Seriously considering a warden but a few questions.

When I ask in game it is not clear what a wardens role actually is, I understand it is tanking but I hear groups wont let wardens tank?

Anyways I want a class that will invite me to groups often from 20 and up, I want to be able to atleast fill more then one role. If anyone here has played eq2 could you tell me if the warden feels anything like a monk in the group? The monks in eq2 where fast very fast attackers, could tank, offheal and of course dps.

Are wardens actually fun in groups?

And lorewise where do there abilities come from? They are very flashy and look almost magical, and do you get allot of flashy melee attacks?

Lots of questions I know, but im tired of trying characters ive pretty much narrowed it down to burglar, warden, and loremaster possibly a minstrel.

I dropped my captain he has my favorite playstyle but I hated his melee style I do not like slow 2hander weapon types.

Thank you everyone.

I had no problem finding tanking jobs with my Warden.

They take longer to decide, though, presumably looking at your gear and your equipped traits. They don't want to die horrible deaths after entering the dungeon, you know? :)

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Originally Posted by angelbound

When I ask in game it is not clear what a wardens role actually is, I understand it is tanking but I hear groups wont let wardens tank?

Anyways I want a class that will invite me to groups often from 20 and up, I want to be able to atleast fill more then one role. If anyone here has played eq2 could you tell me if the warden feels anything like a monk in the group? The monks in eq2 where fast very fast attackers, could tank, offheal and of course dps.

Are wardens actually fun in groups?

And lorewise where do there abilities come from? They are very flashy and look almost magical, and do you get allot of flashy melee attacks?

Lots of questions I know, but im tired of trying characters ive pretty much narrowed it down to burglar, warden, and loremaster possibly a minstrel.

I dropped my captain he has my favorite playstyle but I hated his melee style I do not like slow 2hander weapon types.

Thank you everyone.

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This will be quick because the new House is on in like 5 minutes. :P

Getting a job tanking as a Warden isn't nearly so hard as it used to be. People have warmed to it. There are a lot of bad Wardens, but you're already on your way to become a good one by being here. Be sure to read the sticky. If you roll a new character, I suggest doing it on Riddermark as there is a warden chat channel and an all warden kin with some of the top wardens from various servers that have decided to start over and are happy to give advice.

At 20ish, tanking is a little harder, but it's doable. You'll rely mostly on Precise Blow (fist, spear). If there's a guard, let him tank. Our DPS is still pretty substantial at level 20, so you can fill that role until you get closer to the cap.

Wardens are a blast to play as group tanks if you like having to think on your feet. If you are good at it, it's spectacular how you can save the group's behind at times. If you're bad at it, it's extremely painful though. It takes some research and some practice, but it's not that hard once you get used to it.

I'll let others speak to the lore. It's not really my thing. I know we're ostensibly based on some elf or another, but realistically, we have more in common with Spartans.... :rolleyes:

For sparta! Hehe anyways, I don't know if thats anything like the eq2 monk I had. Also for a warden if I decide to play it, should I roll an elf for the extra stealth? In what way does it help? And how do elf animations look with the spear/jav combo?

None are "magical". They just have nice effects. Shield up or Defiant Challenge or Impressive Flourish all have flashy effects, but basically, you're either hitting, demoralizing, or infuriating your enemies or inspiring yourself or your fellows. Nothing is really "magical" although the RK's effects sure damned look like it.

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Originally Posted by angelbound

For sparta! Hehe anyways, I don't know if thats anything like the eq2 monk I had. Also for a warden if I decide to play it, should I roll an elf for the extra stealth? In what way does it help? And how do elf animations look with the spear/jav combo?

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I can't really speak to the Elf animations (or to EQ2), but I assume they are as good as any other race. The art team is generally pretty good here imho, though I usually play zoomed out anyway. :)

Race is a much debated thing. The general consensus is that Man is the best if you are a number cruncher, (but it's not by enough to make or break you), but Hobbits and Elves have stealth which can be useful for avoiding trash mobs in some places. Race is a fairly minor choice as far as numbers go. Here's a quick breakdown of the main, non-cosmetic points: (all of these require a racial trait slot unless noted as passive)

Elf:
Stealth with a half-hour cooldown
Big, very useful parry buff with an hour cooldown
+2% damage with swords

Hobbit:
Stealth with a half-hour cooldown
Feign Death with an hour cooldown
+2% damage with clubs (probably slightly less useful than swords)

Man:
+5% incoming healing PASSIVE (no trait need be slotted)
Large heal on an hour cooldown (less useful the more morale you have, but not trivial at 65)
+~.5% each to block, parry and evade (depending on current ratings)
+2% damage with swords

The reason Man is generally considered the best is because we heal ourselves so much and we tank, so that 5% gets applied much more often than it would be for any other class. Still, it's not like anyone is going to turn you down as a tank because you're the "wrong" race. Though I might avoid you if you roll a hobbit. They have small hands and smell of cabbage.

Actually runekeepers and loremasters are magical regardless the elves themselves are part of magic, they can feel bad things around them they are empathic.

But flames coming out of your shield come on dude seriously, lore wise it does not make sense if he can simply do it, so the question is where does it come from?

On a side not. I will try both.

Now for the name I am thinking maybe something like vonyan would make sense for a warden or Valehk something along those lines what do you think?

I am assuming that wardens are swift and strong so something inbetween.

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Originally Posted by angelbound

Actually runekeepers and loremasters are magical regardless the elves themselves are part of magic, they can feel bad things around them they are empathic.

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Well, what we'd call magic and what is called magic in Middle-earth are different. Magic in ME is (generally) sorcery, the black arts of the Enemy. The abilities used by Gandalf and the other Wizards aren't even properly magic - Gandalf and the Wizards are angels inhabiting human bodies, so it's more displays of demi-godly power than anything like "magic." Empathic abilities seem to just be inherent in Elves, along with foresight in the higher kindreds of Elves and Men (the Dunedain/Numenoreans). This isn't magic, but a gift of the kindred. You couldn't teach it, as you can teach sorcery.

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But flames coming out of your shield come on dude seriously, lore wise it does not make sense if he can simply do it, so the question is where does it come from?

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That's all just effects. It'd be pretty boring (and lacking in visual feedback) if your gambits didn't do anything but trigger the little icon under your character. Just wait til you get Shield Mastery - nobody thinks that by crouching, you're causing an electrically-charged bubble to surround yourself. Just there to show visually that you successfully performed the gambit. I mean, Burglars using Gamble skills have giant dice appear above the enemy's head. I doubt that's meant literally either.

Well people do not seem to mind who get upset about lore breaking, angels or not its a form of energy that use that is in turn magic I did not know they where angels in the bodys though that is very interesting friend, I will have to read lotr someday.

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Originally Posted by angelbound

Well people do not seem to mind who get upset about lore breaking, angels or not its a form of energy that use that is in turn magic I did not know they where angels in the bodys though that is very interesting friend, I will have to read lotr someday.

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Yeah, you really should. Here are literally all of the "spells" (that I remember, I could have missed one) which actually happens "on screen":

1. Gandalf makes the tip of his staff light up in Moria so they can see.

2. Gandalf gives a rousing speech to the Steward of Gondor which cures him of the stupor Wormwood had him under.

And next to Sauron, Gandalf is probably the most powerful wizard that ever lived (though I'm not a lore person, so I could be wrong on this too). Magic is just not a major focus in the setting, which is why people went so ballistic when the runekeeper was introduced.

All of the Warden's animations such as a boar rushing out of you or a glowy trail behind your weapon are graphics FX only for the player. They aren't actually happening in the world.

But other players can see it, that is part of the world in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by angelbound

But other players can see it, that is part of the world in my opinion.

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There is a lot of stuff that the players can see that the characters can't such as Hope/Dread, morale levels, target indicators, toolbars, character sheets, item stats, etc., etc., etc. The graphics when a gambit is executed is exactly like that other stuff. The term "world" is a bit ambiguous, but none of the aforementioned things are part of the setting.

Well I still stick to my opinion friend im sorry.

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Originally Posted by angelbound

Well I still stick to my opinion friend im sorry.

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Haha. It makes no difference to me. Just don't expect too many people to agree with you, especially those who've been around long enough to see the official lore-monkey Berephron try to do his tapdance to justify Runekeepers. ;)

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Originally Posted by tanis0

And next to Sauron, Gandalf is probably the most powerful wizard that ever lived (though I'm not a lore person, so I could be wrong on this too).

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IANALM (I am not a lore monkey), but I recall a discussion in glff about magic in LoTR in which a lore monkey said that Gandalf eschewed the overt use of his powers because using his powers would allow Sauron to locate him. That is why the few times Gandalf uses magic are of the subtle variety, as you listed, or are done when the Enemy has already located him, as in the battle on Weathertop.

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Originally Posted by Jaltir

IANALM (I am not a lore monkey), but I recall a discussion in glff about magic in LoTR in which a lore monkey said that Gandalf eschewed the overt use of his powers because using his powers would allow Sauron to locate him. That is why the few times Gandalf uses magic are of the subtle variety, as you listed, or are done when the Enemy has already located him, as in the battle on Weathertop.

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Fair enough, but that only reinforces the point that there aren't people casting magic left and right in Middle Earth. If they were, why would Gandalf have to be so discreet? He could just blend in with all the other spellcasters. :)

I think I'll PM Bereph and see if we can get an official answer. If I can figure out how in this new setup, anyway. ;)

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Originally Posted by tanis0

2. Gandalf gives a rousing speech to the King of Rohan which cures him of the stupor Wormtongue had him under.

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FIFY.

magic in middle earth is a confusing thing, as Galadriel puts it, Hobbits would refer to magic as the works of Sauron as much as things like her mirror. but everything in-game isn't magic, it's, at best, manipulation of nature or words (I'm refering to the two classes most obviously "magical"). both of which have a force of their own in the world of Middle-earth. what you see on your screen is usually nothing more then eye candy, I mean, the Lore-master has a skill where he has a "battle of minds" with the enemy which is a short term stun, during that skill a purple beam hits the mob, now, the animation could conclude with the LM just pointing his hand at the mob, but it doesn't, why? because we like seeing what we do, we like getting some kind of reward. the same is true of RK skills, they aren't actuall using fire/lightning/frost when they attack, they are using words of power that in Middle-earth have real power and effect, the flames that we see are just a visual aid, because there is no real reason for having flames dance around a mob, it's not actually happening in the game world.

Epic derail, guys. Cookys all around.

The effects for the Warden's skills are just that, FX. (I play with all FX turned off, so I hardly ever notice any.) They are purely for those who desire flashiness. Nothing magical implied.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The effects for the Warden's skills are just that, FX. (I play with all FX turned off, so I hardly ever notice any.) They are purely for those who desire flashiness. Nothing magical implied.

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Sort of like lightning shooting from RK fingertips. Not sure why people treat that differently than a glowing forcefield bubble around a Warden. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by gildhur

Sort of like lightning shooting from RK fingertips. Not sure why people treat that differently than a glowing forcefield bubble around a Warden. :rolleyes:

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because RKs are from the dark side, Wardens are clearly Jedi.

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Originally Posted by gildhur

Sort of like lightning shooting from RK fingertips. Not sure why people treat that differently than a glowing forcefield bubble around a Warden. :rolleyes:

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Possibly because of the associated sound effect. It makes the 'FX' really intrusive and hard to ignore.

The lightning coming from there fingertips thing you are very right, that is what I have been saying all along, I am sorry but saying that the fx is a fact does not make it a fact, this is not a good enough answer it is illogical in general therefor people who can accept the pretty light magic looking shield on a warden have no right to complain about magic from loremasters or runekeepers have a nice day.

There is a major differance between the champions sword graphic animations and fire coming out of the shield that is not just an fx that is an element.

So gandald to hide his powers, now that actually makes sense, therefor lotro can probably have more magic then it shows. And I am not really trying to justify runekeepers but what he said clearly does justify it in so many ways, and all I was saying its kind of silly you guys can accept warden animations but not runekeeper wow.

Cant honestly see a reason other than performance issues to turn of extra effects.

I didnt buy an expensive graphics card and system to play games just to turn off effects. Certainly not if I pay a monthly fee... I want everything! All the frills for me please.. it does enhance my enjoyment.

If I cant have absolutly everything on in the highest resoloution then.. well, time to look at an upgrade :D :D.... Which for me next is an SSD ;)