ANTHEMS QoL change and Motivate changes

On the Captain feedback thread, some players were asking about Motivate and its rather short duration for what it does. SSG replied:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OnnMacMahal

The the duration of Motivate is going to be increased. Even without consideration for average fight duration, the need to click a skill (which essentially has no effect if you're just refreshing the buff) periodically every few minutes is a little too onerous.

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Now, I wholeheartedly agree with that change. I've always felt that Motivate didn't last long enough after the changes to captains a few years back. Makes sense.
Maybe even change it back into a clickie like it used to be, but increasing the duration is also fine.


Now, as far as Anthems go, all of the above also apply.
Let's check the reasons for the Motivate increase in duration:

1- it's skill the player absolutely needs to click
2- essencially has zero effect if we're just refreshing the buff
3- Clicking it periodically every few minutes is a little too onerous.


Well, Anthems are more than one, usually 5 that need to be clicked and have zero effect if just refreshing.
Additionally if clicking on Motivate every few minutes is "too onerous" what to say about 5 Anthems on a 1 minute cooldown that need to be reapplied every 25-30ish seconds to keep all 5 up and going?



Wouldn't it be a good QoL change to Minstrel if Anthems would last longer and/or didn't have shared cooldowns?
I mean, Anthems currently more than qualify for the 3 reasons that were given for the Motivate changes.



SSG:
Please consider increasing the Anthems duration back to 3 or 5 minutes and/or get rid of the shared cooldown.
It's the right thing to do.
It ticks all the boxes for the reasons for the Motivate increased duration, and thus, it's only fair and in line with the recent changes.
It makes sense for the Anthems to last longer and would allow the Mini blue playstyle to "flow" better, without changing the power-level of the Mini.

Fair is fair. Please consider it.

All those posts on the forum though, just think how many more must be on that Discord server. Or is it an admittance of a poor choice to pander to a single demographic?

But ofc Motivate perhaps is quite different in that it does not have a plethora of situational effects that the eight anthem effects we have mastery over at cap with each of our two builds.

We have been gifted a shared CD so we have that time to deduce which effect most sits the situation in evidence at the time we can apply another Anthem so it's not so onerous perhaps? Would like 3 Strikes with no CD if it was immediately available and corruptions got out of hand, situationally. Would like to regen my power to full over the next 10 seconds, situationally. Would perhaps like to top off my own morale with a little HOT without changing target, situationally. Would very much like to drop my threat by 10% and give my tact mit a little boost for 10 seconds and allow others to pick up the slack, situationally. I can see the merits of an addition Coda and Tactical Critical buff for 10 seconds, situationally. We should praise the dev that we have 20 seconds to come to a decision in isolation to everything else going on around us maybe? However the group would prefer we stick to buffing their needs in mindless rotation.

Everyone of the raiders suggesting I use the crux of Minstrel Buffs II that doesn't even track the most important; personal Anthems: Outgoing Healing and Healing Inductions or Cry and Call Damage. It's more a judgement on the talent and capability of the game's crop of raiders and I'm glad I quit after Orthanc. Mindless clicking the presented button, take a bow for a server first, why don't you? Elite raiders, don't make me laugh! SSG corrupted by influencers leading them astray as usual.

Parses was the sum total of assessment, ego sufficiently massaged in return. Check. Influencers not bothered to change their BR video misguidance.

Motivating Speech a checkered history with 30 minute elapse to 3 second CDs at the whim of each new dev.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bio-Flame

On the Captain feedback thread, some players were asking about Motivate and its rather short duration for what it does. SSG replied:




Now, I wholeheartedly agree with that change. I've always felt that Motivate didn't last long enough after the changes to captains a few years back. Makes sense.
Maybe even change it back into a clickie like it used to be, but increasing the duration is also fine.


Now, as far as Anthems go, all of the above also apply.
Let's check the reasons for the Motivate increase in duration:

1- it's skill the player absolutely needs to click
2- essencially has zero effect if we're just refreshing the buff
3- Clicking it periodically every few minutes is a little too onerous.


Well, Anthems are more than one, usually 5 that need to be clicked and have zero effect if just refreshing.
Additionally if clicking on Motivate every few minutes is "too onerous" what to say about 5 Anthems on a 1 minute cooldown that need to be reapplied every 25-30ish seconds to keep all 5 up and going?



Wouldn't it be a good QoL change to Minstrel if Anthems would last longer and/or didn't have shared cooldowns?
I mean, Anthems currently more than qualify for the 3 reasons that were given for the Motivate changes.



SSG:
Please consider increasing the Anthems duration back to 3 or 5 minutes and/or get rid of the shared cooldown.
It's the right thing to do.
It ticks all the boxes for the reasons for the Motivate increased duration, and thus, it's only fair and in line with the recent changes.
It makes sense for the Anthems to last longer and would allow the Mini blue playstyle to "flow" better, without changing the power-level of the Mini.

Fair is fair. Please consider it.

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I'm sorry I don't even know where to begin with OnnMacMahal statement on the Captain's Motivate skill. If he consider it "a little too onerous" then why isn't the Minstrel's Anthem even worse? Frustrating !!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Technician46

I'm sorry I don't even know where to begin with OnnMacMahal statement on the Captain's Motivate skill. If he consider it "a little too onerous" then why isn't the Minstrel's Anthem even worse? Frustrating !!!!

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I remember what they make motivation last 5 min "because tanking with captain just too easy job"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Technician46

I'm sorry I don't even know where to begin with OnnMacMahal statement on the Captain's Motivate skill. If he consider it "a little too onerous" then why isn't the Minstrel's Anthem even worse? Frustrating !!!!

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Buy them off with high damage and heal parses? Hateful new content, load 'em up with loot.

It's my nature to persevere and distil the essence of the deliverable. Best use comes with practice and full comprehension and being able to finesse a mechanic.
Those with the nature to go with first instincts and discount a system that is not immediately discernible do so at their cost.
It's a non starter for lower levels who don't have the 30 odd points in yellow to spend to start making it viable. With all and sundry taking sides with only beta evidence and missing the late changes they have assumed too much.

In a nut shell; build with the paired tree anthem and refresh with the personal base tree anthem. Wait until you have 40 points to spend in yellow to relearn. An addon that only has a single priority list for building and refreshing not serving users who have become reliant to function. Only got mid level LS player updating the addon so wider functionality in late game obscured. However even some lasting personal effects of late game anthems aren't even getting an icon placed in the default UI. But Personal anthems are, just being ignored by Minstrel Buffs II for now. Default UI still the biggest let down and being forgotten because there is an addon.


I'd like to know how this appeared in the patch notes:
"The War-steed skill granting item is now able to be destroyed."
Cancel culture? And new players to think it's a sensible choice to make now they've been given a choice? Or perhaps it's just a vague note and it's only for circumstances where you have ended up with an extra in your pack, just not worth the mention of some prior failing that looks bad on Lotro.com? The dev note requiring a massage? And we are left to ponder... Still no search function so why bother to make a pristine archive?

Release day popped the personal into my buffbar window. Two months later both the Minstrel Buffs II and Default UI users not cognisant? It's just about covered by muscle memory for me now. Just the odd dance if the next fight is a way off or peak time delays abound. I wonder if it's just me frankly. I get the choice to leave a Mission with all anthems running with elapse times between 1m30s and 1m40s with a bit of RNG luck. Just not worth it, so just 3 with no RNG and not much delay. That space does allow for situation anthem use too, not tied to a presented button to click.

A mechanic not suited to those who's nature is to discount any mechanic that has no immediate return such as Mounted combat. The majority of the current player base possibly? Nor those who go beyond the informative addons and release there choices to a tool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Technician46

I'm sorry I don't even know where to begin with OnnMacMahal statement on the Captain's Motivate skill. If he consider it "a little too onerous" then why isn't the Minstrel's Anthem even worse? Frustrating !!!!

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To be fair, as far as the Motivate skill goes, OnnMacMahal is absolutely correct. Spot on.
It *IS* a little onerous to keep freshing a skill that won't do anything if you're just refreshing it.


The upcoming change to Motivate definately is most definately a good change.
And more than that: the reasons for the change make sense. It's an improvement.




And therein lies the observation: the changes to Anthems were made in the exact opposite direction, with the opposite reason, namely that "the Anthems were not engaging".
It seems that SSG now changed some of its design principles concerning refreshing buffs.


Shouldn't Anthems get the same treatment?
It makes sense, it ticks all the the boxes/reasons that were given for the Motivate change.
Also, it would make many dissatisfied Mini players happier, the gameplay would "flow" better. I don't imagine any Mini player to be against a change like that.


Changing Anhems to be more in line with Motivate would be a *very good* QoL improvement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bio-Flame

On the Captain feedback thread, some players were asking about Motivate and its rather short duration for what it does. SSG replied:




Now, I wholeheartedly agree with that change. I've always felt that Motivate didn't last long enough after the changes to captains a few years back. Makes sense.
Maybe even change it back into a clickie like it used to be, but increasing the duration is also fine.


Now, as far as Anthems go, all of the above also apply.
Let's check the reasons for the Motivate increase in duration:

1- it's skill the player absolutely needs to click
2- essencially has zero effect if we're just refreshing the buff
3- Clicking it periodically every few minutes is a little too onerous.


Well, Anthems are more than one, usually 5 that need to be clicked and have zero effect if just refreshing.
Additionally if clicking on Motivate every few minutes is "too onerous" what to say about 5 Anthems on a 1 minute cooldown that need to be reapplied every 25-30ish seconds to keep all 5 up and going?



Wouldn't it be a good QoL change to Minstrel if Anthems would last longer and/or didn't have shared cooldowns?
I mean, Anthems currently more than qualify for the 3 reasons that were given for the Motivate changes.



SSG:
Please consider increasing the Anthems duration back to 3 or 5 minutes and/or get rid of the shared cooldown.
It's the right thing to do.
It ticks all the boxes for the reasons for the Motivate increased duration, and thus, it's only fair and in line with the recent changes.
It makes sense for the Anthems to last longer and would allow the Mini blue playstyle to "flow" better, without changing the power-level of the Mini.

Fair is fair. Please consider it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Technician46

I'm sorry I don't even know where to begin with OnnMacMahal statement on the Captain's Motivate skill. If he consider it "a little too onerous" then why isn't the Minstrel's Anthem even worse? Frustrating !!!!

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Anthems aren't comparable to Motivate because they grant you self buffs/effects per use and you are encouraged to use these as much as possible. At least in theory.

The new design makes sense in an abstract way, before Minnies almost never wanted to Coda and Anthems functioned as a buff you 'consumed', the result was you just never consumed them and basically ignored the Ballad/Coda system, instead you refreshed your Anthems now and then while sitting at 3 Ballads and not using Coda unless you really had to. Obviously this isn't good gameplay.

So it was changed, Anthems aren't consumed anymore and you get their effects immediately and because of the shared CD you now have time to Coda. The duration is also lower since you're expected to refresh it for the Anthem self buffs-effects you get in the process, in exchange Anthems stack so you only need to use 3 instead of 5 once everything is "up" for maintenance so you can refresh durations and get your buffs reliably. It's clear the idea is to get you to use more and different skills.

Of course the reality is that most Anthem self-effects really don't do much of anything and outside of Dissonance neither does Coda, so you basically never care about anything except getting your Anthems up and stacked as fast as possible for the group buffs instead. So while the theory was good the reality is it just slows down your buffing process and makes it more annoying and cumbersome in exchange for mechanics that aren't very meaningful.

I don't think I've seen a single person use Harmony since the change, even though it has the best reason for the intended gameplay with the enemy debuff effect trait for Ballads. Probably because the Coda does something no one cares about with its Anthem reset which you probably won't need anymore with how long it takes to get off, and on top there's just not enough time to heal when you're buffing and debuffing too and cycling your Coda constantly, on top of all this your damage isn't good either.

Kind of funny, Wardens are getting a normalization and clean up pass where every skill does the same thing regardless of stance or else it gets removed, meanwhile in Minstrel land Piercing Cry and Coda and Ballads all function radically differently based on your stance and where 1 stance is basically dead and unused. Clearly there is no overarching design doctrine here that all classes are meant to follow. This is even more obvious when you consider Captains are getting a soloing DPS stance that also modifies its skills.