Red Spec Beorning (From a new player)

I played LOTRO at launch a LONG time ago as a minstrel... tried a few classes to maybe level 15 but thats it... Minstrel was maybe level 42...

I'm having a hard time choosing a class... In WoW I love the playstyle of paladin and druid.... Why? They can self heal while fighting.... while being durable.... I like that playstyle of being able to pound monsters, self heal, and sort of tank as well....

As a guardian, you absorb damage sure, but where is the healing?

As a minstrel, you can heal, cool, but the damage isn't that great...

As a hunter, pewpew, but no healing and squishy...


I'm just really confused..... This is an old school MMO meaning that any class you make is gonna be a TIME COMMITMENT and I don't have a ton of time so I want to be solid on my decision.

Beorning is very new to me and sounds interesting... The whole red/yellow/blue trait system is new to me.... I dont think they had that when I played so ya....


***All I read is the Beorning sucks unless you are a healer spec (Yellow?) and if you go red, be prepared to be exiled from any form of grouping? Hmmmmmmmmmm Either the players suck or they are legit not balanced and the devs need to work. (Which one? Because wayyyyyyy back in vanilla WoW people said the same thing about certain classes/specs and I proved them wrong but never went mainstream so ya, the main vibe was that it was still bad.... So maybe there are some red beornings out there that own but no one knows for sure??? If that is the case, it is a pure lack of skill from the player.... But this is purely speculation and assumptions) PS: My brain is melting

A Guardian has Catch a Breath and Warriors Heart to name their better heals. The have high mitigation and can equip a shield if necessary. They also have access to Guardians pledge, which is a short BPE boost against attacks that can be BPE. Good damage and survival/heals.

A Hunter has Blood arrow and Press onward. Good heals for a class with the highest dps and also access to mobility whilst dpsing. They can also trait for high mitigation if they so wished.

A Minstrel is not a dps. Mainly a healer. I don't see why they can't get a dps boost tbh considering RKs can dps and heal now.

A Bear is a poor dps in comparison to most. It has ok survival in heals and Medium armour. Healing is the most viable role they have at the moment. Due an update but don't expect it to be a good one lol.

If you kill fast you won't need as much survival. So good dps will actually increase your survival. A dead mob is no threat.

Sounds like you want a one man army....try the Warden :)

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Originally Posted by raserei

I played LOTRO at launch a LONG time ago as a minstrel... tried a few classes to maybe level 15 but thats it... Minstrel was maybe level 42...

I'm having a hard time choosing a class... In WoW I love the playstyle of paladin and druid.... Why? They can self heal while fighting.... while being durable.... I like that playstyle of being able to pound monsters, self heal, and sort of tank as well....

As a guardian, you absorb damage sure, but where is the healing?

As a minstrel, you can heal, cool, but the damage isn't that great...

As a hunter, pewpew, but no healing and squishy...


I'm just really confused..... This is an old school MMO meaning that any class you make is gonna be a TIME COMMITMENT and I don't have a ton of time so I want to be solid on my decision.

Beorning is very new to me and sounds interesting... The whole red/yellow/blue trait system is new to me.... I dont think they had that when I played so ya....


***All I read is the Beorning sucks unless you are a healer spec (Yellow?) and if you go red, be prepared to be exiled from any form of grouping? Hmmmmmmmmmm Either the players suck or they are legit not balanced and the devs need to work. (Which one? Because wayyyyyyy back in vanilla WoW people said the same thing about certain classes/specs and I proved them wrong but never went mainstream so ya, the main vibe was that it was still bad.... So maybe there are some red beornings out there that own but no one knows for sure??? If that is the case, it is a pure lack of skill from the player.... But this is purely speculation and assumptions) PS: My brain is melting

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On the red beorning side of things on the new legendary servers it doesnt really matter at 50 the beorning is sort of ok in any roll its after 50 that the beorning becomes the red headed stepchild syndrome.

Put it this way at 120 your only big hitter excute crit 's for anywhere up to 60k single target where as a hunter ,rk can hit for 200k+ on most skills critted without breaking sweat including aoes.

The idea behing blue bear was a huge morale pool and self healing to off set the missing block skill ,in practise pretty much all other tanks [Warden excluded] have more life better mits and more panic skills ,and you have zero self heals both of them are so minute at 120 theyre basicaly worthless 200k+ life pool with no block and a self heal of 2-6k heal with a 1-4k tick every 1 seconds for 8 secs is nothing and recuperate actually gets worse the more points you put into it.

Yellow is the only real functioning spec line which itself has problems with broken skills clunky animations and wrath generation to get to the real heals in bear form , accepted into regular groups and usually only if no minstrel/rks are around.

They have said they are lookign into the class but common thought is a tiny numbers increase with nothing of real substance done ,Vastin the dev making the changes himself insist's the class is fine in game and welcome in groups,where actually in game the reverse is self evident.

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Originally Posted by raserei

I played LOTRO at launch a LONG time ago as a minstrel... tried a few classes to maybe level 15 but thats it... Minstrel was maybe level 42...

I'm having a hard time choosing a class... In WoW I love the playstyle of paladin and druid.... Why? They can self heal while fighting.... while being durable.... I like that playstyle of being able to pound monsters, self heal, and sort of tank as well....

As a guardian, you absorb damage sure, but where is the healing?

As a minstrel, you can heal, cool, but the damage isn't that great...

As a hunter, pewpew, but no healing and squishy...


I'm just really confused..... This is an old school MMO meaning that any class you make is gonna be a TIME COMMITMENT and I don't have a ton of time so I want to be solid on my decision.

Beorning is very new to me and sounds interesting... The whole red/yellow/blue trait system is new to me.... I dont think they had that when I played so ya....

PS: My brain is melting

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Blue guard have more self heal than beor and warden combined. / even red beor/
If speced correct, mini st dps is under hunt, rk and MAYBE wrd/ on short fights/ but way above all others.
If your hunter is squishy, you do it wrong
Beo only sound interesting. W8 for class patch before you give it a try.

Ps: Your brain is melted.

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Originally Posted by raserei

I played LOTRO at launch a LONG time ago as a minstrel... tried a few classes to maybe level 15 but thats it... Minstrel was maybe level 42...

I'm having a hard time choosing a class... In WoW I love the playstyle of paladin and druid.... Why? They can self heal while fighting.... while being durable.... I like that playstyle of being able to pound monsters, self heal, and sort of tank as well....

As a guardian, you absorb damage sure, but where is the healing?

As a minstrel, you can heal, cool, but the damage isn't that great...

As a hunter, pewpew, but no healing and squishy...


I'm just really confused..... This is an old school MMO meaning that any class you make is gonna be a TIME COMMITMENT and I don't have a ton of time so I want to be solid on my decision.

Beorning is very new to me and sounds interesting... The whole red/yellow/blue trait system is new to me.... I dont think they had that when I played so ya....


***All I read is the Beorning sucks unless you are a healer spec (Yellow?) and if you go red, be prepared to be exiled from any form of grouping? Hmmmmmmmmmm Either the players suck or they are legit not balanced and the devs need to work. (Which one? Because wayyyyyyy back in vanilla WoW people said the same thing about certain classes/specs and I proved them wrong but never went mainstream so ya, the main vibe was that it was still bad.... So maybe there are some red beornings out there that own but no one knows for sure??? If that is the case, it is a pure lack of skill from the player.... But this is purely speculation and assumptions) PS: My brain is melting

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the beorning issues are not a l2p thing. the beorning has been in this state for a very long time now.

I will give you a really good anecdote that is only 24 hours old. I rolled up on the legendary servers. I hvae a 32 beorning. That beorning I bought all of the might, agi and fate books giving him several hundred more in those stats than someone without. red line spec.

i made a guardian last night. at level 10 skill-to-skill and without any stat tomes or even gear really that guardian is doing the same damage as that level 32 beorning in yellow line.

the class needs a lot of help. red line needs more damage in man and bear, blue line needs more and better passive mitigation and a way to actually block and yellow needs a better way to manage wrath as well as some actual utility. the class has pretty easy class trait point quests compared to the others, but that's all it has going for it. oh, and honey cakes.

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Originally Posted by Teyaha

i made a guardian last night. at level 10 skill-to-skill and without any stat tomes or even gear really that guardian is doing the same damage as that level 32 beorning in yellow line.

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Considering Beorning DPS is wholly reliant on expose that kind of comparison is incredibly misleading. Yeah, the class still sucks but in reality the actual damage you do compared with a guard is a lot closer than you've suggested.

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Originally Posted by Teyaha

I will give you a really good anecdote that is only 24 hours old. I rolled up on the legendary servers. I hvae a 32 beorning. That beorning I bought all of the might, agi and fate books giving him several hundred more in those stats than someone without. red line spec.

i made a guardian last night. at level 10 skill-to-skill and without any stat tomes or even gear really that guardian is doing the same damage as that level 32 beorning in yellow line.

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First you mentioned red line and then are you comparing to the yellow line? Sort of confusing.

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Originally Posted by Joedangod

Considering Beorning DPS is wholly reliant on expose that kind of comparison is incredibly misleading. Yeah, the class still sucks but in reality the actual damage you do compared with a guard is a lot closer than you've suggested.

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It’s not.

My guardian is now 25 and the tooltip damage of everything in yellow line is double that of my red line 32 beorning.

In actual practice expose is not adding that much to each hit. All fights are noticeably longer.

Only thrash tier 2 and 3 get up to this guardians damage. Relentless maul damage is so bad that I have stopped using it unless I am trying to avoid a stub from an elite master.

Did I mention the yellow line guardian has four aoes?

The only drawback to guardians is the amount of power they burn through.

Red line guardian vs red beorning is even more insane.

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Originally Posted by Estelrandir

First you mentioned red line and then are you comparing to the yellow line? Sort of confusing.

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It’s not. The guardian is yellow, the bear red. Don’t skim sentences.

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Originally Posted by Teyaha

i made a guardian last night. at level 10 skill-to-skill and without any stat tomes or even gear really that guardian is doing the same damage as that level 32 beorning in yellow line.

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If the Guard is the one in yellow you definitely needed to rephrase the bold part.

@OP

Beorning would probably be your go-to class if it wasn't broken. It should be the tough, mauler-brawler type class with decent survivability you want.

In reality, you're just talking about a Warden:

High DPS (highest in game for AOE fights, second highest for ST if not highest)
High survivability. Doesn't have the pure mits and bulk damage of other classes like Guardian, but has great self healing capability and is the go-to class for people wanting to solo/underman content (soloing a 3man instance for example)
Sought after in groups for both DPS and tank at end-game. This one varies from update to update but current meta is incredible DPS (U22 and U23) and reasonable/good tank if skilled (U23), though don't expect to be more survivable than a Guardian

The only thing a Warden really lacks right now is up front grunt, it's a class that revolves entirely around damage over time and we have only a few skills that hit hard right off the bat.

@everyone arguing about Bear DPS compared to Guards. I think you're missing the point of the guy trying to explain how bad it is. Bear DPS is bad, that's all there is to it, it's horribly underwhelming ever since they nerfed Trash and Execute, undoing those changes and allowing for a more sustainable way to maintain wrath (so there's no huge ebbs and flows in DPS) would be a massive boon, so maybe the class "revamp" might just be a numbers fix, but could have a big impact. I still wouldn't pla it though cause them skills are THICC. Clunkiest class by a long shot.

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Originally Posted by raserei

As a guardian, you absorb damage sure, but where is the healing?

As a minstrel, you can heal, cool, but the damage isn't that great...

As a hunter, pewpew, but no healing and squishy...

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Just replying in an additional post for clarity:

Guardian has insane self healing right now, it's primarily cooldown based but survival is UN.REAL. at the moment if properly rotating cooldowns. In shorter fights a Guardian can heal itself for 3-4x it's morale pool with relative ease.

Minstrel has pretty good self healing and DPS really for shorter fights. They'll never be a DPS in a group but where I've been doing 3mans and had a Mini in group, they've been getting 60-100k DPS on trash pulls which is insanely high, most main-DPS classes will not achieve this. It's also by far the fastest and most effective class for levelling alone: Good survivability, massive range, AOEs, massive burst damage.

Hunter isn't that squishy if geared and traited right, and has access to two of (imo) the most potent DPS self heals, Blood Arrow and Press Onward. Dunno how this really happened as a year ago I remember protesting that the class had literally NOTHING to self heal other than PO for a 3k heal (inducted). But that's lotro for you, underwhelming to overwhelming in one fell swoop.