Goodbye to LOTRO

Enjoyed the game a lot so far. Beautiful landscaping, good storytelling, nice how you follow alongside the epic story.

Currently at leven 99 in Gondor, looking forward to see how the story will unfold.

Now I have to Retake Pelargir, which is the stupidest and silliest thing I had to perform in all my LOTRO history. Nothing to do with the story and utterly boring. But I need to do it if I want to progress the epic story line.

This I will not do. I will not learn a whole new tactics and figure out what I have to do, if doing it doesn't interest me in the least. And spend 40+ minutes, maybe retry if I fail, and then who knows how many of these things I will encounter in the future?

I will delete my character and say goodby to LOTRO. For good.

How sad, and how disappointing.

Imagine quitting the game you seem to like/enjoy because of 0,2 % of the game's content and one annoyance/challenge...

Just saying. It's not the end of the world and certainly it's not stupid. That you were able to skip learning the Epic Battles for Helm's Deep was only thanks to MoL's six months long additional project.

I perfectly understand solo players frustrations sometimes or time constraints irl or otherwise quickly paced times we live in. But sometimes they are these key key happenings in games and their stories that have weight to them even if they're soloable, not everything will always be 1-minute long walk in a park nor it always should be that easy and that fast 100% of the time. In most other games that offer very easy/solo modes, there will always be some mechanics/stages that might prove more difficult for some reason and take more attempts to finish, and a lot of it may depend on sensibilities of players too. That's life.

I don't agree with the opening post at all- I don't think Pelargir is stupid and it IS part of the story... but with Storied Tales only existing in Helm's Deep this was bound to happen. Someone's eventually going to complain when they get to Pelargir and can't skip it. A brand new player who thought "these epic battles are too complicated for me" would have no clue what to do with the side objectives, bosses, etc in Pelargir.

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Originally Posted by Halphast

... but with Storied Tales only existing in Helm's Deep this was bound to happen. Someone's eventually going to complain when they get to Pelargir and can't skip it. A brand new player who thought "these epic battles are too complicated for me" would have no clue what to do with the side objectives, bosses, etc in Pelargir.

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That's true. Which is why my main observation after their implementation was how they are "framed" and named. As in, you get a sense player is outright invited to choose them over Epic Battles for story reasons and that Epic Battles are somewhat outdated/irrelevant/bad. Would make more sense if they were called shortened accounts or, since they're not just shortened but offer a few unique takes, maybe something else, like Extra Battle Tales, idk. Perhaps, to an extent, it would temper the exaptation/disappointment of some players if it turns out some Epic Battles aren't skippable. Perhaps it would even motivate them to play both types of content, try and complete Epic Battles of Helm's Deep and those extra battle stories, rather than just completely ignore one and choose the other.

For me it has nothing to do with difficult. I like a challenge, and no mistake.

It is just that I find all that fighting boring. I should not have said stupid. To each their own taste. If I offended anyone, apologies.

But to have to find out that LOTRO is not for me after 99 levels and endless hours is frustrating, and I think unfair.

I would have liked to follow the story to the end. Too bad that is not going to happen.

Oh well, so far it has been entertaining.

All understandable but it's literary having to engage in one battle (Pelargir itself may be a bit of lackluster I admit) and then 2 others at MT (which seem way more climatic). Especially if you don't have problems with challenges, there is no point to quit over something like this and the story only gets better from there

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

All understandable but it's literary having to engage in one battle (Pelargir itself may be a bit of lackluster I admit) and then 2 others at MT (which seem way more climatic). Especially if you don't have problems with challenges, there is no point to quit over something like this and the story only gets better from there

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Plenty of people quit because of Epic Battles in the past, and is a totally justifiable reason, to me, they are annoying, tedious, and even worse when you end up doing your very first battle with zero points, which can result in a high chance of failure.

That being said, Volume 3 has a lot of "skip points", in which you can go and pick up the epic at a later chapter and avoid the big battles altogether - though, you do miss the related story, so *shrug*.

People get annoyed that quest lines end inside raids, people equally get annoyed that the story was gated behind epic battles.

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Originally Posted by Hephburz-2

People get annoyed that quest lines end inside raids, people equally get annoyed that the story was gated behind epic battles.

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That's a silly argument of you to make because epic battle is soloable and you're only required to complete it once, people who quit because of epic battles in the past were the ones disappointed these were not raids/classic innis for end game, not people who just needed to complete them once and then move on

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

That's a silly argument of you to make because epic battle is soloable and you're only required to complete it once, people who quit because of epic battles in the past were the ones disappointed these were not raids/classic innis for end game, not people who just needed to complete them once and then move on

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It's not actually. It's no more silly than people who complain about raids. It doesn't matter that it can be solo'd, it's learning an entirely new system (which you can still end up failing) for a single quest in order to advance with the rest of the story. People who quit because of epic battles had nothing to do with disappointment (though this was probably also a factor) and everything to do with the fact that Epic battles are absolute garbage.

You also don't have any right to criticise anyone elses reason for deciding to quit because they don't like a particular system, when you yourself advocate for a similar thing.

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Originally Posted by Hephburz-2

It's not actually. It's no more silly than people who complain about raids. It doesn't matter that it can be solo'd, it's learning an entirely new system (which you can still end up failing) for a single quest in order to advance with the rest of the story. People who quit because of epic battles had nothing to do with disappointment (though this was probably also a factor)

You also don't have any right to criticise anyone elses reason for deciding to quit because they don't like a particular system, when you yourself advocate for a similar thing.

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Let me spell it out for you then: one is soloable but yes, challenging/maybe a bit disbalanced/requires learning, but soloable or worst case scenario a single friend or stranger can help you out. All of this on level. The other not only requires you to learn some mechanics but also run them with a full group of people, can't do it solo or just one friend.

If you don't see the underlying difference, well, can't do anything about that.

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Originally Posted by Hephburz-2

and everything to do with the fact that Epic battles are absolute garbage.

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Also, that's your subjective opinion. I don't think they were and I actually had fun running those. The fact that they were something actually different than same same same same same had a lot to do with it. Same goes for mounted combat, another system that a vocal majority just hates with a passion. (It has faults, sure, but is not a bad idea nor entirely bad execution, it can actually be fun too)

Do I understand correctly that even if I overcome this Epic Battle thing, in the future I will have to do raids with a group/fellowship involving heavy fighting? No way around it if I want to finish the epic story?

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

Let me spell it out for you then: one is soloable but yes, challenging/maybe a bit disbalanced/requires learning, but soloable or worst case scenario a single friend or stranger can help you out. All of this on level. The other not only requires you to learn some mechanics but also run them with a full group of people, can't do it solo or just one friend.

If you don't see the underlying difference, well, can't do anything about that.

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There is no difference. You don't like the system involved (raids) to tell part of the story - He doesn't like the system involved (epic battles) to tell part of the story. Just because one is soloable and one requires 11 other people is neither here nor there.

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Originally Posted by Jeroen4593

Do I understand correctly that even if I overcome this Epic Battle thing, in the future I will have to do raids with a group/fellowship involving heavy fighting? No way around it if I want to finish the epic story?

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The epic story doesn't directly tell you to go and fight in a group or raid setting - however the stories themselves usually "finish" (as in, whatever nemesis you have created throughout that story will "usually" meet their end in either an instance or raid) inside the raid of that level cap.

OP, if you have read the books you will know that "retaking Pelargir" is very much part of the story.

As Epic Battles go, Retaking Pelargir is pretty quick and quite easy on solo mode. To get through it for the book quest story line you don't even have to be particularly successful in the Epic Battle, you just have to not lose. Ignore all the extra encounters.

If you would like to read a brief guide, take a look at this page on the wiki:
https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Epi...aking_Pelargir

Here's a brief video describing how to make the battle as short as possible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2T1v46w6dU

Take a look at one of the recent live streams here, or one of the guide videos which cover epic battles:
https://www.youtube.com/@VoiceoftheRings

If it's not your thing you don't have to repeat it, ever. The Voice of the Rings kinship on Crickhollow plays Epic Battles nearly every week during live streams on YouTube. We enjoy them quite a bit! But that's the thing about a game as big as LOTRO: There are going to be activities that some people love and other people loathe. This applies to festivals, missions, raids – and yes, epic battles. Once in a while, there's something you want to do (such as move on to the next step of the book quest line) which will require you to do something that is not to your liking. But then it's over and you can get back to the things you enjoy. So I hope you'll reconsider your decision to stop playing.

I suppose you could skip Retaking Pelargir and move on to Volume IV Book 3:
https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Cat..._Book_3_Quests
https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Que...ed_for_Secrecy
But getting through the solo version of Pelargir one time really isn't a big deal. Don't let it be an impediment to your participation in the rest of LOTRO.

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Originally Posted by Jeroen4593

Do I understand correctly that even if I overcome this Epic Battle thing, in the future I will have to do raids with a group/fellowship involving heavy fighting? No way around it if I want to finish the epic story?

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No, that's not true. The whole epic is solo friendly. No grouping/raiding needed.

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Originally Posted by Hephburz-2

There is no difference. You don't like the system involved (raids) to tell part of the story - He doesn't like the system involved (epic battles) to tell part of the story. Just because one is soloable and one requires 11 other people is neither here nor there.

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It's everywhere here and everywhere there, it's the one essential that matters, one can be overcome - solo - and the other simply can't. End of story. That's something that OP's hesitation above has showed perfectly just now.

But from myself, I can tell that luckily many of the raid stories aren't as essential and only some needed fragments/snippets of them are, but it's not something to quit over either because the storyline and locales are worth it (plus, being lvl 100+, you've already been though similar ordeals with past content and it only gets better from here because newer instances like 3 man and 6 man they introduced 1 person versions for those - and they're easy peasy too)

And yeah, technically, the "Epic" stories alone don't require any raids completed, so no more such barriers like with Epic Battles.

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

It's everywhere here and everywhere there, it's the one essential that matters, one can be overcome - solo - and the other simply can't. End of story.

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If that's what you need to tell yourself.

Which server do you play on? If it's Laurelin, I'd be happy to group for any epic battle you want. Apart from Retaking Pelargir, you'll have Defence of Minas Tirith and Hammer of the Underworld as Vol. 4 Book 4 comes to an end. I think you can complete epic battles beforehand and be able to skip the relevant epic quest when the time comes. For example, I'd run Retaking Pelargir way before level 100, and whenever I reached Aragorn's camp I'd be able to skip the step that wanted me to run the battle. You could run the battles I've written above with someone else and be able to skip them when you reach those quests.

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Originally Posted by Halphast

I don't agree with the opening post at all- I don't think Pelargir is stupid and it IS part of the story... but with Storied Tales only existing in Helm's Deep this was bound to happen. Someone's eventually going to complain when they get to Pelargir and can't skip it. A brand new player who thought "these epic battles are too complicated for me" would have no clue what to do with the side objectives, bosses, etc in Pelargir.

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I used to skip HD epic battles on most characters because spending hours without result is devastating. Finally, we have something to get around them and I can't thank MoL enough for doing this because there is an important story told right after which is missed without completion. You have no clue what to do in these battles, no matter which one you start with. They are a completely different game. Pelagir can be skipped without loosing to much of the story, if any. You can also do epic battles whenever a group looks for players no matter what level and they count for the epic. On my server Pel is still run and MT battles, you can snooze through.

I still can't solo Pelagir on any character since I only play the battles for the epic.

I can understand your frustration, but the story is great even if you miss the battle and a bit after.

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Originally Posted by wispsong

You have no clue what to do in these battles, no matter which one you start with. They are a completely different game.

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This makes me wonder now. Does the tutorial even still exist? There used to be one back in the day. Though even if it does exist, being able to skip Helm's Deep ones (and thus tutorial) certainly does not bode well for one who chose to do so once they run into Pelergir. Sounds like there should be a more streamlined tutorial or one available next to each starting point on landscape (or from Epic Battle panel).

The solo version is practically be a commander and don't waste time on extra activities, buff your guys up, though Pel is a little bit weirder.

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

This makes me wonder now. Does the tutorial even still exist? There used to be one back in the day. Though even if it does exist, being able to skip Helm's Deep ones (and thus tutorial) certainly does not bode well for one who chose to do so once they run into Pelergir. Sounds like there should be a more streamlined tutorial or one available next to each starting point on landscape (or from Epic Battle panel).

The solo version is practically be a commander and don't waste time on extra activities, buff your guys up, though Pel is a little bit weirder.

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Pretty sure it's still available at Helm's Deep, but I can't guarantee it. As others have advised, just skip the side quests and the bosses. Let the soldiers do all the fighting.

Thanks for the many friendly advices. (There was one very unfriendly, but it has disappeared.) This really is a very friendly forum.

I will digest and try to understand all that was written. I still have my character, so there may be a future for him after all...

I have to say, much of the gameplay is still a mystery to me, and I am not a fan of overly complex game mechanisms which for me get in the way of the story. LOTRO for me is special because it is apparently made with a lot of care. The scenery is stunning and the game is fairly true to the story from the books. They of course did a lot of side stories which are not in the books but fit very well. Many side quests are fun and you meet some interesting characters. Very well done. As said, the fighting is not my cup of tea but of course you need difficulties to overcome or else the thing gets boring. No issue with that.

As some have said, LOTRO is immense and you have a say in what you do and what you skip, according to taste. It will take you a very long time to explore everything, and that is realistic because in real life it's the same.

And sometimes you have a choice. Not so long ago, I don't remember when or where, I had a choice: do the hard fighting, or have the story presented to me (with a bit of fighting to be sure). Being given that choice I liked a lot, and I wish I could have the same with Pelargir. And I ask myself: why not? There will be others like me who would be very happy with that.

Thanks to all, an in particular to Tralfazz for his links and encouragement, and to professorcat12 for his offer to help out. I am indeed on Laurelin, and I may take you up on it, once I figure out how.

I don't know about Laurelin, but on Landroval there are still occasional Pelargir runs being advertised on the LFF channel. Keep your eyes open or just send out a message that you're looking for a group and I bet you can assemble one.

Pelargir not that hard and not enough reason to say goodbye to this wonderfull game

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Originally Posted by Jeroen4593

Thanks for the many friendly advices. (There was one very unfriendly, but it has disappeared.) This really is a very friendly forum.

I will digest and try to understand all that was written. I still have my character, so there may be a future for him after all...

I have to say, much of the gameplay is still a mystery to me, and I am not a fan of overly complex game mechanisms which for me get in the way of the story. LOTRO for me is special because it is apparently made with a lot of care. The scenery is stunning and the game is fairly true to the story from the books. They of course did a lot of side stories which are not in the books but fit very well. Many side quests are fun and you meet some interesting characters. Very well done. As said, the fighting is not my cup of tea but of course you need difficulties to overcome or else the thing gets boring. No issue with that.

As some have said, LOTRO is immense and you have a say in what you do and what you skip, according to taste. It will take you a very long time to explore everything, and that is realistic because in real life it's the same.

And sometimes you have a choice. Not so long ago, I don't remember when or where, I had a choice: do the hard fighting, or have the story presented to me (with a bit of fighting to be sure). Being given that choice I liked a lot, and I wish I could have the same with Pelargir. And I ask myself: why not? There will be others like me who would be very happy with that.

Thanks to all, an in particular to Tralfazz for his links and encouragement, and to professorcat12 for his offer to help out. I am indeed on Laurelin, and I may take you up on it, once I figure out how.

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I sent you a private forum message about my character and some details.

About having choices between the heavy combat and story focused instance version, as stated in previous messages by others, it was a pet project of the quest developer MadeofLions, as far as I know. Maybe eventually these battles can get story focused versions. Considering trait points that were tied to epic battles can now be earned simply by levelling, I think I have started to less and less epic battle calls in Looking For Fellowship channel. So a story focused alternative can definitely help people get through it on their own pace.

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Originally Posted by Jeroen4593

Thanks to all, an in particular to Tralfazz for his links and encouragement, and to professorcat12 for his offer to help out. I am indeed on Laurelin, and I may take you up on it, once I figure out how.

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I feel the same, although I'm not on Laurelin. I hate hearing that someone wants to quit after so long, when I would happily jump into a Fellowship and help you through Pelargir so you can get back to enjoying the game.

Are you in a kinship? That's one of the great benefits of a good kin, you can say "I'm really frustrated by X" and someone will be happy to help you out. If not, the lotro community discord is good, and failing that, maybe you'll find help here on the forums. :)