Summer LOTRO Executive Producer’s Letter

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Originally Posted by Beaniemooch

Why should my character be renamed just because I may not log in as often as you and created my toon only say 6 years ago as opposed to 8, but you come to my server? How is that fair to me when I still play but maybe not as often as you or perhaps aren't as high a level? And for you to come to my server and take my name and identity? Just no.

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It's not that I *want* to go to another server, but as it appears, the server merges will be forcing people to do so if their home server is chosen to be closed. So why should your character have a stronger claim on the name, just because he/she was not forced to leave their home server?

I still think the older, more active and more high in level character should have the stronger claim on the name - but this should only apply to the "forced" transfers that will be upon us when the smaller servers are being closed, not regular transfers - those should retain their current rules.

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Originally Posted by Deorwyn

It's not that I *want* to go to another server, but as it appears, the server merges will be forcing people to do so if their home server is chosen to be closed. So why should your character have a stronger claim on the name, just because he/she was not forced to leave their home server?

I still think the older, more active and more high in level character should have the stronger claim on the name - but this should only apply to the "forced" transfers that will be upon us when the smaller servers are being closed, not regular transfers - those should retain their current rules.

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I agree strongly. And VIP status should be a factor as well.

I also strongly agree with the person who said that all this is very stressful and I hope they make an announcement soon. At the very least, give people a few months to make plans.

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Originally Posted by danielbrown1969

As to my rationality regarding lifers having topmost priority ... it just stands to reason - they were the ones many years ago that were willing to COMMIT to the game when Turbine asked for it. Yes, they paid less - but they earned more loyalty by doing so. As a business owner with over 25 years experience, I often give my long-standing customers preferred treatment - even over the newer customers who currently spend more. New friends are great, but old ones are golden.

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*Presses the non-existent LIKE button a dozen times*

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Originally Posted by Rufkin

I'm just making an educated guess here, but having dealt with this 'style' of gaming I can tell you how it usually works. In the case of most episodic content, each episode can be purchased separately, or in a 'season pass'.

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This won't be like that. I'll have a Dev Diary explaining what's up with 'The Ballad of Bingo Boffin' as we get closer to its release. :)

MoL

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Originally Posted by Deorwyn

It's not that I *want* to go to another server, but as it appears, the server merges will be forcing people to do so if their home server is chosen to be closed. So why should your character have a stronger claim on the name, just because he/she was not forced to leave their home server?

I still think the older, more active and more high in level character should have the stronger claim on the name - but this should only apply to the "forced" transfers that will be upon us when the smaller servers are being closed, not regular transfers - those should retain their current rules.

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Perhaps because you have a choice of where to go and I have a history on the server that you will then come in and assume to those who see the name but don't know it's not me. Perhaps because your misfortune shouldn't punish me. I sympathize but I'm not about to take a bullet for you.

It's not going to make everybody happy and there's no good way to do it. But punishing twice as many people (you for having to move, me for staying on my home server but losing my name anyway?) just means twice as many lost customers.

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Originally Posted by danielbrown1969

I should clarify that I am only a VIP. JIC you perhaps thought I was playing favorites. As to my rationality regarding lifers having topmost priority ... it just stands to reason - they were the ones many years ago that were willing to COMMIT to the game when Turbine asked for it. Yes, they paid less - but they earned more loyalty by doing so. As a business owner with over 25 years experience, I often give my long-standing customers preferred treatment - even over the newer customers who currently spend more. New friends are great, but old ones are golden.

Perhaps Turbine doesn't agree. It was merely my opinion of what I felt to be fair business practice. In the end it matters not what I think or what you think - it matters only what Turbine does ><

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Giving priority to Lifer's doesn't stand in sound reason. Giving priority based on subscription status makes no sense. Many Lifer's exist on their TP stipend and haven't paid a penny since F2P launched.

A name already exist on a server you have chosen for a transfer,in this server consolidation. You will have to choose another name. That is as simple as it can get.

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Originally Posted by Beaniemooch

Perhaps because you have a choice of where to go and I have a history on the server that you will then come in and assume to those who see the name but don't know it's not me. Perhaps because your misfortune shouldn't punish me. I sympathize but I'm not about to take a bullet for you.

It's not going to make everybody happy and there's no good way to do it. But punishing twice as many people (you for having to move, me for staying on my home server but losing my name anyway?) just means twice as many lost customers.

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Exactly. This is not about individuals its about established communities. If your server is closed (mine is probably 50/50) why should several hundred people on your new destination have to relearn who "player_x" is on server y? This is not about a 1 v. 1 decision. Servers are communities. The most fair decision for the community is, the first player with an identity in that community keeps it for the sake of the community, period. This is especially compelling since it seems the most robust communities are going to remain whole. Forget level, forget account start date, forget VIP v. F2P, etc. If Brandy has had an identity in their midst known as Beaniemooch or Deorwyn, the entire community of Brandy should not be forced to re-learn who that is.

Is that fair for the individual? perhaps not. Is it fair for the community? Obviously so. If not, what am I missing?

When I transferred to Brandy, I found my name taken extensively for the purpose of keeping me from having it (Thanks Banesnack!). I've been Stickeez-1 ever since. Just something I had to get over.

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Originally Posted by Christian.S

Giving priority to Lifer's doesn't stand in sound reason. Giving priority based on subscription status makes no sense. Many Lifer's exist on their TP stipend and haven't paid a penny since F2P launched.

A name already exist on a server you have chosen for a transfer,in this server consolidation. You will have to choose another name. That is as simple as it can get.

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No, it gets even simpler for those of us who are used a particular name for 8 years here, and perhaps in other games. I don't have to choose another name. Instead, I choose another game.

The point about choosing the server doesn't fully apply when your guild has chosen a server, and it happens that your name was taken on that server. Choose between losing your name or losing your guild? Nice choice.

I also agree it's not fair for a player on a server to lose their name to a transferee. Which is why Turbine really needs something other than the current rename system.

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Originally Posted by Rhoewyn

Exactly. This is not about individuals its about established communities. If your server is closed (mine is probably 50/50) why should several hundred people on your new destination have to relearn who "player_x" is on server y? This is not about a 1 v. 1 decision. Servers are communities. The most fair decision for the community is, the first player with an identity in that community keeps it for the sake of the community, period. This is especially compelling since it seems the most robust communities are going to remain whole. Forget level, forget account start date, forget VIP v. F2P, etc. If Brandy has had an identity in their midst known as Beaniemooch or Deorwyn, the entire community of Brandy should not be forced to re-learn who that is.

Is that fair for the individual? perhaps not. Is it fair for the community? Obviously so. If not, what am I missing?

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Fair points from you and Beaniemooch, I can see where you are coming from with established server communities and character identities.
But I think there should be some effort put into looking how low a certain conflicting character has not been online.
The extreme case would be a level 5 toon that has completed only the intro instance and was last logged in four years ago. And this toon should keep its name but not my toon which I play everyday and have done so for eight years? I hope not!

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Originally Posted by Deorwyn

Fair points from you and Beaniemooch, I can see where you are coming from with established server communities and character identities.
But I think there should be some effort put into looking how low a certain conflicting character has not been online.
The extreme case would be a level 5 toon that has completed only the intro instance and was last logged in four years ago. And this toon should keep its name but not my toon which I play everyday and have done so for eight years? I hope not!

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The thing there is no such thing as a fair system and the question then becomes where do we draw the line? Is it okay that I have a level 20 that I log into occasionally on my server if you have a level 100 that you play every day coming into it? I may care as deeply for that character's name as you do, even if I play them less. I may have kept them at level 20 on purpose even. There's just no way to draw a line and say this is fair and this isn't.

I feel for those who end up having to move. When SWTOR did their merges I lost all my character names except one and it can be enough to make you just not want to play those characters any more. But at the end of the day, forcing those who have not been as active or who have not gotten to as high a level is no more fair. Especially since these aren't merges. Those who end up getting their servers closed have a choice on where to go. They have at least some options. Those who aren't losing their servers would have none to prevent someone who is level 100 with their name from coming in.

I personally don't believe Turbine will change its policy regarding names and transfers. In fact I think that's a big reason as to why they chose to do it this way instead of merging servers. I wish they were planning on doing an alternate naming scheme of some sort, but I don't think it will happen. Really I think an alternate naming scheme is the only truly fair way to do this.

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Originally Posted by Deorwyn

Fair points from you and Beaniemooch, I can see where you are coming from with established server communities and character identities.
But I think there should be some effort put into looking how low a certain conflicting character has not been online.
The extreme case would be a level 5 toon that has completed only the intro instance and was last logged in four years ago. And this toon should keep its name but not my toon which I play everyday and have done so for eight years? I hope not!

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Given that you will have the choice as to which server you will migrate to, this will be unlikely as if the character name is that important to you, you'll be scouting them all in advance looking for those servers where the name (or something close to it) is available and hence reserving it. If not, then it cannot be all that important.

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

Given that you will have the choice as to which server you will migrate to, this will be unlikely as if the character name is that important to you, you'll be scouting them all in advance looking for those servers where the name (or something close to it) is available and hence reserving it. If not, then it cannot be all that important.

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A touch too facile an argument.

First, in many cases where a kin is migrating to a particular server, the individual player has the option of losing their kin or losing their name. Not a good choice.

Second, I did the reserve thing 8 years ago first thing, and repeated it as servers opened up. Even so, "Scirocco" ended up being taken on several servers even as quickly as I did log in and try to create new characters with my name on each. For people attempting to do so now, I can only imagine the difficulty.

If my server closes, I will wait to see if/where my kinship moves (it's not guaranteed that it will migrate). Assuming there's no change in naming policy, if it's a server where I have reserved the name, I'll move servers. If not, I'll leave my character on Elendilmir and look for another game. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Trobon

The thing there is no such thing as a fair system and the question then becomes where do we draw the line? Is it okay that I have a level 20 that I log into occasionally on my server if you have a level 100 that you play every day coming into it? I may care as deeply for that character's name as you do, even if I play them less. I may have kept them at level 20 on purpose even. There's just no way to draw a line and say this is fair and this isn't.

I feel for those who end up having to move. When SWTOR did their merges I lost all my character names except one and it can be enough to make you just not want to play those characters any more. But at the end of the day, forcing those who have not been as active or who have not gotten to as high a level is no more fair. Especially since these aren't merges. Those who end up getting their servers closed have a choice on where to go. They have at least some options. Those who aren't losing their servers would have none to prevent someone who is level 100 with their name from coming in.

I personally don't believe Turbine will change its policy regarding names and transfers. In fact I think that's a big reason as to why they chose to do it this way instead of merging servers. I wish they were planning on doing an alternate naming scheme of some sort, but I don't think it will happen. Really I think an alternate naming scheme is the only truly fair way to do this.

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The simplest, fairest way to address the problem is to simply allow spaces in character names, with the addition of some simple rules. There's no need to extend the max number of characters in the name field (which I believe is currently set at 20).

1. No more than 2 spaces in a name.

2. No adjacent spaces.

3. Spaces cannot be the first or last character in the name.

4. Any character string between two spaces is limited to a prescribed list (e.g., "the", "of", and perhaps a few others along the same lines).

5. Any contiguous character string (i.e., not including spaces), must generally comply with some of the basic grammar rules (in terms of number of consecutive consonants, etc.)


If I migrate to a server already with a Scirocco on it, my name gets set to Scirocco+1 (as now), and I get a rename scroll. Scirocco (the pre-existing character) also gets a rename scroll (but is not obligated to use it...he or she can keep the base name if they want, but they have the option of adding a surname or descriptor, if they want).

I then can rename myself to:

Scirocco Redbeard
Scirocco the Red
Red Scirocco
Scirocco of Breehill

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Originally Posted by Scirocco

Scirocco Redbeard
Scirocco the Red
Red Scirocco
Scirocco of Breehill

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Or Scirocco, friend of Kamille

Let's face it, there is no perfect solution to the renaming crisis ahead of us. But to wish upon a star that Turbine will act in your best interest - defying all logic - just isn't going to end well for you. If Turbine was going to "keep their same renaming policy and use it in regards to the upcoming server mergers", then don't you think that they would have already said so? The fact that they haven't said anything specific about it would lead one to believe that a change is in the air. Maybe they aren't even sure yet what they are going to do (although I speculate the decision has already been made) ... but the fact that they haven't stated their intent almost certainly means they will not retain their current policy as it pertains to this server merger coming soon.

It sucks when there is a scenario of a person who has 7 years playing time gets bumped by a person with 8 years playing time. But in the "there can be only one" scenario, the 8 year person should get to keep their name. I certainly don't envy the customer support Turbine employees who are going to be fielding all the complaints in the days, weeks and months following when all this happens. I know for myself, I have already decided to leave /World for at least the first week afterwards (if not more).

My condolences to those that will be forced to lose their name. Consider it a rebirth of your character?

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Originally Posted by danielbrown1969

Let's face it, there is no perfect solution to the renaming crisis ahead of us. But to wish upon a star that Turbine will act in your best interest - defying all logic - just isn't going to end well for you. If Turbine was going to "keep their same renaming policy and use it in regards to the upcoming server mergers", then don't you think that they would have already said so? The fact that they haven't said anything specific about it would lead one to believe that a change is in the air. Maybe they aren't even sure yet what they are going to do (although I speculate the decision has already been made) ... but the fact that they haven't stated their intent almost certainly means they will not retain their current policy as it pertains to this server merger coming soon.

It sucks when there is a scenario of a person who has 7 years playing time gets bumped by a person with 8 years playing time. But in the "there can be only one" scenario, the 8 year person should get to keep their name. I certainly don't envy the customer support Turbine employees who are going to be fielding all the complaints in the days, weeks and months following when all this happens. I know for myself, I have already decided to leave /World for at least the first week afterwards (if not more).

My condolences to those that will be forced to lose their name. Consider it a rebirth of your character?

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No. This is chaos. You have an 8 year player bump a 7 year player on day one of open transfer. Now 7 year player moves to a different server and bumps 6 year player, and so on. We all hope there is a way for everyone to keep some form of their name but if not, it has to be server tenure. After all if you're server is closing you at least have the option to scout around. If yours closes and mine doesn't I should wake up tomorrow and with no warning MY name has been taken? Far more unfair than someone having the opportunity to scout and plan in the event name is taken, consider alternate spellings etc. If I am Rhoewyn and you bump me and take Rhoewyn, if I change to Rhoewynn or Rheowyn, you don't see the problem for the other x number of inhabitants of the server?

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Originally Posted by Rhoewyn

No. This is chaos. You have an 8 year player bump a 7 year player on day one of open transfer. Now 7 year player moves to a different server and bumps 6 year player, and so on. We all hope there is a way for everyone to keep some form of their name but if not, it has to be server tenure. After all if you're server is closing you at least have the option to scout around. If yours closes and mine doesn't I should wake up tomorrow and with no warning MY name has been taken? Far more unfair than someone having the opportunity to scout and plan in the event name is taken, consider alternate spellings etc. If I am Rhoewyn and you bump me and take Rhoewyn, if I change to Rhoewynn or Rheowyn, you don't see the problem for the other x number of inhabitants of the server?

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All of you that say players should advance scout are forgetting that it might not be their choice of which server their Kinship is moving to.

Also, If an 8 year player bumps a 7 year player as you suggest, the 7 year player is obviously not on a server being closed .. so they won't be jumping servers to bump a 6 year player.

But again, it matters not what I think will happen or what you think will happen. All that matters is what Turbine does. I do concur that it would be nice to know this ahead of time. I feel very sorry for the narcissistic thinking as it is unrealistic and those players will be caught unawares by the results.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Or Scirocco, friend of Kamille

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Just a few too many characters there... :)

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Originally Posted by Scirocco

Just a few too many characters there... :)

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Oh the irony.....

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Originally Posted by Sezneg

I've been Stickeez-1 ever since. Just something I had to get over.

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Usually when you get a forced rename you can ask a GM for a rename token but only one time. It's probably way too late though in your case.

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Originally Posted by Trobon

The thing there is no such thing as a fair system and the question then becomes where do we draw the line?

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I don't think there is ever a way to set it up for everybody to be satisfied; it's the nature of the beast. I think in the past when Turbine merged game servers the character that was transferred loses their name and/or has a suffix added. There may have been some consideration for names tied to characters which have not completed the tutorial area but I don't remember for sure.

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Originally Posted by Scirocco

1. No more than 2 spaces in a name.
2. No adjacent spaces.
3. Spaces cannot be the first or last character in the name.
4. Any character string between two spaces is limited to a prescribed list (e.g., "the", "of", and perhaps a few others along the same lines).
5. Any contiguous character string (i.e., not including spaces), must generally comply with some of the basic grammar rules (in terms of number of consecutive consonants, etc.)

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That's not bad. It has bothered me that I cannot name one of my characters '[name] the Grey', without having to compromise the readability.

When you say "New Store", do you mean the LotRO Market or the in-game Store?

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Originally Posted by Scirocco

The simplest, fairest way to address the problem is to simply allow spaces in character names, with the addition of some simple rules. There's no need to extend the max number of characters in the name field (which I believe is currently set at 20).

1. No more than 2 spaces in a name.

2. No adjacent spaces.

3. Spaces cannot be the first or last character in the name.

4. Any character string between two spaces is limited to a prescribed list (e.g., "the", "of", and perhaps a few others along the same lines).

5. Any contiguous character string (i.e., not including spaces), must generally comply with some of the basic grammar rules (in terms of number of consecutive consonants, etc.)


If I migrate to a server already with a Scirocco on it, my name gets set to Scirocco+1 (as now), and I get a rename scroll. Scirocco (the pre-existing character) also gets a rename scroll (but is not obligated to use it...he or she can keep the base name if they want, but they have the option of adding a surname or descriptor, if they want).

I then can rename myself to:

Scirocco Redbeard
Scirocco the Red
Red Scirocco
Scirocco of Breehill

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Absolutely an idea I would get behind. As I said, I think Turbine should change the naming policy in some way at the same time and give every single character a rename scroll. Just do a full reset like Wildstar did when they merged (in their case they made it so everyone needed a first and last name after the merge).

Naming policy changes include:
*Allowing spaces
*Doing name@account (I hated this idea at first, but honestly in Star Trek Online it doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would).
*Forcing name/surname

I would prefer a less restrictive one like allowing spaces, but I think a naming change policy is the best course of action.

That being said, as I mentioned before, I think they are doing it this way instead of real merges in order to avoid this issue entirely. I don't agree with that choice if they are, but I think that's what's happening.

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Originally Posted by superboxer2

How about you making the current t2s doable. Not even playing lotro till they make it so I do t have to spend 7hr I a 3man t2 and not be able to Complete it

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They must have made them better because I soloed a t2 instance the other day...took a bit, but did it

@Frelorn.

Hi, when the changes happen will we get to keep the amount of character slots we own if in the event of a server transfer? I ask because I feel it would be unfair to lose characters due to a limitation on available character slots.