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Hello fellow captains!
We already have lots of cappy trait builds, equipment builds, etc, but what about strategies and tips on doing 1v1s on a cappy?
I personally do not enjoy 1v1s so much, partially because I am really not that good when doing it. But considering the challenge, it is indeed something very fun to learn.
So what do you guys usually do when 1v1ing, regarding skills, rotations, creep classes, etc? :D
As r9 captain, i havent PVP'd since 95 cap.
Red line PVP only
A checklist for doing good in most fair 1v1s should be:
- Revealing mark on target
- Sure strike buff, and keep it up
- Time of need then routing cry for attack speed
- Devastating blow 30% crit maginitude buff, and keep it up (DO NOT CASHOUT WITH BLADE OF ELENDIL)
- Apply all Bleeds
- Inspire, if needed
- Spam Devastating blow until one of the aforementioned buffs wear out
- Cashout defeat event with rallying cry if below 60% morale
Do Not use Fighting withdraw unless you need to. Do not use Oathbreaker's shame unless you need to. (ie they excessively heal)
Special tactics for special situations:
Excessive kiting = Equip moors slow removal Then sprint (make haste) to beat the #### out of your target
Excessive healing = Oathbreakers shame
CD using reaver = fighting withdrawal
Spider = Cure all effects with alternating pots and cure skill
Healing stance WL/defiler = Dont fight
Warg = scroll/zoom glitching to turn during stuns. Pot Stuns on ...stuns - NOT KNOCKDOWNS
if you want 1v1's on BW, theres a lot of this you shouldnt do.Quote:
Originally Posted by varobun1
1st, you should really learn who to just avoid at 1v1's. but that will come with time. other than that, generally no rally cry, ToN, oathies, FW. other than that, i personally dont use pet/inspire either, but thats more of a personal thing, and you wont see too many others doing that. most you will see at 1v1's, will also use telling mark and not revealing, although again i think thats sort of a personal thing.
honestly, a lot of it is just down to judgement. if a reaver for example, uses impale/DS, then i see no reason to not use ToN, but if they hold back, its considered good form to hold back yourself. (obviously many other different examples, but this was the simplest)
i havent actually played my captain out there much lately, so ill leave others to discuss how to fight certain classes. but i felt like this should have been addressed.
So it's pretty much straight DPS right?
I was thinking that when learning about BW 1v1 "rules", it's pretty stupid IMO - creeps have 3x my morale, I would need 3x their DPS to beat them if I didnt use a SINGLE heal?
Wich is extremely easy even without using any form of DPS buffs as 0987654321 already saidQuote:
Originally Posted by atmonello
Ok, no time of need i can agree upon
No pet, no rally? Does the creep not know how to fight? Should i only be pressing 5 buttons throughout the entire fight?
If rallying cry is looked down upon i think creeps do not know how to hinder your healing ability
If our class is based upon buffing, why should we need to desummon our pet and disable our buffs
Thats like asking spiders to not CC and Blackarrows to use melee only
Edit: Yes i sound harsh and you should be limiting yourself based on the opponent. But i generally hold creeps to a higher standard, and fighting with 75% of your skills limited is just plain boring; But so is a healing fest
no pet was purely a personal choice, and i can only think of 1 other that does that, which is tarp who posted above you. also, keep in mind that certain creeps have no ability to hinder cappy healing, and you can RC every 15 seconds with ease, with it at full strength. honestly, i can only think of VT/blight that can be applied at any time. and most BA's wont VT and most defilers wont blight. (ones that arent complete trash, that is..).Quote:
Originally Posted by varobun1
i dont see where i said no buffs though. if you crit on DB, and get a defeat response, by all means hit routing cry for the stun and attack duration buff. But ToN is a VERY strong buff itself, and it also allows you to use that extra routing cry buff. as for 5 buttons, honestly i dont use that many in a 1v1 on captain lol. but then again, i dont use many on ANY class in 1v1's. bs/db/BoE/ss/ca/gw. and i tihnk thats about it for skills as far as a cappy goes in 1v1..
I've seen another captain (Agla something?) do it as well, but it seems to me that any good warg/reaver is going to win against this.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0987654321
well, BW has a lack of "good" reavers and wargs lol. But i suppose mit traited reavers are a good substitute, and against them i do fairly well, as long as i get at least 1 DB crit. or did fairly well, as i barely play captain anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giliodor
If you're here for cappy stuff, skip the rant as it has nothing to do with the class itself.
This is a pretty accurate summation of everything that seems wrong with the development of 1v1 circles on BW to me. I was never a big 1v1'er, even when that was 75% of the action that was happening on E before it died. But I've always enjoyed watching others in 1v1s. But the trend on BW before I took a break, and to a much greater extent since I've watched fights since coming back is just a race to see who can use fewer and fewer skills. Its gone from a tool to make things more balanced and repeatable (no long cds make so you can have similar fights again right away, rather than waiting on CDs), to just everyone gimping themselves to the utmost and getting their panties in a twist if someone doesn't follow this 5 skill limit. You talk about no RC, but I'd bet the majority of the reavers you fight aren't using Impale, and even a fair number not using GiV. Do you expect the warg not to pounce? Because a halfway decent warg is going to have a 25k cappy down before they get through their 6 skill rotation a second time if they are. This kind of #### is boring to watch, and too boring for me to be a part of as a player when I even do get tired of roaming and think about some fights at the 1v1s. I dunno how you people do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0987654321
BW and lotro in general has a general lack of "good" just about everything. Unless being good at zerging is a thing. IMO the current nature of the 1v1 circles (at least on BW) makes it so precious few of the people who frequent them are even developing skills that truly benefit them outside of said circle, which is a big part of why 1v1 circles got started in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0987654321
./end off-topic rant
there is a reason i stay away for the most part now. 1v1 circles on Brandy have gone downhill massively. and, while i said what i did, it was simply to inform the op of what people expect nowadays. i personally 1v1 because it CAN be fun from time to time, but so that i learn how to play my class well with less, so that when i do use certain things, i get more out of them. as if you roam solo on bw, you'll be fighting from 2-20 as im sure you know lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by spelunker
as for a decent warg killing a 25k cappy before his 2nd rotation. well, i can think of maybe 3 wargs that will actually be able to do that off the top of my head that ive seen
out recently.
think ive gone offtopic enough with this post though. will allow some actual discussion to take place without interruption lol.
Thanks all for the replies. While I agree with most things @spelunker said - I never enjoyed 1v1s so much, but since there isn't a group available every time to fight the zergings, I end up forced to join the 1v1 circle. It can be fun, I have won a decent number, lost a large number of fights still. All and all, I had fun trying it.
Following what @0987654321, I am a big 1v1 cheater then, considering I usually use ToN and RC. But there comes the second part of this reply, mostly directed to @tarpelion:
Ok, I got capped mits (plus the mits BB sets), 12k crit def, 10k resist. Still, I take way too much damage. Not talking about my damage output here. Do you have an idea of what is your "taken per second" fighting, say, reavers?
That is because, ok, I might be not good delivering DPS, but considering my defensive numbers are where they need to be, what am I possibly doing wrong to TAKE that much damage?
Cheating reavers? :D
Reavers attempt to disable and debuff you to gain higher dps, try potting everything possible off so that you dont take extra damage from impale
You can pot 1 out of 4 of their bleeds (iirc). Each bleed adds 25% seperate damage to their impale.
Remember to use revealing mark and keep your dps higher than they can dps you.
If you're still having hard times then use healing skills to keep your morale safely above 50%
Not trying to make it sound easy, good reavers are not easy lol.
Oh, and get some finesse/Mitigation essence gear (1-2 pieces). It helps.
I would use revealing mark, but that is considered unfair according to BW 1v1 "rules", as is using rallying cry. On the other hand, Impale isn't usually a problem since it is also not usually used.Quote:
Originally Posted by varobun1
How much finesse is considered OK?
I'll typically do 550-750 DPS on a captain with no Impale and DS, and while kiting a bit.
To be succesful against a reaver, you need to pot Dust. Not the bleed. Dust is much more important, it's +20% miss chance. A smart reaver will let you remove both the bleed and Dust, though, so that he can Disarm you. If things are applied in the correct order, you'll have no way to avoid either Dust, or Disarm. In fact, when all 4 wound effects are up (Upper Hand, Thrash, Dust, Disarm), chances are that you can only remove UH and Thrash. At that point, pray you don't miss big skills.
I can't help you a lot with rotations, because I don't 1v1 much with captain. Just make sure to build up buffs (Tactic, Battle Hardened, Cutting Attack) at the proper time. Example: first go through BS, SS, DB, BoE, for SL buff, then use SL with buff, then again DB and then you have Battle Hardened, but also used +30% damage on SL.
Did some more 1v1s last night, tried kiting more and did not use any heal, pet, banner, time of need or fighting withdrawal. Got some kills and fun fights :D
But then I tried a flayer warg... God, awful. Is a well-played, flayer warg really that hard, or am I doing something wrong? He got some hits that took like 20% my morale.
AFAIK, well-played flayers will mess up most classes. The only classes able to beat them maybe are ones with fast/instant skillsQuote:
Originally Posted by atmonello
They can debuff the hell out of your attack speed and induction time to the point where it is just unresponsive.
You can pot off only one of the debuffs which is a disease I think.
The key is to keep your DPS high and debuffs off as best you can otherwise they will just regenerate faster than your damage.
Oh and I usually feel comfortable with around 13k finesse
generally pet is ok :PQuote:
Originally Posted by atmonello
And i can only think of 1 flayer warg on BW right now, marlay. marlay is quite a good warg, and beats some of the better players on the server. but really the answer is yes. a flayer warg is absolutely insane. they take very little damage especially when mit traited, and still do a respectable amount themselves, while severely debuffing your attacking duration (something that pretty much screws over captains)
Pet could be ok, but i am going for the challenge :D Also, I hate when spiders use their pets, so I'm following that "don't treat others the way you don't want to be treated" heheQuote:
Originally Posted by 0987654321
But, anyway, the warg I fought was Indistinct (maybe typo?), who was pretty much wrecking everyone at GG hahaha
The attack duration debuff was so strong that I started blaming my ###### brazilian ISP :P
It was awesome fighting Flayer wargs on champ during U12. You ould be lucky to get some skills off :o
I'd like to catch you online one day, Guth, to have a 1v1 with my r5 reaver :D
ah, yea hes a fairly good warg too. thing about warg though, is that it isnt the most difficult class out there, and any traited flayer warg will be difficult to beat. more so those that know what they are doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by atmonello
they have 2 attack duration debuffs as far as i know. one being fleas (pottable debuff), the other being muscle tear(cant remember the name exactly). fleas is a +25% attack duration debuff, with muscle tear being another 33%, along with a 50% slow. this makes things, especially on a captain, quite difficult. especially if you dont get a routing cry buff early
lol, i dont play much anymore, but sure :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Giliodor
What about 1V1 against a spider? I have a ranked 10 captain and tried to face a rank10 spider, he destroyed me. I was redline. I think spiders could fight with one hand and drink coffee with the other they are so overpowered. My tact mits are 40% and I run a lot of might based captain audacity gear and have 19 audacity. Didn't matter, not sure what I can do other than maybe trait yellow and last longer with no dpsQuote:
Originally Posted by 0987654321
40% tact mit is way too low. get that to 55-60% and your incoming damage from a spider will be reduced 50%. Spiders will still be a very uphill battle if they're using everything they've got, but right now you're essentially running around with the defenses of a minstrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by bcowan
From what I have experienced against spiders, it depends a lot on the spider you're fighting as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by bcowan
- If he/she uses a pet (and if it's the ranged one), you will probably want to burn it as fast as possible while minimizing as much damage you take as possible. But keep an eye out, if it's taking too long, you're going to need to use some heals, if that is "allowed" by your server 1v1 CoC.
- The Perseverance set from GV (the one with make haste slow removal) is very useful against a spider using webs.
- Pot whenever MC and poison pot are up. Do NOT forget about it - just keep an eye for the one spider DoT that damages you when removed.
- If that is allowed, use Revealing Mark (I personally find it too OP, but that may vary from server to server) on the spider. Telling can be useful when killing the pet first.
Oh, you should try getting your mits to 60%, not that hard with essences. You can always go 4pvp/2essence gear. The Retaliation essence is VERY useful, especially against a class with so many DoTs, you will be critcally hit all the time. (NOT SURE IF THE CRITS FROM DOTS REALLY PROC THE ESSENCE)
Other than that, it always comes down to your rotation, and if you got good morale, crit, finesse - resistance is a bonus when fighting a spider. Try going red line but getting the routing cry stun from yellow.
Other, better, captains can probably give you more useful advice than this noob here :D