The Mûmak in the room

Warner Brothers have moved all Turbine's MMOs out of the building now.

Today lotro.com arrives in the new datacentre so will any of us be able to post again?

I imagine that WBs have had a plan for some time to split the games from the company so they can keep one going without the other if needs arise.

We all fear that it was going to be the games that would close but given how the company is perceived right now WBs can't have been so inept to have not noticed. A lot of money has been lost with the Infinite Crisis and failed bids. To me it looks like Warner's have been making Turbine dig 6 foot deep holes in the ground this last year and even the arrival of a stone mason (company meeting 24th March) hasn't quite sunk in yet.

Turbine used to make games for their fans and they were proud of that, enough to make it part of their identity. There are a few who still want to make games for the fans but too many toeing the corporate line and their career beyond. Who will the suit reward?

Now it may not happen this month but I can't help thinking LoTRo will soon be controlled somewhere else than Needham.

Ponder during the downtime...


Mac

PS: I fully expect the new forum to not be able to display this thread :)

Wait, the website is moving datacenters too? I'm outraged in advance! Don't they know how to do this properly??? Why, my time as an intern with the Geek Squad tells me that they need to smoke test the the spin ups and RAM all the gigabites, beta test the squirrel database and this should only require a down time of the time it takes me to clean the Doritos Locos taco dust off my keyboard. That's it Turbine, I'm seriously thinking of quitting and I'm sure you're all going to close down! Probably before you lose the license in 2017!

You're still moving the EU website to Amsterdam right?

I'm curious......all I know is the new datacenter is in NJ. But where in NJ? As a jersey boy, I might want to go visit my characters in person :)

For the record our old datacenter was was in Somerville MA not in our offices. As a matter of fact we have not hosted our game servers in our offices ever. We moved to the new datacenter for multiple reasons including cost effectiveness and space. We are moving the sites this week because it is time to do so based on the contract at our old datacenter expiring soon. This was a business decision made by us here at Turbine, not the execs at WB.

As far as the meeting goes, we have a company meeting every quarter and have for almost as long as I have been here, which is a really long time.

I get that people haven't been thrilled with the technical issues since the datacenter move, but really, the old datacenter crashed the game how many times? And they also destroyed the Lotto server to such an extent that it was declared unrecoverable. If I was a business I wouldn't have stayed with them either.

Well that's blown the idea your troubles were as a result of the suits interfering, it's all at Turbine's Door.

We could guess that a contract ending was the reason the DDO move happened. You moved Lotro knowing of AC's issues and DDO knowing of Lotro's issues and each time posting, in mock surprise, acknowledgement that some of us are having issues.

What's disappointing is that the new datacentre doesn't mirror the old one in so far as it's performance goes. You were maybe lead to believe these virtual servers were a magnitude better than the old ones, they aren't and you only have tweaks and sticking plasters so far.

Mac

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Originally Posted by Frelorn

For the record our old datacenter was was in Somerville MA not in our offices. As a matter of fact we have not hosted our game servers in our offices ever. We moved to the new datacenter for multiple reasons including cost effectiveness and space. We are moving the sites this week because it is time to do so based on the contract at our old datacenter expiring soon. This was a business decision made by us here at Turbine, not the execs at WB.

As far as the meeting goes, we have a company meeting every quarter and have for almost as long as I have been here, which is a really long time.

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All conspiracy theorists can now remove the tinfoil hats. Funny how all these self proclaimed IT and network know it all's just got kicked in the teeth.... oh and Bango don't bother replying, we all know what your going to say anyhow....yes we do, really..no I mean really! go hug your bartender while your at it, the bouncer and waitress too!

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Originally Posted by MourneBlade

All conspiracy theorists can now remove the tinfoil hats. Funny how all these self proclaimed IT and network know it all's just got kicked in the teeth.... oh and Bango don't bother replying, we all know what your going to say anyhow....yes we do, really..no I mean really! go hug your bartender while your at it, the bouncer and waitress too!

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Oh bugger off...away with you :o







Thank you for clearing things up Frelorn :)

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Originally Posted by Macdui

What's disappointing is that the new datacentre doesn't mirror the old one in so far as it's performance goes. You were maybe lead to believe these virtual servers were a magnitude better than the old ones, they aren't and you only have tweaks and sticking plasters so far.

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Ive noticed a difference in the new server, besides the 4 total times lotro has crashed on me in the last 3 months, 3 of those times being the week after the new servers where up, my lag on a warsteed has diminished, not completely but is enough to say its better. That and the overall stutterness when around large groups of people in the world has decreased. Besides that i'm still getting the same latency and the same experience all over from Thorins Hall to Gondor.

And Minis Tirith so far is stuttering the same as Bree always has, and Dol Amroth.

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Originally Posted by MourneBlade

All conspiracy theorists can now remove the tinfoil hats. Funny how all these self proclaimed IT and network know it all's just got kicked in the teeth.... oh and Bango don't bother replying, we all know what your going to say anyhow....yes we do, really..no I mean really! go hug your bartender while your at it, the bouncer and waitress too!

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You should stop binging on your mother's prozac. Also promise me you won't send me any more of your idiotic PMs?

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

You should stop binging on your mother's prozac. Also promise me you won't send me any more of your idiotic PMs?

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I believe your the one who binges, according to this post.....

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

As for me, I spent my late teens and early 20s doing a Bachelor of Arts degree at a Red Brick university, going on Socialist Worker demos, getting thoroughly drunk as often as I could, smoking far too much stuff that I shouldn't have, slept with as many women who would let me and did the least amount of work possible. Still got a 2.1 mind. Bet I earn more money than you now though ;)

As for the negativity - I just save that for those threads that I know you and your other little friends are posting in. Good to know I'm living rent free in that space behind your eyes! :D

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Originally Posted by Frelorn

As a matter of fact we have not hosted our game servers in

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Amsterdam.

Given you have been there a long time, could you acknowledge Turbine are aware that this has not been well received.

Respectfully yours
Wiley.

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Originally Posted by MourneBlade

I believe your the one who binges, according to this post.....

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Do you get out much?

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

Do you get out much?

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Do you? or are you a lifer on the game?

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Originally Posted by Winchester1337

Do you? or are you a lifer on the game?

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Are you Mourneblade's little helper?

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Originally Posted by Snowlock

Wait, the website is moving datacenters too? I'm outraged in advance! Don't they know how to do this properly??? Why, my time as an intern with the Geek Squad tells me that they need to smoke test the the spin ups and RAM all the gigabites, beta test the squirrel database and this should only require a down time of the time it takes me to clean the Doritos Locos taco dust off my keyboard. That's it Turbine, I'm seriously thinking of quitting and I'm sure you're all going to close down! Probably before you lose the license in 2017!

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This might be the greatest forum post of all time...

-Sneakymoth

That's today? I'd panicked a bit when I read the news, considering the connection troubles I've had ever since LOTRO switched to the new datacenter, but I'd honestly forgotten and I haven't noticed lotro.com behaving any differently than it has ever since we left the beta forum behind. It's quite normal.

I do wonder, though, regarding the new datacenter... Well, we were told we'd be better off, and so far we aren't seeing it. But now I'm wondering how much that actually has to do with the datacenter. The BR tests were on the new hardware, but were they also on the new datacenter? I'm wondering if the new hardware would actually show a remarkable improvement if it weren't for the problems the datacenter seems to be presenting. In other words, I wonder how much of our problems relate to the datacenter and how much to the servers, and if the culprit was fixed, would the other finally show the improvement we were told all about?

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Originally Posted by Frelorn

For the record our old datacenter was was in Somerville MA not in our offices. As a matter of fact we have not hosted our game servers in our offices ever. We moved to the new datacenter for multiple reasons including cost effectiveness and space. We are moving the sites this week because it is time to do so based on the contract at our old datacenter expiring soon. This was a business decision made by us here at Turbine, not the execs at WB.

As far as the meeting goes, we have a company meeting every quarter and have for almost as long as I have been here, which is a really long time.

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Thank you, Frelorn, for this final corroboration that it was a contract ending on the old data center that effectively precipitated this hasty move to the new data center.

You basically agreed with my theory that Turbine was not able to keep up the old data center EVEN IF something terrible happened.
That also shows very clearly that TB had NO back-up plan whatsoever of returning to the old data center if something even more disasterous than the current situation had happened.
No chance of a roll-back if the new data center in NJ had NOT been up to specs - which it obviously was not AND STILL IS NOT!

It did NOT improve the gaming experience for the majority of players.
It made it WORSE for the majority of players.

Because TB was under contractual obligations to leave your old data center. It sounds like the end of Q1 2016 was the final date for the old data center.

THAT is the basic gist of the situation - a failed fail-safe back-up plan for a situation like the current one.
An end of contract situation where a LOT of problems during 2015 culminated in a move to an untested data center configuration unable to handle the load-out placed on it by TB's engine (server and client side).

Good going, TB, gooood going!
<Slooooow clap, veeery slow clap>

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Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

That's today? I'd panicked a bit when I read the news, considering the connection troubles I've had ever since LOTRO switched to the new datacenter, but I'd honestly forgotten and I haven't noticed lotro.com behaving any differently than it has ever since we left the beta forum behind. It's quite normal.

I do wonder, though, regarding the new datacenter... Well, we were told we'd be better off, and so far we aren't seeing it. But now I'm wondering how much that actually has to do with the datacenter. The BR tests were on the new hardware, but were they also on the new datacenter? I'm wondering if the new hardware would actually show a remarkable improvement if it weren't for the problems the datacenter seems to be presenting. In other words, I wonder how much of our problems relate to the datacenter and how much to the servers, and if the culprit was fixed, would the other finally show the improvement we were told all about?

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TB/WB probably don't OWN the specific hardware. Or - at least - I hope they never do. Cause that is an investment that was done only (appr.) 20-25 years ago.

Today any company that requires any kind of MMO presence orders access to a data center owned by other companies that specialize in specific hardware setups. Usually a certain number of servers/blade centers are rented/leased for specific configurations. These are then added to the basic structure of the data center if necessary. Any physical work there is usually handled by the techs of the company that controls the data center, not by techs of Turbine/WB. A data center requires LARGE amounts of backup plans for power generation, security to the site, and some such. No MMO company would invest in such measures themselves (maybe a giant like Blizzard might, but I have my serious doubts even about that).

It *could* be said that TB then *owns* that specific server/blade server setup, but usually the actual hardware remains in the possession as well as ownership of the company that provides the access to such a server farm. It's not as if you simply walk in and say, "Hey, hand over those 2-3 19" racks you got there. They are ours. We are now gonna move them somewhere else."

You need AC, power, land lines, etc. pp. for all of that. The actual 19" rack including the units in it are usually part of a larger array that only works well in this center.
Usually such an array is not physically moved anywhere except when you dismantle them. They are simply too clunky and bulky to move easily.
During dismantling something usually breaks somewhere - and those units are expensive.

Therefore the BR 'server' probably had already been set up in 2015 in the NJ data center.
As a test environment on a smaller scale.
Probably a virtualized server on a small array representing a single world for purposes of load balancing, etc.
Very probably there had been a small blade center set up in NJ just for the BR 'test server'.

But there probably never was anything close to a true hardware server anywhere near the Turbine data center based in Boston that handled the BR tests in October 2015 and later.

Therefore it was very unlikely that the actual hardware was moved from Boston to NJ; rather the data was transfered.
And to test the new hardware it must have already been in place in the NJ data center in 2015.

But I never /tracert 'd it during my beta rounds in 2015.
Why would I? Why should I?
So I am only speculating on a probable situation here.

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Originally Posted by Reximus

I get that people haven't been thrilled with the technical issues since the datacenter move, but really, the old datacenter crashed the game how many times? And they also destroyed the Lotto server to such an extent that it was declared unrecoverable. If I was a business I wouldn't have stayed with them either.

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The Lottery system was a personal project of Sapience. I' have two kids running to the left and right of me, so don't really have time to look for a quote, but I'm pretty sure I read that a long time ago. So I'm guessing there's simply no one around to bother with it's recovery as even Sapience couldn't be bothered with it anymore. Also, a lottery on top of the hobbit presents? About those btw, can you please alter their loot list a bit? Getting yet another rejuvenation potion as a Gold Hobbit Present makes me think them nasty hobbitses are simply pulling yet another prank.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Yep, that explains it. It's cheaper in the new place, and easier to fu(k the playerbase over by screwing with a server that's held together with duct tape and prayer, than just letting it sit with fewer servers running.

Is LotRO really so cash strapped that this was necessary?

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Edgy stuff, but if you're really trying to get Frelorn's attention, try posting an image of a sentence diagram.

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Originally Posted by Macdui

Warner Brothers have moved all Turbine's MMOs out of the building now.

Today lotro.com arrives in the new datacentre so will any of us be able to post again?

I imagine that WBs have had a plan for some time to split the games from the company so they can keep one going without the other if needs arise.

We all fear that it was going to be the games that would close but given how the company is perceived right now WBs can't have been so inept to have not noticed. A lot of money has been lost with the Infinite Crisis and failed bids. To me it looks like Warner's have been making Turbine dig 6 foot deep holes in the ground this last year and even the arrival of a stone mason (company meeting 24th March) hasn't quite sunk in yet.

Turbine used to make games for their fans and they were proud of that, enough to make it part of their identity. There are a few who still want to make games for the fans but too many toeing the corporate line and their career beyond. Who will the suit reward?

Now it may not happen this month but I can't help thinking LoTRo will soon be controlled somewhere else than Needham.

Ponder during the downtime...


Mac

PS: I fully expect the new forum to not be able to display this thread :)

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I suspect that the new forums (if Turbine do indeed produce them) will be a single forum site for all three games - with the intent of making administration & moderation easier & more cost-effective.

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Originally Posted by Milogson

TB/WB probably don't OWN the specific hardware. Or - at least - I hope they never do. Cause that is an investment that was done only (appr.) 20-25 years ago.

[...]

Therefore it was very unlikely that the actual hardware was moved from Boston to NJ; rather the data was transfered.
And to test the new hardware it must have already been in place in the NJ data center in 2015.

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By all indications I've seen, they did own the hardware and presumably have been using it for quite some time before they got the new datacenter. Many people have theorized that it's the old IC hardware (by which old actually means way newer than the hardware LOTRO had been on previously). It was definitely not an investment made 20-25 years ago. That would be ridiculous.

They talked at length about getting the new hardware set up and the new datacenter. If they didn't own the hardware and it was already at the datacenter, then there wouldn't be nearly as much to "set up".

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Originally Posted by The_Jagannath

Edgy stuff, but if you're really trying to get Frelorn's attention, try posting an image of a sentence diagram.

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Whereas to get your attention......a post of a duck will suffice for a typical stupid retort.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

So why don't you show us this edgy sentence diagram that could get you banned.

Or are you just being your usual fu(king r3t4rded self again?

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Yes, could you diagram that last sentence? ^.^

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Originally Posted by The_Jagannath

Yes, could you diagram that last sentence? ^.^

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Do you even know what a "diagram" is Francis?