a question for sapience

[0987654321]

so i asked this int he other thread but it got locked.

why is the kb "bug-fix" being implemented now, and not 6 years ago? and why is it being pushed through when there are so many people speaking out against it?

[Squelcher]

Probably for the same reason creeps never got mail...

They never got around to it...

...at any point over the last 6 years...

[Aelonaith]

I too dont see the need of this change, they could hold it more, and in some future update add new deeds for contibution with new titles, this would be nice, more titles for creeps is always welcome.
PS: Lets not harass anyone in this threat please, so this one dont get locked (if the devs care about PvP'ers its about time to hear our complain for this change).

[Squelcher]

if the devs care about PvP'ers.

They don't.

Nothing can truly change my opinion on that now.

[Blackheart-Fury]

You dare to question the Turbine Regime?

[BrittainTheCommie]

The same reason store armour and all that other trash was put into place.

All these phantom players coming out of the woodwork but of course they don't use the forums, are requesting these changes...from the phantom forums.

Nonetheless, don't outsmart or outwit the Player Council Members or the CMs, threads will continue to be locked and the separate but equal jargon will continue to be implemented. What is equal, again?

Oh never mind, just direct me to the fountain I should be drinking out of.

[Cronk5]

It's happening now because it's just that - a "bug-fix." (Emphasis on the quotation marks.) PvP has been getting easier and easier, and I think this (along with some other recent changes,) are a foreshadowing of something to come relating the longevity of the game.

If it were truly a bug...well, all I can say is that I know some bugs take a while to get around to fixing, but six years is quite excessive!

[0987654321]

It's happening now because it's just that - a "bug-fix." (Emphasis on the quotation marks)

If it were truly a bug...well, all I can say is that I know some bugs take a while to get around to fixing, but six years is quite excessive!

war-leader bug comes to mind...would be nice if that could get fixed too.

[Almagnus1]

why is the kb "bug-fix" being implemented now, and not 6 years ago? and why is it being pushed through when there are so many people speaking out against it?

My guess with why this change is getting through, even though there's been an outcry against it:

Some time ago, before the player council was announced, some dev thought they would do us a favor with a fix to this deed. They spent time, made the solution, got the changes into a changelist, went through internal testing, was approved to go live, and set up on Bullroarer.

Then comes the update on Bullroarer, where it is shown to us for the first time. Because of the extensive signing, QA, testing, and deployment procedures needed to get an update ready for a Bullroarer push (much less ready to go live) would have delayed the update by a week (or more). This is simply not a big enough of a problem to be a show stopper for U11, much to chagrin of the PvMP community.

However, this entire issue validates exactly why they need a focus group that is engaged with the developers that are pre-Alpha testers - by the time we see stuff on Bullroarer, it's really too late to change it because of the processes in place to assure we don't get exceedingly buggy stuff.

[0987654321]

My guess with why this change is getting through, even though there's been an outcry against it:

Some time ago, before the player council was announced, some dev thought they would do us a favor with a fix to this deed. They spent time, made the solution, got the changes into a changelist, went through internal testing, was approved to go live, and set up on Bullroarer.

Then comes the update on Bullroarer, where it is shown to us for the first time. Because of the extensive signing, QA, testing, and deployment procedures needed to get an update ready for a Bullroarer push (much less ready to go live) would have delayed the update by a week (or more). This is simply not a big enough of a problem to be a show stopper for U11, much to chagrin of the PvMP community.

However, this entire issue validates exactly why they need a focus group that is engaged with the developers that are pre-Alpha testers - by the time we see stuff on Bullroarer, it's really too late to change it because of the processes in place to assure we don't get exceedingly buggy stuff.

while everything you said could be true, it would be nice to get a blue name response. especially for why it took 6 years to actually "fix" it.

[Almagnus1]

while everything you said could be true, it would be nice to get a blue name response. especially for why it took 6 years to actually "fix" it.

Eh, it's looking at what the processes were at a game studio I worked at, and reasoning that Turbine's are similar....

As for the time to fix.... Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answer too.....

[FangtheLucky]

My guess with why this change is getting through, even though there's been an outcry against it:

Some time ago, before the player council was announced, some dev thought they would do us a favor with a fix to this deed. They spent time, made the solution, got the changes into a changelist, went through internal testing, was approved to go live, and set up on Bullroarer.

Then comes the update on Bullroarer, where it is shown to us for the first time. Because of the extensive signing, QA, testing, and deployment procedures needed to get an update ready for a Bullroarer push (much less ready to go live) would have delayed the update by a week (or more). This is simply not a big enough of a problem to be a show stopper for U11, much to chagrin of the PvMP community.

However, this entire issue validates exactly why they need a focus group that is engaged with the developers that are pre-Alpha testers - by the time we see stuff on Bullroarer, it's really too late to change it because of the processes in place to assure we don't get exceedingly buggy stuff.

Nicely thought out and well put. However, imho, incorrect. This change is solely and simply about the money. No player council, or focus group, or petition, could have stopped this change at anytime after Turbine's marketing team decided it would increase revenues. I don't know if it will or not, but they think so or they wouldn't do it.

They have a new update they hope will attract new people. They want to keep new people happy because new people spend more money than old vets. Think about it. When did you buy more deed and slayer and rep accelerators? When did you buy more outfits and mounts and creeps skills and corruptions? When did you spend more money on TP? With some exceptions, I bet their research shows new people spend more.

They're betting that while many people hate this KB change as much as I do, not many will quit. And the lost revenue from those who quit will be more than made up for by new EZmoders. This is the only reason I can think of that makes any sense at all. Otherwise, they'd at least say that after hearing the outcry against it, they'd consider taking it out in a future update. But they haven't and they won't.

Sincerely,
Lou de Torres

[Aelonaith]

My guess with why this change is getting through, even though there's been an outcry against it:

Some time ago, before the player council was announced, some dev thought they would do us a favor with a fix to this deed. They spent time, made the solution, got the changes into a changelist, went through internal testing, was approved to go live, and set up on Bullroarer.

Then comes the update on Bullroarer, where it is shown to us for the first time. Because of the extensive signing, QA, testing, and deployment procedures needed to get an update ready for a Bullroarer push (much less ready to go live) would have delayed the update by a week (or more). This is simply not a big enough of a problem to be a show stopper for U11, much to chagrin of the PvMP community.

However, this entire issue validates exactly why they need a focus group that is engaged with the developers that are pre-Alpha testers - by the time we see stuff on Bullroarer, it's really too late to change it because of the processes in place to assure we don't get exceedingly buggy stuff.

Deeds are not that hard, they're not changing landscape or not, they're just applying an existent code (from renown/infamy contribution) and aplying at KB deeds.
And i was thinking, when Turbine was about to add the Hobby-horse (after all the hard process of testing it), the most part of casual/RP players flamed the forums about this would be a lore breaker, and them Turbine removed (and at their posts there was much more rude words than at PvP'ers topic). And now the PvP'ers are begging for a change to not come live, and guess what? It will come live no matter what. The devs are commited with this unwanted change, not with the players.
LOTRO was never a PvP game, but Turbine is a company and need money, PvP is one of the most rentable things at LOTRO i guess, theres LI, expansions and quest packs for jewellery, subscriptions, tomes/store items/creep skills (what is sad), etc

They removed a item from bullroarer for casual/RP players but cant let the deeds unchanged for PvP players.

[tarpelion]

Eh, it's looking at what the processes were at a game studio I worked at, and reasoning that Turbine's are similar....

As for the time to fix.... Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answer too.....

I think most people do want to know the motivation to change the deeds now instead of 6 years ago. Imo this is a form of communication too from Turbine towards us and one of the most necessary things in an MMO especially with changes most people don't like.

Only reasons i read now are bugged deeds, miscalculation or simply lazyness.

Could we get a response from a blue name please to know the real reason?

[Lendas]

Fixing things that the community does not think are broken...
Ignoring things that the community thinks are broken...

[0987654321]

Fixing things that the community does not think are broken...
Ignoring things that the community thinks are broken...

exactly the kind of post i was hopign to avoid. way to go.

[Sapience]

I don't think I even need to explain this one. Locked.