Bought expansions....but i still have to pay for content?!? This is not right!

[Djwa]

I think people are missing the OP's point.

It's not "Why can't I have access when I don't subscribe anymore", it's the fact that he did pay for the expansion, and it still isn't unlocked.

More to the point, why was the $30 dollars for Moria less effective than the $30 for ROI.

The first expansion purchase (Moria) gives me ... no content unless I unlock it with points when I stop subscribing.

The second expansion purchase (ROI) unlocked all content in the expansion regardless of my subscription status.

It's the way they decided to go, I accept it and have unlocked the content with points, but you can't convince me it was fair.

[Vandervahn]

...
The first expansion purchase (Moria) gives me ... no content unless I unlock it with points when I stop subscribing. ...

Huh? thats the first time I hear this. I bought boxed Moria and currently I dont have a subscription. I have access to everything in Moria.

[Djwa]

Yeah, read his post again.

He was in the same situation as me - In since the beginning, bought all expansions with real money, but as soon as the f2p hit, you had to unlock that content if you stopped. You could certainly run through the zones and do the epic quest, but the bulk of the content was off limits, including skirmishes.

I know as it happened a couple of times when we'd forget to change card numbers and the sub would run out on the old one.

If you bought the box after f2p hit, I wouldn't doubt there were a different set of rules...

[Stubbins]

In since the beginning, bought all expansions with real money, but as soon as the f2p hit, you had to unlock that content if you stopped.

It sounds like the expansions at that time didn't include all the quest packs and skirmishes/raids etc like they do now.

I recently bought the RoI and Moria expansions and would have full access as a premium member.

I guess that is a bit unfair then for all the people who bought the expansions before they changed it.

Maybe there should be an option for these people to buy the quest packs/skirmishes/raids separately at a discounted price.

[Valiant_Turtle]

I'm guessing that when he said "all zones" the OP hadn't actually tried Moria or Mirkwood yet. I may be incorrect though. He really needs to verify that Moria and/or Mirkwood quests are not available.

I think that the LOTRO model is great, but it's quite bizarre and it seems to get more confusing with every update and expansion.

EDIT: If he doesn't have quest access in Moria/Mirk that is a bug and he should put in a ticket with Account Support. Giving them a call during business hours is also an option and most people report a good experience doing that.

[Hrodberht]

Yeah, read his post again.

He was in the same situation as me - In since the beginning, bought all expansions with real money, but as soon as the f2p hit, you had to unlock that content if you stopped. You could certainly run through the zones and do the epic quest, but the bulk of the content was off limits, including skirmishes.

I know as it happened a couple of times when we'd forget to change card numbers and the sub would run out on the old one.

If you bought the box after f2p hit, I wouldn't doubt there were a different set of rules...

You and he should both contact account support. If you bought the full MoM expansion (regardless of when) you should have access to all that expansion content, even when free or premium. Other players have had issues like this. A Moria key is a Moria key, if it shows on your account, you are supposed to have full access.

[defrule]

Bad comparison simply because Before if you stopped your subscription you got nothing......
Now with F2P you still get access to the base game the 3 zones areas and a way to earn in game TP to buy more.

Much like the non updated virus protection your answer was out of Date.

I know it's not a good comparison but it illustrates to me this. I was subscribing for virus definitions and when I stopped paying, I don't get the latest definitions.

With LOTRO, previously I stop subscribing and I lose access to the game, basically nothing. Now the question is, was I paying for access to the game? Or was I paying as a form of "rent" to the content?

When I subscribed to the game back in 2007, F2P was nowhere in sight. The concept of having to buy parts of the game again if I unsubscribed made no sense back then because if I didn't subscribe I couldn't play. The issue only became relevant when F2P came and it became unclear what subscribing really meant.

[wikjif]

I think Turbine/WB should have prorated the existing accounts with additional points from the get go.

Why? I mean, it would certainly have been a nice thing to do, but the existing players already got the service they paid for until that point. They then had the option to continue as before WITH 500TP allowance per month, or stop regular payments. Either choice is a win-win for the individual player.

Actually, they did give points during the transition for people that had subscriptions. In addition to giving 500 TP per month for the three months before F2P came out they gave out about 1k TP per year that someone had a subscription for plus extra for lifetimers and founders which all added up to about 5500 TP if you had been there since the beginning.

The only limitation that I remember was that you couldn't unsubscribe if you wanted at least some of the bonus points.

[Digital_Utopia]

I think people are missing the OP's point.

It's not "Why can't I have access when I don't subscribe anymore", it's the fact that he did pay for the expansion, and it still isn't unlocked.

More to the point, why was the $30 dollars for Moria less effective than the $30 for ROI.

The first expansion purchase (Moria) gives me ... no content unless I unlock it with points when I stop subscribing.

The second expansion purchase (ROI) unlocked all content in the expansion regardless of my subscription status.

It's the way they decided to go, I accept it and have unlocked the content with points, but you can't convince me it was fair.

Wait, what? The OP made only one post:

I have been playing since day 1. I have bought the base game, Moria and Mirkwood expansions all without using points. I was a vip client for the first 3 years.

I stopped playing for a year and started back up now as a free to play.

I noticed that in just about all zone besides the three starting ones, that i have to purchase to do quests and content...even my deeds will not expand from the slayer deeds to the advance slayer ones in all zones.

I think this is wrong! I have paid cash for all the original games and expansions but i am asked to pay again to play in them!

I have almost 5,000 points and was about to pay for the new expansion this way but i thought...wait...i already bought other ones, and what happens if i buy this one. will i also be asked to pay again for the quests in the new area that should be already part of my purchase.

Is my account corrupted or is this the way the new system works were anyone before the free to play system kicked in, has to pay again for content they already have paid for.

FG

Where does he say that he was unable to go to Moria or Mirkwood? The only examples he gives are the same drawbacks of going premium from VIP (unable to advance deeds to advanced, only the 4 zones), but doesn't specify one way or another whether he was able to go in Moria or Mirkwood. Probably because he's already past that point, and his complaints came from his experience with a new(er) character.

I'm sorry, but unless the OP actually specifies that he was unable to get quests in Moria or in Mirkwood, then I can't help but just assume he's digging up that same old complaint: Looping the base game in with the expansions, and complaining that they have to unlock SoA zones.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

I have been playing since day 1. I have bought the base game, Moria and Mirkwood expansions all without using points. I was a vip client for the first 3 years.

I stopped playing for a year and started back up now as a free to play.

I noticed that in just about all zone besides the three starting ones, that i have to purchase to do quests and content...even my deeds will not expand from the slayer deeds to the advance slayer ones in all zones.

You need to contact Account Support something has gone wrong with your account. Assuming you bought Mines of Moria and applied to your account before November 2010, you are supposed have access to Moria, Lothlorien and Mirkwood.

I think this is wrong! I have paid cash for all the original games and expansions but i am asked to pay again to play in them!

Online games have quite a sweet little racket here. You never buy any content under the standard Pay To Play model. It does not matter whether it WoW, Eve Online, Swtor or any of dozens of other games.

Instead what you buy is the right to create an account. The ability to put additions to your account that you do not own. They trick you by putting 30 days of game time in the box. Often they have 30 days of game time in the expansion boxes. You spend what 100 dollars on Swtor to get a fancy box. After 30 days you have nothing. EA games locks you out of the servers until you pay to rent access to the server.

They are too smart to sell you the box. Require us to pay fifteen dollars to pay the game for the first 30 days. That would make it clear you didn't get anything in that box other than manuals and physical items.

It is only when you get to a game like the current hybrid model for Lotro, you realize what kind of raw deal you got. Since you can not use your software without the access to the Lotro server software, Turbine (or Blizzard, CCP or EA Games) can do something that McAFee wishes they could do. Keep you from running the software.

Don't kid yourself, if McAfee could figure out how to do the Blizzard trick with their antivirus software they do it in a heart beat. This is why there is such a push towards cloud computing. That means the "Company" owns your data and the applications.

[Unique]

Think of it this way, if everyone who bought SoA got to keep all the content when they became premium that would equal...........a free lifetime account, now can you really say that is fair?

Look on the SoA box, it says you need a subscription to access the content, nothing changed in that model

But

In comes a SECOND payment option, play for free (which comes with it's own set of limitations)



It's up to you to choose which set of benefits or restrictions you want. You choose to not pay so you have to abide by the restrictions of the payment plan you choose. If you downgrade your cell plan you get less benefits even though you bought the phone.



Turbine choose to treat expansions differently from the main game so everyone who purchased them kept them and rightly so.

A very important distinction - nobody has ever bought any content, they have purchased temporary ACCESS (main game) or permanent ACCESS (Lifetime, Store bought quest pack, bundled deals with purchase of a package) to the content. You never have nor will you ever own any content.

Also SoA has been free since Moria came out so not everyone paid for the original game.

[KrisDW]

I actually made a thread like this when I restarted again in September. I guess it's a bit confusing at first, but when others explained it to me just like they did so well here, it quickly made sense to me! I'm guessing if the OP reads through this thread, he also will come to the same conclusion.

About the Moria issue, I'm confident that the OP has access to Moria just fine. I also had a boxed Mines of Moria pre-F2P and I had no problems accessing the Moria content. Like others stated, he's just running through the starter areas.

[Spordo]

With LOTRO, previously I stop subscribing and I lose access to the game, basically nothing. Now the question is, was I paying for access to the game? Or was I paying as a form of "rent" to the content?

This has got to be one of the biggest advantages of the F2P-model.

If you stop subscribing you still have access to unlocked content. If you were currently questing in an area when your subscription runs out, you can still access the content you were working on, just unable to get more quests and deeds unless you re-subscribe or purchase the area/content with TP.

When I subscribed to the game back in 2007, F2P was nowhere in sight. The concept of having to buy parts of the game again if I unsubscribed made no sense back then because if I didn't subscribe I couldn't play. The issue only became relevant when F2P came and it became unclear what subscribing really meant.

Subscribing still unlocks all the content that was originally available to subscribers. Expansions are never included in any of the other popular MMO's on the market today. You have to buy the expansions and subsequently subscribe to have access to the content you "bought". I fail to see how that is any different here.

[criosdaidh22]

lol this is one of the oldest controversies since free to play and it is also quite illustrative of how people don't actually read anothers points/concerns/arguments before responding with their pre-programed propaganda.

There is no logical argument that those who purchased SoA before F2P and those who started after F2P got a fair deal between them.

For less than 60 bucks worth of points I have unlocked every single questing area and feature in the original SoA. If I was a loyal subscriber up to a year before F2P I paid something for the original game and 15 bucks a month which could come out to be well over 200 bucks. Unless I am avid about using destiny points or monster play (sucks) then I could have unlocked a ton of stuff with that 200 bucks in points.

Anyone who subscribes today gets 500 points or something like that per month. So.....

To even remotely say someone who purchased SoA at any time and anyone who subscribed before F2P didn't get the short end of the stick is an outright LIE. To even remotely say they didn't get shafted for being a loyal subscriber before F2P Turbine would have had to award them the appropriate points per month that they would have accumulated over those loyal subscriptions.

The simple FACT of the matter is if you joined after F2P you get stuff for free that the rest of us paid 60 bucks for at launch. You can also use 60 bucks which is what we spent at launch and basicly unlock the entire SoA game for free. Which I remind you we paid 60 bucks just for the option to PAY for again as a subscription fee. During those subscriptions we didn't accumulate free points at all nor did we get retroactive points for any deeds/etc that we did during that time.

You can't actually argue that being a subscriber before F2P or becoming 1 after doesn't yield a better bang for your buck without looking like a complete and total idiot. With the money I spent on my primary account over the years I could have unlocked every single feature in this game 3 times over and still had thousands of points left over for cosmetics etc, not to mention I would have been accumulating 500 pts per month all that time AND accumulating free points from deeds etc.

People who joined after F2P are not getting a completely and utterly better deal than loyal past subscribers = really dumb argument.

[Unique]

lol this is one of the oldest controversies since free to play and it is also quite illustrative of how people don't actually read anothers points/concerns/arguments before responding with their pre-programed propaganda.

There is no logical argument that those who purchased SoA before F2P and those who started after F2P got a fair deal between them.

For less than 60 bucks worth of points I have unlocked every single questing area and feature in the original SoA. If I was a loyal subscriber up to a year before F2P I paid something for the original game and 15 bucks a month which could come out to be well over 200 bucks. Unless I am avid about using destiny points or monster play (sucks) then I could have unlocked a ton of stuff with that 200 bucks in points.

Anyone who subscribes today gets 500 points or something like that per month. So.....

To even remotely say someone who purchased SoA at any time and anyone who subscribed before F2P didn't get the short end of the stick is an outright LIE. To even remotely say they didn't get shafted for being a loyal subscriber before F2P Turbine would have had to award them the appropriate points per month that they would have accumulated over those loyal subscriptions.

The simple FACT of the matter is if you joined after F2P you get stuff for free that the rest of us paid 60 bucks for at launch. You can also use 60 bucks which is what we spent at launch and basicly unlock the entire SoA game for free. Which I remind you we paid 60 bucks just for the option to PAY for again as a subscription fee. During those subscriptions we didn't accumulate free points at all nor did we get retroactive points for any deeds/etc that we did during that time.

You can't actually argue that being a subscriber before F2P or becoming 1 after doesn't yield a better bang for your buck without looking like a complete and total idiot. With the money I spent on my primary account over the years I could have unlocked every single feature in this game 3 times over and still had thousands of points left over for cosmetics etc, not to mention I would have been accumulating 500 pts per month all that time AND accumulating free points from deeds etc.

People who joined after F2P are not getting a completely and utterly better deal than loyal past subscribers = really dumb argument.

Your argument might have weight if the game had been converted to F2P....It wasn't

All they did was add another payment option to the existing unchanged (except getting 500 free points a month) payment method.

Comparing what people spent for years before to what F2P players spend now is unrealistic.

You obviously feel the F2P option is better for you, and there are those who prefer the VIP route, that's the beauty of it..........choices.

Each method has it's pros and cons but the bottom line is that we all get to play LOTRO and pay the way we want, we are not enemies.

VIPvF2P is NOT the new PvP

[Narei]

I honestly don't see the problem.

Back before the game went free to play, you subscribed for the game like anyone else did, just like any other pay to play MMO. You had to buy the Moria expansion, and keep subscribing in order to keep playing. Just like any other pay to play game. If you unsubscribed, you lost access to the servers until you resubscribed.

Now it is free to play, you have two options. You can either do what you did before and subscribe while buying expansions, or you can spend time/money on TP to buy content (including expansions) in smaller pieces. The only real differences are that you have a choice in how to approach spending money on the game, and that you won't lose server access for not subscribing.

So, with this all in mind...what, precisely, is the problem? Taking the first option means you're still paying for it the same way as you used to, and recieving the same things, without the threat of being unable to play should you cancelthe subscription. I used to play WoW (for 3 years), and I have all the expansions barring the latest one as well as of course, the base game. Yet Blizzard won't let me get at their servers to play it anymore, because I do not 'own' the content nor do I have an active subscription. In LOTRO, I have the option to 'buy' the content for good, if I desire. I don't even need an active subscription. If I were to kick up a fuss telling Blizzard that they should let me have full access to all the expansions and base game because I'd paid for them, they'd laugh at me. I don't see why Turbine would do any differently (except for the fact, that you actually OWN any expansions you've bought. You don't have to keep a subscription running to get at them)

[Vellrad]

Actually, I'd say TURBINE has the best F2P model... since the LotRO model is an adaptation of the DDO model (which you could also earn the points to unlock things through game-play albeit with FAR more repetitive grindage due to lack of deeds/amount of content compared to LotRO).

Well, IMO DDO got better f2p model, maybe you don't get as much free TP, but quest packs are much cheaper, not to mention you don't need to spend ~1,6k TP per character to get traits and riding without VIP.

Anyway, I think Turbine is doing great job with f2p model, because I hate when I sub to game, and don't have time to play.
With this f2p I know I can leave game, and it will be still waiting for me, when I decide I got 40 minutes of time to waste ^^

[Badgadan]

just want to clarify as it's an important distinction - you can buy the expansion components through the store but NOT the expansion (it may have already been made).

for example, i'm a lifer, came back after being away for a while and bought what i thought was the endewaith expansion using TP - turns out it was just the quest pack. then i tried to do draigloch - had to use TP to unlock that. i also couldn't upgrade my skirmish soldier past 65, so had to buy that with TP.

I contacted support and they basically told me the above - so I bought the expansion with real money and they refunded the points I'd spent.

[monk_tbd]

To even remotely say someone who purchased SoA at any time and anyone who subscribed before F2P didn't get the short end of the stick is an outright LIE.
...
The simple FACT of the matter is if you joined after F2P you get stuff for free that the rest of us paid 60 bucks for at launch. You can also use 60 bucks which is what we spent at launch and basicly unlock the entire SoA game for free. Which I remind you we paid 60 bucks just for the option to PAY for again as a subscription fee. During those subscriptions we didn't accumulate free points at all nor did we get retroactive points for any deeds/etc that we did during that time.

Besides what Missy already said about that the only difference is that they added another payment method (i.e f2p/Premium) you also overlook that you played a new game back then. You had access to content that people who joined during f2p did not have.
Other MMOs with expansion also sell their base game much cheaper than expansion or bundle the base game with it.
Being able to access new content also has value - of course when f2p started the old SoA content did not have that value anymore. You can easily see that also with the pricing of quest packs especially RoI, Mirkwood, Moria and all old SoA quest packs. Evendim gives you roughly 10 levels. Same for Moria and RoI. RoI quest pack does not even come with the instances while Evendim and Moria do.
If the SoA content would be new now you could expect that each quest pack would cost quite a bit more.

[monk_tbd]

just want to clarify as it's an important distinction - you can buy the expansion components through the store but NOT the expansion (it may have already been made).

for example, i'm a lifer, came back after being away for a while and bought what i thought was the endewaith expansion using TP - turns out it was just the quest pack. then i tried to do draigloch - had to use TP to unlock that. i also couldn't upgrade my skirmish soldier past 65, so had to buy that with TP.

This is only partly true.
There is no Mirkwood expansion anymore. Only the quest pack and the skirmish soldier upgrade.
For Moria and for RoI there is the expansion in the store to grant you the two class slots and the warden/RK for Moria and the instances (Draigoch plus Isengard) for RoI.
For RoI the expansion has only been available with Update 5 when they added the Isengard instances.

In addition they also added piecemeal options for quest packs, char slots, classes and instances separately for these expansions. RoI was only available as quest pack and Draigoch piecemeal when it launched.

Also there has never been an Enedwaith expansion. It was always a quest pack that came with an instance cluster, like Moria, like Angmar, like Evendim, like Misty Mountains. Turbine since then looked into dividing these up more and offer quest packs and instances separately like Halls of Night, Forsaken Inn, Draigoch and the new Isengard instance cluster.

[Celestrata]

As many users have answered the OP's original question, and provided assistance to those who are experiencing trouble with their accounts (I.E. -- You should have access to Moria and Mirkwood Quest Packs if you have the Moria or Mirkwood expansion), I'm going to call this one closed.