Upcoming 85 content on LS

I know this is a little bit early, but I thought it would be a good idea to post about it ahead of time with all the work going into 130 as well. Since my kinnies and I don't have level 85 toons to test it on level, it's bit harder to gauge, but I think I've got a good handle on what needs to change. The damage seemed a quite a bit low. Unfortunately I had to test the hits on my cap level toon, but the hits all seemed pretty underwhelming, especially since it was all undebuffed(new xpac so mits aren't capped). I think overall damage needs to be buffed by 50-100%, but that's to be expected from a raid that hasn't been touched since release. The main issue that arises from it not being touched since release, is the morale. It is EXTREMELY low. The mobs have almost landscape level morale. To be on a similar curve to OD and Orthanc, raid signatures(Sorcerers/Archers in Flight and Warriors in Smaug/BFE) and raid elites(all the other trash mobs) need to have their morale multiplied by 5. As for the bosses, they need their morale set to 20-21 million each. It may seem like a lot at first glance, but with how the raids actually work and the dps increase we are getting from new weapons, I think these numbers are the minimum they need to be for t2.


My second point I would like to bring up is gold class items. This has been a really hot topic in kin chat and I know Roxi(Onyi_David) has brought it up on stream a few times. Personally, I think its going to be hard to keep people's interest without them. I understand rereleasing ALL of 85 cap's loot tables would be quite the undertaking, but from our kin's discussions, we would be more than happy with just the gold class items. It would also give a reason to rerun all the scaling instances that are currently 100% worthless for gear. I know there has been the issue since 85 cap of not wanting to give players too big of an advantage by using old items, but with how high the rating caps are on live now, it doesn't seem like there would be a problem. Even if they are still seen as a problem for endgame, there is always the option of level capping them at 95, like what was done with the Lothlorien barter sets. They might need their raw stat values tweaked a little bit, but the class % buffs are all in line with the changes we have seen to items on LS already.

May as well keep tailoring an entire raid to the whims of 1 hardcore kinship--it's not like the raiding community is going to recover from doing so for the last 2 expansions, anyway.

If you remembered correctly, this "tailoring" started at 65 of SSG's own doing, because of overwhelming feedback about moria being too easy. The entire point of these forum posts is to stir up discussion of a general idea of where *t2c specifically* needs to go. It worked very well with Orthanc. T2c needs to be hard to a point. None of the other ,multiple, t2c kins that have played over the course of 75, have complained about the balancing. If you have actual balancing ideas, I think SSG would be more than happy to hear them, rather than just general complaining.

Correct, my kin is the only kin to beat all 5 wings. 4 other kins have beat 4/5 t2c at one point or another. The last wing is more than doable for all of them with practice. Practice that was all learned on legendary servers. Orthanc is not even close to how we did it back in august of last year and our singular OD t2c 6man faceroll, around the same time, sure gave us a lot of practice. Not to mention only 3 others from my original group play on Anor. T2c should be hard. Why shouldn't they "tailor" the hardest content on LS to the only group of people that have been consistently running it, to challenge ourselves, for the last 8 months. It isn't ruining peoples nostalgia, because they couldn't beat every boss on t2c for a horse, plain and simple. Just like last time, I put the time and research in to give proper values, that I think t2c content should be. As stated earlier, give some numbers and let SSG scale it how they think, instead of just complaining and arguing for the sake of both. We've always been willing to give info/tips on how to beat hard content, whether someone joins the kin or not, it's not our fault if it gets refused. Mirage's time invested into raiding is just as valuable as everyone else's time.

SSG just gave everything a stat increase 100-200% + morale/damage.. they never did any tailoring for the LS content lol... I find it funny that you think the difficulty on OD was tailored for 1 kinship and that you're feedback was making it so.

In your case you was just lucky with OD, how the difficulty panned out was just luck. SSG never did any testing on the balance, they just slapped a % bonus to morale/dmg across ALL mobs. If you think that difficulty was intented you're wrong lol.

You are deluded if you think they are going to perform any balance pass for content that 20 people will run.. When I say balance pass o actually mean testing and tailoring mobs values inside the raids/instances. Not just slapping a morale/damage buff across all mobs.

You guys are very dedicated, find another MMO where you can go hardcore raiding. I find it funny you are still here lol.

Stop pay VIP for broken stuff.

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Originally Posted by Paytowin

May as well keep tailoring an entire raid to the whims of 1 hardcore kinship--it's not like the raiding community is going to recover from doing so for the last 2 expansions, anyway.

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Imagine being this butt hurt because you can't be spoon fed loot instantly.

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Originally Posted by Paytowin

May as well keep tailoring an entire raid to the whims of 1 hardcore kinship--it's not like the raiding community is going to recover from doing so for the last 2 expansions, anyway.

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OD had reasonably difficult raids but weren't impossible for people who know what they are doing to complete. Especially if you factor in the one kin to do it streamed their raids daily, you can easily learn mechanics.

Currently, 4 or 5 kins have completed ToO t2c 4/5. That's pretty major, and I was on a clear the other day with a German kin attempting some fights, and the overall skill of the server has increased now that more kins are attempting stuff. A simple balance pass to make sure Erebor is on this level is good, because we all know what happens when people who dont care about raiding gets their gear. They leave, bringing the population even lower.

A healthy raiding community is just as needed as a healthy casual community. With that being said, I think if the devs stay on this path of actually difficult content, then they could nerf it some towards the end to allow everyone to enjoy it. Maybe bring it down to BG t2c level, where its not faceroll for most groups, but still requires time.

People often bring up the argument that the most difficulty content is beaten by only one kin. Whilst that is factually correct it completely ignores the fact that this kin is

1) large
2) constantly recruiting
3) occasionally running multiple raid-groups

Over the last months we had many join and I have personally cleared all of ToO T2C with at least 30 different players, if not more. It’s not like this is a group of 12, it is a constantly developing group of people that wants to beat hard content.

And this completely ignores the fact that there are many groups out there who are pushing content to this day, whether they beat it or not. It gives those dedicated enough something to work towards. A key element of a satisfying gaming-experience.

And as has been pointed out, none of the current groups have complained about difficulty since early lv. 65. So yeah, please don’t just come in here and complain. If you disagree, offer something constructive and give us some information on your investment into the game. Are you in an active raid-group? Is Anor your main-server? Do you have previous raiding-experience?

Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion I really have to ask you to take your own play-style into consideration before arguing against the balancing-suggestions made by people that raid very actively since months and that have made previous suggestions leading to an overall successful raiding-experience for a majority of the endgame-oriented player base.

Well, now that that unfortunate derailing is over, I really would like to emphasize that this thread is meant for discussing balance changes for 85, regardless of what they are or how likely SSG is to do them. I stand by my earlier comments on balance, but would still enjoy hearing what other people have to say, instead of the usual, baseless, "you're wrong, because I said so".

Today on Cord of the rings, I asked Cordovan about the 85 loot tables(I'm honestly not sure why, because there is very little chance that he would have been informed if they were being rereleased or not). He said the current loot system will still be in effect at 85.

That's not going to fly...

The current loot from the Resolute/Dextrous/Valourous system is complete, and utter, garbage. I've gone and checked the stats on the live servers for level and it is equivalent to moria gear... *Level 60 gear is as good for our level 85 characters as all of the instance gear that is available to us*...

As stated in the very original post for this thread, I understand it's probably not feasible to rerelease the entire loot tables, but leaving the system as is, is just not acceptable.

At the very MINIMUM, all of the current scaling loot needs its stats majorly adjusted, for levels 100 and under. The next step is, the level 85 gold class gear HAS to be released, or its going to kill the last bastion of t2c raiders that still play and probably a large chunk of players outside of that as well.

There is already almost 0 diversity in the instances you can run for gear, and if the current system stays, there will be literally 0 diversity, because not a single piece of endgame gear will come from instances. The gold gear could even be released instead of fixing the current broken system. At the very least, it would give people a reason to run content.

Ask any endgame raider what their favorite part of 85 cap was. I sure as hell know it wasn't Hytbold... It was running a wide range of content, grinding for "special" items to improve their character.

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Originally Posted by BlackBeret92

Ask any endgame raider what their favorite part of 85 cap was. I sure as hell know it wasn't Hytbold... It was running a wide range of content, grinding for "special" items to improve their character.

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The Break?

Else you have to build the 3 Parts of Hytbold (for the armour parts you want)[think we have only build only 2, as the setbonus was changed from 3 parts to 2 parts], staying in farm Inis to get the helm and shoulder gold receipt. As Captain you summon the Kinnies and friends on the top of the tower once per week for a hour.

- Later you run from bottom to top open the valve. Run back and use some skills, while prepare to run back.
- Discuss what flag is used this round, up to - we use all.
- fight in the river or elsewhere. go out the red fields (all !!! i mean all !!!)

Alt least we had:
- do not let them break the egg
- do not kill the rats
- do not fall of the web :-)

We will be surprised about that many rubberbands, that not even get rooten over the many years :-)

@85 orginial we hoped we get a good raid in future - now we know how long we have to wait.

To play the old instance for the golden class item will sum us up, but the instances are not really "old".

In addition that will happen, when the raid @130 comes.


We had tonight a talk about what will happen when @85 comes.
We hope that the German Raid Community stays - not for the Raid, but for the Community we had build.

I never bothered myself with stat-values of 85 content so i can't say anything about what has to be done to scale it properly but yeah it is expectable thats its just far too low as everything was before it was reworked to be more in touch with current players stats.

i'd like to say something about the loot tabke tho

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but from our kin's discussions, we would be more than happy with just the gold class items

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I was never fond of those items that were released mid-content only to bait people and keep them playing, i may remember wrong but none of the endcontent raiding communities at that time were in desperate need to polish their gear. It was nice to do so tho, because its always nice to be more shiny in the end.

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Working hard to get the best gear is fun and rewarding

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Ask any endgame raider what their favorite part of 85 cap was.[...] It was running a wide range of content, grinding for "special" items to improve their character.

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Our Remembrance is obviously different, i recall pugging for Sambrog/Earth/Ost-Elendil/Sword Hall/Stoneheight/School speedruns (every mentioned instance could have been cleared in less than 10 minutes at that time) and grinding Bells for the Erebor part because of that precious might/morale/crit ear and the possibility of an additional recipe drop - All in all it was as far from being my 'favorite part' as possible and 7 out of more than 30 possible instances isn't my understanding of 'a wide range of content'. (my favorite parts were progressing through flight t2c and moors btw)

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The current loot from the Resolute/Dextrous/Valourous system is complete, and utter, garbage.

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AGREED, if you ask me, i'd like to have the loot table that was the precursor for those gold items but i know its a dream otherwise we'd already have that since legendary MW release

If you decide to bring those gold class-related items back tho (which could be a good move for the servers health because of the reasons that people above me already mentioned) i strongly recommend to consider

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the option of level capping them at 95

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The gold items and the teal items we're all released at the same time, iirc.

Not sure what server you were on at the time, but the atmoshpere was a bit different on Dwarrowdelf. Speed runs were happening, but there was a lot more being ran than just the fastest 7.

Regardless, whatever reason instances were being grinded, for a specific teal item or a special gold item, it's the same concept. It gives a reason to run content past the deeds, which SSG has been struggling with for the duration of the Legendary Servers.

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Originally Posted by BlackBeret92

Today on Cord of the rings, I asked Cordovan about the 85 loot tables(I'm honestly not sure why, because there is very little chance that he would have been informed if they were being rereleased or not). He said the current loot system will still be in effect at 85.

That's not going to fly...

The current loot from the Resolute/Dextrous/Valourous system is complete, and utter, garbage. I've gone and checked the stats on the live servers for level and it is equivalent to moria gear... *Level 60 gear is as good for our level 85 characters as all of the instance gear that is available to us*...

As stated in the very original post for this thread, I understand it's probably not feasible to rerelease the entire loot tables, but leaving the system as is, is just not acceptable.

At the very MINIMUM, all of the current scaling loot needs its stats majorly adjusted, for levels 100 and under. The next step is, the level 85 gold class gear HAS to be released, or its going to kill the last bastion of t2c raiders that still play and probably a large chunk of players outside of that as well.

There is already almost 0 diversity in the instances you can run for gear, and if the current system stays, there will be literally 0 diversity, because not a single piece of endgame gear will come from instances. The gold gear could even be released instead of fixing the current broken system. At the very least, it would give people a reason to run content.

Ask any endgame raider what their favorite part of 85 cap was. I sure as hell know it wasn't Hytbold... It was running a wide range of content, grinding for "special" items to improve their character.

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Just an honest question, how can you still care about this? No one is running these instances on normal servers for several reasons. There is literally not enough people that are running this content on LS alone for SSG to waste devs or resources on improving it. Let SSG focus on the more important endgame, where you know 99% of the population currently are. You should have stopped support this project long ago, because they will never be able to please any of us who want a decent endgame at LS caps.

A majority of players on LS left because they found out that it wasn't classic, content didn't hold up because everything has been changed from the ground up. You are playing the same game as everyone else, with a level cap.. Take it for what it is, I just find it pointless to ask for changes that maybe 50 players will enjoy. It's just not worth it.

-Bumping the thread as a reminder something has to change with the current loot system for 85.

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Originally Posted by BlackBeret92

-Bumping the thread as a reminder something has to change with the current loot system for 85.

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We aren't even there yet.! I am looking forward to Rohan, but the least of my concerns is loot. Mostly I'm concerned about controlling a war steed that rides like a 500 pound jelly over a newly ploughed field. Strangely I'm lookong forward to that more than loot.