Why are trained masteries "not happening"?

OK, so I've read two things from Orion

1) "everything can still change" - meaning that very big changes are quite possible, given a good thought process ( to be honest, this was in the minstrel forum, but I think it adequately represents Orion's point of view on class changes)
2) "This is not happening." - in reference to the thought that it would be nice if masteries were trained skills rather than traited.

Having played warden for quite some time, I'm just failing to see how any look at warden would lead one to believe that masteries were truly optional. Now I'm not specifically asking for them to be trainable (though that would be nice), I"m just curious as to the thought process behind it that decision.

Turbine, Orion, whomever...
Why is it out of the question that masteries be trained skills?

Because it would make Wardens better. We can't have that.

My guess? No one from dev team play a warden as main toon. Or even close to that. "Our" Orion is playing mini and champ? I don't remember. IMO warden isn't a good class to be an alt.

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Originally Posted by Liltaro

My guess? No one from dev team play a warden as main toon. Or even close to that. "Our" Orion is playing mini and champ? I don't remember. IMO warden isn't a good class to be an alt.

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Occam's Razor may apply here; from some of the traits we have, some gear we've had, and set bonuses that we've had all throughout the Warden's history I have a hard time believing that anyone at Turbine spends their main playing time behind a Warden.

It's a given that they don't understand the class whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by thunderchickn

...from some of the traits we have...

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Skill and... you know what?:)
P.S. Why shield piercer, why?!

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Originally Posted by Liltaro

P.S. Why shield piercer, why?!

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To make us think that with reduced block we'll be able to hit the target ...

* le sigh at Turbine

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Originally Posted by Cebra

To make us think that with reduced block we'll be able to hit the target ...

* le sigh at Turbine

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I don't even look at this fancy finesse stat. With power attack line (with WT) as main dps line I don't have BPE events on mobs. Almost. Misses? That's a mess. One miss and whole rotation is screwed.

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Originally Posted by Liltaro

I don't even look at this fancy finesse stat. With power attack line (with WT) as main dps line I don't have BPE events on mobs. Almost. Misses? That's a mess. One miss and whole rotation is screwed.

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Turbine thought "ok so we know the loss of passives and agility are gonna make them miss more, so what we'll do is reduce the cooldown on a jav skill that makes the target block less thereby making the player think he has a better chance to hurt it, good idea chaps, brilliant hahahahahahhahahah".

The Warden players sighed and thought to themselves "###?"

Yesterday I felt a little angry after two missed WT. One from BM - 5% morale cost. My adversary was simple dunlending near Grimbold's camp. Only damage he got was quick thrust and some autoattacks. As I'm saying, my a little angry warden has finished him with bunch of Quick Thrusts. I didn't saw a big difference in my dps. Devs about 900 damage, crits +-500-600. And with this "rotation" you don't need any mastery. Lol:)

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Originally Posted by Liltaro

Yesterday I felt a little angry after two missed WT. One from BM - 5% morale cost. My adversary was simple dunlending near Grimbold's camp. Only damage he got was quick thrust and some autoattacks. As I'm saying, my a little angry warden has finished him with bunch of Quick Thrusts. I didn't saw a big difference in my dps. Devs about 900 damage, crits +-500-600. And with this "rotation" you don't need any mastery. Lol:)

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Admit it, you used Shield Piercer didn't you? :P

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Originally Posted by Cebra

Admit it, you used Shield Piercer didn't you? :P

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Maybe:).
You have to pull with something.

IMO shield piercer would make a great skill if it was changed to debuff targets finesse by 1800 at 75. I know that finesse doesn't start until 66 so maybe it should be a skill upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Drglory

IMO shield piercer would make a great skill if it was changed to debuff targets finesse by 1800 at 75. I know that finesse doesn't start until 66 so maybe it should be a skill upgrade.

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I like it! One could argue that a pilum sticking out of one's shield would equally lower one's Finesse as it would disable blocking. Instead of debuffing avoidance (which our Finesse score now already accomplishes), why not debuff offence?! If the mechanic had to be debuffing defence, it could debuff mitigations.

I'm spending more and more time on my champ, but I agree - none of the devs are playing a warden as a main. Which makes one wonder why the class was invented in the first place.

Training masteries would make so much more sense than having to relearn everything at 50. And I miss my JoDF! I was in Trollshaws - that place everything is grey - catching up on however many number of quests. Had an escort. Had to do it three times, because I needed a ranged physical AoE.

Ah, well. Can't free up a slot for JoDF, too much work goes into the quests that lead up to WoTW, nobody uses it, we'll *force* them to use it, bwahahahaha!

Ofcourse no dev has a warden main which is why this change is "not happening". When masteries were introduced first, it was thought that wardens will only be slotting 1 mastery to go with the trait line they are using. We the community saw how these masteries were a must have for the class and we started slotting all 3 which turbine was not expecting. The "fix" Turbine had for this issue was placing all 3 masteries on Way of the Warden.

I think with the newly announced changes, its clear they're trying to create a mastery-optional playstyle. The 1-5% partial BPE buff on basic builders clearly shows they expect some wardens to eschew masteries for manual building in some situations.

Whether or not they actually make it a viable alternative to masteries, we'll see, but they're obviously trying to, which is why you wont get trainable masteries.

Put these new single builder defensive buffs onto masteries and have them combined e.g. 3-1 mastery gives both parry and evade % increase, we get out defenses up quicker while building gambits and it solves the issue of not having defenses up before a fight, now we can get them up while running in and building on the run.

Boost the damage on our single icon builders significantly and I'm talking 100 - 200% BUT increase the power usage and our dps increases too with the old gating mechanic being power consumption.

Silly idea?

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Originally Posted by Cebra

Put these new single builder defensive buffs onto masteries and have them combined e.g. 3-1 mastery gives both parry and evade % increase, we get out defenses up quicker while building gambits and it solves the issue of not having defenses up before a fight, now we can get them up while running in and building on the run.

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I think you missed something here. Each builder gives +1% to each partial.

If they won't budge on masteries being tied to WotW, at least make WotW a useful skill.

I would be OK with masteries being gated by traits IF turbine would provide some sort of reasoning or thought process behind it. I mean even with all masteries slotted we're obviously not OP, but it is an annoyance and a bit of a hinderance. I can kinda understand with the new double-builder masteries, what with Potency and all, but I don't understand why they feel it so necessary to gate our 6 "core" masteries.

Right now all it does is take up 1 legendary slot. Considering how lack-luster most warden legendaries are this isn't an issue, but it does prevent the customization of builds and just gives the whole warden trait set a cookie-cutter feel. Everyone slots the same legendaries (GMWT, WotW, Capstone), and generally the same 5 traits of either the blue or red line. A bit of customization would be wonderful :)

They are not being made into trainable skills, right now, because we have made the decision to not make them trainable skills. In the future, which is more distant than I can comment on, masteries might end up being given out differently. For the immediate and near future, they are not being changed - hence my comment on it not happening.

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Originally Posted by Orion

They are not being made into trainable skills, right now, because we have made the decision to not make them trainable skills. In the future, which is more distant than I can comment on, masteries might end up being given out differently. For the immediate and near future, they are not being changed - hence my comment on it not happening.

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You don't understand our class at all.

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Originally Posted by Bruiwen

You don't understand our class at all.

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says the level 40 warden

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Originally Posted by Orion

They are not being made into trainable skills, right now, because we have made the decision to not make them trainable skills. In the future, which is more distant than I can comment on, masteries might end up being given out differently. For the immediate and near future, they are not being changed - hence my comment on it not happening.

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Lazlo: Why?
Orion: Because.


Alrightythen.

I didn't create this thread to beg for the change right away or to have a "hate on orion" thread. I do appreciate that wardens have a dev that would actually respond at all. I simply wanted to hear the thought process. Knowing the thought process tends to decrease the amount of angst and whatnot. It's a bit disheartening to hear a "because" to an honest question. "what can't you do it right now" is a different question than "why can't it be done". I was asking the latter, not the former. But perhaps it wasn't ever considered at all, and that's why there is no answer to why.