Burg Help - please

Been back for just over a year after last playing in 2012. I have leveled 7 toons from 75 to 115, 2 more from moria to 115 and so not wanting to do the whole level from 1 to 115, I Aria'd a lvl 12 Burg I had started long ago. Playing red line and I have 2 main questions - opening attack and legacies.

1. Opening attack - reading several rotation threads and Dadi's guide, there seems to be much conflicting views of what to open with. I've read surprise strike, cunning attack and coup-de-grace. Is there any consensus there? Or personal preference? I tend to use surprise strike, but again, reading threads and asking in world, there are so many different opinions.

2. Legacies - my god you people are the most anon class of people I've ever seen (assuming Moors)
Weapon - Burglar bleed, Crit chain skill crit multiplier, Crit response skill dmg, Coup de Grace damage, Cunning attack bleed dmg, Feint Attack dmg, Subtle stab crit dmg
Bag - Skills crit multiplier, Sneak movement speed, Positional dmg, Reveal weakness inc, Dust in the Eyes miss chance, Gamble chance, Surprise strike dmg
(I assume that the crit rating increase legacies would be a waste since I should be near/at crit max with stats)

Any help would be appreciated.

Hey there,

1. Situational, but without a doubt the best opener if you are anticipating any fight that lasts longer than 2sec is Cunning Attack. The bleed is just too strong to pass up. Any other quick fight you can anticipate finishing off fast, go for CDG. (If you want a killer opener, pop Cunning then feint, HIPS and aim>CDG>DES from stealth)
2. Check out my video for LIs and other gear (I'm not sure how outdated it is, I haven't been on in several months so pardon if the gear is not BIS anymore... should give you a good idea of gear/legacies) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOXk_O9MLgc

Hope this helps

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Originally Posted by Lamilac

Been back for just over a year after last playing in 2012. I have leveled 7 toons from 75 to 115, 2 more from moria to 115 and so not wanting to do the whole level from 1 to 115, I Aria'd a lvl 12 Burg I had started long ago. Playing red line and I have 2 main questions - opening attack and legacies.

1. Opening attack - reading several rotation threads and Dadi's guide, there seems to be much conflicting views of what to open with. I've read surprise strike, cunning attack and coup-de-grace. Is there any consensus there? Or personal preference? I tend to use surprise strike, but again, reading threads and asking in world, there are so many different opinions.

2. Legacies - my god you people are the most anon class of people I've ever seen (assuming Moors)
Weapon - Burglar bleed, Crit chain skill crit multiplier, Crit response skill dmg, Coup de Grace damage, Cunning attack bleed dmg, Feint Attack dmg, Subtle stab crit dmg
Bag - Skills crit multiplier, Sneak movement speed, Positional dmg, Reveal weakness inc, Dust in the Eyes miss chance, Gamble chance, Surprise strike dmg
(I assume that the crit rating increase legacies would be a waste since I should be near/at crit max with stats)

Any help would be appreciated.

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Opening attack sequence as a solo player depends on lots of factors. For most it is truly personal preference- you're playing red line, assume you've bulked up your stats for finesse and physical mastery? Those are needed more than ever for Mordor mobs unless you want longer fights...and are prepared to kite or die if facing three or more. From stealth, after reveal weakness and diversion, I prefer Surprise strike, Gamblers advantage, cunning attack (the bleeds stack), flashing blades. If the mob is still alive (doubtful), then feint attack. For two mobs, RW and riddle one, diversion the other and use the same combination- Once the first mob is gone, Aim and CDG the second one from behind, and repeat the crit chain till it's dead. More than two, pop Touch and Go to improve defense. If you've imbued your LI, start farming SoEs to up your damage legacies.

The only legacy I'd swap out is Gamble Chance. Playing red line primary, and depending how you spent your trait points outside red, you won't get too many gambles, if any. Depends on how you've allocated trait points. I use off hand critical to get more crit hits for those times when you really need it- unlikely you're capped on crit unless you've got Raid armor and 345 essences equipped. Caps were increased for U22 thanks to all the mob upgrades. Agility boosts are good too. Sneak movement speed boost is pretty useless, you already get a 40% boost playing red line.

[QUOTE=Neomoth;7836593]Hey there,

1. Situational, but without a doubt the best opener if you are anticipating any fight that lasts longer than 2sec is Cunning Attack. The bleed is just too strong to pass up. Any other quick fight you can anticipate finishing off fast, go for CDG. (If you want a killer opener, pop Cunning then feint, HIPS and aim>CDG>DES from stealth

Hey, I've seen this suggestion a lot, and am confused, even after playing for 10 years...why would I use HIPS in the middle of a fight? Don't all the mobs reset to full morale when you pop HIPS? Or am I missing a sequence where the mobs don't reset? Not sure I've ever tried HIPS as anything but an escape hatch. Thanks.

[QUOTE=breebrat;7837012]

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Originally Posted by Neomoth

Hey there,

1. Situational, but without a doubt the best opener if you are anticipating any fight that lasts longer than 2sec is Cunning Attack. The bleed is just too strong to pass up. Any other quick fight you can anticipate finishing off fast, go for CDG. (If you want a killer opener, pop Cunning then feint, HIPS and aim>CDG>DES from stealth

Hey, I've seen this suggestion a lot, and am confused, even after playing for 10 years...why would I use HIPS in the middle of a fight? Don't all the mobs reset to full morale when you pop HIPS? Or am I missing a sequence where the mobs don't reset? Not sure I've ever tried HIPS as anything but an escape hatch. Thanks.

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I should have specified that rotation would be for use in the moors or during group content

Aenise

[QUOTE=breebrat;7837012]

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Originally Posted by Neomoth

[...] (If you want a killer opener, pop Cunning then feint, HIPS and aim>CDG>DES from stealth

[...].

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DES from stealth only works if CDG killed the target, and then DES from stealth isnt needed anyway. if not, you already wasted your HIPS. how you supposed to hit DES from stealth in your scenario?

[QUOTE=Findun;7837166]

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Originally Posted by breebrat

DES from stealth only works if CDG killed the target, and then DES from stealth isnt needed anyway. if not, you already wasted your HIPS. how you supposed to hit DES from stealth in your scenario?

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Fast useage of DES whilst in (stealth/aim) + CDG animation

[QUOTE=Fingerz;7837213]

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Originally Posted by Findun

Fast useage of DES whilst in (stealth/aim) + CDG animation

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Yes this is what I was implying in my post.

Aenise

So a lot is being said here about what skills to pop when and how to open in each fight sequence. I have played burg for many years, and I do the occasional theorycrafting with respect to the true meaning of from stealth/stealth enhanced skills.

This is very important! Not all of the skills have the same potential from TRUE stealth vs. feint strike's mock stealth. Therefore, using cunning attack from true stealth means the initial damage of cunning attack is boosted by whatever from stealth legacy or trait you have. The bleed is exactly the same as the feint strike's mock stealth bleed.

Therefore, I personally do not see why using cunning attack from stealth is an opening whatsoever. Personally, I believe that CDG from stealth (assuming your tank is okay with it) has the highest potential for maximum damage throughout a fight. CDG with feint attack's mock enhancement will not trigger any of your from stealth multipliers. This is also true for surprise strike! Yes, surprise strike will do more damage with feint attack, but feint attack will not make that legacy you have on your LI that increases from stealth surprise strike actually trigger, or that 100% increase damage while in stealth trigger. It only lets you use skills that you would only be able to use in stealth, and it makes it so according to your skills, mechanically, you are in stealth.

Mechanically being in stealth means: cunning attack bleed will come up as improved cunning attack and it will do just as much as the true stealth's bleed. Remember, from true stealth you have a 100% chance to crit with cunning attack and surprise strike. Feint attack will not give you this chance, so use aim when you are using it in conjunction with your cunning attack.

This is my recommendation for a raid/fellowship boss: (Beginning in true stealth) Diversion>Reveal Weakness>Aim>CDG>Cunning Attack>Feint Attack>Double-Edged/interrupt the animation with addle>Exposed Throat>Aim>Improved Cunning Attack>Feint Attack>Gambler's Advantage>Exposed Throat>Improved Surprise Strike/interupt the animation with addle>aim>Cunning Attack>Feint Attack>Gambler's Advantage if behind, Double-Edged if not>Flashing-Blades/interrupt the animation with addle>Aim>Improved Cunning Attack

If you want to use hips, you can use it when CDG is off cd and in conjunction with a feint attack buff and aim. Use ready and able if you have a 7min hips like I do when CDG comes off cd again and repeat.

The idea is to not use skills with long animations unless you have addle (our immediate skill), instead use skills with short animations. The goal is to stack cunning attack of all types. No like cunning attack will stack, this means a crit cunning attack wont stack with a crit cunning attack, but it will stack with a crit improved cunning attack. Come up with what you think is the best and what you can manage :)

PS. This is just what I have figured out and what works for me! I do not think I am the best and others in this thread could have a better idea of it all, but give my idea a try!

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Originally Posted by Hythe_

So a lot is being said here about what skills to pop when and how to open in each fight sequence. I have played burg for many years, and I do the occasional theorycrafting with respect to the true meaning of from stealth/stealth enhanced skills.

This is very important! Not all of the skills have the same potential from TRUE stealth vs. feint strike's mock stealth. Therefore, using cunning attack from true stealth means the initial damage of cunning attack is boosted by whatever from stealth legacy or trait you have. The bleed is exactly the same as the feint strike's mock stealth bleed.

Therefore, I personally do not see why using cunning attack from stealth is an opening whatsoever. Personally, I believe that CDG from stealth (assuming your tank is okay with it) has the highest potential for maximum damage throughout a fight. CDG with feint attack's mock enhancement will not trigger any of your from stealth multipliers. This is also true for surprise strike! Yes, surprise strike will do more damage with feint attack, but feint attack will not make that legacy you have on your LI that increases from stealth surprise strike actually trigger, or that 100% increase damage while in stealth trigger. It only lets you use skills that you would only be able to use in stealth, and it makes it so according to your skills, mechanically, you are in stealth.

Mechanically being in stealth means: cunning attack bleed will come up as improved cunning attack and it will do just as much as the true stealth's bleed. Remember, from true stealth you have a 100% chance to crit with cunning attack and surprise strike. Feint attack will not give you this chance, so use aim when you are using it in conjunction with your cunning attack.

This is my recommendation for a raid/fellowship boss: (Beginning in true stealth) Diversion>Reveal Weakness>Aim>CDG>Cunning Attack>Feint Attack>Double-Edged/interrupt the animation with addle>Exposed Throat>Aim>Improved Cunning Attack>Feint Attack>Gambler's Advantage>Exposed Throat>Improved Surprise Strike/interupt the animation with addle>aim>Cunning Attack>Feint Attack>Gambler's Advantage if behind, Double-Edged if not>Flashing-Blades/interrupt the animation with addle>Aim>Improved Cunning Attack

If you want to use hips, you can use it when CDG is off cd and in conjunction with a feint attack buff and aim. Use ready and able if you have a 7min hips like I do when CDG comes off cd again and repeat.

The idea is to not use skills with long animations unless you have addle (our immediate skill), instead use skills with short animations. The goal is to stack cunning attack of all types. No like cunning attack will stack, this means a crit cunning attack wont stack with a crit cunning attack, but it will stack with a crit improved cunning attack. Come up with what you think is the best and what you can manage :)

PS. This is just what I have figured out and what works for me! I do not think I am the best and others in this thread could have a better idea of it all, but give my idea a try!

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You are guaranteed a crit when using CA from stealth hence the reason to utilise this as opener - a crited CA provides huge dps over a fight lasting 30 sec and you can also apply non stealth CA/crit CA to stack the bleeds. Save aim for further in your rotation such as aim / flashing blades or Hips/aim CDG as previously mentioned ( you can always apply exploit opening to a solo mob to stop it resetting following a hips when out and about solo)

Just my experience, anyways I like your post sharing some insight and your thinking around maximising your skill set..

@Hythe_
I'd quickly like to point out two things:

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Originally Posted by Hythe_

This is very important! Not all of the skills have the same potential from TRUE stealth vs. feint strike's mock stealth. Therefore, using cunning attack from true stealth means the initial damage of cunning attack is boosted by whatever from stealth legacy or trait you have. The bleed is exactly the same as the feint strike's mock stealth bleed.

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This isn't correct. Improved CA's bleed from true stealth is higher than the one after IFA. But it's indeed technically the same as the IFA version and is overwritten by it, so you want to refrain from using CA after IFA the first 30 seconds of the fight to use true stealth CA to its full potential.

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No like cunning attack will stack, this means a crit cunning attack wont stack with a crit cunning attack, but it will stack with a crit improved cunning attack.

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This is also not 100% correct. There is one version of CA that will stack with itself and that's the regular non-improved, non-crit version.
So you can have the following bleeds active on a target at the same time:
1 Improved CA (crit, dev or non-crit)
1 Crit or dev regular CA
X regular non-crit CAs

Hope this helps :)

Ah yes you two are correct. Cunning attack is a tricky beast, eh?

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Originally Posted by Fingerz

Fast useage of DES whilst in (stealth/aim) + CDG animation

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Could someone explain this bit to me please? I understood everything but not this part. Not an experienced burg here (yet!) :)