L2P

If there's one thing that irks me more than anything else, in-game or on the forums, is when people respond with "L2P" or "Learn Your Class" without offering an ounce of suggestion.

Well, speaking on behalf of those that may not know their classes all that well, please consider offering suggestions to players instead of just replying with "L2P".

Sure, they might not be as good as the "all-knowing, uber players" - as some of those that will respond with "L2P" think they are - but they're learning. Give em some time. I'm pretty sure when you first started playing the game, you didn't jump in with both feet running. :rolleyes:

And frustrating an already frustrated player even more makes them not want to play the game. Fewer players = less revenue for Turbine. Less revenue for Turbine = no LOTRO for anyone.

I was with you 100% and ready to give you rep...until...

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Originally Posted by KouklaGirl

And frustrating an already frustrated player even more makes them not want to play the game. Fewer players = less revenue for Turbine. Less revenue for Turbine = no LOTRO for anyone.

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Anyway, I do admit that "L2P" can be a little callous. Was there a specific problem you encountered? I can offer a decent amount of advice on most classes (save Warden...that is one I haven't got to, yet.)

100% true -- it's extremely disheartening to see posts where people are genuinely having problems and the answers could be rewritten as -- well that quest or encounter is easy so you must really suck.

More constructive answers are what people are looking for!

People don't really say that in this game, do they?

Generally when you get that answer, at least on Landroval, you've done something to deserve it, or you have enough of a bad name that people don't feel like giving you any advice.

When you're asking for help, it helps to ask politely. Bitching that the thing you're having trouble with is too hard isn't a good idea either, nor is calling those that say it's easy elitist.

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Originally Posted by RedlineJunkie

People don't really say that in this game, do they?

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They do :( I actually hear it more at endgame than lower levels.

This reminds me of a good quote:

He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.

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Originally Posted by IowaHawk

Anyway, I do admit that "L2P" can be a little callous. Was there a specific problem you encountered? I can offer a decent amount of advice on most classes (save Warden...that is one I haven't got to, yet.)

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Oh, I don't have any problems myself, but being on the forums quite a bit and playing since 2007 (reading GLFF), I do see a lot of "L2P" and "u suck" replies to questions, and know it can be frustrating, especially for new players.

I'm just speaking for the little people, I guess... :D

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

This reminds me of a good quote:

He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.

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"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

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Originally Posted by RANA01340

Generally when you get that answer, at least on Landroval, you've done something to deserve it, or you have enough of a bad name that people don't feel like giving you any advice.

When you're asking for help, it helps to ask politely. Bitching that the thing you're having trouble with is too hard isn't a good idea either, nor is calling those that say it's easy elitist.

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saying it's easy isn't necessarily elitist no but it's absolutely not helpful and quite frankly can come across as being quite rude is the point. Who cares if the content they are struggling on is easy or hard in your opinion? If they are frustrated they are frustrated -- it's no different than anything else folks complain about in public channels and on the forums.

I agree totally that how you ask will impact the kinds of responses you get however but it does drive me nuts when someone is struggling with something and all they get back is but that quest is easy -- and then this argument begins about hard vs easy bla bla bla.

I'll give you an example:

I found the quest Death from Below insanely easy -- I did it while co-ordinating forming a raid and barely paying attention. I was actually waiting on this big tough challenging fight I kept hearing about. Does that mean the quest is universally easy? does it trivilialize the challenges others have genuinely had with the quest?

On the flip side I found 2.9.16 fairly challenging (on both characters I've done it on) to get the timing right to put the trolls to sleep so it took me a few tries -- I actually found it more challenging than Death from Below but the reverse is generally the normally accepted belief about the two quests.

My point -- easy vs hard is a red herring when someone is genuinely frustrated with content and should be left out of the answers to genuine questions. If the way they asked is bitchy and rude just ignore them and move on -- no need to stoke the fire so to speak with an equally rude response about how easy the quest is.

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Originally Posted by Khuldar

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

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Ooh, dueling aphorisms. Gotta love folk wisdom

Look before you leap/he who hesitates is lost
A penny saved is a penny earned/penny wise, pound foolish
Absence makes the heart grow fonder/out of sight, out of mind
etc...

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Originally Posted by RANA01340

Generally when you get that answer, at least on Landroval, you've done something to deserve it, or you have enough of a bad name that people don't feel like giving you any advice.

When you're asking for help, it helps to ask politely. Bitching that the thing you're having trouble with is too hard isn't a good idea either, nor is calling those that say it's easy elitist.

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I was going to respectfully reply with a similar answer. There are questions; then there are endless amounts of mind numbing questions at times. It is also in the way that the question is asked many times.

Can I be a Scholar, Metal-smith and Tailor all on the same character?

Then you explain the crafting process and suggest that they visit a NPC to see what the viable selections are.

Why can't I be that, I don't think I like the other professions?

Well, because it's setup that way, maybe you could check the official lore book site and it would explain the crafting better.

Oh, I don't want to waste my time visiting a site for information, can't you explain?

Okay, well then at least check a crafting NPC so you can be offered the options.

Which one makes me the most money and is easiest?

(That gets 15 conflicting answers....at least)

Wow, no one really wants to help you in this game.....

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Originally Posted by KouklaGirl

Oh, I don't have any problems myself, but being on the forums quite a bit and playing since 2007 (reading GLFF), I do see a lot of "L2P" and "u suck" replies to questions, and know it can be frustrating, especially for new players.

I'm just speaking for the little people, I guess... :D

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Certainly these forums have more than their fair share of such folks, and it's often the same culprits.

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Originally Posted by Zarador

I was going to respectfully reply with a similar answer. There are questions; then there are endless amounts of mind numbing questions at times. It is also in the way that the question is asked many times.

Can I be a Scholar, Metal-smith and Tailor all on the same character?

Then you explain the crafting process and suggest that they visit a NPC to see what the viable selections are.

Why can't I be that, I don't think I like the other professions?

Well, because it's setup that way, maybe you could check the official lore book site and it would explain the crafting better.

Oh, I don't want to waste my time visiting a site for information, can't you explain?

Okay, well then at least check a crafting NPC so you can be offered the options.

Which one makes me the most money and is easiest?

(That gets 15 conflicting answers....at least)



Wow, no one really wants to help you in this game.....

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Hehe very good example of a frustrating help request -- and a good example of how some folks bring the fire on to themselves by their own behaviour.

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Originally Posted by KouklaGirl

If there's one thing that irks me more than anything else, in-game or on the forums, is when people respond with "L2P" or "Learn Your Class" without offering an ounce of suggestion.

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LOL well, not sure which is worse, really. A poster who simply types L2P (and then the necessary 7 other characters to fill in the 10 char minimum...) or those who goes in a thread just to correct a spelling (well, except when an OP comments about worng spelilngs in the game and then make a spelilng erorr of thier own of course ;) ) ...

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Originally Posted by KouklaGirl

Oh, I don't have any problems myself, but being on the forums quite a bit and playing since 2007 (reading GLFF), I do see a lot of "L2P" and "u suck" replies to questions, and know it can be frustrating, especially for new players.

I'm just speaking for the little people, I guess... :D

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Oh, jolly good then.

On this issue as a whole, I can say two things:

1. My (approaching) two years on Firefoot has shown that most people that ask for help will normally get it, and that "L2P" is not sprinkled in often, even jokingly.

2. With that being said, one must also bear in mind the context of the request:

Example A: "I can't find the batcave, can anyone help?"

"lol, did u look under wayne manor???"

"It's in Gotham City."

"LOL, I can show you in a sec, are you in Chamber of Crossroads?"

Example B: "STUPID THNGULHAD SKRIMISH IS TO HARD TURBINE SUCKS THIS IS BROKEN IT IS SO HARD!"

"U suck"

"L2P"

OP - Screenshot or it never happened! jjk ;)

Seriously, I am in disbelief that you would only get "L2P" as a response either on the Forums or in-game in LOTRO.

Granted, you may get a few snarky responses, and definitely a myriad of people wanting to give their 2 Coppers along with opinion and commentary rather than a direct answer, but somewhere in that number of responses there has to be at least one or two sincere responses!

I've played a lot of MMOs in the past 12 years (about two dozen and counting). LOTRO has had one of the most exceptional communities by far. Sure, we have our share of loons and downright bitter players, just as any other MMO, but there are always a healthy share of helpful people around too, at least in my experience.

I'm sorry if you did get only a chorus of "L2P" or "Learn your class" responses. It's not entirely unusual to have one or two of those peeps chime in, but it is highly unusual that such is all you got (even if you asked in /GOOC, /GLFF, /UNITE or whatever Global Chat Channels are on your Server...there's always at least one or two helpful lurkers about at the least). I hope your bad experience doesn't discourage you too much. My suggestion is befriend those that are helpful (or join a helpful Kinship) and when you have a question check to see if those people are online and ask them directly rather than resort to more Global Channels where the rude and inconsiderate may drown out the sincere and helpful.

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Originally Posted by Khuldar

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

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Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

Ooh, dueling aphorisms. Gotta love folk wisdom

Look before you leap/he who hesitates is lost
A penny saved is a penny earned/penny wise, pound foolish
Absence makes the heart grow fonder/out of sight, out of mind
etc...

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Hehe, nice! Though I never really liked the "better to remain silent" one. I have no problem appearing a fool, as miscellaneous facebook pictures will proof.

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Originally Posted by Zarador

I was going to respectfully reply with a similar answer. There are questions; then there are endless amounts of mind numbing questions at times. It is also in the way that the question is asked many times.

Can I be a Scholar, Metal-smith and Tailor all on the same character?

Then you explain the crafting process and suggest that they visit a NPC to see what the viable selections are.

Why can't I be that, I don't think I like the other professions?

Well, because it's setup that way, maybe you could check the official lore book site and it would explain the crafting better.

Oh, I don't want to waste my time visiting a site for information, can't you explain?

Okay, well then at least check a crafting NPC so you can be offered the options.

Which one makes me the most money and is easiest?

(That gets 15 conflicting answers....at least)

Wow, no one really wants to help you in this game.....

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The one I absolutely hate the most is, "What is the best class to play?"

I get that one so often, normally in low level Bree area when working on alts. I like to try to offer advice to new players when I can, but sometimes what they ask can be so subjective.

However, I get revenge by giving them the "playing the class that is best suited to your playstyle" lecture, and asking them engaging questions about their MMO background and role history.

Then again, that backfired on me once when I asked a guy, "Have you played MMos before?, and he answered, "No, I just play WoW." (<---- 100% true story)

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Originally Posted by P1MetalDave

They do :( I actually hear it more at endgame than lower levels.

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WHile I'll never defend anyone who'd actually say this, I do see a surprising amount of level 60+ characters asking questions that should have been answered simply by playing the class for the last 60-odd levels. Things that seemingly no one who's spent ANY time with the class wouldn't find to be clearly self-evident.


Really? You didn't know before this Turtle raid that being in War-Speech cuts your healing in half?


I can't vouch for everyone as there simply are some ******* out there who'll denigrate you for any question you ask, but I can certainly understand where some of the comments are coming from when yet another high level character is asking for basic information.

With the ease of soloing through most of the content, unfortunately, this is just going to become even more prevalent than it already is. Used to be, you could pretty much assume that someone asking basic questions about his level 50 character had just bought it. These days, you've got people who've essentially never grouped at all expecting to jump into a tough instance or raid.

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Hehe, nice! Though I never really liked the "better to remain silent" one. I have no problem appearing a fool, as miscellaneous facebook pictures will proof.

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Well now you have just gone and made a lot of people really curious.

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Originally Posted by zarador

i Was Going To Respectfully Reply With A Similar Answer. There Are Questions; Then There Are Endless Amounts Of Mind Numbing Questions At Times. It Is Also In The Way That The Question Is Asked Many Times.

Can I Be A Scholar, Metal-smith And Tailor All On The Same Character?

Then You Explain The Crafting Process And Suggest That They Visit A Npc To See What The Viable Selections Are.

Why Can't I Be That, I Don't Think I Like The Other Professions?

Well, Because It's Setup That Way, Maybe You Could Check The Official Lore Book Site And It Would Explain The Crafting Better.

Oh, I Don't Want To Waste My Time Visiting A Site For Information, Can't You Explain?

Okay, Well Then At Least Check A Crafting Npc So You Can Be Offered The Options.

Which One Makes Me The Most Money And Is Easiest?

(that Gets 15 Conflicting Answers....at Least)

Wow, No One Really Wants To Help You In This Game.....

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This !!!!

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Originally Posted by DougHillman

With the ease of soloing through most of the content, unfortunately, this is just going to become even more prevalent than it already is. Used to be, you could pretty much assume that someone asking basic questions about his level 50 character had just bought it. These days, you've got people who've essentially never grouped at all expecting to jump into a tough instance or raid.

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QFT -- this is a growing trend in LOTRO unfortunately. While I'm not an advocate for forced grouping (honest i"M not hehe) I would love to see better incentive put back in to the game to participate in grouping activities while leveling up. Right now unless you have a premade group outside of certain instances it's borderline impossible to group up while leveling. A newer player just getting in to the game will fall in to the solo focused leveling trap and not learn things like how war speech effects your healing etc. The incentive for grouping simply isn't there -- even the new GA revamp in Lonelands. While it gives some nice rewards and it's very well done -- and especially fun to go back and do as a long term player for nostalgic reasons -- from a leveling vantage point it's not really all that valuable when you can do solo skirmishes and barter skirmish marks for some nice things on the leveling track as well.

This edges on to the rewarding groups better debate and that's not my intent but at some point people will most likely join a group in this game (even if it's just turtle for the 1st age) and soloing to 65 doesn't give them the best basis for doing this. Somehow grouping on the way up needs to be encouraged without spoiling the solo game at the same time (tough tough balance I know).

To the OP, I completely understand your frustration.

I have no problem helping players who are new to the game or new to gaming with brand new characters, etc.

The problem I have is with people who's characters are high level, who obviously did NOT level them but instead paid for a leveling service and then proceed to ask the most idiotic questions in Middle Earth.

As for the dueling sayings....I personally like one that I have been saying since I first began gaming....

"The only stupid question is one that doesn't get asked." I feel that being a part of a gaming community I have a responsibility to help players on their travels if they ask for help. I enjoy it as long as they are adventurous and don't expect me to lead them around by the nose to complete things. :)

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Originally Posted by DougHillman

WHile I'll never defend anyone who'd actually say this, I do see a surprising amount of level 60+ characters asking questions that should have been answered simply by playing the class for the last 60-odd levels. Things that seemingly no one who's spent ANY time with the class wouldn't find to be clearly self-evident.


Really? You didn't know before this Turtle raid that being in War-Speech cuts your healing in half?


I can't vouch for everyone as there simply are some ******* out there who'll denigrate you for any question you ask, but I can certainly understand where some of the comments are coming from when yet another high level character is asking for basic information.

With the ease of soloing through most of the content, unfortunately, this is just going to become even more prevalent than it already is. Used to be, you could pretty much assume that someone asking basic questions about his level 50 character had just bought it. These days, you've got people who've essentially never grouped at all expecting to jump into a tough instance or raid.

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True story:

Me: Well, we are done here in Dol Dinen, can we get a port, Hunter?"

Level 35 Hunter: ...I don't think I can do that...

Another true story:

Me: It's a wipe, hit DF and get outta there, hunter!

Level 65 hunter: What's that?

Another true story:

Me: Thanks for the invite 59 champ, well I guess you can tank and I can hit Provoke on bosses since we don't have a guard or warden?

Level 60 Hunter: No, I will have to tank since I will be getting all the threat.

(Sorry, I actually don't have anything against hunters...I just have bad luck with them in pugs.)