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I recently decided to have a look on Twitch to see how many people livestream LOTRO. I wasn't expecting many, but was surprised to see a grand total of...two.
Now, don't get me wrong, MMO-wise it's a fairly small, niche playerbase to begin with (not going with Steam charts, as that doesn't factor those who use the launcher). But was there ever a point where there was more activity on Twitch (such as the 15th Anniversary giveaway which had an uptick in player numbers)?
There are a handful of us that stream our adventures in Lord of The Rings Online.
The number of people live at any given time is going to obviously have a lot to do with the time of day you check it. Personally, I tend to stream on Twitch every night (Mon-Thu) from 7pm-10pm US Central time zone (give or take an hour either way). My average viewers watching at any given time is 2 to 5 with some regulars that are there every night.
There is the reason you don't see a lot of Twitch streamers streaming LoTRO. The vast majority of streamers do it for the potential of making a lot of money, and they don't see any real possibility in streaming a game that might get them under 100 viewers on average. They know that if they stream more main stream games, they have the potential of thousands of viewers.
Therefore, for the most part, you are only going to see people streaming LoTRO that do it because they just love playing the game. That's why I do it. I love playing Lord of the Rings Online. It's an incredibly fun game. I already had the equipment setup, software, and accounts in place because I used to do a lot of Pokemon pack opening videos on YouTube and Twitch in the past, so I just decided it would be fun to stream my play times in LoTRO.
Long story short, you're probably not going to see a lot of LoTRO streamers on Twitch for a very long time (if ever) because it just doesn't fit the business model of the "professional" streamers. To me, I like that actually because it has created a small tight-nit community between those that do stream LoTRO on Twitch. Most of the people you see there streaming LoTRO are doing it for the love of the game, and not for money. They aren't fakes pretending to like the product/service to get viewers. They genuinely love playing the game, and it shows in their streams.
By the way, anybody that thinks that streaming and/or YouTube video creation is a great way to make money, let me help you out before you waste your time and money lol. I have been doing this kind of thing for many, many years. I have never made a dime off of YouTube nor Twitch, and I have literally spent thousands on it (mainly back on YouTube). I was close to making a few bucks a month (lol) back in the day on YouTube, but they changed their policies to benefit the million+ subscriber accounts, and all of us small accounts got screwed. As for Twitch, I have yet to hit the $50 minimum to get a pay out, and it took a lot of time, effort, and money to get to the point where I could even begin collecting money towards that $50 minimum. I've always joked that if I ever do get a pay out, I will celebrate by buying myself a Big Mac because I ain't ever getting rich off of this hobby LOL!
Only go in to streaming and content creation if you want to do it because you enjoy doing that sort of thing. This is not a good way to make a living. Those millionaires you see on Youtube/Twitch/Etc are very, very, very lucky. They were in the right place at the right time, and got incredibly lucky, and I would venture to guess that a lot of them do it now ONLY because it is their job. There are a few that seem happy, but you can tell a lot of them are just faking it because it's their job now. Don't let your hobby ruing your fun by making it a job. It's not worth it. Just do what you enjoy.
I hear that, and am inclined to agree with pretty much most of that. My question though is mainly aimed at the past - DID it ever have more than a handful of channels? Seems from your answer that it was likely not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharone
Yeah sorry about that. I tend to ramble on when I am interested in a topic lol.
I really have no idea how Lotro was on Twitch back in the day because I wasn't around for it.
I have never watched anything on Twitch but I do watch YouTube. There are a lot of people posting videos about LOTRO on YouTube and some of them stream there, too.
Neither did I until recently. I myself post them on my channel on Youtube, but I was having a conversation with someone not long ago about Twitch, and I was curious to know what, if any, traction the LOTRO community had within Twitch. It seems, based on the answers thus far, that it didn't really gain very much at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tralfazz
It varies.... sometimes its two, sometimes its fifteen streamers, but that is probably the most you'll see. Weekend/evenings are more popular, and during the day there are quite a few German and French streamers too, as it is their prime time.
I think that Lotro as a whole is gaining traction in all social mediums ever since the Rings of Power series came out. I wouldn't be surprised to see it grow more on both Twitch and YouTube.
I will say that I have gotten way more drive by visits when streaming Lotro than I ever had doing any other content in the past. While the number of viewers seems lower, the conversation rate of first time viewers to followers and return viewers seems a lot higher with Lotro. Potentially, this could crowd could grow because the viewers aren't just fly-by viewers.
Just my two coppers worth.
To stream the game you have to show a variety of content. With late game advancement tied to doing the same thing over and over it doesn't make for great viewing.
With very poor play given overt support from SSG to stream officially and supply of give-aways an implied but denied inducement to be on message those with talent to play move on. More an un-monitored clique ruling on the official streams, with one doing all their back office work. Challenge the leader at your peril.
There are still plenty of un-official streamers but not a wealth you have in other games. But it's more playing a number of different games and a token effort towards Lotro. Most exclusive Lotro streamers are plodding low to mid levels unaware of the late game that makes streaming it not so appealing to view. It's changed a bit since LI changes and no long bars the clueless from the near cap game.
When the priority is all about the streaming the game very much takes a back seat so don't expect much incite into good play choices. More gathering others into the same bad choices herd mentality. More talking the less you listen to others. If you are doing 4+ hour streams you aren't looking at better offerings and growing. If not even grouping then even less chance to learn from others. Some won't see through the pretence, some derive a notional "connection" with the streamer (para-social viewer) and that'll be the capacity of the channel. Unless you wangle the slot on official after Cord and the Prof.
Yup, relying on a third party for an income is folly unless you have some greater, wider appeal. Dishonesty, pretence and cheating viewers is a quickly perishable commodity. Some get hooked on their streaming and put undue investment into it only to have the platform of choice pull the carpet beneath them. Their "staged" basement stream "zone" lighting up with each new follow the spouse long gone - a quick look at early offerings to compare with the later ones. One or two trying to match up to a TV show with 100s involved in production, good luck.
Asmongold TV ain't playing Lotro, fortunately for EG7 et al. I bow to him for comment on the latest changes to Twitch monetisation this week:
Warning much swearing involved. I think I'm ok because Cord has praised a video posted here containing swearing before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG4G74Iwkv4
Bright guy and honesty so makes a mint. If the streamer can't manage their pack and storage are they going to figure out a best use for new Twitch options? Parasocials seem to be the only market for most lotro streamers.
if you call a handful of "streamers" with maybe 20 viewers popular... then yeah, but they are all embarassing to watch
I tried watching a LOTRO stream once. No chatter, just silently watching them wander through Dunland. I can do that myself and at least level a toon while I'm at it. Pass.
Um.... uhh.... well... uh... I'm trying />.<)\Quote:
Originally Posted by elvenes
Well plodding through mid levels of a near 16 year old game begs the question of have you a target market in mind?
Perhaps most don't ask themselves why they choose to stream and what they bring that others haven't already?
For status or for money or to inform, leaving out the outlier reasons. Taking the plunge to expose yourself on any platform seems like a long shot to make it worth it. Be glad of only a few views. Else you'll soon be asking for subs and follows and opening videos asking for likes to "reach" more people... and build a "community". Then you get the free kit offers and you are bending over backward to followers and the suits alike and a whole of bunch of extra effort. Don't even know what amount your 55% cut is derived from after "fees" when you have made it.
Most are great for Psychological studies, with a minor in body language.
Buy a lottery ticket, odds are better.
I have the impression LotRO is generally for an older audience. Twitch is something younger generations watch, something I personally don't understand. I just can't see the fun in watching someone else play a game when you as an adult have but an hour or 2 tops per day, and that's on a good day. Spending that time watching someone else have fun... nah. I'd rather log on (though not to LotRO with this lag) and have fun myself.
Yeah, putting on a voice to read quest text might be missing the game's age demographic. Perhaps it's to "re-connect with the youth", in retirement, which isn't here, or to offspring to show you're "hip and down with the gamers". Ex-teachers might fall into this pattern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambruyn
Giving anything only a cursory look and leaving does deprive you of figuring out the motivations of the streamer and their regular followers. That's the appeal for me, along with the repeated train-wrecks some provide. Easier with a game you know well ofc. Wider, plenty of narcissists out there ofc. And worse, using a completely different life rule set that is beyond the comprehension of followers. But being victims themselves perhaps aren't so well placed to prey on so much. But then if you are to make anything out of streaming you have to have rather a callous indifference to those funding you. Only once you have made it can you start telling them they are all idiots. If the motivation is ego driven maybe the cash is still secondary? There is still chasing skirt and pretty boys for some viewers. Being part of a community too, when at odds with the wider one.
SSG haven't proved immune to the para-social pitfall. Hook line and sinker in some cases, egos sufficiently massaged.
I can't really speak to other peoples motivations but for me it is just a way to connect with the community and to have fun sharing my adventures. Watching streams isn't for everyone but for those that do participate/enjoy it, its there. A lot of the time I'm not even really talking about the game, just general stuff and the game is more like something to watch while having a conversation but then I really can't say anyone watches me for advice on how to be the best at gaming, because I'm really not the person to teach it.
Had a quick look see. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Atonu
Chilled, not sticking your mug in our faces and using that voice, competent game play too. All good! No hint of any pretence or manufactured excitement.
So no depravity to uncover... for me :(
Mostly looked at the mini, I'd have a few different trait choices but we all should make are own choices with what works for us.
Good luck with it m8
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words - Truly.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoRonRon
Just take care with that accent; I've had some Wobbly kneed US gals with mine, one or two straight US guys asking themselves difficult questions too in the past... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Atonu
As they say, your welcome.
If we look back at the twitch leak from a few years back, we know that large majority of their streamers either do no money at all or miniscule amounts of money. You have to be in the top 0.015% to make at least the amount of money the average USA household made (in 2020).Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharone
correct. the money that most streamers earn is not via views or subs, but sponsorships, like gaming companies that offer affiliate codes for buying headsets and mmo mice, or deals to make a video to promote a new game, sports drinks and so on. it is never purely twitch only revenue
Two things can be true at the same time:
- Streaming LOTRO content on Twitch is not a quick path to riches, and
- Most LOTRO streamers just want to be social and/or interactive while they're playing and/or talking about the game
I'm not sure why folks feel the need to disparage the folks to whom #2 applies, just because #1 is also true. Is it jealousy? Schadenfreude? Or just a deficit in empathy? Just because you're not socially-inclined, doesn't mean those who are, qualify as shameless, narcissistic attention-seekers. There is a middle ground between the personality extremes.
LOTRO isn't "big" on Twitch, but there are a lot of other games that would be pretty happy with our numbers as well. We have a pretty steady stream of streamers playing the game, and people looking for LOTRO on Twitch are generally able to find good content to watch. Just looking at the Twitch stats for the game (not the LOTROstream channel), we had more than 85,000 unique viewers over the past 30 days watching LOTRO and more than 52,000 hours were watched. That's not nothing! And there are some genuine communities there as well, people hanging out in chat and in-game. Overall, it's a good place to be.
Thanks for responding, and for everyone else taking the time to do so as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
I currently follow one chap who streams LOTRO regularly; it's a relatively modest audience size.
In terms of utilising the platform to its full potential, are there are any plans to use promotions and the like? Just as an example, games with relatively small communities have or continue to use it for that purpose, be it drops based on viewing time, or monthly promos etc. No Man's Sky comes to mind in terms of this dynamic.
In the past, LOTRO used sites like MMORPG.com, or magazines which would offer key codes, usually when covering an article in the latter's case.
Just some thoughts in perhaps helping the community grow via incentives.
I know that Cordovan in the past has given away some codes to raffle off to several streamers. I watch Bludborn's stream from time to time, and he does have giveaways every so often. His stream is one of the most popular out there I think for Lotro, it's not uncommon to see 50+ viewers on his stream, sometimes 100+, especially when "new stuff" has dropped in the game.
He gave away a few Gundabad expansions not long after it launched.
It should be noted that not everyone with 2 humans and a duck viewing will get promotion codes, but if you have a sizable audience, and your stream is a good watch without too much swearing for everyone..... i think you can certainly talk to Cordovan and see if you can promote some things. But he isn't going to do that for streamers with <10 viewers I think.