Game decline??

Is it my imagination or does it seem the game is declining more and more. When ftp came out there was a large surge in players, new servers etc. It seems like many people that are on my friends list no longer play. Also when I go into towns such as Bree, Thorins Hall, Michel Delving, they are all ghost towns. :(

Also as an MMO veteran of several games I have noticed some things.

1. Going ftp to get a huge influx of new players.

2. More reliance on the lotro store for purchases. (Company effort to squeeze last $$)

3. Having "special" after "special" in the store. (Company needs more $$ to keep up servers)

4. The seemingly large drop of players on my server since Rift and DC universe came out. Anytime a big new game comes out other MMO's feel it. Star wars will be beyond big.

5. Watching some friends who have multiple level 65's taking looooong breaks (months).

6. A titan on the horizon.. Star Wars the Old Republic. I hear in game people saying that cant wait for this.

7. Age of Lotro. Lotro has been around for a while, granted it still looks amazing and is a good game, but can it compete with some of the newer games? or games that have received a total facelift such as WoW. What happens when other big name titles get huge patches to make them sweet looking and great running? How much more content can lotro get and more importantly how much more content is turbine willing to put out for it? Perhaps turbine has a new game they are putting most of their time into?

This all signals to me that Lotro seems to be in its death throws. I very well could be completely wrong, but my gut tells me they will start merging servers inside a year, and we all know that the merging of servers means the game is in the coffin waiting for burial.

I am curious if anyone else seems to feel this is happening?

Nope I don't think this is happening.

If the population starts decreasing, Turbine will likely do what Sony has been doing with Everquest 2 Live. Just start merging servers.

This game is a pale shadow of what is used to be, with less and less frequent new content. But it is a huge game nonetheless, with amazingly great graphics and realistic characters. It will survive. I will be playing it years from now. (And grumbling now and then on the forums even then. ;))

First, games and game populations tend to mature and players (even F2P players) move on to other things. LOTRO, with F2P, has done a lot to avoid this and F2P still helps bring in new folks at a reasonable rate. IMO, Bree is much less of an empty wasteland than it was before F2P. And every game (esp MMOs) takes a hit with every 'new, different, better' game that is released. I have been in Middle Earth thru several 'Oh, <fill in the name of the newest MMO soon to come out> will just kill LOTRO - it has <name of the gizmo of the week> and LOTRO doesn't...' experiences. Finally, if you want to look for 'signs of the impending fall' (of whatever) you can find them, no problem.

LOTRO is a good franchise; it has miles to go before it has used up its potential. I truly hope SW:TOR is 60% of what people seem to expect it to be, but major expectations can often suffer major disappointments. Even if SW:TOR is a grand slam home run, there will still be things that LOTRO does better. Will we be able to tell when SW:TOR comes out? You betcha we (or at least I) will. And will it have a lasting impact on LOTRO? Yes, because it will meet the expectations of some folks and some of them will indeed leave LOTRO and never return.

But there will be players enough for WoW and SW:TOR and LOTRO and other MMOs to continue on. Rumors of LOTROs impending demise are, IMO, severely overstated. But YMMV and you're quite welcome to your own opinion.

Amongst my friends there are several problems:

1) Boredom. Played the game for a long time. The content is stale. Even the new content. It is different seasonings on left overs.

2) There has not been any interesting content. Update 2 introduced five new level capped instances. Many of my friends are not doing level capped instances. They do not especially like group content. It is hard content. Too hard for them. There is little in the way of character growth rewards.

3) Endewaith was released. A lot of friends were level capped. It was not very interesting to them because they could not earn XP. Others like leveling characters. They were comfortable with Mirkwood and the older regions because they were used to the content. They avoided Endewaith totally.

One of them tried Endewaith got killed a few times around the first camp. Had a bad in the wolf cave. Screw Endewaith when back to Mirkwood. Never returned.

4) A lot of the people that I've seen as F2P folks are what I would call use it, consume it, move on. They do not spend a lot of time with any game. They only play a game for three months. Go play something else. They are done with Lotro. Yeah some of them are playing the Rift. Come July or August they will probably be moving on to another game.

F2P is designed (or at least one of its goals( to get money of the folks that play a game heavily for a short while. Burn out. Leave forever. It does this by a zero cost hook. Again I have friends that are unwilling to play games with sub fees. They got no problem shelling out 200 dollars in the store.

You will see more people when Isengard arrives. We get a level cap raise. Many of them will not stay until the level cap raise.

We got 10 levels on November 18, 2008 with Moria. We got another five levels with Mirkwood on December 1, 2009. Some people reached 65 on day one. We have been stuck for 17? months now? We had a huge content drought while Turbine did the F2P changes in 2010.

Lotro will not die. Asheron's Call Turbine's first game launched 1999 is still chugging away.

populations in any mmo seem to fluctuate normally throughout the year. I also think that many servers are going to decline as the initial wave of f2p players recedes. Also i think there is a percentage of f2p players who will move on once they exhaust the LL region. With all of this fluctuation though, there is on every server a baseline population that isn't going anywhere. - M.

Hello. Just a few counterpoints to the observations you have made, to let you know my perspective on it. This is not a "You're wrong!" reply, it is just another view.

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1. Going ftp to get a huge influx of new players.

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Not sure that means anything other than DDO did so well that this looked like the best option for them. It has been said by Turbine many times that the game was not in trouble and, unless you have concrete evidence otherwise, I have to believe that.

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2. More reliance on the lotro store for purchases. (Company effort to squeeze last $$)

3. Having "special" after "special" in the store. (Company needs more $$ to keep up servers)

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My local supermarket has things on sale every week. Actually, so does Steam. Does that mean they are both struggling? Find me something that does not have rotating sales and specials to draw in customers. :)

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4. The seemingly large drop of players on my server since Rift and DC universe came out. Anytime a big new game comes out other MMO's feel it. Star wars will be beyond big.

5. Watching some friends who have multiple level 65's taking looooong breaks (months).

6. A titan on the horizon.. Star Wars the Old Republic. I hear in game people saying that cant wait for this.

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Yes, as more games come out, the population of established games will fluctuate. I have never been a believer in the theory that an MMO has to keep a death grip on players. I think it leads to a healthier environment for games overall if people play one for a bit, go to another, and come back to the first when they want. It keeps things fresh for everyone and the benefit of the new pricing format for LOTRO is that is is incredibly easy to poke your head back in at any time to see if you want to start playing again.

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7. Age of Lotro. Lotro has been around for a while, granted it still looks amazing and is a good game, but can it compete with some of the newer games? or games that have received a total facelift such as WoW. What happens when other big name titles get huge patches to make them sweet looking and great running? How much more content can lotro get and more importantly how much more content is turbine willing to put out for it? Perhaps turbine has a new game they are putting most of their time into?

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I don't see a problem with LOTRO. It still, to me, looks as good or better than many "younger" games out there. :)

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This all signals to me that Lotro seems to be in its death throws. I very well could be completely wrong, but my gut tells me they will start merging servers inside a year, and we all know that the merging of servers means the game is in the coffin waiting for burial.

I am curious if anyone else seems to feel this is happening?

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I don't think the signs you see are the dire portents you think they are. I could be wrong, too, but there are so many soothsayers out there who have predicted doom and gloom for so long over every little thing that it becomes hard to take any of it seriously. The only prophecies I usually see come true are the self-fulfilling ones.

It really comes doen to this for me. Are you still having fun playing the game? If so, great! Keep playing and encourage a friendly atmosphere for other players, no matter what subscription level they are on. If you are not having fun, though, as I said earlier I don't see any problem with taking a break and coming back when it is fun for you again. Everyone needs a change of scenery once in a while. :)

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Originally Posted by DreadSith

Is it my imagination or does it seem the game is declining more and more. When ftp came out there was a large surge in players, new servers etc. It seems like many people that are on my friends list no longer play. Also when I go into towns such as Bree, Thorins Hall, Michel Delving, they are all ghost towns. :(

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Just your imagination.

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Also as an MMO veteran of several games I have noticed some things.

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Been a vet way back prior to Meridian 59...

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1. Going ftp to get a huge influx of new players.

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F2P isn't always a death-sentence. In many cases it is generally poorly handled, but in the case of Turbine's implementation, it is meant to work with current subscription models, and in this way it allows for more potential growth without changing much.

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2. More reliance on the lotro store for purchases. (Company effort to squeeze last $$)

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"More reliance" on the store? I've purchased one thing from the store with the 500tp I get from Turbine, and that object was a revive tome because I didn't feel like traipsing back through the Misties for the quest I was on. That's not a reliance, that's actually living up to the purpose of convenience.

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3. Having "special" after "special" in the store. (Company needs more $$ to keep up servers)

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Special after special only allows for Turbine to create an ebb and flow with the players, by timing specials for a lot of players as they reach the areas they require (hence Turbine using the metrics for the regions), it allows them to maximize their incoming profits from them.

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4. The seemingly large drop of players on my server since Rift and DC universe came out. Anytime a big new game comes out other MMO's feel it. Star wars will be beyond big.

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Not sure which server you're on, but on the ones I play I've notice the opposite. Yes, there will be attrition for both time and for the "grass is greener" new MMO, but that's to be expected. TOR will only be big until most players realize that it's 'revolutionary' aspects are similar to that of Rifts in that it'll be short-term gimmicks.

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5. Watching some friends who have multiple level 65's taking looooong breaks (months).

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Taking breaks is healthy as well, several month breaks are more common even. I've taken many of them and that allows me to come in with fresh eyes and relive the 'old' content.

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6. A titan on the horizon.. Star Wars the Old Republic. I hear in game people saying that cant wait for this.

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As I said above, TOR will have their draw in the same way any new MMO does, as well as using the Star Wars franchise, however, like all MMOs the draw only lasts so long and even the die-hard fans of a franchise can fall out of love quickly, especially if (and how I've been watching TOR, more when) they realize that the game doesn't deliver on the feel of the license.

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7. Age of Lotro. Lotro has been around for a while, granted it still looks amazing and is a good game, but can it compete with some of the newer games? or games that have received a total facelift such as WoW. What happens when other big name titles get huge patches to make them sweet looking and great running? How much more content can lotro get and more importantly how much more content is turbine willing to put out for it? Perhaps turbine has a new game they are putting most of their time into?

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WoW actually hasn't had a facelift. It's added a few tweaks (see: just like LOTRO) to appear fresher, but overall the same general graphical quality of WoW hasn't changed since vanilla.

As for LOTRO, considering the modular design of the AC2 engine that they are using, along with the talent of knowing just what to add and when, I don't believe LOTRO will need a graphical overhaul in it's base lifetime.

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This all signals to me that Lotro seems to be in its death throws. I very well could be completely wrong, but my gut tells me they will start merging servers inside a year, and we all know that the merging of servers means the game is in the coffin waiting for burial.

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If anything, you're looking at a shift in paradigm for the entire MMO genre. After Turbine saved DDO with the hybrid-F2P system and how they've shown the industry that a F2P AAA title can be a viable product that traditional subscription-based offerings will become more and more rare.

As for merging of servers, that is also not a nail in a coffin...every MMO plans for more overhead and will generally have 6-8 servers more than they require to support a viable product. In LOTRO's case, they worked out a bit less than that which allowed each server to support a viable community and with the new F2P servers allowing a fresh-start area. Merging them (or even with the acquisition of the EU servers) together wouldn't really change much overall and it's probably something that I doubt we'll see anytime soon.

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I am curious if anyone else seems to feel this is happening?

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So no, I don't see/feel the same way.

I don't know which server you're from but Bree-land chat... still is bree-land chat and I'm from Imladris... supposedly the smallest server out there. There's sufficient people at least.

I think what happened was that when F2P first started, there was a surge of folks wanting to try it out. They got so high in level, played so much until either:
a) They got bored
b) They didn't want to sub or buy TP to advance further into the game
c) They didn't like it because hunters didn't get pets, there are no mages yadda yadda I wanna go back to WoW syndrome.
d) It's now spring time, RL is getting in the way of a lot of things. Life moves on.


iunno but that's just my two cents

On my server, it's actually a strange situation. We've been having to deal with the fact that we have gone from one of the lowest pop servers to one of the highest because we have been one of the 'Recommended World's for so long.

Me and my friends don't log on quite as much as we used to, but we have been playing this game for a long time. You can only play the same game for so long for so many hours a day before it's just not as fun anymore. I think that's the main thing that is going on here. The 'old guard' has been playing for four years now, and that's a long time to be playing the same game, even with frequent updates.

It's not something to worry about, I think. It's just a natural part of shifting interests.

SWG has these same threads yearly if not more often and it has survived 7 years.

Bottom Line, you don't need 10 million players to be successful, LOTRO will survive and will always have its dedicated Players. On Elendilmir it's still pretty active. I've been leveling on several alts and have seen people in many areas of the game.

You mention DCUO as a big game that recently launched? They announced server merges down to just two US servers, one for PC players and one for PS3 players. That can't be good with such a new MMO. LOTRO is four years old and still chugging along. Turbine announced revenue has tripled since going F2P so people might not be subscribing but they are spending money in the store. LOTRO isn't gonna die off anytime soon. If a game like SWG can remain profitable with so few players, LOTRO surely can. I also don't see Rift as taking many players away from LOTRO. LOTRO isn't the same style game as WoW, Rift, Aion, AoC. It's more casual friendly. Rift is more hardcore and I imagine it's taking members from WoW as they are VERY similar games.

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Originally Posted by DreadSith

Is it my imagination or does it seem the game is declining more and more. When ftp came out there was a large surge in players, new servers etc. It seems like many people that are on my friends list no longer play. Also when I go into towns such as Bree, Thorins Hall, Michel Delving, they are all ghost towns. :(

Also as an MMO veteran of several games I have noticed some things.

1. Going ftp to get a huge influx of new players. A lot of this has to do with the delay to F2P for EU.

2. More reliance on the lotro store for purchases. (Company effort to squeeze last $$)

3. Having "special" after "special" in the store. (Company needs more $$ to keep up servers)

4. The seemingly large drop of players on my server since Rift and DC universe came out. Anytime a big new game comes out other MMO's feel it. Star wars will be beyond big. Yup also drop has to do with F2P finally allowed in EU.

5. Watching some friends who have multiple level 65's taking looooong breaks (months).

6. A titan on the horizon.. Star Wars the Old Republic. I hear in game people saying that cant wait for this. Yup all over in-game and forums will be huge losses if things pan out well for that game.

7. Age of Lotro. Lotro has been around for a while, granted it still looks amazing and is a good game, but can it compete with some of the newer games? or games that have received a total facelift such as WoW. What happens when other big name titles get huge patches to make them sweet looking and great running? How much more content can lotro get and more importantly how much more content is turbine willing to put out for it? Perhaps turbine has a new game they are putting most of their time into?

If they keep up with what they are doing this year with no land mass in the free content updates and save them for when you get to pay for them it will not be able to attract lots of new players and keep current players around.

This all signals to me that Lotro seems to be in its death throws. I very well could be completely wrong, but my gut tells me they will start merging servers inside a year, and we all know that the merging of servers means the game is in the coffin waiting for burial.
The big factor of this will be this fall and how good the new content is, and what items they add to the store for PVMP. The rage over what turbine has been doing is at an all time high since F2P. It will not take much more for it to cause severe irreversible damage to peoples views to lotro-turbine.

I am curious if anyone else seems to feel this is happening?

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Words in yellow

Your imagination.


I've seen a lot more activity everywhere since F2P, and also, Turbine has already repeatedly said that they went F2P not because they were losing players, but another reason (probably for more money... greedy, greedy, greedy :D My apologies, I don't have a link on me at the moment)

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Originally Posted by redwoodtreesprite2

If the population starts decreasing, Turbine will likely do what Sony has been doing with Everquest 2 Live. Just start merging servers.

This game is a pale shadow of what is used to be, with less and less frequent new content. But it is a huge game nonetheless, with amazingly great graphics and realistic characters. It will survive. I will be playing it years from now. (And grumbling now and then on the forums even then. ;))

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I definitely agree that they will probably merge servers, I also think that LotrO is even near going downhill. This is my first MMORPG and I love the social aspect. Fellowshipping, even just seeing other players running around lightens my heart and makes me want to keep playing :) So even if, years from now, Turbine has combined all the servers and there's only a dozen players still playing, I will be one of them.

Decline? Nope.

No, if anything the game is growing. The new hybrid model they introduced with ftp worked very well with DDO and I suspect it is doing the same with LOTRO.

I'm personally not the least interested in Star Wars and a sci fi mmo on the horizon should be a problem for EVE not a fantasy based MMO in any case.

I've not seen a significant decline in content personally, however I understand that it is the way of the MMO gamer to completely ignore any content they don't find interesting and so declare that there is 'no new content' when what they actually mean is that the new content simply doesn't interest them.

I've if anything seen more players round about since ftp and I don't see any decline approaching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8IBnfkcrsM



lol...but seriously, I don't think the game is at the DooOOOoooM! stage just yet.

I doubt you'll see a huge population decline whether this game is F2P or subscription. Final Fantasy XI is PvE focused as well as its counterpart XIV and both games still have a healthy, stable population. FFXI and LOTRO are the best PvE games out right now and that will never change. I have pretty much decided not to touch a PvE/PvP MMO ever again. Can't have the best of both Worlds and it seems PvE MMOs offer better teamwork and are more social for me. I guess it varies with everyone though.

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Originally Posted by DreadSith

Is it my imagination or does it seem the game is declining more and more.

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Try doing a defrag - that might help.

Or maybe it's just your imagination.

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Originally Posted by DreadSith

<paid for by Trion Worlds>

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Oh, did you draw the "death throes" troll straw this week?

Being on Windfola I have notices zero decline at all recently. Actually quite the opposite, for awhile bree was a wasteland and since ftp its jammed with people and tons of people spamming channles left and right. So for this server its seems to be quite packed(almost every zone seems pretty active). Ive been playing on this server since beta and it seems to me its more filled then ever.

Also why does everyone still insist on saying Turbine isnt giving content? Maybe my memory is botched but since FTP it seems we have been getting way more updates,free content etc.

And also even if the game is declining, when the hobbit comes out there will certainly be a huge influx of players or at least people who want to check it out. Im sure there will be licensed Hobbit games people will want to play when the movie comes out but i think alot of people will be looking into LOTRO.

And as others have said Turbines MMO's last. Im hoping that when the game does go offline(someday it will, hopefully not for 10 years)but since they are making alot of the game soloable, hopefully they can find away to make it playable offline at home.

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Originally Posted by DreadSith

Is it my imagination or does it seem the game is declining more and more. When ftp came out there was a large surge in players, new servers etc. It seems like many people that are on my friends list no longer play. Also when I go into towns such as Bree, Thorins Hall, Michel Delving, they are all ghost towns. :(

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Here's the thing, though. It is impossible to draw conclusions based on feelings and anecdotes. Bree is pretty busy on my server (Riddermark) and I see a fair amount of folks running around the Shire and Ered Luin as well.

My observations don't prove anything either as I am unable to be on every single server, 24 hours a day in every single zone in the game at once. I rather doubt anyone is able to do that.

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Originally Posted by DreadSith

I very well could be completely wrong, but my gut tells me they will start merging servers inside a year, and we all know that the merging of servers means the game is in the coffin waiting for burial.

I am curious if anyone else seems to feel this is happening?

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I'm not trying to be snippy or rude, but I think you are just making a heck of a lot of assumptions. The only people who have all the facts about server population, log ins, and subscriptions are the folks at Turbine and I doubt that is information they release to the general public.

We see these threads pop up from time to time, they don't really serve a purpose as you can see from the replies. I suspect this comes due to the recent announcement that one of the titles mentioned by the OP did in fact announce a server merge. It' wasn't us, we announced a transition to a Global Serivce.