U19.1 - Endgame Raid Jewellery will be obsolete

As an endgame raider myself, I find it extremely annoying that now since U19.1, Turbine decided that it would be a fantastic idea to produce 3 slotted jewellery, which is BETTER than the current Throne T2 jewellery.
How to collect this 3 slotted jewellery do you ask? You pick flowers! Yes! Flowers! Now you don't need to raid at all to get the best jewellery in the game! This means that the casual player can get better if not the same gear as a hardcore raider!

Casual players, or players that do not raid, or do any content at all, should NOT be able to have better jewellery than the main raiding player by just picking flowers...

This isn't any hate to any casual player that is glad to hear this news (Glad because you can get the best gear in the game by doing nothing), it's just that you shouldn't be able to acquire gear that is better than the current endgame raiding gear by picking flowers.

You made a raid for the raiding players, and now you are making the raiding players pick flowers because the raid jewellery is not as good as the flower picking jewellery.

What's next? Flower picking for armour that is better than the current endgame raiding armour?

Funny. On another thread there's a player insisting to always play solo and moaning that he is forced to group to get the armour.

Guess you can't please everyone :)

I've always enjoyed the mixture of solo progression and teamplay that LOTRO offers. So long as there are reasons to solo and also reasons to raid, I'm happy with the balance they have. The instances are still there to get raid ready, and the raid still provides better armour.

In any case, the 2 essence jewellery from the long-lost coins was already comparable to the raid jewellery because of the 4 stats vs 2 (lower) stats.

I pointed out to 2 things in another thread, I'll just copy/paste here.

1. There is now new jewelry available that is better than the raid one by 12 stat and 34 morale points. Couldn't this have been an upgraded raid jewelry? Unless you're planing that upgrade for later... This is only repeating the story that happened with the hilt of Earnil. Raid jewelry isn't as rare as the hilt, granted, but at least it required some skill other than running.
And just like the supreme armour... Other than the fancy name does anyone think that 72 stat and 408 morale (more than the armour, granted) is worthy of a raider? And yes, emphasis on the raider here, because for FI and landscape, you can have lvl 50 gear if you like.

2. How much can people working on this game actually not know the game? So, now we should be getting a very rare crafting item tied to a vocation and it doesn't even drop your item when opening it, but you have a 1 in 6 chance on top of the rare chance. So apart from having to be lucky, you now also need to have all vocations maxed to not miss out if you get that item, if that item is account bound. At least you could have added changing them for the correct ones for aditional flowers, if nothing else. Because of this all extracts and related item from flowers should be made account bound. I have 5 raid ready characters. Don't know if I'll be able to get all the stuff even untill the end of the game at this rate.

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Originally Posted by Alex53

Funny. On another thread there's a player insisting to always play solo and moaning that he is forced to group to get the armour.

Guess you can't please everyone :)

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Yes, there is playing solo, then there is this. It would be fine if the jewellery was not better than the current endgame jewellery.
But when a raiding player can no longer raid for jewellery and is forced to pick flowers to stay at the highest endgame standard, it's just a joke.

Have you seen how you actually get the new jewellery? It's a massive grind. It's better to just get the long lost coin jewellery from dailies, armour from less grindy flower picking and you are raid ready to improve the armour.

You can get Nadhin armour solo, new flower armour solo... And with both of those the FI and landscape is nothing but easy to do. No need to give raiding level gear to landscapers. Same thing happened with hilt, yet they didn't learn anything it seems.

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Originally Posted by Alex53

Funny. On another thread there's a player insisting to always play solo and moaning that he is forced to group to get the armour.

Guess you can't please everyone :)

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Accommodating every player is of course an impossible task. However solo players don't not actually need to get the best armour in game because they are playing solo anyway. Of course they should have acces to adequate pieces of armour for doing quests/epics (which is why the flower-amour was really nice for solo/new players).

Raiders on the other hand should be rewarded for doing the most "difficult" content in this game and taking the time to do this. Not only do they have to do the raid, this also involves planning, gearing and tweaking characters and forming alliances to get enough players on board. If the rewards for these activities are also available for solo players this takes some incentives from the raid. Raiding will than only be worthwhile for the personal satisfaction of doing the raid and not to advance your characters anymore.

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Originally Posted by Gandalphor

I pointed out to 2 things in another thread, I'll just copy/paste here.

1. There is now new jewelry available that is better than the raid one by 12 stat and 34 morale points. Couldn't this have been an upgraded raid jewelry? Unless you're planing that upgrade for later... This is only repeating the story that happened with the hilt of Earnil. Raid jewelry isn't as rare as the hilt, granted, but at least it required some skill other than running.
And just like the supreme armour... Other than the fancy name does anyone think that 72 stat and 408 morale (more than the armour, granted) is worthy of a raider? And yes, emphasis on the raider here, because for FI and landscape, you can have lvl 50 gear if you like.

2. How much can people working on this game actually not know the game? So, now we should be getting a very rare crafting item tied to a vocation and it doesn't even drop your item when opening it, but you have a 1 in 6 chance on top of the rare chance. So apart from having to be lucky, you now also need to have all vocations maxed to not miss out if you get that item, if that item is account bound. At least you could have added changing them for the correct ones for aditional flowers, if nothing else. Because of this all extracts and related item from flowers should be made account bound. I have 5 raid ready characters. Don't know if I'll be able to get all the stuff even untill the end of the game at this rate.

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Yes it would have been good if you had to have the raid jewellery to barter for the new one, which worked like the armour. But I believe there would be a better upgrade in the future for that.
But it's still a joke that the current flower picking jewellery is now better than the current raiding jewellery. It either needs a nerf, or get completely redone.

I agree with you, except for this. If you get the better gear from the raid, and you manage the raid with that gear, what do you need the gear that drops from the raid for? You could argue you already have appropiate gear to do that content.

I personally just do a variety of content both solo and in groups (which this game provides for very well) and don't obsess about the gear beyond getting my character raid ready. Once I am raid ready I can do the raid for the enjoyment of it. If something nice drops, great, but for me completing the challenging raid is reward enough.

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Originally Posted by Alex53

Have you seen how you actually get the new jewellery? It's a massive grind. It's better to just get the long lost coin jewellery from dailies, armour from less grindy flower picking and you are raid ready to improve the armour.

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Yes, it is a massive grind. But after that massive grind you are at endgame standard, a better standard than the current raid player. (Excluding the armour).

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Originally Posted by Latanab

Yes, it is a massive grind. But after that massive grind you are at endgame standard, a better standard than the current raid player. (Excluding the armour).

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Exactly. Excluding the armour. So do the raid for the armour.

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Originally Posted by Alex53

Exactly. Excluding the armour. So do the raid for the armour.

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That's not the point. The point is having the flower picking jewellery better than the raiding jewellery. It shouldn't be like that in ANY game.

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Originally Posted by Alex53

I agree with you, except for this. If you get the better gear from the raid, and you manage the raid with that gear, what do you need the gear that drops from the raid for? You could argue you already have appropiate gear to do that content.

I personally just do a variety of content both solo and in groups (which this game provides for very well) and don't obsess about the gear beyond getting my character raid ready. Once I am raid ready I can do the raid for the enjoyment of it. If something nice drops, great, but for me completing the challenging raid is reward enough.

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Yes, you do not need the raid gear to finish the raid, it only got a lot easier with the sets, etc. On some of my characters I still use the old FI jewelry because I don't see the huge upgrade in getting the raid one. And seems like I was right to do so.
But it is still a raid reward, for finishing the hardest content in raid you do with 12 other players, you spent days and weeks practicing, learning the mechanics and now the mechanic is... walk. stop. right click. loot. repeat. People doing the landscape and FI do not need the raid standard rewards.

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Originally Posted by Latanab

Yes, it is a massive grind. But after that massive grind you are at endgame standard, a better standard than the current raid player. (Excluding the armour).

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Then they are not at the same standard as the raider then are they. Raid armour is still the best, other raid items, like offhands, class items, titles etc - still the best. You just got to pick flowers to ever so very slightly improve over your raid jewels. It may not be perfect, but it's hardly the end of Middle Earth either. Think of it along the lines of testing your stamina.

Look on the bright side. Lots of casual players potentially spending lots of money in the store, given that the new jewels bind on acquire and need three essences each. They cannot be swapped between chars like FI jewels can, presumably. That's quite a bit of the cash for development of your next raid, unless of course you'd prefer that just raiders fund it all on their ownsome, or Turbine just charge for raids completely separately.

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Originally Posted by Latanab

As an endgame raider myself, I find it extremely annoying that now since U19.1, Turbine decided that it would be a fantastic idea to produce 3 slotted jewellery, which is BETTER than the current Throne T2 jewellery.
How to collect this 3 slotted jewellery do you ask? You pick flowers! Yes! Flowers! Now you don't need to raid at all to get the best jewellery in the game! This means that the casual player can get better if not the same gear as a hardcore raider!

Casual players, or players that do not raid, or do any content at all, should NOT be able to have better jewellery than the main raiding player by just picking flowers...

This isn't any hate to any casual player that is glad to hear this news (Glad because you can get the best gear in the game by doing nothing), it's just that you shouldn't be able to acquire gear that is better than the current endgame raiding gear by picking flowers.

You made a raid for the raiding players, and now you are making the raiding players pick flowers because the raid jewellery is not as good as the flower picking jewellery.

What's next? Flower picking for armour that is better than the current endgame raiding armour?

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Sorry, but Raiders have always been and always will be the minority of this MMO. One of the older CM's posted a data sheet, before he left that had the raiders as barely 1% of the current population, and that was years ago. I doubt it has grown much, if any since.

You nor anyone else, reserve the right to tell other players they don't deserve gear. You think raids in this game are so difficult that they should place the raiders at elite levels? Where they can continue to gate the groups/raids with players that already have said gear, and not fill them with people who need said gear?

Get use to it, it has been like this since Moria and it is welcomed by more than it is hated.

I'm pleased with the new jewellery. Raid-only jewellery is fine if it's only for raids (for t2 mitigations, for example) but if raiders can stock up on the best jewellery and make other players pretty irrelevant in normal group play then why would they want that, except to feel special?

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Originally Posted by Parenthesis_ii

I'm pleased with the new jewellery. Raid-only jewellery is fine if it's only for raids (for t2 mitigations, for example) but if raiders can stock up on the best jewellery and make other players pretty irrelevant in normal group play then why would they want that, except to feel special?

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A bit like real life, some people feel the need to be superior. Given the previous imbalance on stats for hunters and burglars (to an extent), poor hunters could not get into a raid to get either armour or jewellery so where to get them, guess turbine gave us old hippies flower picking.

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Originally Posted by xinofie

Sorry, but Raiders have always been and always will be the minority of this MMO. One of the older CM's posted a data sheet, before he left that had the raiders as barely 1% of the current population, and that was years ago. I doubt it has grown much, if any since.

You nor anyone else, reserve the right to tell other players they don't deserve gear. You think raids in this game are so difficult that they should place the raiders at elite levels? Where they can continue to gate the groups/raids with players that already have said gear, and not fill them with people who need said gear?

Get use to it, it has been like this since Moria and it is welcomed by more than it is hated.

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Do you have a link to this supposed data sheet? I'd really like to see it! We all know that he was just some CM with an over inflated ego that spouted a bunch of nonsense. I think you are Full of it with this data sheet you claim exists-considering turbine has Never released any data concerning numbers of players and/or what they do in game. So take your "get use to it" and go bake a pie.....

I agree with the OP that this new jewellery shouldnt be *better* than the raid jewellery.

I am not though doing what some have suggested and telling solo players they arent entitled to good gear.

The new armour you get from flowers is very nice actually (lets just not talk about vitality on medium armour though.... :P) all it really lacks is set bonuses, and those set bonuses can make a big difference in T2 throne. We wont see set bonuses added to jewellery at lvl 105 though I do believe but those that put in the hours of raiding should be, imo, rewarded the best possible gear even if it is by a small margin. If the flower jewellery had lets say 205 main stat and 500 morale I would not complain in the slightest bit because it isnt a HUGE difference, but by all means it is still superb jewellery, especially since it has 3 slots and then those that put in the hours of very difficult work get the ever so slightly better jewellery.

No argument can be made that solo'ers need raid level jewellery to do FI and landscape stuff, it also isnt a requirement for T2 throne at the same time, but the raid hands down has a higher difficulty level and thus better gear would have the most impact in that area, but if I saw a rune keeper wearing pelennor armour and 2 slot T1 jewels or FI jewels and they had reasonable essences, I wouldnt hesitate to invite them into a rakothas T2 or something similar and I bet they would succeed at their role quite well, even though they arent wearing raid armour and jewellery.

But like I said, to sum it up, those who put in the hours of grinding on T2C content should have the best gear awarded to them from that content, but it doesnt mean it should be the best by a mile, just that little edge like I suggested is a nice reward and keeps the raiders happy.

raiding shouldnt be about gear and gear shouldnt be a reason to be jealous of each other.
live in happyness and peace, better for everyone.

you say you dont want to piss off casuals and soloers... but in the end, thats exactly what you do.
like in a little sketch that goes like this:

person a: hi. i dont want to offend you, but your hat really looks nice!
person b: i dont understand, why should that offend me?
person a: it shouldnt. thats what i said.
person b: ew... you are really weird! but thanks anyway.
person a: okay. fine. now, what did you say before? you are no racist, but...?

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Originally Posted by Latanab

As an endgame raider myself, I find it extremely annoying that now since U19.1, Turbine decided that it would be a fantastic idea to produce 3 slotted jewellery, which is BETTER than the current Throne T2 jewellery.
How to collect this 3 slotted jewellery do you ask? You pick flowers! Yes! Flowers! Now you don't need to raid at all to get the best jewellery in the game! This means that the casual player can get better if not the same gear as a hardcore raider!

Casual players, or players that do not raid, or do any content at all, should NOT be able to have better jewellery than the main raiding player by just picking flowers...

This isn't any hate to any casual player that is glad to hear this news (Glad because you can get the best gear in the game by doing nothing), it's just that you shouldn't be able to acquire gear that is better than the current endgame raiding gear by picking flowers.

You made a raid for the raiding players, and now you are making the raiding players pick flowers because the raid jewellery is not as good as the flower picking jewellery.

What's next? Flower picking for armour that is better than the current endgame raiding armour?

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I can understand your displeasure in this. I've always been the one to run t2c raids etc and not gotten as good items as those that didn't run t2c.. Not complaining.. I haven't seen the cost of the 3 slot jewelry yet. I would well imagine that allot of people will tire of searching for flowers, after they get one piece. No need to be overly concerned. Raiders will always be better geared than casuals.

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Originally Posted by xinofie

Sorry, but Raiders have always been and always will be the minority of this MMO. One of the older CM's posted a data sheet, before he left that had the raiders as barely 1% of the current population, and that was years ago. I doubt it has grown much, if any since.

You nor anyone else, reserve the right to tell other players they don't deserve gear. You think raids in this game are so difficult that they should place the raiders at elite levels? Where they can continue to gate the groups/raids with players that already have said gear, and not fill them with people who need said gear?

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I am not saying that other players don't deserve gear. All I am saying is that the flower picking jewellery should not be better or even equal to endgame raiding gear. Raiders should have the best gear for doing the hardest content.

And I'm not saying this because so I feel superior to everybody else, I'm not trying to say "ooohhh look at me, I'm a raider and I am superior to everyone else because I have better gear". All I am trying to say is that you shouldn't be able to acquire the best gear in the game, which is currently better than the current endgame gear, by flower picking.

Just here to show my support to the fellow community that is getting discriminated once more.

This is all about the idea, stat difference is minimal to either way but it should still stand that progression is made from easier content to harder content and not other way around (unless there is level cap rise in which case it's ok to have stronger gear available).

If a new set of instances and raid is being worked on for next year, I am more than happy to accept U19 will be a low-cost, low maintenance update and don't care if some raid jewellery is made obsolete along the way. To be perfectly honest the raid jewellery was not much better than the FI stuff anyway.

On the plus side, the Hilt of Eärnil is remaining best in slot for the pocket. It will be a sad day when this item, which is full of character unlike the vast majority of dull faceless gear, is finally replaced by some crafted trash.

"Although it remains unclear if the blade was truly his, this ornate hilt was borne into battle by Eärnil II while under the influence of the Gloom of Nurn."

This was a step towards the wrong direction... The jewellery are not even hard to acquire. Armor is harder.

It's not that i'll even bother acquiring them , since the difference is minimal , but seriously , thats a first in a MMO world.
~30 minutes of flower picking is more rewarding that t2 raid rewards...

To whoever came up with this : you have no clue and stop making such calls imo.

PS. You could have added those jewellery as an upgrade to t1 raid jewellery ( including the flower cost ) and i wouldn't mind it one bit.
At least someone would have to step his foot in the raid to get them.