Warg Rotations/Traits

My Warg is currently r7 with 12 Aud. At the moment, I am taking a much needed break from the game....during this time, I would like to (or at least attempt to) find out info to improve on playing my class. Generally, while out in the current Moors, I feel like cannon fodder, partially my own fault because I senselessly charge into raids. I also tend to struggle with 1v1s unless it's a Hunter.

So, I have 3 questions:

Traits:

I've decided to go with the Laurelin build from The Art of Warg's site. Is this still a good option in current moors right now?

Rotation:

Currently, in Shadow, I use Pounce>Maul>Claws>Slow or, if fighting a Burg or LM, I use Maul>Slow>Claws? Are either of these any good? Can anyone suggest a better rotation?

Thirdly and finally, for Flayer, does anyone have any rotation suggestions?

Wargs have little survivability at the moment. Even in Flayer stance, which focuses on making the warg tougher, there is little in the way of real survivability. A freep with half decent gear can punch through Flayer's defences quite easily. In short don't expect to live very long as a warg if you are targeted and don't have Disappear/Sprint available. Because of this lack of survivability I tend to be an advocate of a good defence being a good offence. Hence the Laurelin Build.

I have recently been using a Flayer build with a focus on morale, critical protection and some extra mitigations thrown in. I have been primarily using this setup in raids. Does it work? Not really. It allows me to survive where I might otherwise have died through being targeted by the enemy raid IF I am spam healed by my own raid in time. In other words it gives my raid's healers a little extra time to help me, but ultimately I am still relying on spam healing, just as I would be if I were using a damage build.

I am probably going to go back to the all out damage setup I used in the past. I am going to be squishy anyway, it is just degrees of squishyness with wargs at the moment, so I might as well have damage if I can't have survivability.


In terms of your rotation I would suggest going with a tried and tested setup:

Shadow Pack (if possible)>Pounce>Crippling Bite>Bestial Claws (Maul if Burger)>Rend Flesh(if available)>Bestial Claws/Maul (repeat)

I would recommend applying a slow to your target as soon as possible; you want the target under control, not running around dictating the fight. Also I tend to Pounce burgers these days. If they burn Find Footing on that initial stun they effectively waste its heal and you can then go ahead and stun them again, all the while hitting them through the +50% Evade buff because of Shadow stance. As for debuffs such as silences, etc I would suggest using them when possible, but don't get bogged down trying to debuff a freep because the whole time you will be taking damage without doing much in return (and of course some of our debuffs aren't great to begin with).

Well ...when it comes to corruptions i go for the glass cannon build.

Morale for power tier 2
Damage for power tier 2
and the rest ....critical rating!

As for the rotation? pretty much the same that you said.
Shadow....obviusly .

Wargs pee!! 1st of all , if you have time in your favor ...it doesnt break your stealh and gives a nice debuff on the target.

Pounce, maul , slow ..and then a spam of claw and the critical response attack (wich i always forget the name :P )
Debuffs are also very good ...but only when you are fighting classes with high survivality like champions or minstrels.

Possitional damage and knowing how to move its pretty much they key , especialy if your enemy "doesnt" know how to move...


as for flayer? i dont like it, wargs are the only creep class that can use stealh, why changing to flyer? you sacrifice a lot of dps for a bit of survivality and no stealh? naa
but thats my opinion.
Flyer its a different play stile, and needs special traits and strategy.

would any warg mind posting their mitigation values (%s, not ratings) with flayer active, armour trait, and improved flayer? So no mit corruptions or delving pot.

As far as a dps rotation in shadow:
Pee
Pounce
Maul
eye rake
claws
cripple
rend
claws
rend
claws
rend
claws
eye rake
rend


Add your debuffs and/or a cripple/pounce or cooldowns as you see fit based on opponent.

If maul didn't crit, use it the moment it comes off cooldown, until it crits.

Movement is what matters on a warg.

If you have piercing claws, use that after the first maul, and then use it every time it comes off cd, unless the target is under 9k max morale or so, then ignore the skill.

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Originally Posted by spelunker

would any warg mind posting their mitigation values (%s, not ratings) with flayer active, armour trait, and improved flayer? So no mit corruptions or delving pot.

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Using the enhanced version of Flayer stance, the Armour Boost trait, and with no buffs or mitigation corruptions, my warg has the following values:

Physical Mitigation: 47% for Ancient Dwarf, Beleriand & Westernesse damage
Tactical Mitigation: 45% for acid & fire damage, 46.3% for frost, light & lightning damage, and 52.1% for shadow damage

Using the standard version of Flayer stance, with the Armour Boost trait, no buffs and no mitigation corruptions, my warg has the following values:

Physical Mitigation: 41.8% for Ancient Dwarf, Beleriand & Weresternesse damage
Tactical Mitigation: 39.1% for acid & fire damage, 40.7% for frost, light & lightning damage, and 47.4% for shadow damage

Note: My warg has both the passive armour traits, which give an extra 767 armour value.

Thanks for the good info guys.

I would add that I am now in the mind-set of de-buff before DPS in my solo roaming unless I expect to burn through them almost before the stun wears out.

I used to be like an earlier poster and think that time taken to de-buff was better spent actually doing DPS but having tested for some time and having spoken to those I fight on the other side at times, I have reverted to always getting off Savage Fangs, Fleas and Snap ASAP in fights.

It is hard to state an exact rotation as it can vary on the class you face but in general for me (in Shadow) it is SP > Pounce > Maul > Cripple > Savage Fangs > Eye Rake > Snap > Fleas > DPS time! You should now have them well de-buffed (and many freeps I have spoken too particulaly hate Fleas and Snap being on them) and barring resists/avoids also have 2 bleeds ticking away as well. After that it is really about using Maul/Claws/Rend and staying behind them all the time that wins fights.

If they are a minstrel then Throat Rip comes after Eye Rake. It can be worth using Rabid on Champs you expect to go popping CD's but tbh they often have so much power it doesn't help ^^

I am back out of favor with Flayer at the moment, preferring to slot Element of Suprise, (which I have previously dissed) the defensive benefits do not outweigh the DPS nerf in my opinion, I run 3 crit, 1 crit protection, HfP2 and DfP2

'Claws' in any stance is a 'fast' skill, it suffers no post-delay, any skill used after it will fire instantly; most noticable with shadow pack [the -mit pool] can be fired off without delay in combat (bestial claws -> shadow pack -> eye rake, your leg will barely raise to pee).

'Eye Rake' used to speed up your own rotation/skip animations (i.e. after using shadow pack)

'Piercing Claws' usefullness is based on how much morale your opponent has (I typicly ignore the skill if its less then 10k) although it will do 10% instead of 5% on a crit. so theres that.

As for an attack rotation, claw and maul have that nifty crit bonus in shadow stance from 'element of suprise' the other attacks are just filler when those are down.

(sense im here I might as well throw in my plea to have all flayer wargs report 'raking claw brute bonus' as bugged. a debuff we have no control over, that will overwrite/supercede our -atk speed debuffs, it should not be in the same category, being an induction debuff that we only really need for an LMs water-lore [not saying that flayer will help you vs an LM])

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Originally Posted by Insane979

flayer will help you vs an LM

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You heard it here first!! :p

Hopefully they will sort that bug out in the expansion :)

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Originally Posted by Hendos

I would add that I am now in the mind-set of de-buff before DPS in my solo roaming unless I expect to burn through them almost before the stun wears out.

I used to be like an earlier poster and think that time taken to de-buff was better spent actually doing DPS but having tested for some time and having spoken to those I fight on the other side at times, I have reverted to always getting off Savage Fangs, Fleas and Snap ASAP in fights.

It is hard to state an exact rotation as it can vary on the class you face but in general for me (in Shadow) it is SP > Pounce > Maul > Cripple > Savage Fangs > Eye Rake > Snap > Fleas > DPS time! You should now have them well de-buffed (and many freeps I have spoken too particulaly hate Fleas and Snap being on them) and barring resists/avoids also have 2 bleeds ticking away as well. After that it is really about using Maul/Claws/Rend and staying behind them all the time that wins fights.

If they are a minstrel then Throat Rip comes after Eye Rake. It can be worth using Rabid on Champs you expect to go popping CD's but tbh they often have so much power it doesn't help ^^

I am back out of favor with Flayer at the moment, preferring to slot Element of Suprise, (which I have previously dissed) the defensive benefits do not outweigh the DPS nerf in my opinion, I run 3 crit, 1 crit protection, HfP2 and DfP2

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When to use debuffs certainly varies on a case-by-case basis, but when an opponent is stunned is the only time you can guarantee positional damage on them, so unless your opponent is one you know will instantly stun, slow, and kite on you, it really doesn't make sense to use cripple while they're recovering from pounce, this should be your first skill after they turn to face you. Using cripple and savage fangs means your next use of pounce cannot induce a stun without first using cripple again, and since cripple does no damage and both cripple and savage have longer animations, you are essentially taking the bleed damage of cripple/fangs over at least 2, and probably more likely 3 dps skills, which does not come out in your favor. Certainly against induction classes this tradeoff can become more viable, particularly against LMs, since you have no reason to re-cripple for pounce since they will be immune to stuns. I highly recommend NOT using cripple then fangs against any of the melee classes, it just isn't worth it.

Also wargs, please keep in mind the AoE range on fleas, if the player is competent you need to mask it with rabid so they can't simply pot it, but make sure you use it at a time when there is space between you and your opponent. Fleas while in melee range is wasted time that could have been spent doing the only thing wargs can do to survive, dps harder than the freep.

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Originally Posted by Insane979

'Claws' in any stance is a 'fast' skill, it suffers no post-delay, any skill used after it will fire instantly; most noticable with shadow pack [the -mit pool] can be fired off without delay in combat (bestial claws -> shadow pack -> eye rake, your leg will barely raise to pee).

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You mean rend, not claws.

I Disagree because I have been burned far too many times in the past by not crippling inside the stun so that they slow/stun me and then kite or simply escape.

I don't value that 2.5 seconds enough when I can easily and regularly achieve positional in the middle of the fight and by further stuns after the initial.

The amount of DPS lost due to them moving much quicker after the stun far outweighs the amount you could do in that tiny stun window, especially taking into account audacity reductions.

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Originally Posted by spelunker

You mean rend, not claws.

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I mean claws; although the skill does not state 'fast' it operates the same as a burglars crit chain. (Burglars advantage, double edged strike)

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Originally Posted by Hendos

I Disagree because I have been burned far too many times in the past by not crippling inside the stun so that they slow/stun me and then kite or simply escape.

I don't value that 2.5 seconds enough when I can easily and regularly achieve positional in the middle of the fight and by further stuns after the initial.

The amount of DPS lost due to them moving much quicker after the stun far outweighs the amount you could do in that tiny stun window, especially taking into account audacity reductions.

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I also apply Crippling Bite whilst the target is stunned from my initial Pounce. Slowing the target as soon as possible is invaluable imho. Perhaps this isn't the most efficient strategy in terms of damage output, but years of experience have shown me that it increases my odds of getting the kill.

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Originally Posted by MrWarg

Slowing the target as soon as possible is invaluable imho.

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This is a good point right here. And a key issue for my gameplay as well.

Generally, when I lost 1v1s, it was usually because I couldn't keep up with mobile targets.

Thanks again for the good info all, and thanks MrWarg for that tip right there. Awesome site btw, don't know if I've ever said it.

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Originally Posted by Selebrimbor

This is a good point right here. And a key issue for my gameplay as well.

Generally, when I lost 1v1s, it was usually because I couldn't keep up with mobile targets.

Thanks again for the good info all, and thanks MrWarg for that tip right there. Awesome site btw, don't know if I've ever said it.

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I think many, perhaps even most, wargs think of Crippling Bite's slow purely in terms of making sure they can keep up with a target so that they can actually hit him. That is of course a very practical way of looking at Crippling Bite.

However, there is another viewpoint to consider and that revolves around the idea of Crippling Bite as a form of crowd control, with the key word being 'control'. When I slow a target I am not just making it easier for myself to hit that target, I am dictating to my opponent the terms on which the fight will take place. A good warg should look to control a fight, not merely react to what his opponent is doing.

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Originally Posted by MrWarg

Wargs have little survivability at the moment. Even in Flayer stance, which focuses on making the warg tougher, there is little in the way of real survivability. A freep with half decent gear can punch through Flayer's defences quite easily. In short don't expect to live very long as a warg if you are targeted and don't have Disappear/Sprint available. Because of this lack of survivability I tend to be an advocate of a good defence being a good offence. Hence the Laurelin Build.

I have recently been using a Flayer build with a focus on morale, critical protection and some extra mitigations thrown in. I have been primarily using this setup in raids. Does it work? Not really. It allows me to survive where I might otherwise have died through being targeted by the enemy raid IF I am spam healed by my own raid in time. In other words it gives my raid's healers a little extra time to help me, but ultimately I am still relying on spam healing, just as I would be if I were using a damage build.

I am probably going to go back to the all out damage setup I used in the past. I am going to be squishy anyway, it is just degrees of squishyness with wargs at the moment, so I might as well have damage if I can't have survivability.


In terms of your rotation I would suggest going with a tried and tested setup:

Shadow Pack (if possible)>Pounce>Crippling Bite>Bestial Claws (Maul if Burger)>Rend Flesh(if available)>Bestial Claws/Maul (repeat)

I would recommend applying a slow to your target as soon as possible; you want the target under control, not running around dictating the fight. Also I tend to Pounce burgers these days. If they burn Find Footing on that initial stun they effectively waste its heal and you can then go ahead and stun them again, all the while hitting them through the +50% Evade buff because of Shadow stance. As for debuffs such as silences, etc I would suggest using them when possible, but don't get bogged down trying to debuff a freep because the whole time you will be taking damage without doing much in return (and of course some of our debuffs aren't great to begin with).

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Eh, good flayer wargs can shred /most/ dps. I say most because rks are pretty much always a dps race. But the flayer wargs on my server trait for mitigation and destroy most physical classes.

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Originally Posted by jackzilla1212

Eh, good flayer wargs can shred /most/ dps. I say most because rks are pretty much always a dps race. But the flayer wargs on my server trait for mitigation and destroy most physical classes.

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I wasn't specifically talking about dps classes. It is also worth pointing out that I was also speaking about Flayer in a generalised sense as it applies to the warg as a class. As such I stand by my comments. I imagine there are situations where a Flayer warg can be effective, but when looking at it from the point of view of the class as a whole it doesn't offer as much bang for your buck at the moment as it should imho. For example, a low to mid-rank warg probably isn't going to get as much out of Flayer stance as a high ranked warg will.

I did, however, mention a particular Flayer build that I had been trying myself. It doesn't sound as if the build I was using is the same as the build the wargs you mention are using though.

As to the point you made I am very pleased to hear that wargs on your server are doing well with Flayer against dps classes. It is hard to draw worthwhile conclusions though since your comments are anecdotal. Could you perhaps expand upon them a bit? What specific setups are those wargs using? What sort of equipment do the freeps have? Are you talking about 1vs1 fights or group fights? Etc.

Please don't think I am trying to attack your point, I am genuinely interested in finding out what the wargs on your server are doing. Any information you can provide would be most appreciated.

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Originally Posted by MrWarg

I wasn't specifically talking about dps classes. It is also worth pointing out that I was also speaking about Flayer in a generalised sense as it applies to the warg as a class. As such I stand by my comments. I imagine there are situations where a Flayer warg can be effective, but when looking at it from the point of view of the class as a whole it doesn't offer as much bang for your buck at the moment as it should imho. For example, a low to mid-rank warg probably isn't going to get as much out of Flayer stance as a high ranked warg will.

I did, however, mention a particular Flayer build that I had been trying myself. It doesn't sound as if the build I was using is the same as the build the wargs you mention are using though.

As to the point you made I am very pleased to hear that wargs on your server are doing well with Flayer against dps classes. It is hard to draw worthwhile conclusions though since your comments are anecdotal. Could you perhaps expand upon them a bit? What specific setups are those wargs using? What sort of equipment do the freeps have? Are you talking about 1vs1 fights or group fights? Etc.

Please don't think I am trying to attack your point, I am genuinely interested in finding out what the wargs on your server are doing. Any information you can provide would be most appreciated.

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No it's fine. There are a few wargs on my server that only go flayer, so they had to perfect the build. I will ask them myself when they get in game, but I believe it's something like a 4 physical mitigation and 2 morale corruption set up with the appropriate class traits. Some of them only trait like that solo but one of the highest ranked wargs on my server is also a raid leader and stays traited like that because she needs to stay alive. And she is about as hard to bring down as a reaver, more so if you are not a dps class.

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Originally Posted by jackzilla1212

No it's fine. There are a few wargs on my server that only go flayer, so they had to perfect the build. I will ask them myself when they get in game, but I believe it's something like a 4 physical mitigation and 2 morale corruption set up with the appropriate class traits. Some of them only trait like that solo but one of the highest ranked wargs on my server is also a raid leader and stays traited like that because she needs to stay alive. And she is about as hard to bring down as a reaver, more so if you are not a dps class.

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I have a hard time believing any creep, particularly a flayer warg could put out enough damage to make a dent in even a squishy dps class solo, with no damage increasing corruptions. In the most basic sense, going flayer vs shadow is fairly similar in terms of survivability gained vs dps lost, but that is before you calculate the loss in attack speed from a shadow stance maul crit. Also a primary part of both a flayer and shadow stance wargs arsenal is getting a stun and doing positional damage while their foe cannot fight back, and this is an instance where all the added mits make no difference. A creep with no damage increasing corruptions is like getting hit with a rolled newspaper from what I've seen, I just don't see the meagre gains in mitigations those corruptions provide being remotely worth the loss in damage.

I'd be very interested in hearing these people chime in, or freeps who have faced them do the same. Since RoR I don't think I've faced a single flayer warg who I think could kill me using all their cooldowns, while i didn't touch a heal or reflect, if I gave them 100 tries. In the same scenario, i there are a few shadow wargs who I think would pull out a win a decent number of times in the same situation.

Obviously a raid leader needs to prioritize their survival over dps compared to other classes, but that allows them to effectively lead, not effectively contribute as a dps class.

Hi all,

My name's Atoktal (Attie) from Landroval and I am the high ranked warg Hinras is talking about. I only use flayer stance while I am both in a raid and solo. My corruptions vary, as I've told Hinras this. My normal build for awhile was health for power ranks 1 & 2, and 4 crit ratings. This let me do at least some damage with a bit more survivability. However, I did trait the 5 physical mitigations and health for power rank 2 for about a month and a half and that makes me last considerably longer in both a raid situation and a solo situation. However, this build does no damage virtually. So I switched back recently to my former build and have been playing around with slotting masterys, crit ratings, and physical mitigations. I have found out that slotting 2 physical mitigations, health for power ranks 1 & 2 , and 2 crit ratings seem to be a somewhat balance between survivability and damage output. (You can also exchange a mastery for a crit rating to get a little difference in damage but it isn't much).

I always make sure I have enhanced flayer slotted and I also throw an extra armour boost to give me a better chance at survival. I also play around with traiting shadow damage. I find that it sometimes is helpful and sometimes it is not. Again, it depends on whom you are fighting and what the situation is. I have yet to find a build that I truly like. So far the one that I am happy with the most is the one with 4 crit ratings and the 2 healths but, the build that has 2, 2, and 2, is at a close second.

I do not use shadow at all. I know that some of you will be like "Shun the non believer!" and that is okay. I get really frustrated when I just blow up and die in a fight. I rather be able to stay alive in a fight and actually fight it out, even if I know that the outcome is my losing which happens often. The longer I can stay alive, the longer I can study my opponent and learn how they operate and eventually I (hope) can find a weakness that I can use to my advantage.

As for my rotation, that too varies and depends on the situation. Basically I will (when solo) go around in stealth with no stance and when I see a target that I believe I stand a chance with, I: pounce > flayer> eye rake> crippling bite> rabid bite> fleas> snap> brutal fangs/maul (whatever comes up first) > claws> crippling bite> pounce> howl of unnerving> eye rake>piercing claws (etc...) you catch my drift. Depending on whom I'm fighting, this differs. For example if I am fighting a LM I try to save my eye rakes and pounces for when they try to spam waterlore.

I hope this helped some of you and I'm excited to hear what you have to say. I am always looking for new tips and tricks to learn because I'm constantly looking to improve.

Love,

Attie

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Originally Posted by Smallishone

My normal build for awhile was health for power ranks 1 & 2, and 4 crit ratings. This let me do at least some damage with a bit more survivability. However, I did trait the 5 physical mitigations and health for power rank 2 for about a month and a half and that makes me last considerably longer in both a raid situation and a solo situation. However, this build does no damage virtually. So I switched back recently to my former build and have been playing around with slotting masterys, crit ratings, and physical mitigations. I have found out that slotting 2 physical mitigations, health for power ranks 1 & 2 , and 2 crit ratings seem to be a somewhat balance between survivability and damage output. (You can also exchange a mastery for a crit rating to get a little difference in damage but it isn't much).

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I have tried various Flayer builds myself in the past, with mixed results. I agree with you regrading the mitigation & morale Flayer build: the trade-off between damage and survivability with that build isn't worth it so I am not surprised that you switched back. I found Flayer builds that focus on damage/critical boosts to be more effective. However, my experience with such builds varied. On the one hand such builds could work very well in some situations, but in others I simply didn't feel that Flayer was giving me enough protection.

It is also worth considering how well a Flayer build will work for the majority of wargs. Both you and I have rank 13 wargs and certain Flayer builds might work out well for us with our extra morale, incoming healing, etc. What about a lower ranked warg though? This relates to the point I was making earlier in the thread; Flayer builds can still be squishy builds. Unfortunately I think most wargs would find it difficult to make a Flayer build work well.

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I do not use shadow at all. I know that some of you will be like "Shun the non believer!" and that is okay. I get really frustrated when I just blow up and die in a fight. I rather be able to stay alive in a fight and actually fight it out, even if I know that the outcome is my losing which happens often. The longer I can stay alive, the longer I can study my opponent and learn how they operate and eventually I (hope) can find a weakness that I can use to my advantage.

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I can certainly understand how you feel! Having said that I haven't fared too badly when using Shadow builds when it comes to survival. I think that comes down to practice though; recognising how far you can push your warg in a Shadow build. Shadow builds tend to suffer from the opposite problem to Flayer builds imho, namely that they don't offer enough damage to compensate for the hit in survivability they make you take.

I agree with you 100%. Flayer is not for everyone and I know a lot of people who abhor it. As for the lower ranked wargs, they are squishy, period. It doesn't matter what stance they use, they will die no matter what. In my honest opinion, I believe wargs are broken right now. I agree what you said about not offering enough damage to compensate for the hit in survivability that wargs take. I however believe that this is for all wargs regardless of stance. When people ask me how I trait for my warg I tell them pretty much the same as I've posted here but, I also let them know that if they don't like to die then warg isn't for them.

And as for shadow, I have had pretty much 0 practice with it and that's my own fault. I bought flayer when I was rank 3 or 5 (I don't remember) because people on my server told me to. I would like to learn how to use it properly and develop a rotation that works but, I rarely get the chance to.

Love,

Attie

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Originally Posted by Smallishone

And as for shadow, I have had pretty much 0 practice with it and that's my own fault. I bought flayer when I was rank 3 or 5 (I don't remember) because people on my server told me to. I would like to learn how to use it properly and develop a rotation that works but, I rarely get the chance to.

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I was rank 10 before ROI so I had the old Shadow Howler stance, which meant I had a bit of practice with a non-stealth stance when Flayer was introduced. I used to enjoy using Shadow Howler, which is probably why I am still interested iin finding a good Flayer build. Having said that I usually recommend a Shadow build to other wargs, especially low ranked wargs. I think a Shadow build gives them the best 'value for money' at the moment. That isn't to say a Shadow build is perfect, you have to give up a fair bit to use it. For example, even at high ranks a Shadow warg will have trouble taking on the likes of Champions, Lore-masters, etc because the build is just too squishy. So you tend to find that a Shadow warg simply has to ignore some freeps and focus on the squishier ones instead.

I am going to give your build a try though and see how it works out. :)

If you're still looking for (1v1) advice, I've had a fair amount of success against LMs using the following (shadow) rotation: crippling bite > savage fangs > maul > snap > claws > fleas > rend > and then just rotating claws, rend and maul whenever they are up, saving pounce and eye rake for interrupting inductions. A lot of people overlook the induction debuff of savage fangs, but I find it to be quite useful, especially since your fleas will most likely be cured.

As for using Flayer, I'm traited for damage and usually run shadow. However, sometimes I will switch to flayer when fighting a poor gaurdain with 20k morale, or a poor hunter who spams pen shot. In either case, the goal is to outlast them. Survive the hunters initial bust damage, and then kill them once they're out of focus. Against the guardian, outlast his bleeds and keep your 5 (or however many will stack) bleeds up, making sure to use piercing claws and rend whenever up for some dps. Overall, two cases is not a whole lot of usefulness out of the stance, but it is nice to have the option of switching when maul > claws > rend > claws > rend > claws > rend gets old.

I still haven't found anything that works very well against burglars, but the general shadow rotation that others have posted should be sufficient to at least come close to killing everything else who plays fairly.

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Originally Posted by MisterSmiles

If you're still looking for (1v1) advice, I've had a fair amount of success against LMs using the following (shadow) rotation: crippling bite > savage fangs > maul > snap > claws > fleas > rend > and then just rotating claws, rend and maul whenever they are up, saving pounce and eye rake for interrupting inductions. A lot of people overlook the induction debuff of savage fangs, but I find it to be quite useful, especially since your fleas will most likely be cured.

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This is an excellent piece of advice on the use of Savage Fangs. I think you are correct in saying that it is easy to overlook the induction debuff, but it is definitely worth using, especially as saving the Crippling Bite debuff for a stun with Pounce is often pointless against Lore-masters because of anti-stun.

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I still haven't found anything that works very well against burglars, but the general shadow rotation that others have posted should be sufficient to at least come close to killing everything else who plays fairly.

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A Flayer build with as much survivability from corruptions as possible can work well in my experience. Mind you I have also had success with using Flayer coupled with a damage build. Your results may vary of course, but it might be worth giving these options a try if you haven't already.