Starting a Captain

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Dec 08 2014, 06:59 PM
elithrar

Starting a Captain
Hi all. Looking to start a Captain and am hoping to get some updated advice. I've dug through what looks like Helm's Deep relevant info on the Cappy, but still have a few questions:
- Red line for my trait build? Red/yellow mix or red/blue mix for solo levelling? Seems the self-heals would be the most useful here.
- I understand Captain DPS to be about "80%" of a Champ/Burg in instances: is that about right? Obv. Cappy's bring additional group utility beyond that.
- Soloing elites, scenarios and/or 3 mans when levelling: doable? Red or yellow?
- Herald or Archer? (does it matter?)
- Tanking and/or healing in groups during levelling: more than viable? Need an alternate set of gear to do well?
- Crafting: Armourer or Armsman? Is having "okay" armor and a "great" crafted weapon better than great armor and an "okay" weapon?
- Any other advice?
Thanks!
Dec 08 2014, 07:39 PM
Warmutkan
Quote:
Originally Posted by elithrar

Hi all. Looking to start a Captain and am hoping to get some updated advice. I've dug through what looks like Helm's Deep relevant info on the Cappy, but still have a few questions:

Red line for my trait build? Red/yellow mix or red/blue mix for solo levelling? Seems the self-heals would be the most useful here.
I understand Captain DPS to be about "80%" of a Champ/Burg in instances: is that about right? Obv. Cappy's bring additional group utility beyond that.
Soloing elites, scenarios and/or 3 mans when levelling: doable? Red or yellow?
Herald or Archer? (does it matter?)
Tanking and/or healing in groups during levelling: more than viable? Need an alternate set of gear to do well?
Crafting: Armourer or Armsman? Is having "okay" armor and a "great" crafted weapon better than great armor and an "okay" weapon?
Any other advice?

Thanks!
Great to see you're getting into captainry!

When soloing I mostly run in red line. I do swap into yellow sometimes, especially in mob-heavy camps, or if I have a DPS class along with me for an impromptu duo slaughterfest. Since I have 3 trait trees, one for each line, I don't cross-dabble until I've gotten all of the traits I want from the line in question. This usually takes me a long time, by which point you'll know the class better and know what stats you do/don't care about.

Your mileage will vary from toon to toon, but yes, generally I find that I don't DPS as hard as main DPS classes.

It's certainly possible to solo high hitting mobs and/or 3-mans, especially if you know them well. Usually if I'm soloing something meant for a group I will swap into yellow, though I have heard of captains who prefer to stay full DPS for those runs.

I run heralds of war when soloing and heralds of victory when in long fights. While I was levelling I often had my archer out. Don't know how they size up during levelling with the new herald-friendly traits in red.

I have served as main and off-tank with my captain, though I didn't main tank until I hit cap. I've only main-healed a few times and generally found I wasn't as good as the mini's/RKs at hand.

Crafting likely depends on what you have for other alts and what your kinmates are lacking. If your kin is heavy on armourers, there's no point you rolling yet another one (assuming you make each other gear).

At the end of the day, play the type of captain you enjoy most. They're very versatile and work well in a lot of circumstances. If you're more comfortable running yellow all the time, no reason why that can't be your main build. Perhaps you like blue line more and will heal it up a bit more. DPS is arguably faster, but only you will know if it suits your playstyle.
Dec 09 2014, 12:34 AM
elithrar

Firstly: thanks for the help!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warmutkan

Great to see you're getting into captainry!
When soloing I mostly run in red line. I do swap into yellow sometimes, especially in mob-heavy camps, or if I have a DPS class along with me for an impromptu duo slaughterfest. Since I have 3 trait trees, one for each line, I don't cross-dabble until I've gotten all of the traits I want from the line in question. This usually takes me a long time, by which point you'll know the class better and know what stats you do/don't care about.

Just to clarify: when you specialise in (say) Red line, do you need to put 35 points in Red to get the final 35pt trait (Master of War), or does just having 35 points across all trees suffice?

Quote:

It's certainly possible to solo high hitting mobs and/or 3-mans, especially if you know them well. Usually if I'm soloing something meant for a group I will swap into yellow, though I have heard of captains who prefer to stay full DPS for those runs.

Great. Given my dabbling in LOTRO and the older state of the game, I expect to be playing alone through quests/etc a fair bit. Having the capability to solo content (rather than skip it entirely) is a nice plus. I get the feeling that the Captain can solo content as well as a Champ or Burg, and not quite as well as a Guard?

Quote:

Crafting likely depends on what you have for other alts and what your kinmates are lacking. If your kin is heavy on armourers, there's no point you rolling yet another one (assuming you make each other gear).

No kin as of yet! Attempting to sustain myself, so I'll likely go armourer and rely on quest rewards/drops for my Halberd.
Dec 09 2014, 04:12 AM
ertr
Quote:
Originally Posted by elithrar

Hi all. Looking to start a Captain and am hoping to get some updated advice. I've dug through what looks like Helm's Deep relevant info on the Cappy, but still have a few questions:

Red line for my trait build? Red/yellow mix or red/blue mix for solo levelling? Seems the self-heals would be the most useful here.
I understand Captain DPS to be about "80%" of a Champ/Burg in instances: is that about right? Obv. Cappy's bring additional group utility beyond that.
Soloing elites, scenarios and/or 3 mans when levelling: doable? Red or yellow?
Herald or Archer? (does it matter?)
Tanking and/or healing in groups during levelling: more than viable? Need an alternate set of gear to do well?
Crafting: Armourer or Armsman? Is having "okay" armor and a "great" crafted weapon better than great armor and an "okay" weapon?
Any other advice?

Thanks!
For soloing I would actually recommend the Blue traitline (maybe with some points in Red once you get enough trait points). Sure, it takes slightly longer to kill mobs than it would in Red, but on the other hand all the healing means that you can outheal most opponents. You will be able to take on just about any single opponent and win. (That most certainly includes Elite Masters and even some Nemesis level opponents.)
Tanking while levelling is viable for most content. Working as a main healer in a group will require you to trait and gear specifically for that to do a decent job (and you won't be anywhere near a blue-line Minstrel anyway), but Captains make excellent off-healers, reducing the stress for the main healer significantly.

I would mostly recommend a Herald rather than the Archer. The buffs from the Herald will usually be more useful than a small amount of extra DPS from the Archer.

Personally I would recommend Armourer over Armsman. You wear six pieces of armour (seven if you use a shield, eight if you include the cloak), but only one weapon. Just getting one "great" weapon from elsewhere seems much easier than getting many "great" armour pieces from elsewhere.
Armourer includes the Tailor profession which lets you make your own cloaks and armaments as well. (Assuming you have access to a Forester who can convert hides to leather.) Armourer also lets you create your class-slot Legendary Item, as well as crafting tools.

The final advice I would give is that while Captains can solo perfectly fine, where they really shine is in a group - making everybody else perform better.
Dec 09 2014, 08:50 PM
Capt.Hunor

Red Line = DPS quick multiple Mobs, under 30k. Or the group need DPS+DPS buffs , you will always welcome
Yellow = Tank multiple Mobs between 30k - 80k or single Nemessis in central Gondor (500k)
Blue = no need, just in group if you need to replace a Min.
Dec 09 2014, 10:05 PM
elithrar

Quote:

Originally Posted by ertr

Personally I would recommend Armourer over Armsman. You wear six pieces of armour (seven if you use a shield, eight if you include the cloak), but only one weapon. Just getting one "great" weapon from elsewhere seems much easier than getting many "great" armour pieces from elsewhere.
Armourer includes the Tailor profession which lets you make your own cloaks and armaments as well. (Assuming you have access to a Forester who can convert hides to leather.) Armourer also lets you create your class-slot Legendary Item, as well as crafting tools.

Good call, and the way I was leaning towards.

Quote:

The final advice I would give is that while Captains can solo perfectly fine, where they really shine is in a group - making everybody else perform better.

And that's ultimately been why I've wanted to play a Captain, balanced by the fact that LOTRO is a little older and I'll probably be playing solo to some extent when levelling (I was before when levelling a Warden to 33). I'm on Elendilmir, so hoping there's still a reasonable GMT +9/+10 population there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt.Hunor

Red Line = DPS quick multiple Mobs, under 30k. Or the group need DPS+DPS buffs , you will always welcome
Yellow = Tank multiple Mobs between 30k - 80k or single Nemessis in central Gondor (500k)
Blue = no need, just in group if you need to replace a Min.

Thanks. Levelling as Blue (heals) seems like it'd be fairly sluggish, particularly when having looked at the Red & Yellow trait lines (lots of DPS/sustain abilities there). Swapping between Red + Yellow seems like the efficient way to level and still be useful in Fellowships for buffs and/or tanking.
Dec 10 2014, 07:46 PM
dietlbomb
Quote:
Originally Posted by elithrar

Hi all. Looking to start a Captain and am hoping to get some updated advice. I've dug through what looks like Helm's Deep relevant info on the Cappy, but still have a few questions:

Red line for my trait build? Red/yellow mix or red/blue mix for solo levelling? Seems the self-heals would be the most useful here.
I understand Captain DPS to be about "80%" of a Champ/Burg in instances: is that about right? Obv. Cappy's bring additional group utility beyond that.
Soloing elites, scenarios and/or 3 mans when levelling: doable? Red or yellow?
Herald or Archer? (does it matter?)
Tanking and/or healing in groups during levelling: more than viable? Need an alternate set of gear to do well?
Crafting: Armourer or Armsman? Is having "okay" armor and a "great" crafted weapon better than great armor and an "okay" weapon?
Any other advice?

Thanks!
I'd think a simple all red build would be a good default for the first 30 or so levels. I'd recommend just swapping between simple all red/all blue/all yellow lines as you level just to get the feel for each one. You do get self heals in every line, but their strength does vary depending on your selections.

I usually run with the Herald of Hope when I level, but they have changed the game's stats a couple times since the last time I was in much danger, so I'm not so sure. If the devs haven't improved the heralds, it really doesn't matter which one you pick. They're all just there to be the target of Shield-Brother/Blade-Brother/Other-Brother and are otherwise useless.

While grouping while leveling, just pick the role that the group finds most useful. If the group is lacking in healing, trait for healing. If the group needs a tank, trait for tanking. If otherwise, trait for dps to make the run go more quickly.

For crafting, either Armsman or Armourer are good bets. I like to pick a profession that makes my class's legendary items, so both of these will help you there. Unless you make a strong effort to level your crafting, it is really easy to outlevel your crafting skills. If you put in the effort, however, armourers can make the most number of useful items. But improving your weapon is still the number one way to improve your character. It's the basis of all your dps. DPS! Also, you can find armour pretty easily if you want to run instances as you level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elithrar

Firstly: thanks for the help!

Just to clarify: when you specialise in (say) Red line, do you need to put 35 points in Red to get the final 35pt trait (Master of War), or does just having 35 points across all trees suffice?

You need to buy 35 traits. Traits cost one point each in (say) the Red line, but 2 points each in the other lines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elithrar

Great. Given my dabbling in LOTRO and the older state of the game, I expect to be playing alone through quests/etc a fair bit. Having the capability to solo content (rather than skip it entirely) is a nice plus. I get the feeling that the Captain can solo content as well as a Champ or Burg, and not quite as well as a Guard?

Captains are perfectly adequate in this regard. They are a fun class. They are one of the best soloing classes, since they have no obvious weaknesses. They probably won't fail escort quests unless you go afk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elithrar

No kin as of yet! Attempting to sustain myself, so I'll likely go armourer and rely on quest rewards/drops for my Halberd.

See above! :cool:
May 03 2015, 08:17 AM
Leyaa

Hi there. I have a few question myself regarding my captain and would be glad if someone could answer them :) I started a captain back in 2013, took a break and now I am back again, and while I was away some things have changed.
Before the implementation of the trait trees, I traited blue and have done now too. But how is it these days? I have the feeling traiting blue is not needed anymore. Healing in 6er groups is possible for me, but I can't respond very good to high incoming damage, as minstrels or runekeepers do. I want to do a good job in a group and like to feel "needed", if you know what i mean ;-)
I'm always leveling with Loremaster ( both on level 73 right now), so traiting red is not necessary for me. I was wondering about going in yellow and heard about captains are good tanks as of right now. Are they also capable of tanking t2c? Or are they more good in off-tanking?

And what about equipment? If I go blue, what is better? Might or tactical mastery? Do I need much fate in higher levels (end-game)? Back in 2013 I always had problems with power, because my base max. power pool wasn't as high as a Loremaster or Minstrel.

Thanks in advance for your help and I like to apologize for my bad english, I know it's not the best.
May 03 2015, 11:13 AM
Laubgaenger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leyaa

I'm always leveling with Loremaster ( both on level 73 right now), so traiting red is not necessary for me. I was wondering about going in yellow and heard about captains are good tanks as of right now. Are they also capable of tanking t2c? Or are they more good in off-tanking?

And what about equipment? If I go blue, what is better? Might or tactical mastery? Do I need much fate in higher levels (end-game)? Back in 2013 I always had problems with power, because my base max. power pool wasn't as high as a Loremaster or Minstrel.

Thanks in advance for your help and I like to apologize for my bad english, I know it's not the best.

From Might Stat you will get tactical and physical master 8 each per point of might. So go for Might.

If you go in Blue on the Road, you will get power from Rallying Cry. There should be no power problem. Is also happen in 2013 too.
There is a dynamic that, if you do a critical hit with Pressing Attacks (one crit hit of the many enemies is enough) or Devasting Blow you will get you an improved Rallying Cry. That you want. So hit crit values are also well for Blue Captains too.

On endgame, Power isnt you problem. No fear :-)

In Yellow you can tank fine, but very well versus single Targets. Captain have some problems if the amount of enemies become greater 7.

Have a look ion Buffs you generate for the Group by mixing Blue and Something.
Me plays mainly Red with Blue.

Healing in Blue ok. The Problem you have to bring your buffs up. You have to be fast, but not to fast.
You take aggro fast, because if you run in new groups and you buffs are active then you create sometimes to much aggro, in special if your hot crit, before the tank has the aggro. Stay next to the tank and this will go well.

And at last: Welcome back
May 05 2015, 07:46 AM
Leyaa

Does that mean I can avoid equipment with fate and go more on vitality, since more health comes always in handy? And what's with max power and max morale? I always thought max power was better than more morale. Was my assumption incorrect?
Thanks for the explanation of the mechanics for blue captains, but I was already aware of the ability to gain power with my own skills. I just wanted to know if i need more than that.
So critical chance is quite an important stat then, is it not?!

I am planing to go for this build: http://www.lotrottp.lotrostatus.com/l.php?c=2yL
Since I don't have all the trait points yet, right now I just invested in blue, but plan to go for a bit red aswell. My aim is to go for the -15% attack duration on routing cry (another useful buff for the group :) )

Sorry for asking so many questions (again).

Quote:

And at last: Welcome back

Thank you :) I always liked the LOTRO community, because the people here are always so nice
May 05 2015, 08:28 AM
ertr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leyaa

Does that mean I can avoid equipment with fate and go more on vitality, since more health comes always in handy? And what's with max power and max morale? I always thought max power was better than more morale. Was my assumption incorrect?
Thanks for the explanation of the mechanics for blue captains, but I was already aware of the ability to gain power with my own skills. I just wanted to know if i need more than that.
So critical chance is quite an important stat then, is it not?!

I am planing to go for this build: http://www.lotrottp.lotrostatus.com/l.php?c=2yL
Since I don't have all the trait points yet, right now I just invested in blue, but plan to go for a bit red aswell. My aim is to go for the -15% attack duration on routing cry (another useful buff for the group :) )

Sorry for asking so many questions (again).

Thank you :) I always liked the LOTRO community, because the people here are always so nice

While extra Morale and Power is always nice, it is also quite nice to have faster recovery of them - Fate gives ICMR and ICPR as well as improving your crit chance.
I would generally prefer Fate over Vitality - Vitality only gives a measly 3 points of Morale per point of Vitality, which isn't very much.

Crit chance is quite important, if only because crits with Devastating Blow/Pressing Attacks trigger a defeat event.
May 05 2015, 09:51 AM
Warmutkan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leyaa

Does that mean I can avoid equipment with fate and go more on vitality, since more health comes always in handy? And what's with max power and max morale? I always thought max power was better than more morale. Was my assumption incorrect?
Thanks for the explanation of the mechanics for blue captains, but I was already aware of the ability to gain power with my own skills. I just wanted to know if i need more than that.
So critical chance is quite an important stat then, is it not?!

I am planing to go for this build: http://www.lotrottp.lotrostatus.com/l.php?c=2yL
Since I don't have all the trait points yet, right now I just invested in blue, but plan to go for a bit red aswell. My aim is to go for the -15% attack duration on routing cry (another useful buff for the group :) )

Sorry for asking so many questions (again).

Thank you :) I always liked the LOTRO community, because the people here are always so nice

Your milewage will vary with which stats are most important depending on how your build progresses, the content you run, and whether you're running solo or in groups.

I almost never slot power. When soloing I am not usually in combat long enough to run out of power. When grouping, if you're with an LM, there is no reason at all to slot power (since they can refill your power very very quickly). Without the LM power may be more useful, depending on the fight.

Morale (and by extension, vitality) is useful if you are taking lots of damage. Whatever the content you run, if you find you are taking more damage than you can handle, extra morale will help. While morale shouldn't be a top priority, if you take a "glass cannon" approach, you decrease the window between "I have lots of health, the healers don't have to worry about me!" and "Oh god oh god oh god." The bigger the window, the less you have to rely on other healers.

As ertr said, critical chance is...well, critical. Since you're building a healing cappy, critting more often will make your heals more effective and keep your DPS in a decent range. Both are good for both solo and group play.