Character Creation Thoughts

First of all, loving all the new options, these are fantastic and much more than I ever expected to see! Most of my characters have had the same look since open beta(and beta in a few cases), but there are a number of options I look forward to playing with on them. Always seen my hunter/ranger character with a more native american look to her, and getting my easterling refugee champion to look more easterling is going to be fun. Gondor and dale were both melting pots. I hope we get more diversity for elves, dwarves and hobbits eventually too. (I've noticed between this and the upcoming magic the gathering set a greater push for diversity in Middle-earth and I'm ecstatic)

I might have more feedback in general but I wanted to touch on one thing that I see many, many games fail at - properly rendering darker skin. Though my wife points out that there are some issues with the way even lighter skin looks around the eyes and mouths.

Basically, the darker options are all very ashen, with no reflection. Lighter skin is generally more transparent so you see the color more easily, but darker skin is generally more reflective of light.

This might also help with issues where facial features disappear into the face and become harder to see.

I want to add that the older hairstyles seem to look better, a little smoother texture-wise. There are definitely some issues with some of the newer hairstyles where some don't appear to be fitting on the head properly.

I made a video for those who want to see a Preview, I like the changes very much, but yeah some hair styles are off and need adjusting such as Hairstyle 56 for Female on back of head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIGg9Y5R8_E

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Originally Posted by SniperCT

I hope we get more diversity for elves, dwarves and hobbits eventually too.

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You have many god points and feedback, but its will be immensly lore breaking to give more diversity to the elves. No problem with dwarfs or hobbits.
Im afraid to say anything more, because some of the issues that can challenge SSG on such a change to the elves, can get me banned. They are v e r y sensitive to such.

Face complexions all look dirty. Every skin colour seems to have a greyish look to it and difficult to find actual human colours.

No natural blond hair colours anymore, just bright yellow.

Mix of bags, good and bad things in same time. Maybe SSG need get feedback from players AND MEE before doing this

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Originally Posted by SniperCT

First of all, loving all the new options, these are fantastic and much more than I ever expected to see! Most of my characters have had the same look since open beta(and beta in a few cases), but there are a number of options I look forward to playing with on them. Always seen my hunter/ranger character with a more native american look to her, and getting my easterling refugee champion to look more easterling is going to be fun. Gondor and dale were both melting pots. I hope we get more diversity for elves, dwarves and hobbits eventually too. (I've noticed between this and the upcoming magic the gathering set a greater push for diversity in Middle-earth and I'm ecstatic)

I might have more feedback in general but I wanted to touch on one thing that I see many, many games fail at - properly rendering darker skin. Though my wife points out that there are some issues with the way even lighter skin looks around the eyes and mouths.

Basically, the darker options are all very ashen, with no reflection. Lighter skin is generally more transparent so you see the color more easily, but darker skin is generally more reflective of light.

This might also help with issues where facial features disappear into the face and become harder to see.

I want to add that the older hairstyles seem to look better, a little smoother texture-wise. There are definitely some issues with some of the newer hairstyles where some don't appear to be fitting on the head properly.

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In my opinion, finally the devs made a steer on the right direction! It is not about if i can find some particular choice pretty or not. That is way too subjective & each person can have a different personal preference about it. It is the fact that now they are divided by more categories of customizations & richer sliders. Now that those new sliders exist, the Devs can simply add more marked or softer variations without taking away the few new ones that are on Bullroarer now. It is up to each player to decide how they will make their toon look depending how they envisioned it on their mind. Now we are a step closer to be able to more accurately reflect them. At the moment, it is only tested on humans, can't wait to see those sliders released on hobbitses, dwarfs & elfs as well!:cool:

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Originally Posted by SniperCT

First of all, loving all the new options, these are fantastic and much more than I ever expected to see!
[...]
I want to add that the older hairstyles seem to look better, a little smoother texture-wise. There are definitely some issues with some of the newer hairstyles where some don't appear to be fitting on the head properly.

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I've selected what I agree on with OP here, yes, I think the added options are awesome and will make us not look all alike.. I mostly play elves tho, so I'll have to wait. Idk about people here but I've encountered players who could be my twins really often xD so this adds to the "uniqueness" as SSG chose to call it.

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Originally Posted by Aranaan

You have many god points and feedback, but its will be immensly lore breaking to give more diversity to the elves. No problem with dwarfs or hobbits.
Im afraid to say anything more, because some of the issues that can challenge SSG on such a change to the elves, can get me banned. They are v e r y sensitive to such.

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Originally Posted by Bromlin

Although I appreciate additional customization options in general, I find some of them lore-breaking at least with Rohan, Breeland and Dale men. Some of the new hairstyles are a sad joke, as are beards for women. This is simply ridiculous. Would not appreciate similar options for hobbits, not to speak of elves for god's sake.

I won't be discussing this further though out of obvious reasons, so this is likely to be my last post on the subject. Well, it's just a jump on the woke train, anyway, so I guess this is what you have to expect from a US company nowadays. Just my 2 cents.

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Isn't it sad that even when we're respectful we're afraid to talk nowadays? The idea of debate has gone down the drain. I do agree with you both and I wonder how much closer to a blacklist it puts us to even say so. Even if my caveat is: there's more options available to EVERYBODY and we have the choice to use them or not. That's never a bad thing, in my humble opinion. It's SSG's decision after all but it's not an imposition. Would I be sad to see them take Elves the way other fantasy does? Yea, ROP-adaptation style is not my headcanon but then again, it's SSG's choice and we take it or leave it.

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Originally Posted by andys90

Face complexions all look dirty. Every skin colour seems to have a greyish look to it and difficult to find actual human colours.

No natural blond hair colours anymore, just bright yellow.

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I do agree on the complexions. They all look like serious cases of bad skin. Funnily enough that's something that usually gets modded in games for better quality, smoother skin.

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Originally Posted by Laurelinarien

Isn't it sad that even when we're respectful we're afraid to talk nowadays? The idea of debate has gone down the drain. I do agree with you both and I wonder how much closer to a blacklist it puts us to even say so.

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People aren't blacklisted or banned for opinions; the topic is being avoided because we've proven repeatedly that we can't have this discussion respectfully.

I like the idea of more options.

The only thing I am hoping is that my characters still look the way they did when I created them originally. I'd hate to log in to the Bull Roar server and see the character I created no longer looks the way I created them.

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Originally Posted by Halphast

People aren't blacklisted or banned for opinions; the topic is being avoided because we've proven repeatedly that we can't have this discussion respectfully.

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When why SSG making such risk moves to motivate player start that hot topics and discussions? As example, they can avoid it by not adding beards to female characters and keep them only if you have dwarf.

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Originally Posted by Halphast

People aren't blacklisted or banned for opinions; the topic is being avoided because we've proven repeatedly that we can't have this discussion respectfully.

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I don't agree. It's the opinions themselves which are regarded as disrespectful, limiting the debate in such a way that you have to agree to certain views or be discarded from the discussion. Which means there is no debate at all, only given views that you have to accept. Don't believe it? The following quote says it all:

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

NOTE: We will not be permitting discussion of the wider cultural war or politics as it relates to the avatar update. Any player to engages in such discussion can expect to be removed from the forums.

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They do it because they can, and won't allow a discussion about it. The whole matter is kind of self-revealing, so there is no need for commenting it. I find this whole thing absolutely ridiculous, and if anyone feels better by being able to play a bearded asian woman then fine, go on. I don't care. It's lore-breaking, but brawlers probably are, too, so just go ahead. I already said more than I intended to and I don't want to hijack this thread.

I have looked at all the options, and I have only a couple of objections:

1. Female humans do NOT grow beards - this is a silly option which will spoil the immersion when seen

2. Female body shapes are either too curvy up the top or too curvy around the hips - a slimmer, straighter option should be available

Other than that I like the opportunity to refine the facial features in closer detail, though I would have liked to have some less elaborate hair styles added.

I've been playing this game for more than ten years now. I'm so enthusiastic about it that I recently started my second completionist character.
Some of those new possibilities are lore-breaking to such an extent that my first thought (and while being horrified by the idea, I knew the feeling was genuine nonetheless) was: If such comic-book characters overrun Middle Earth, I'll have to leave. The compelling imersion broken.
I'm crying for the loss already.


[EDIT] Sorry for being so melodramatic but even though I look forward to the new great variability in general, I'm still in shock about some decisions that were made. Especially some hairstyles are utterly anachronistic (not as in "old-fashioned", but as in "existing out of its time in history"). And I won't even start about female beards... [/EDIT]

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Originally Posted by Aranaan

You have many god points and feedback, but its will be immensly lore breaking to give more diversity to the elves. No problem with dwarfs or hobbits.
Im afraid to say anything more, because some of the issues that can challenge SSG on such a change to the elves, can get me banned. They are v e r y sensitive to such.

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So my dear we want to talk about the series "The ring of Power"? already there are elves of different colors and ethnicities ... personally I know that we will get to that later BtW ... however by now it counts that we are in an era where diversity and increasingly taken into consideration more than ever before... it's clear that these changes are not simple especially for a game set in middle earth like this... anything can be gamebreaking and it's SSG's job to make it " Compatible" with game lore and source material as well.

The only thing I wish the Character creator had was option to drag the colors for Hair, eyes and face rather then having to just click anywhere on the colors to see the changes applied, would be nice to see smooth changes rather then click click click.

Long overdue changes. Thank you.

Did they really add beards for women....

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Originally Posted by Fenix43

it's clear that these changes are not simple especially for a game set in middle earth like this... anything can be gamebreaking and it's SSG's job to make it " Compatible" with game lore and source material as well.

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They're not making it compatible, clearly, and luckily they don't exactly need to if it's just avatar character, this "gamey thing", in the same box as hobbit Loremasters and that whole bunch. Still. With some of these choices I get the feeling it was done by the same artist/artists who did Hersegg and Fastrith, these peculiar "dwarven" women. So keep these people away from landscape characters, is all I can say... Even better, take charge of what you actually introduce visually on landscape and keep some decent consistency with consistent idea of how things are supposed to look like and be done. Also, keep it in mind for landscape it's supposed to be ancient-like medieval-like setting.......

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Originally Posted by Tarbel

Did they really add beards for women....

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This one is the most off though, I don't really know of any game that does it. Even the most colorful pinky-hair ones (with actual rich representation in plots, conveyed through characters' personalities) try to stick to the basic medieval-like fantasy setting and wanna their random character generation to end up in something that looks somewhat decently. Here it's like someone just smoked a joint and said whaaaateeever, or maybe were on a personal crusade do outdo a certain tv series for some reason.

Great changes well needed for a game in 2023.
Lotro should be for everyone <3

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Originally Posted by Pontin_Finnberry

I made a video for those who want to see a Preview, I like the changes very much, but yeah some hair styles are off and need adjusting such as Hairstyle 56 for Female on back of head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIGg9Y5R8_E

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Overall I like the audacity of this update... this gives me a lot of hope for the future for other races and the countless characters and RP possibilities... that's "AMBITION" SSG congrats! however... there are some details that can be improved... such as the texture of the face... I noticed that for example the texture of the ears is not really well done and neither of the mouth... I think there is a problem with the UV's in the model and it wasn't mapped well I think it's fixable... and on old hairstyles and beards...i believe that old hair styles have to be in line with the new ones they added… I never liked that hair I always found a leazy way to please the veterans because they weren't happy to recognize their own character they created in the 2007 I still remember the first time I discussed this topic back in the Mordor beta days... people were complaining a lot about hair and faces not representing their characters etc... this time they are glad that SSG finally got the balls out and screwed up all those LOTRO classic handys (no offense) i'm not saying that i'm defending SSG but it's right that SSG must have their own ideas and we must be constructive with their choices, but returning to the subject of hair, I personally believe that the old hair must be updated in line with the new modern standards that are taking place on LOTRO, I still think of the models of the South-Axe and of how much better hairstyles and beards than that race compared to the others...elf,human,hobbit,dwar f ,Beorning and High Elf,they always had these basic hideous hairstyles...which in the end is a reskin of the old ones they just changed the texture and that's it,people who they say the graphics engine of LOTRO is limited and SSG does what it can and an excuse crosses like a house because even from such an old engine SSG is pulling out beautiful cosmetics and environments even if limited for graphics ... so it's not completely impossible create more "Modern" hairstyles that don't dismember put them so much for...


This new hairstyle for example is beautiful and realistic at the same time and for LOTRO's graphic engine and so much stuff... these for me must be the standard of hairstyles as for Sout-Ax they are modern detailed and beautiful to see:

https://i.imgur.com/ZiKEjqL.png

But hairstyles like this… they are boring and sad… and unrealistic… not to mention that for example some hairstyles on elves for a long time are also buggy and have black parts and transparent holes from the last time I've seen them...these hairstyles need to be rearranged in line with LOTRO's modern standards:

https://i.imgur.com/zKF3fXX.png

So SSG please I swear don't listen to those classic Handy's and don't be afraid to take risks... you said your goal was to be ambitious right? so be ambitious! modernized the old models of the beards and the old hairstyles (actually adjusted the textures a bit I noticed that the textures of the new ears and face don't match well maybe a problem with UV's maps I don't know) on LOTRO's modern artistic standards, I'm tired of seeing South-Axes have nicer and more detailed hairstyles and beards than other races, I know that for my elf I will have to wait but I hope you can take my feedback into consideration... problem i can restyle her hairstyles but for goodness sake rework them and make them up to par with now standards.

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Originally Posted by Tarbel

Did they really add beards for women....

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If this makes it to Live, it's a mockery of the source material.

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Originally Posted by Fenix43

I know that for my elf I will have to wait but I hope you can take my feedback into consideration... problem i can restyle her hairstyles but for goodness sake rework them and make them up to par with now standards.

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Agree about the old hairstyles. Or, since more = the better, they could have just added some new straight long hairstyles too, not sure why they didn't from the looks of it and why only these highly specific (some overly modern) hairstyles?

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

Agree about the old hairstyles. Or, since more = the better, they could have just added some new straight long hairstyles too, not sure why they didn't from the looks of it and why only these highly specific (some overly modern) hairstyles?

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Not only the hair but also the beards need a glowup in line with LOTRO's modern standards, For example many Rohan NPCs have so many beautiful hairstyles for humans as well as for the elven NPCs there too there are so many beautiful hairstyles and I still can't believe why SSG didn't just add them as a potion...The reason they didn't tweak the old hairstyles much... and why you have Mordor beta times as I explained earlier many "Classic Handys" complained that the hairstyles in the first Avatar beta update in Mordor for Elves and humans" they didn't represent the characters they created back in 2007" because in fact during the mordor beta SSG had created a semi-realistic version of the classic hairstyles similar to how I showed in the first picture but unfortunately the community at that time was too conservative and there was too much aura of "dare to make changes" at the time, but now it's all different DDS this year wants to be ambitious and therefore I hope he will be just as ambitious with making old hairstyles and beards to modern LOTRO standards,I know I know I repeat myself too many times but this is a topic I'm very concerned about and I don't think I'm the only one... once it was already a losing battle for me... but this time I'm convinced I can do it win because I agree with having more diversity and customization in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by LagunaD2

If this makes it to Live, it's a mockery of the source material.

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Yes... maybe this is the only option that I would remove ineffectual and a bit strange... honestly it would make more sense on female dwarves than on humans.