Runekeeper healing

Like most of u people know rk heals arent as good as mini heals not even close.
For rk being a heal/dps class i think they could get better heals i dont think a rk can heal a tank in a t2 raid i know they are based on Heals Over Time and not burst heals like a minstril but i would like to see them heal raids also the runestone that they get only heals 245 morale every 3 secons i dont think that does anything in a raid 245 morale heal doesnt let u live longer when a mobs hit u with 5k damage i think the amount should be 500 or something or give rks a legacy for it i would like to see legacys for longer HOTs to to just make the heal over times alot better also the bubbles are kinda weak they should max them absorb more damage they cant get higher then around 6k same with the other stuff it doesnt matter alot a 6k bubble on a mob or boss in a raid that hits 10k+ is kinda useless.

I hope you guys change the rk heals and make them better cause i would like to heal as a rk.

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Rks can heal t2c but its harder then mini's they just spam bolster courage and rks need to spam their skills and when the tank is on 10k morale and he has 30k morale they cant heal it with just 1 skill

I would have to disagree that RK can't heal T2C content. My RK is a primary healer, I don't play dps at all unless we have too many healers.
In general, I have 3 tiers of WoH on all 5 members of my group healing for 500 to 2500 per pulse, maintained constantly. In addition, I have a healstone and soakstone out whenever needed. I can drop individual bubbles or AoE bubbles that are quite strong when fully attuned.

With HD, healing is very active for a RK. You need to be using skills constantly to be effective. Have a lul with no damage?, refresh your WoH for your group. More spare time?, WoH the other group. After that? Drop some other HoT on any heavies in your group. You should never be idle as an effective RK healer

After healing as RK for several months, I would personally say I can run T2C content and rarely lose a team member

Any other healing RK out there agree/disagree?

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Originally Posted by Walun

With HD, healing is very active for a RK. You need to be using skills constantly to be effective. Have a lul with no damage?, refresh your WoH for your group. More spare time?, WoH the other group. After that? Drop some other HoT on any heavies in your group. You should never be idle as an effective RK healer

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Very true - an RK healer is very busy and you need to keep busy all the time.

As is the RK is a very competent healer. We have amazing heals if used correctly. Our bubbles are far better then any mini bubble and are on a ridiculously short cd, almost allowing for bubble spam healing. Rousing words is incredibly potent. WoE is very nearly spammable, BI, WoH tiered do amazing heals. I'm not sure why you think we don't heal as well as a mini? I agree with Jean that it's far busier role then playing a mini and involves a lot of prethinking but it always has been that way. You have to be proactive when healing on RK and I find Mini healing to be quite reactive, and therein lies a big chunk of challenge. I love both my mini and my RK but I prefer my healing Rk far better any day.

Well, Rune keeper indeed is a viable healer, but mini is just overpowered for the content, so a comparison there is not useful.
Said that, I have to agree with initial post about rune keepers needing some fixes or just few changes to be as fun as they were:
1- Each expansion Rks kept losing a bit of their essence of healing. When they removed mending verse temporary morale on main target, reduced it duration on RoI expansion I didn't like it, cause it was so good for the proactive style of rune keeper and wasn't overpowered at all since there was no initial healing on mending verse before. Also, I like a bit more EftA as it was on RoI expansion, rather than this HoT and chance of group heal...after all, it's our only burst heal potent enough to save a tank, I'd give it more direct heal instead of HoT and always group heal, but with less magnitude if it's not crit.
2- We got something good. AOE healing is now way easier and bubbles help a lot too to prevent damage. Rousing words got a buff which is nice.
3- Bombastic Inspiration usually is just an overheal unless you use it on a non tank person, because it's too hard to calculate exactly when tank will receive spike damage and apply its effect right then, the idea of this skill is very good, but I suggest increasing duration for end heal to happen (like 15-20s) and add an autotrigger that will happen if your target falls below 50% of its morale, for example.
4- Our Fates entwined runestone is a bad idea, it should just be immune to damage and just absorb that % of damage until it disappears (like 15-20s), right now, if it's needed will just die instantly and won't help, and if it's not needed, just use one rousing words and you don't need that stone at all. About this, ground targetted skills should have a chance to be disabled for some crowded instances, cause it's hard to place them properly.
5- Give us back some damage reduction skills...maybe something like shield of the dunedain with 1 or 1:30 min cooldown and 15-20s duration, I think like 50% damage reduction would be good, no need to have that 80% reduction, would just be OP. And it would be better to have rune sign just turned into a toggle skill for fellowship similar to old fates entwined.
6- Also mending verse should be turned again into non cd skill, with a chance to stack at least 3 on a single target if only doing so...right now it's impossible even to keep 2 stacks on tank all time, a trait for increased pulses and remove cooldown would just do the trick perfectly.

So, rune keeper can heal fine, healing magnitude is good, (maybe mending verse is too weak now), but to be as fun as it was in RoI or even before we should get some changes on skills to make them a bit more useful and get back some damage reduction buffs. Rune keepers should heal less amount than minstrels, but should have good damage reduction skills. Just a small change on some skills and it would be as good as minstrel for healing most content (but no more heal magnitude please, most RKs just want tools, not powerful heals).

Well said Kander. While my initial comment was just to say "Yes we can", I agree with your points. Skill delay/animation induction is a real big thing that needs to be looked at. We can only hope we will see a preview of what changes are in store for U14, but it seems like we will get what we are given and won't find out about anything until it hits Bullroar.

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Originally Posted by Kander

... Also, I like a bit more EftA as it was on RoI expansion, rather than this HoT and chance of group heal...after all, it's our only burst heal potent enough to save a tank, I'd give it more direct heal instead of HoT and always group heal, but with less magnitude if it's not crit.

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I think that any kind of healing mechanics that relies on crits or procs need to be "icing on the cake" rather than something we rely on. With that I think having EftA giving its critical healing as a HoT rather than as a direct heal is actually a good thing and it reduces the amount of overhealing that would otherwise occur. Sure, I wouldn't mind more punch in EftA but if it's just wasted on overhealing then why bother?

Maybe EftA should be changed to something like: Critical Heals with Epic for the Ages will convert any overhealing done (by EftA) into a short duration morale bubble (or HoT).

Why do people dislike overhealing so much ? As long power is not a problem, it's fine imo. Overhealing shows that your class is superior for the curent content. :)
I'm playing online games for over 10 years, and in the every game I've tried, Hots are the best healing method and do the most hps, but you need to spam them. Wards\baubles are the best untispikes, and reactives and direct healing are the most convinient, but no as much powerfull as the other two methods.

I belive RK is a great healer, the best healer in the game actually( If we talk about the raw healing output). I do not play much these days, but during Moria times I solohealed two groups in DN, I had no problems in OD, Orthank, I don't have them now in BB or skirmishes.

Walun has described the RK healing pretty well here. The class ofcourse has some stuff that need twicking. The duration of some hots could be longer, some traits are bad( 5 points to make NON-COMBAT resurect better is stupid imo), bombastic could use some love and so on. But in general the class is great. I would always choose a RK healer over a Mins for a group content, I would use a RK+Mins, or a RK+Captain, over 2 Mins in a raid. For some reasons the class is unpopular ( may be it's hard to master), but I absolutly love to receive the next tells "Omg, my health almost never droped", or "How do you do this? Last time we were wiping here."

Be proud of your class and never slack. :)

My suggestions:
- fix those delays before some skills like Rousing Words
- not a fan of ground-targeted skills-> give us a choice for EoE & Healing Rune-stone
- Glorious Forshadowing buff should tier down along with Writ of Health
- Replace Determination trait with HoT/MV pluses (+2-3)
- increase healing output if rune-stone is used
- increase range on all healing/bubble skills to 25m
- reduce healing induction by 25%

Light on Ones Feet:
- add inc. healing in addition to evade (upto +5%)

Mending Verse:
- 0s CD
- lower initial heal

Calming Verse:
- maybe add it as a basic skill: -> depending on traitline it has additinal effects
-- -25% power cost
-- lasts for 10s, 90s CD
- Blueline:
-- -25% induction, maybe also healing on the move with induction or MV on the move with no Induction

Prelude to Hope:
- either increase the healing output or make that skill more attractive
-- if player x has PtH, then skill y is more potent or does certain buffs

Our Fates Entwined: not another rune-stone pls, give us our old toggle skill:
- remove Rune-sign of Winter (combined)
- -10% inc. Damage
- Healing Aura around the RK (HoT)
- High Power Consumption over Time, maybe also Moral Cost over Time

Essay/Word of Exaltation:
- add immunity to critical/devastating attacks
- CD: 40s-> 120-180s / 30s -> 40-60s
- dont makes us a bubble spamming class

Bombastic Inspiration:
- remove it completely or revamp it
- maybe something that would replace That Which Does Not Kill Us

Legacies:
- Glorious Foreshadowing Duration -> Bubble Magnitude (upto +25%)
- Word of Exaltation cooldown -> EotA CD reduction (upto -5s)

Utility:
- add Do Not Fall to X
- something unique which other classes cant provide

Totally agree with suggestions provided above. We need some tweaks. Especially I hate those animation delays when using some skills.


Btw, BB jewel (2set) gives you bonus +10% HoTs healing. Don't forget to use that one. Also moors healing set is quite handy.

Overall, IMO - RK is the best healer here, if you play it right, just because mini can't do HoTs (besides one, which is not that good), and if it is stunned - its a window to loose your fellowmate. In combo with yellow cappy and banner - it is almost unkillable (if not turbine bugs on stuns).

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Originally Posted by Leopoldio

Totally agree with suggestions provided above. We need some tweaks. Especially I hate those animation delays when using some skills.


Btw, BB jewel (2set) gives you bonus +10% HoTs healing. Don't forget to use that one. Also moors healing set is quite handy.

Overall, IMO - RK is the best healer here, if you play it right, just because mini can't do HoTs (besides one, which is not that good), and if it is stunned - its a window to loose your fellowmate. In combo with yellow cappy and banner - it is almost unkillable (if not turbine bugs on stuns).

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I don't think RKs are best healers. If you know how to play it you can heal certain instances maybe better than most minstrels, and bubbles are handy, same as HoT, but a bit of the fun of the class is lost, and I don't remember who said RKs have highest HPS, but it's wrong. Minstrels got just 3 skills that would overheal us both single or multi target: Bolster Courage (same magnitude as our EftA but with 0 cooldown and a group heal of 40% of main magnitude always), Triumphant Spirit (group wide, like 7k base heal to each person, instant, 45s cooldown) and either inspire fellows or coda (depending if AOE needed or single target), with only those 3 skills and some self buffs I've seen minstrels sharing Combat Analysis numbers of nearly 15k (without captain) in some raids, while even trying to maximize my HPS on my rk I barely can reach 8k in raids spamming bubble on both groups and writs on other group tiered to max).
Edit: Forgot to add, that in almost every fight with players of similar skill minstrel will outheal rune keepers, but rune keeper heals good, minstrel is just that overpowered that experienced minstrels say it is boring.

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Originally Posted by Kander

I don't think RKs are best healers. If you know how to play it you can heal certain instances maybe better than most minstrels, and bubbles are handy, same as HoT, but a bit of the fun of the class is lost, and I don't remember who said RKs have highest HPS, but it's wrong. Minstrels got just 3 skills that would overheal us both single or multi target: Bolster Courage (same magnitude as our EftA but with 0 cooldown and a group heal of 40% of main magnitude always), Triumphant Spirit (group wide, like 7k base heal to each person, instant, 45s cooldown) and either inspire fellows or coda (depending if AOE needed or single target), with only those 3 skills and some self buffs I've seen minstrels sharing Combat Analysis numbers of nearly 15k (without captain) in some raids, while even trying to maximize my HPS on my rk I barely can reach 8k in raids spamming bubble on both groups and writs on other group tiered to max).
Edit: Forgot to add, that in almost every fight with players of similar skill minstrel will outheal rune keepers, but rune keeper heals good, minstrel is just that overpowered that experienced minstrels say it is boring.

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Not 40%, but 90%, which makes it even more OP, also the group part hits the target as well.
But fellowwide bolster courage is OP enough to break game mechanics, like doing OD fear t2c without moving and letting 4 puddles stack up on everyone, and still outhealing all the damage with ease. BC heals the group for 6k/target on avarage, it can be used around every 2 seconds, so you can have 3k hps on each target by basically spamming a skill (this results in the 21k hps on 7 targets minis can put out, and yes that is a realistic value).

Anyway, I don't think RK hps needs to be higher, it just needs improvements in options to control and time these heals, and it needs more damage-preventing, as that's a key to pro-active healing, just having a bunch of HoTs lack of any imagination.
When I tried RK healing, it were the bubbles that make it fun, because it prevents damage, encourages you to analyse how the fight goes and try to time skills before bad stuff happens.

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Originally Posted by Kander

with only those 3 skills and some self buffs I've seen minstrels sharing Combat Analysis numbers of nearly 15k (without captain) in some raids, while even trying to maximize my HPS on my rk I barely can reach 8k in raids spamming bubble on both groups and writs on other group tiered to max).
Edit: Forgot to add, that in almost every fight with players of similar skill minstrel will outheal rune keepers, but rune keeper heals good, minstrel is just that overpowered that experienced minstrels say it is boring.

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It only because the content is trivial and your hots keep people in green most of the time. You simply have "almost nothing" to heal back, unlike to a minstrel. But I agree, that a RK should be very active during the fight, while a minstrel can throw heals when they are needed and dps, or read forums, the rest of the time :)

Minstrel is more convinient to play, but RK is more powerfull imo.

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Originally Posted by Arabani

It only because the content is trivial and your hots keep people in green most of the time. You simply have "almost nothing" to heal back, unlike to a minstrel. But I agree, that a RK should be very active during the fight, while a minstrel can throw heals when they are needed and dps, or read forums, the rest of the time :)

Minstrel is more convinient to play, but RK is more powerfull imo.

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I would love that was true but...let's think about RKs heals: If you could keep all the time mending verse, prelude, rousing words, Essay of Exaltation heal (not bubble), rune sign, writ T3 with T3 wondrous foreshadowing, bombastic inspiration T3 on everyone, which all of that together is impossible, you could heal more or less the same amount a mini does each 2s by just spamming bolster courage, not using coda, not using triumphant spirit and not using fellowship heart, and also they have proper in combat rezz just in case someone gets 1 shotted (that is the only way someone can die if a good mini is healing).

I've healed a lot of T2 content on my RK and T3 skirms.

You have to remember that RK has more damage preventing skills (bubble up all the time-use it) and the absorbing rock. Mini bubble isn't up as often and they don't have other damage absorbing skills, something that Combat Analysis doesn't track...KWIM.

I do end up taking my mini more than I would like simply because if you are on an RK and the group gets a couple mini's now they won't let me heal and I am a healer at heart. Even if they advertized for healer and I responded as healer they ask me to switch to damage so they can fill the group more quickly, sigh.... If I am running with someone who knows me and not just a random group in GLFF then I get to heal on my RK.

The ideal situation, in my mind, is to have both an RK and Mini. I can instant heal so much better than a mini. I put Bombastic Inspiration on the tank and any aggressive players I know take a lot of damage while the mini is building ballads. Then drop a couple of HOT on the tank and my bubble is at full strength so I put it on the whole group. By that time the mini is fully buffed and running and starts hitting anyone who has taken significant damage. Working together RK and mini is a great combo.

Claira

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Originally Posted by burningflame

if you are on an RK and the group gets a couple mini's now they won't let me heal and I am a healer at heart.
Claira

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So I am. In that kind of a sutuation, I just tell, I'm a healer, I've got no dps spec and a minstrel can go pew pew if he\she wants, or log another toon. It works most of the time:)
And if they insist...there are always a job for a healer somewhere else:)

I strongly believe, any healer can do group content with ease, and having two different healers in a raid is better then two of the same type. The problem is in people's mindsets and superstitions, based on someone's authoritarian opinion.

A bit off topic: Finding a healer spot in a raid as a captain is even harder :) I mean a real solo healer spot, not as a blue line buff bot paired with a minstrel in your group. :)

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Originally Posted by Arabani

A bit off topic: Finding a healer spot in a raid as a captain is even harder :) I mean a real solo healer spot, not as a blue line buff bot paired with a minstrel in your group. :)

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I agree. I was so excited to see HD cappy healing. It was everything I had dreamed about....but no one will let me use it. Once in a while you will find a three man group desperate for a healer that will let you in. Again my friends will also let me heal because they know me. But a raid? It used to be the content was such that the raiding kin I ran with always had two mini's, one RK (focus on the tank) and two healing cappies. I'm no longer in a raiding kin but that set up just isn't needed because the content is too easy. They want two minis and two red line cappies (maybe yellow if they can't find enough tanks).

Claira

Dropping in to say hello!

There are some RK changes coming in update 14 but I wanted to stop by and talk about healing. There are some great suggestions in this thread that we are testing out now but I wanted to start a mini discussion with you all about something that has been mentioned a couple times. What are people's stance on EFTA being an attunement builder versus a cashout?

-Jinjaah

Welcome back Jinjaah!

A cashout probably would help in dps builds to get faster back to damage attunment and in a healing build it could play a similar role like Combustion or Sustaining Bolt.

A faster induction time would be nice if it's gonna be a cashout skill.

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Originally Posted by Jinjaah

Dropping in to say hello!

There are some RK changes coming in update 14 but I wanted to stop by and talk about healing. There are some great suggestions in this thread that we are testing out now but I wanted to start a mini discussion with you all about something that has been mentioned a couple times. What are people's stance on EFTA being an attunement builder versus a cashout?

-Jinjaah

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I honestly don't want EFTA to be a cashout skill. Personally I tend to use this right after or very soon after I use Word of Exaltation so my attunement is already cashed out or nearly so. To this purpose I use it as an emergency heal on a single target so I bubble them first and then work on healing them. Myself and others gave this same feedback during HD Beta.

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Originally Posted by PKCrichton

I honestly don't want EFTA to be a cashout skill. Personally I tend to use this right after or very soon after I use Word of Exaltation so my attunement is already cashed out or nearly so. To this purpose I use it as an emergency heal on a single target so I bubble them first and then work on healing them. Myself and others gave this same feedback during HD Beta.

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I do remember this discussion back in the Beta. Since some people started to bring it up again so I wanted to bring it back up now that people have had time to experience it as a builder.

-Jinjaah

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Originally Posted by PKCrichton

I honestly don't want EFTA to be a cashout skill. Personally I tend to use this right after or very soon after I use Word of Exaltation so my attunement is already cashed out or nearly so. To this purpose I use it as an emergency heal on a single target so I bubble them first and then work on healing them. Myself and others gave this same feedback during HD Beta.

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This is how I use it as well, I think it would lose a lot of its usefulness if it was a cashout skill. It's typically used in an emergency (for me) in the way described above, dropping attunment in an emergency situation would kind of suck.

I don't want EFTA to be a cashout skill either.

Hi Jinjaah. Thank you for stopping by and providing us an update.

Without knowing the changes coming to cashout/attunement/scaling coming with Update 14, it's difficult for me to give a definitive answer. But, that said, if there are no changes coming to EftA in its current form, I'd be against having it as a cashout skill. If there are to be changes (i.e. induction, re-evaluation of group heal on crit only, hot component, etc), then I can see a cashout being warranted.

I more or less use it as the other two posted before me, and, in that situation, it's highly useful to continue to have it as an attunement builder unless there are other changes to the skill.

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Originally Posted by Jinjaah

Dropping in to say hello!

There are some RK changes coming in update 14 but I wanted to stop by and talk about healing. There are some great suggestions in this thread that we are testing out now but I wanted to start a mini discussion with you all about something that has been mentioned a couple times. What are people's stance on EFTA being an attunement builder versus a cashout?

-Jinjaah

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Tbn, EFTA has too long cd, It should be around 5 seconds.