An Update: On Upcoming Changes to Hunters

I used to be a semi Melee Hunter before the last update. I aimed to have high Agility High Might High Vitality High Evade and High Parry. ( Granted High Morale in hindsight is superior to high parry and high evade as it's easier to get for some unknown reason the gear is set so you can get ~ +5% Evade and Parry from your gear max but 3000+ HP) Naturally it leaves you with a low power regen and melee skills aren't free so I'd be in Strength of the Earth quite frequently. As the last update nerfed it to death it killed Melee as you'd have to give up high vitality for high fate which would make you squishier and less useful at melee range due to not being able to take hits as easily.

Since the update my play time went from 3 hours a day to about 10 minutes a day. Drastic Changes to a build make it so that people want to quit and are annoyed. I'd suggest instead of changing the Melee on the hunter at this point and forcing it down peoples throats to allow a break off into 2 Classes. Hunters are already ridiculously popular so a split would not make one or the other obscure most likely. Archer and Hunter. When I choose a hunter I choose it because I like bow's and I liked Legolas and the idea of hunting things. From reading this thread and other posts many people like the Hunter for Being a Nuker and Having a Bow. Make the lines split at 65 for existing characters and for new characters add Archer as another choice. Give the Archer line increased damage over the hunter line and the hunter lines current skills. Give the new hunter line more melee damage more tracking and trapping and more melee skills with less ranged damage than the archer and higher Evade and Parry.

For Pure DPS the Archer would be superior to the Hunter but the hunter would be more useful and slightly more survivable.



Bowmaster: My main goal is to remove the strong tie to Strength Stance. This does not mean nerfs, only that the buffs Bowmaster bestows onto S:S will apply regardless of stance. This change indicates a general shift in the stance design on the class. All stance altering traits and set bonuses will be repurposed and their buffs will be redistributed. My intention is to allow Hunters of all traitlines the ability to change stance based on circumstances. As part of this, I'll be changing the stances around to ensure each of them is better at what they do well. Besides that the Bowmaster will be very close to what it is now.

Might having to stance hop make things a bit button mashy and might it also overpower precision ? Strength Stance is currently +10% Damage + 15% Power Cost . Precision is -1300 BE + Lower Miss Chance . If both get the +7% damage and +7% Power might Strength become useless except for the slow and pulling agro?



Huntsman: While I knew that bringing up melee would pique peoples curiosity, I admit to being taken aback by how much negativity it generated. Legolas quickly dispatching enemies at range and in melee is the archtype the class was built on and one that many still identify with. A monthly update was not enough time to make the kind that would bring the Huntsman up to a Legolas standard, but an expansion is. Before I say anymore, yes, I understand that Hunters do not use melee much. I believe that this is more because that there is little reason or benefit, not because it isn't exciting to switch between melee and ranged combat during a fight. However, it seems I did my job too well in the last update, many are rather fond of the state the Huntsman is in and do not want it changed. Such feedback has effected me, and I'm backing off from making the Huntsman a melee/ranged hybrid. Instead, minor edits like Bowmaster will be made, mainly removing traits that effect specific stances.
That said, here are some details for what I was planning for the line: All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed), extending Fleetness to buff melee, make quickshot usable while moving (ie: no induction). Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

Melee skills giving more focus would be nice. Quickshot while moving would be interesting possibly OP. Swapping from Ranged to Melee would probably become annoying if it's forced due to a large damage bonus.


Trapper of Foes: "But you just made it awesome, don't nerf it!" Don't worry, I'm not changing Trapper to nerf it. When the last update hit, a lot of feedback on the line was focused on the damage reduction still being unappreciated, and penshot still not being what people hoped for. I intend on changing both of those. Further, the realities of endgame are that CC is often negated by boss mechanics, making a class that CC's focus on support through debuffs, buffs or restoration. The trapper will trade some of his straight CC for more generally applicable support abilities. Lastly, I'm going to try to add new trap mechanics in that make the Trapper more about traps!

I haven't run trapper more than a week at a time ever so can't comment

I'm up for this Huntsman revamp. Pls also add more melee damage or skills that are AOE, especially an AOE stun melee skill to help us when we're swarmed. I also liked the suggestion to have a merciful shot-type melee attack when the enemies health is at 50%. I've always liked to be a range/melee hybrid character even with other MMORPGs and played such characters. Right now, the LOTRO hunter is only good at range, and their melee damage and skills suck forcing all hunters to be pure archers.

Improving our ability to fight in melee does not make us Champ or Guardian wannabees, people; it will just make our class better and more diverse. Mind you, not all hunter players want to be "just" a pure range DPS types. So, stop with the "if I wanted to do melee, I'll roll a Cap, Champ, Guardian" mentality.

ZC, do not listen to the whiners, make the Hunter class as it was meant to be from the start. A range class that can finish off enemies when in melee. (Also, check out Haldir and the other rangers with Faramir in the movies, they are very capable with their swords not just their bows. And FYI, the "trapper" type of hunters are also based on rangers if you read the books)

I strongly feel that there's a reason the Hunter should stay ranged. If you wanted to play as a melee damage character you should be rolling a Champion and enjoying everything that they have to offer. As the Hunter stands now the class requires that you figure out how to keep the opponent at range, ((Or do your job in a group and stay out of trouble.)) or die. Adding Huntsman melee removes all penalty for poor play and brings nothing to the table from a group stand point. It essentially will become the solo tree. Irregardless of Halvaethor's protests, making it straight melee with no niche would be a blind waste of an opportunity to add an actual group role to the Hunter's arsenal.

We shouldn't be finding more ways to let people solo effortlessly, we should be finding ways to bring them into a team play role. Maybe changing Trapper of Foes to a support role is a good idea after all. Add additional cures or even heals or power regens, debuffs to the enemy ect. Huntsman has always been about finding your target swiftly and attacking many at once. Honestly I feel that if you're going to change huntsman, swap it into an AoE range line much like what the Champions will soon be enjoying. Give it an ability to keep inductions low and add additional AoE capability while not drawing additional threat. This would borrow concepts from Trapper of Foes and focus reductions of Huntsman and adding additional AoE's on different cool downs to allow a Hunter to AoE effectively. As a compromise for those who do desire some melee, why not turn some of the blade strikes like Low Cut into an AoE when traited down this line?

You could barrow from the few melee attacks we already have, including dazing blow as someone suggested, but also bow attacks. Lower the cool down on Rain of Arrows and it's threat, give us an AoE Low Cut and Dazing Blow when going deep into blue and remove some of the generated threat.

Just my two coppers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verdic

I strongly feel that there's a reason the Hunter should stay ranged. If you wanted to play as a melee damage character you should be rolling a Champion and enjoying everything that they have to offer. As the Hunter stands now the class requires that you figure out how to keep the opponent at range, ((Or do your job in a group and stay out of trouble.)) or die. Adding Huntsman melee removes all penalty for poor play and brings nothing to the table from a group stand point. It essentially will become the solo tree. Irregardless of Halvaethor's protests, making it straight melee with no niche would be a blind waste of an opportunity to add an actual group role to the Hunter's arsenal.

We shouldn't be finding more ways to let people solo effortlessly, we should be finding ways to bring them into a team play role.

Just my two coppers.

---

Right when you solo pve. Wrong when you solo skirmishe (T2 and T3 of course). Quite right when you play in a pve group(6+) but wrong when you are in the Moors. In these cases, all fight will be handle in close combat.
A well balanced line (close combat+range combat) will help then.


And no, i don't want to play a champion to survive in close combat. A hunter (like his description state it), should be able to handle this.

Maybe, melee attacks

in BM will grant more damage
in HM will give more focus
in TOF will cause more cc

~~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halvaethor

Improving our ability to fight in melee does not make us Champ or Guardian wannabees, people; it will just make our class better and more diverse. Mind you, not all hunter players want to be "just" a pure range DPS types. So, stop with the "if I wanted to do melee, I'll roll a Cap, Champ, Guardian" mentality.

---

But thats exactly the point.
Ever heard Champions whining about their ranged abilities?

I can understand the desire of some people of the hunter community to receive a major overhaul
to their melee skills.
But these people also have to see that many other hunters are active raidmembers. And in a raid scenario its not possible to get in melee range to benefit from the melee buffs most of the time.

After reading the awesome chapion changes i hope that ZC give a major buff to all 3 traitlines.

I want to mention it again:
Please dont forget the Huntsmen player who play mainly in raids.
Because hunters in meleerange during boss encounters are rare and a dps loss.
Or grant Bowmaster the ability for fast shots and high focus generation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aestiliath

And no, i don't want to play a champion to survive in close combat. A hunter (like his description state it), should be able to handle this.

---

well said! ranged.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ithrien

well said! ranged.....

---

No :

If a foe manages to close into melee, the Hunter’s dual-wielded weapons are capable of dealing the final blow.

(from the Lorebook)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daeloth07

Or grant Bowmaster the ability for fast shots and high focus generation.

---

I was actually thinking about suggesting this. Make the Bowmaster the absolute traitline for pure archers. Take the best parts about Huntsman and transfer it to Bowmaster. And then revamp the Huntsman line for better melee fighting (Again, not as good as the Champ, Guardians, Wardens, etc. Just good enough to be worth using unlike the sorry state of our melee skills at the moment.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daeloth07

But thats exactly the point.
Ever heard Champions whining about their ranged abilities?

---

Champions will not whine about their ranged abilities because they only use it to pull mobs into melee range where they obviously excel at. Whereas the Hunter will be forced to attack in melee when the enemy manages to survive his range attacks and comes near. How about this for a suggestion: Just make Scourging Blow the Merciful Shot equivalent for melee attacks. Once the enemy is below 50% this attack will finish him off. That way, there would be no need to revamp the Huntsman line and everyone will be happy.

Another suggestion would be to make the Improved Dazing Blow an AOE so that Hunters can run from multiple enemies and start pew-pewing from a distance again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aestiliath

No :

If a foe manages to close into melee, the Hunter’s dual-wielded weapons are capable of dealing the final blow.

(from the Lorebook)

---

How about a melee version of Merciful shot for low/half health targets that increases focus. An ability that sets up the use of merciful shot. Build focus and do dmg with merciful strike, use that focus for merciful shot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Creslin07

How about a melee version of Merciful shot for low/half health targets that increases focus. An ability that sets up the use of merciful shot. Build focus and do dmg with merciful strike, use that focus for merciful shot.

---

Agree but we need more. To be in tune withe the lorebook, hunters need :
1- some way to boost our damages at close range
2- to fight and move in the same time while using our melee attack or closed range attack but we need to handle the induction so...More shot skills on the move will help a lot and will make everyone happy(people who wants to stay in archer archetype or people who wants to be more like Legolas ;) )

One thought (from another post):
Desperate Flight- Make it do what it says (not warp to a rez circle). +200% run speed for 15s on a 30m cooldown. You cannot be CCed, however you cannot attack for the entire 15s, so it cannot be used for offensive gain.

We could think of something like this also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daeloth07

Please dont forget the Huntsmen player who play mainly in raids.
Because hunters in meleerange during boss encounters are rare and a dps loss.

---

BECAUSE our melee skills and auto attacks suck... there are still plenty of fights in the game where fellowship and raid leaders prefer everyone (Even ranged) to be essentially in melee range, mainly to keep everyone grouped up. NCF last boss, DN Mistress, BG lieutenant, SG every boss, etc... that's enough fights that hunter DPS can go way down if the hunter ain't staying out of melee range, but that the hunter certainly ain't far out of melee range

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daeloth07

Or grant Bowmaster the ability for fast shots and high focus generation.

---

that's why i suggest:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forgotten_Legend

i still recommend removing the induction speed bonus from huntsman and instead making it passive traits earned at higher levels... (maybe 5% reduction at 35, another 5% at 45, another 5% at 55, another 5% at 65... well, you get the idea)

---

if our induction speed is reduced through passive traits learned from our trainer (which makes sense to me, as an archer improves his skill, s/he would be able to noch, aim, fire more quickly) then we can choose our class traits and traitlines based on something more than +damage or +attack speed... right now there's really no difference in play between BM and HM. you can use the same skills in the same order. either with long inductions and 20% more damage per arrow, or with 20% shorter inductions and less damage per arrow.

Question for ZC:

With the revamp, do you intend to stick to the design that we have to throttle our dps while in groups? Mainly because if we try to do our potential max dps it comes with cost - threat and power.

Power has been taken care of in the last few updates in most of the cases, but threat generation/management is still an issue if you aim for max dps.

Also I would like to know if you think it is fun and ok, that premier single target dps class has to hold back with dps while trying to perform its role in group?

I just wanted to post this link about a hunter's tracking bug
looking to see if I can get more feedback on it, which hopefully could get some dev attention, or if ZC could reply to it.
It has been occurring since the update 3, and happens about half the time that I use any tracking skill. I don't see any 'pattern' to it. Happens in raids/solo, in the moors/out of the moors.
I /bugged it, but recieved no response.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...2-Tracking-bug

One thing i would hope to be considered for this class Revamp. A trait to reduce induction pushback. I know we have needfull haste with the trait, but can we have a trait that just also helps ?

Something along the lines of your bar can only be pushed back once or twice, before the induction will go off. I love my hunter, and inductions are the name of the game, but sometimes its just REALLY REALLY annoying if NH is on cooldown and you got 2 or more birds,adds,guys beating on you.

Thanks
Aug

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arvaethor1

One thing i would hope to be considered for this class Revamp. A trait to reduce induction pushback. I know we have needfull haste with the trait, but can we have a trait that just also helps ?

Something along the lines of your bar can only be pushed back once or twice, before the induction will go off. I love my hunter, and inductions are the name of the game, but sometimes its just REALLY REALLY annoying if NH is on cooldown and you got 2 or more birds,adds,guys beating on you.

Thanks
Aug

---

Consider this: a Ranged/Melee hybrid would have less of an issue with induction push-back due to very few, if any, induction skills being used.

I would be very happy with that Saint. When set upon by 2 or 3 birds or fast attacking cats inductions are impossible and just not fun.

If we had respectable Melee abilities with no inductions that did good damage, i would have only praise :)

zc u may have said this in ur last post but a lot of ppl say u would just ADD melee stuff to huntsman not take away some of the ranged right? and also what about a skill (or improved skill) that lessens enemy armor and makes them more vulnerable to crits and make this so that in a fellow every one gets the increase crit chance?

and i want to bring this back up could we at least get a bit more power with sote becouse its sad when a pot does more

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaintBass

Consider this: a Ranged/Melee hybrid would have less of an issue with induction push-back due to very few, if any, induction skills being used.

---

So.... make a champion?

My advice is if you want to play melee, create a champ. They're great for melee. But if you want to play a hunter, you are a RANGED combatant. You see, that's what a hunter is. His tools are bows and crossbows and arrows and bolts. A hunter shouldn't know which end of a sword to hold, and his skills should reflect this.

What Turbine did wrong with the hunter is they got carried away with inductions. And that created a monstrosity that is absolutely defenseless when two or more birds attack. As weak as birds are, they are FAST, and they interrupt inductions, and since the hunter is a long induction class, it really isn't suited for fighting anything that can defeat the inductions. That's why most hunters have enough brains to get out to RANGE and stay at ranged.

If the class needs anything at all since that last *very nice* update, it needs a "rain of thorns" like skill that has no induction and gives us a few seconds to back out of a melee battle and get back out to ranged.

All I can say about this bad news is "I KNEW it wouldn't last."

It was a good update, and every time we have anything good happen to the hunter class, Turbine turns around and takes it away.

So I guess we are just too overpowered now?

Here's my problem with that. Some of you guys have INCREDIBLE builds. But you have those builds because you DO NOT play like I do. I play solo. I don't go into high level instances and I don't raid. So you have incredible gear that I will never have. You have jewelry, armor, and legendaries, not to mention legacies and relics I will never see in my life. I've been looking at you people's stats: 6~6.5 k morale, 3000+ power pool, 8k ranged offense and maxed crit. with at least a 2nd age LI and often a 1st age LI.

I've done everything I can humanly do for my hunter OUTSIDE OF INSTANCES AND RAIDS, and he has 4,600 morale, 2700+ power pool, 6400 ranged offense and 14.7% crit with a 4.9 devestating crit factor. About the only thing I've managed to do is miraculously put almost 600 agility on my character!! But very literally, every piece of new gear Turbine has made requires me to sacrifice chunks (big chunks!) of my agility, or bigger chunks of my morale.

That's my best hunter. Level 65, and I don't have ANY of those relics you guys have access to.

I guess if I want something better than that, I need to move off of Nimrodel onto Brandywine where the auction house is said to be viable. My AH on Nimrodel hasn't had hardly a drop of hunter gear in it for ages. Three years ago (before MoM) I had to search the medium armor category by item. Level 65, Breast. But now I can just type in level 65 and search the whole database and I am lucky where there is ONE SINGLE ITEM that comes up.

So obtaining crafted gear isn't really possible anymore on Nimrodel. That's sad. I used to craft. but to make a marchwarden item (level 58) or higher, I need a Mithril Flake just for a CHANCE of a crit, and I also need a second mithril flake to make the item in the first place. Two mithril flakes per item. Maybe nobody noticed but there aren't very often two mithril flakes in the whole game. I've saved every single on that I've ever gotten, and I still don't have enough of them to make one complete set of armor.

Turbine is making this class harder and harder for anyone who doesn't raid or at least run the group instances to get gear. The gap between you guys and me keeps getting bigger and bigger.

For you guys, the game is easy. For me, it takes me practically forever to kill an on-level mob. And if two of something comes at me, I'm forced to run or stand there and die.

The BEST thing that has happened to this class in more than two years was that last update. Because prior to that update, I was a LOT worse off. I'm actually playing the game again because of that update.

But ZC, if you've got plans to undo that, or make changes that are mostly only suitable for those cherried out players, you're going to force me to stop playing again. So when you start making changes, you need to know what I NEED.

Here is what I need:

1) Defense that doesn't depend on gear, since I can't get any gear. (or make it possible to craft good gear again without selling your soul and private parts for a mithril flake that doesn't happen to exist anywhere on the server!!)

2) I need to be able to damage something. You guys are in love with a hunter that doesn't do any DPS. I think you are aiming for ZERO dps for hunters. :D

3) a suicide skill. I should probably just let my hunter kill himself and save the mobs the effort!

4) less threat. I don't need that personally because I ONLY solo. In solo, threat is a non issue. But the whole reason for all these suicidal changes to hunters seems to be to help reduce the threat a hunter generates.

5) last but not least, I need RANGED SKILLS. The only melee skills I need should be skills to help me return the fight to a ranged contest.

Those of you walking around with 6k+ morale and awesome gear and 8~9k ranged offense and great LIs and relics won't agree with this, naturally enough, and I don't blame you. But maybe you guys can come up with some ideas that will help me too.

You see, my problem is that Turbine has created a dilemma for me. I have to spend a fortune in gold (that I don't have) to earn rep with a crafting guild, making items out of materials that will take months to gather, and even more months to afford all the extras.

I don't have the gold. I don't have the mats. I will NEVER have that much gold or that quantity of materials. I'm sorry, but I have to sell the resources I gather just to have enough silver to keep playing the game and paying for all the crazy money sinks Turbine has inflicted on us. If I started crafting for guild rep now, I'd be broke in and hour, my houses would go into foreclosure, and I'd probably give up and go play something else.

And if I had the money and mats to waste on useless items to GIVE to the guild for rep, it still doesn't solve the problem of the EXCEEDINGLY RARE drops of mithril flakes. I KNOW they are rare because I have to mine and forage wood every day to keep up my house. In the two years? since mithril flakes were introduced I've managed to collect 11 of them. I need 3 more for a full set of crafted armor. And that's just for a CHANCE at good armor.

Really, when something is that rare, it should be a GARANTEED crit!

Well, I'm sorry for the length of this general "whine." I was happy with the hunter since our last revamp because I can finally at least PLAY the game again.

Now I am worried that they're going to nerf me again. It might not be much of a nerf to you folks who are all decked out with raid gear, first agers and awesome relics. But a little nerf will probably devastate my hunter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaintBass

I definitely understand the point about the class having just been worked over, but over time, it has been one of the more neglected and seemingly more difficult class to balance. I also agree that the class functions really well right now... and if there is any complaint its in the lack of certain skill functionality and shallowness of play (as others have mentioned).

One thing that makes me much more welcoming of these (potential) changes is that in the past, changes would be made and they weren't always that great (BKs 10 and 11, MoM BK 7) and we would get these promises to review the changes. Now I see a very different approach, where Turbine has made some really good, measured changes and seeing how those have played out, is putting in the effort to be closer to its design ideals and (hopefully) more engaging to play.

I have leveled a lot of criticism at Turbine in the past for seemingly senseless changes and poor communication... so when I actually see logic to some changes and see continuity in development, I don't really sweat it too much. Of course I want to see the details of these changes and give more specific feedback... and I may not even be that fond of the end result (I did suggest the initial ideas for Fleet Stance on these boards), but I will at the very least participate in the discussion and see what the changes are before I protest them.

---

SB, I started this one before I started the post above. Please don't take this personally, as I love your posts and usually agree with most of what you have to say.

With all due respect, SB, they've been trying to turn this class into a melee class since the second update after launch. Plainly and simply: I DO NOT WANT TO BE A MELEE CLASS. I can't say it any plainer than that. If I wanted to play melee, I'd make myself a champ.

I want to play ranged. That's why I chose the hunter class.

The ONLY melee skills I want to see are things like blindside: a knock up the side of the head to get the mob out of my face. Scourging Blow - with some serious "I told you to STAY OUTA MA FACE!" damage. Dazing Blow: "Now stay there while I move and turn this into a RANGED fight again!" That's all the melee I want in a fight. So if your (Turbine's) goal is anything other than that, it's on the wrong track.

And then please read my rant above, since it best explains the problems a casual soloist faces in this game. :)

The only three complaints I can come up with about the CLASS as it stands now is this:

1) I like the Heartseeker skill now. It just needs a bit more 'punch'.

2) The Barbed Arrow skill has a long dead space after the skill. Please eliminate it.

3) The Press Onward skill is useless in solo. If you are grouped, people can keep mobs off of you so that you can actually use that skill. But when soloing, that skill might as well not exist. The induction is just too long if you don't have somebody else holding aggro while you use it. Press Onward is a hunter's friend, but only when he is grouped and probably already has access to healing by a minstrel. Where it is really needed, in solo play, it is totally useless. I don't even have the trait slotted. No point trying to use a heal that has a five second induction. Out of battle, the induction takes longer than it takes me to heal naturally, so I obviously don't need it out of combat.

I don't mind the few melee skills we have now that provide us with buffs but that's as far as it needs to go. I didn't roll this class to do melee. There are 5 melee classes....... Do we really need another? I'd rather they just refine what we are now instead of revamping trait lines again.

No one ever said they were making hunters into a melee class. They simply said that there would be more melee. That could very well be a good thing, depending on its implementation. Buffs to melee are needed. As long as no nerfs to ranged happen, you should not complain that the melee skills you use anyway get more damaging.

Also, @Hammerfast, if you aren't doing raids, then raid gear is irrelevant. I'm sorry you have had trouble obtaining crafted gear, but might I suggest getting in a kinship that could help you out? Or roll up some alts, get them crafting. And mithril flakes drop consistently from certain named mobs in Moria, Lothlorien, and Mirkwood. Also, the Khazad-Iron nodes occasionally have them. I can point you to a list if you want, when I am not typing out responses via iPhone lol.

Also, Volume III has some of the best non-raid gear that exists. And for a second age level 65 bow, 1005 skirmish marks and 5 Third marks will purchase a Symbol of Celebrimbor from the LI vendor at skirmish camps, if I remember correctly. Good luck!

Namárië,
Geldarion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rewrando5

As long as no nerfs to ranged happen, you should not complain that the melee skills you use anyway get more damaging.

---

I've seen this argument used a couple of times now and in my opinion it's incorrect for these reasons reasons;
-If the developer spends his time mainly on changing/tweaking and adding melee skills this would mean that less attention goes to making the ranged combat more interesting. This is why I should complain if too much attention goes to melee skills
-All our skills will/should get a buff when Isengard comes out but if the melee skills get a bigger buff than our ranged (to balance the damage between them) it actually is a nerf to ranged dps (while it may not be a nerf to the class).
-I want to play my hunter to her max potential and if this means that I have to go in melee range in raids Ill do that but it doesnt mean I like it. I choose this class to be a ranged class and I do not like that fighting at range would actually make me do less dps after the update.


Finally I'd like to point out that ZC really needs to do something about the movement penalty if he wants to allow us to combine melee with ranged. The movement penalty on hunters is increadibly high (loosing focus or at least not gaining any when moving and on top of that -95% dps since we can only do auto attack which will miss often). PS is an option too but we cant keep it up while moving ofc. The RKs can move while dps'ing and going into melee (appart from taking more damage) shouldnt hurt their dps that much and the hunters will need something similair.

I see no reason why the Hunter should have a kill zone shaped like a doughnut... even if it is national doughnut day.