even in the virtual world.

Cheers

P.S.

Releasing IS an option. For those that argue they are sticking around for renown, or a rez, I would stress that emotes are strictly an out of combat activity. If there's no combat going on...you aren't gaining renown anyway...and if you're waiting for a minstrel to come from somewhere to rez you (one that likely just died a few seconds ago) I would say you're either "spying" (which could be just an innocent act of marking the position where creeps are...i.e. your dead body) or you're selfish because you arent running back from the rez circle with your minstrel buddy. I realize there are other cases where a minstrel might be coming to rez you as well, but there are few instances where you NEED to stay in your body and in a position where an orc has the opportunity to /rude your face.

[Celestrata]

Just to make a note here for everyone, I've had to sweep through and remove more than a few trolls from this discussion.

Trolling and insulting others is not welcome here. Doing so is a violation of the community guidelines and will earn you an infraction.

Please remember to be respectful of others and polite when discussing things on the forums, even if you may not agree with the post.

[Wargfoot]

You deem it as "graphic sexual nature." It's true that this can easily be interpreted as such, it might also not come across as such to certain people. There is no data to support what percentage of the population that think a hip thrust is sexual against the ones that don't.

I'll grant that you're an honest person and allow you to do a little test.
Contact 10 people in your peer group (ages 15+) and ask them what the emote connotates.
If more than one person doesn't ascribe sexual overtones to it I'll drop the whole issue.

I think that if we establish that at least 90% of the people in your peer group understand it that way then the whole "dancing/celebration/epileptic seizure" train of thought is really rather ridiculous. Clearly the rest of the community (those who've responded thus far) view it that way and that is the only group that really matters.

So let's equate the orc emote to the popular choice of the thread, the freep /pushup emote.

You've not established that they are equivalent.

The first clue that they are not equivalent would be one is actually called /rude.
The second clue that they are not equivalent would be the numerous responses in this thread (pro and con) that admit to the sexual nature of the emote. Out of the hundreds of people who've read this thread you are the first to suggest it doesn't have sexual connotations and you've no evidence that it isn't viewed that way by a vast majority of players.

The /pushup emote is "innocent." Arguments can be made (and have been) that the orc /rude is also "innocent."

Arguments have been made that the emote doesn't matter; however, you are the first to suggest (and have not demonstrated) that it isn't sexual.
Again, I'll recommend you to the challenge at the beginning of this rebuttle.
Good luck with that.

Not to mention a slew of other emotes that can be misused to cause similar grief. Not to mention ones that flat out depict unsavory activities (drinking, smoking) even when being used in and by themselves.

This is an important point.
The game is rated 'T' for Teens with a description: Violence, Smoking, Drinking.
The 'T' rating says nothing about sex.

So while you may say that smoking and drinking are unsavory, they are a part of the warning on the product.

If your argument is that the /rude emote is vulgar and should be removed on those grounds alone, you should have structured your OP in a different fashion (im being critical at this point, of course). You should have stated that the /rude is vulgar, explained how it is vulgar on its own, and then used the example of the defeated female toon as a supporting point to back up your argument. Instead, you stated that the example is vulgar and demonized the source, not the product (emote + emoter's intentions + recipients reaction).

This would make sense; however, everyone knows what it means as demonstrated by those that responded to the thread thus far. I think the claim that the emote is fundamentally sexual in nature is simply indisputable.

I do believe you should report the person who did it with proof of a screen shot to Turbine for abuse. What's more is I don't think that you can actively shelter children, especially teenagers, from this kind of thing forever. It might be a good idea (and I'm not trying to tell you how to raise your kids, this is just a suggestion as I'm not a parent) to have a discussion with her to make sure she understands what she's seeing and the context, and you can then project your own values of whether this is acceptable behavior or not, even in the virtual world.

I don't care to report people because it would be a shame for someone to lose an account.
If it remains in the game, I will not be reporting it - it's too easy to abuse the reporting mechanism, for example, if an Orc merely runs by (or through) a dead Freep a carefully planned screenshot could make it look like something it's not.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply, unfortunately, it hinges entirely on the premise that the emote isn't fundamentally sexual and that's a tough sell.

[azahran]

Last night a human woman was defeated near Tirith Rhaw.
She assumed the death pose while the battle raged on.
An orc ran up to her and did the rude emote, which was hip thrustiing, thereby simulating an oral sex act.

I was in vent with the target.
All of the women in vent at the time expressed a great deal of disgust.
They endure getting ganked, steamrolled, and corpse jumped on a nightly basis and keep coming back so these aren't wall flowers.
That just happens to be one emote that really generates level of disgust - and understandibly so.

I'm not interested in players getting banned.
The emote needs to go.
It can be replaced with something fun.

Yea... ummmm Orcs are Orcs... and its a /RUDE emote, want them to hand you flowers or something? FFS, its a punk behind a screen across the world.

Ones man trash is another mans treasure. Relevance? Your upset by it make it trash but im sure the guy doing it finds it to be funny. Get over yourself.

[Wargfoot]

This thread is a great microcosm into the world we find ourselves living in...

Its called Personal Responsibility. You are offended by someone else. You have two choices:

1) Ignore the person. Hey people this is a game. I'm sorry that you take this game so seriously that you are offended by rapidly refreshing pixels on a screen. Perhaps grow some thicker skin? Maybe choose to go as far as release and go to the circle.

2) If you can't take the fact that people get competitive and do stupid things, don't play PvMP. Its no different than playing or watching sports. Instead of demanding that everyone around you changes to accept your values, grow up and deal with it yourself. In life you find people can be jerks. But you have to make the choice to stop giving them the power to make you mad. Changing the entire landscape of a video game or a sports game because you are offended does speak volumes about you.

#3: Suggest a change to the game in the the suggestion forum.

[Ugmo]

I don't go into the moors on my freep (too low level to survive), but I have had this emote done to me on my creep after I did the /sit emote while waiting for freeps to show up. I went to get something to drink and when I came back someone was going nuts doing this emote to my toon.

Personally, I just try to remember there are immature people throughout the world...many of them have never seen a naked female yet, so this type of stuff is what they find entertaining. I watched to see how long this would actually entertain him for (it was much longer than I expected), and went about my business. Not offended, not disgusted, just amused at how immature some people are.

You can always find things to offend you...generally the best bet is just to ignore them, and this includes immature people in a game who do stupid things.

I do think you did a good job on this thread. People always have the right to make suggestions when they think something should be changed. You layed out your suggestion, gave your reasoning behind it, and remained respectful and focused while responding without getting wound up and turning into a flame fest. That's always nice to see.

[Primrosy]

I'll grant that you're an honest person and allow you to do a little test.
Contact 10 people in your peer group (ages 15+) and ask them what the emote connotates.
If more than one person doesn't ascribe sexual overtones to it I'll drop the whole issue.

I think that if we establish that at least 90% of the people in your peer group understand it that way then the whole "dancing/celebration/epileptic seizure" train of thought is really rather ridiculous. Clearly the rest of the community (those who've responded thus far) view it that way and that is the only group that really matters.

While I think that this is important data for the sake of this argument, I respectfully decline, and not because I'm trying to avoid being proved wrong, I'm human and therefore have flaws, but for two reasons...

1. It's not my job to collect data to prove what percentage of people (and my social group is a very small percentage of people in the grand scheme of things, and as you later described anyway, irrelivent to the purpose of the poll, because they don't even play the game) finds hip thrusting to be "sexual." Since this is your proposal, I think that task falls onto you.

2. I can't even ask people in game because I don't even play lotro atm, indeed this was just a freak accident of my chancing by the forums to check things out as I tend to do from time to time.

3. (I thought of a 3rd) Refuting you isn't so important to me to warrent such an investigation. I have many things on my plate, the orc /rude emote isn't much of a priority.

Again, not to dismiss you or your argument, but my post was obviously mostly subjective, like yours, and like pretty much everyone else's post in this thread. You may take that as me conceding if you'd like, though I still disagree with the suggestion.

You've not established that they are equivalent.

The first clue that they are not equivalent would be one is actually called /rude.
The second clue that they are not equivalent would be the numerous responses in this thread (pro and con) that admit to the sexual nature of the emote. Out of the hundreds of people who've read this thread you are the first to suggest it doesn't have sexual connotations and you've no evidence that it isn't viewed that way by a vast majority of players.

I recognize the validity of this point. I did not provide evidence that hints at any direct percentage. I did only state that there are those who would see it as "sexual" and by extension "vulgar" (if they chose to see it that way) and there are those that won't. This thread is a good place to draw a representative percentage, but I still believe that the premise of this point remains valid.

This is an important point.
The game is rated 'T' for Teens with a description: Violence, Smoking, Drinking.
The 'T' rating says nothing about sex.

So while you may say that smoking and drinking are unsavory, they are a part of the warning on the product.

You see this is an important point, one that helps your argument tremendously, I throw out my smoking/drinking emote argument. However you've left out one crucial point, Lotro is an online game, and ALL online games also come with an Online Rating Notice, which the ESRB website describes as:

"Online Rating Notice
Online-enabled games carry the notice "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB." This notice warns those who intend to play the game online about possible exposure to chat (text, audio, video) or other types of user-generated content (e.g., maps, skins) that have not been considered in the ESRB rating assignment."

Emotes would be interactions in the form of chat, no? Possibly coupled with video.

[Wargfoot]

You see this is an important point, one that helps your argument tremendously, I throw out my smoking/drinking emote argument. However you've left out one crucial point, Lotro is an online game, and ALL online games also come with an Online Rating Notice, which the ESRB website describes as:

"Online Rating Notice
Online-enabled games carry the notice "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB." This notice warns those who intend to play the game online about possible exposure to chat (text, audio, video) or other types of user-generated content (e.g., maps, skins) that have not been considered in the ESRB rating assignment."

Emotes would be interactions in the form of chat, no? Possibly coupled with video.

I knew this one was coming.

The distinction between what is built into the game and what is the result of other players is important.
The 'T' rating applies to the built in features.
The ESRB warning covers what people may do with those features.

It is exactly this that differentiates the /pushup emote from the orc's /rude emote.

The /pushup emote is clearly within the bounds of the 'T' rating so the packaging is accurate there.
The misuse of the /pushup emote would be covered by the ESRB warning so again the packaging is accurate.

The orc /rude emote is universally understood to be sexual and it is a built in component of the game therefore it fails the 'T' rating (in my opinion). By itself it would tolerable, but when combined with other conditions in the game it gets disgusting (in my opinion).

Now the argument could be made that only those who abuse the emote in the way described should be banned; however, I really hate using a ban (loss of hundreds of hours of work) to solve a problem that could be solved with an entirely new and fun emote. If I were Turbine I'd offer up 3 different options and have people vote on it. I think the butt waggle from Braveheart would be hysterically funny (and rude) without offering itself up to the same criticism as the current emote.

[Primrosy]

I knew this one was coming.

The distinction between what is built into the game and what is the result of other players is important.
The 'T' rating applies to the built in features.
The ESRB warning covers what people may do with those features.

It is exactly this that differentiates the /pushup emote from the orc's /rude emote.

The /pushup emote is clearly within the bounds of the 'T' rating so the packaging is accurate there.
The misuse of the /pushup emote would be covered by the ESRB warning so again the packaging is accurate.

The orc /rude emote is universally understood to be sexual and it is a built in component of the game therefore it fails the 'T' rating (in my opinion). By itself it would tolerable, but when combined with other conditions in the game it gets disgusting (in my opinion).

Excellent points. I think this back and forth is moving the discussion forward, no? Perhaps to come to a mutual agreement?

Anyway, the entire premise is, of course that the emote is sexual. Something that hasn't been completely proven either way, supported...yes...proven...no. It's important to make this distinction.

Now the argument could be made that only those who abuse the emote in the way described should be banned; however, I really hate using a ban (loss of hundreds of hours of work) to solve a problem that could be solved with an entirely new and fun emote. If I were Turbine I'd offer up 3 different options and have people vote on it. I think the butt waggle from Braveheart would be hysterically funny (and rude) without offering itself up to the same criticism as the current emote.

Just to play devil's advocate, wouldn't the braveheart butt waggle open up a whole new sleugh of vulgarity and abuse? After all...its a buncha dudes bending over, presenting their hind quarters, and bobbing up and down.... (fast forward to 2:40, sorry for bad quality).

Don't get me wrong, I think its good that you made a suggestion for a replacement...I just think it should be held to the same standards. Can you explain how it avoids the same problems as the first?

[Saylen]

/signed x 1 million

I didn't need to read the entire thread, just the first post and the few that followed were enough.

[Dankanthegood]

Some people simply like the connotation that goes with the emote and the "feeling" they get when they can do it to someone without getting socially ostracized. "Hey is just a virtual game". This particular emote is a virtual expression specifically intended to humiliate other players sexually. There is absolutely no getting around that fact.

I guess who you are and what kinda of person you are will determine if you think its harmless/funny and whether or not it should stay or go.

Personally, I think it should go.

Too much overanalyzing and overthinking over a simple thing as an emote in a game, i guess some people are strange

Its simple, its a game, its not rl, oh dear

[Gladgilrian]

I disagree that Orc/Uruk rude is sexual, maybe they are all just Triple H fans.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckm5Oy227UA

....and on the subject of "protecting the children"......You do realize that this is a game that glorifies binge drinking every, single festival, and what about that "weed" those Hobbits are smoking? What would you rather have you child exposed to? A monster doing something rude or seeing binge drinking glorified? Something that does REAL harm, something that isn't just "suggestive" like the Orc/Uruk rude emote, but blatant. While we're on the subject of Uruks, maybe their bare chest could lead the youngsters to consider "alternative lifestyles", heaven forbid!!!

[Robek]

I'll grant that you're an honest person and allow you to do a little test.
Contact 10 people in your peer group (ages 15+) and ask them what the emote connotates.
If more than one person doesn't ascribe sexual overtones to it I'll drop the whole issue.

This is not a good way of testing it. The moment you ask the question, the person will probably overthink and see the bad connotation.

I don't have an answer on how to test it. And to be honest, I go with that saying "I can't really describe it, but I know it when I see it...".

I agree with the poster that said that the emote on itself is not inappropriate. However its use may be. So the solution is to report the occurrence and let the GMs deal with it.

[Lathius]

Last night a human woman was defeated near Tirith Rhaw.
She assumed the death pose while the battle raged on.
An orc ran up to her and did the rude emote, which was hip thrustiing, thereby simulating an oral sex act.

I was in vent with the target.
All of the women in vent at the time expressed a great deal of disgust.
They endure getting ganked, steamrolled, and corpse jumped on a nightly basis and keep coming back so these aren't wall flowers.
That just happens to be one emote that really generates level of disgust - and understandibly so.

I'm not interested in players getting banned.
The emote needs to go.
It can be replaced with something fun.

There are alot of things in this world that are going to disgust you, but asking for a company or other entity to prevent anything that can be used to do so is a little much.

There are plenty of people that find it disgusting and plenty of others who find it humorous. Sorry, but people need to grow a thicker skin if they are offended by stuff like this in a video game and probably should tread carefully when turning on their tv.

[dadiro95]

Trolling and insulting others is not welcome here. Doing so is a violation of the community guidelines and will earn you an infraction.

I like how you used Trolling finally a blue name uses some common language.
P.S. that girl in the link a couple threads behind is hot... lol

[Sirandilas]

Orcs being rude and offensive who'd have thunk it?

Its funny that with all the discussion about how this emote should be removed because of its sexual nature no one has made a single mention about the bigger issues........violence, animal cruelty and racial intolerance

The whole game is based on the concept of inflicting death on wild animals and creatures/humans of other races. Not a swift humane death either, more a brutal pumelling with archaic weapons not to mention burning, electrocution, poison, traps etc. It is positively gruesome and is promoting a culture of killing for reward.

Behavior like this is the modern world would be unconscionable, leading to a lengthy prison sentence or even execution. Yet we condone and encourage it in game.

I think the time has come to put aside the violence and settle things in an adult fashion with open dialog and strongly worded condemnations. Let us put aside the sword and send this Sauron chappy and his minions a strongly worded letter of complaint.

Or is the message we are putting out here to the younger generation that suggestive sexual gestures are bad but beating seven shades of shinola out of some one with a 'Mace of Might" and then stripping their still warm corpse of anything of value is perfectly acceptable?

Sex = Bad
Violence = Good?

Just curious

[zantor]

Sorry you got humped in the face

Fixed:

Sorry you got humped in the face

[InnerPieces]

Or is the message we are putting out here to the younger generation that suggestive sexual gestures are bad but beating seven shades of shinola out of some one with a 'Mace of Might" and then stripping their still warm corpse of anything of value is perfectly acceptable?

The only thing I can agree with in your entire post is

I guess you're forgetting that it isn't a sexually suggestive emote that is the issue. The issue is the intentional misuse of a sexually suggestive emote to simulate forced sexual acts on whomever is on the other side of the screen. When I bought into the game, I knew there would be violence. I knew there would be alcohol and drug (despite calling it tobacco, we're not stupid) use. What I did not know was there would be rampant sexual assault if one choses to engage in any PvP. Does it happen all the time? Of course not. It happens at least once a day, from what I've seen.

I also doubt any player is an animal that was killed for their fur, food, or protection of sentient, humanoid beings. I doubt anyone playing has been killed and robbed of their things. It is highly likely someone playing the game has been mugged or robbed. Then again, violence is an intregral part of the game that anyone getting into it knows will occur. I am willing to bet (if the 1 in 4 statistic is correct) that plenty of women (and men for that matter) have been ????? or forced into some sexual situation, it is not an advertised part of the game, and whether you want to admit it (or obviously not admit it), can be traumatizing for those who have been victims of this type of violence.

So yeah, being "humped in the face" isn't always as innocent and harmless as the immature would have you believe.

That is the issue and is why the people who do it should be warned and then banned.

It's almost like you people are shrugging off forced sexual assault as if it's just a fact of life... no big deal. Yes, it's a game, but there are real, live people behind the screen. Maybe that's the real issue. People are so selfish with their instant, self-gratification, they can't take a second to consider anyone else.