Dev Diary Feedback: The Ettenmoors

OMG get a clue!

Moors audacity amour set is the new radiance gear.

A 10% discount to upgrade and the creeps get passives they dont have to upgrade plus its 1125 coms!!! I call BS!!!!!! Change the freep Audacity to a passive just like the creeps. I cant regrear 4 freeps every expansion!

We're all waiting for a new Moors map. We were told one was comming with Isen and it never did. Tired of the revamps to the old map. You could have done a whole map in the brown lands where the creeps are defending the norther boarder of Mordor. COME on Turbine, NEW MAP! Where did all that money spent creepside go? to get the freeps mounted pony combat!!

How about some instanced PVP 12v12, 6v6, 3v3.

Done with the moors. No wonder so many creep and freeps look for PvP in new games coming out.

Lots of changes, so hard to give an opinion before we can play.

What I want to point is the case of hunter, it seems that class is gonna lose once again (after Isen release that x2 creeps morale and audacity update that cut dps by 30%).

Dev should realize there is a real problem with hunter playability and entertainment in moor, cut our dps but give us a few skill to have a chance surviving a fight for more than 5 sec ...

They used my idea! Or whomever had it first for turning creeps advanced skills into enhanced skills.


One thing that I didn't see changing (unless I didn't see it) and, do see repeating, is the balancing while maintaining populations issue. For me at least, making a freep to pvp with is work so I don't play freep in the moors. An auto lvl option that advances with rank for freeps would be nice imo.

Turbine, however, has driven me away with their lootbox distribution system for sigil skins. As a r12 warg that has played for 5 years every time I see someone with a sigil skin I get jealous and usually start farming npcs until I get bored, realizing I am not having fun and log out. On a luck based system like this I have just a good a chance of never getting one than I do of getting one.

More On Topic: I'd say the new reward system for capturing and holding keeps and dof and such will encourage more pve than pvp. It looks good on a large server and very bad on a small server. I can see it now, I log in on my creep to a red map, creeps have a +40% mastery buff and a +200% comms gain buff while freeps have -1 audacity. Once freeps start getting max lvl and whatever gear they need the map flips blue and all the creeps switch to their freeps until theres no more creeps left to farm. And back and forth it goes... or at least how I am picturing it.

Without being to cynical I do like the looks of the attention pvmp is getting and hope that whatever happens is fun to play.


http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7093/sigfireeye.jpg

A big problem I see with the current info we have is there will be almost nothing at all to do when no freeps or creeps are on to kill. With removing quests, taking the rewards out of some quests, and greatly reducing the rewards for all quests it will leave nothing to do when people are not on. Will be most miserable for creep only players where this is there only content to play. I hope there are some smaller stuff still to be announced other wise going to be some very boring times ahead.

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Originally Posted by Azshakh

Positively surprised by the proposed changes - will give a final judgement when I see it live. At least it's a reason to continue playing.

One thing: please reintroduce a 2-hour lockout again: switchers will abuse the infamy/renown gains by switching to the winning side, making it harder for the loosing side to pull things straight. Make your players choose a side for the day!

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That's a great idea, could be countered with a second account which would be a win win for turbine.

Val

I'm done with my freep toons based on this update. I can't keep grinding new audacity gear for multiple toons every freaking update. Please consider rather than a 10% discount, just restoring 10% of the comms I spent buying all this soon-to-be useless &&&& in the first place so I can spend those comms on my creep toons where they will NEVER become obsolete again. Thanks.

The outpost and keep changes should support more mobile and small group based skirmishes and encourage the breaking up of raid groups. It may also act as something of a balancing factor too, creeps are weaker man on man but they tend to have greater numbers which may make it easier for them to control the outposts. The side with the better communication and leadership will have the edge as it should be. These seem like some very positive changes but with the damage and infamy bonuses people may switch sides depending on which faction owns the most territory, I suspect people will need an incentive to play on weaker side.

I still have reservations about commendations and audacity, though I am pleased the cost of skills has been reduced. I would like to see creeps have something useful they can purchase with gold. I would like to propose that delving bosses drop sigils, if bosses need to be buffed so be it, I hate lootboxes immensely.

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Originally Posted by jwbarry

As part of these changes Distraction has been disabled in the Moors.

If you're interested in testing out and seeing the changes in action and you are in beta, everything in this diary is live on Bullroarer.

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If you really want to test these changes you need to get some serious creep players in Beta and copy over their characters. Don't rely on a bunch of auto-ranked to 15 toons if you really want realistic data.

P.S.: Get rid of trolls and rangers. Trolls are a joke and rangers are griefing tools.

Great to see Warleaders finally getting a shield bash skill that can stun their opponent. Awesome =)

The set bonus that removes pip req. for remorseless strike seems extremely op.

Nice to see outposts and delving give bonuses but the actual bonuses presented atm are way over the top , imo.

The reduction in comms cost for skills , etc on Creepside is a huge plus. Ty.

A few questions-

1) Have the devs crunched the numbers for commendation costs versus what is required to buy the skills and traits at each rank? By the time a creep hits Rank 1, will they have been able to buy all of the skills and traits for Rank 0? By the time they hit Rank 2, have they earned enough to have bought all of their Rank 1 skills and traits? And has Audacity purchases been figured in? Or does a creep buying the skills and traits they qualify for the first few ranks have to forgo Audacity?

2) When the new "season" starts will all our audacity reset to 1, or will it remain the same and just be less effective?

3) In working on the landscape, will the devs fix all of the areas freeps can get to on horses that creeps can't reach, such as the bridge pillars?

4) Will the devs address the disparity in conjunctions between freeps and creeps. Freeps can throw an easy flush, especially green, while creep CJs are innately more complicated thus harder to execute in the chaos of PvP. This makes creep pets a free heal for freeps without the corresponding effect on creepside. Or at least make pets on both sides immune to CJs like players.

Did they reduce cost of skins? I didnt notice i only scanned through.

-Wadric/Devestated

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Originally Posted by Reapor

Also on Warg, could there be some way to stop wargs stance changing, 1 stance is supposed to be a stealthed stance, the other a tanking stance, but at the moment they hit from the stealth stance and 10 secs later they are in tank stance (getting the best of both worlds), maybe no stance change once in-combat, so they have to choose before they start, or a 30sec cd on stance changing.

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I'm not sure where to start.. let me put it like this; warg "stance dancing" is as annoying as burglar "stance dancing"
No offence.

needs to up the tactical migration for creeps
so MANY TACTICAL classes in the moors

especially the rk, 1k + 1k + 2k + 3-6k EC = dead creep
doesnt matter if you have 15k health

come ROR, with, level 85 leg weapons and new moors leg weapons, rk can literally 1 SHOT creeps

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Originally Posted by StileMajere

Reinstate time limit lockout

Turbine, you need to reinstate the lock out that prevented players from flipping from freep to creep and vice versa.

I would also like it to go both directions... ie:

If your on your Creep, you can not bring any Freep to the moors for X amount of time.
If you are on your Freep (In the moors), you can not log into any creep for X amount of time.
30 minutes to 1 hour would work.

The changes you have proposed all look interesting. However, you need to address the problem of players flipping back and forth to either spy, fightclub, or take the map back.

This mechanic used to be in effect, you should be able to put it back in place fairly easy. Please do so.

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I support this

Sorry about the infamy comment. I've just re-read and see that the infamy gain can get to +60% with keeps and DoF under control. Roll on update!! :)

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Originally Posted by Louvre

You have to understand that this is ALL we get .

Freeps in the other hand , will have dev diary after dev diary , updates here , patches there ...

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How long have you played a hunter for? Your situation is exactly ours. Creeps are underpowered compared to minnies, wardens, and well-played other classes, but hunters below about R6-7 are free infamy if they don't get the first shot in. And have been for at least a year.

I realy like this comming update to the moors! Yay!!!

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Originally Posted by n3xxus

OMG get a clue!

Moors audacity amour set is the new radiance gear.

A 10% discount to upgrade and the creeps get passives they dont have to upgrade plus its 1125 coms!!! I call BS!!!!!! Change the freep Audacity to a passive just like the creeps. I cant regrear 4 freeps every expansion!

We're all waiting for a new Moors map. We were told one was comming with Isen and it never did. Tired of the revamps to the old map. You could have done a whole map in the brown lands where the creeps are defending the norther boarder of Mordor. COME on Turbine, NEW MAP! Where did all that money spent creepside go? to get the freeps mounted pony combat!!

How about some instanced PVP 12v12, 6v6, 3v3.

Done with the moors. No wonder so many creep and freeps look for PvP in new games coming out.

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First of all, freeps will "just" have to purchase 6 new sets for commendations, wich they get 10% off if they already have a set, creeps will have to pay the same amount comm for the >7 Audacity but 2-7 will cost less.
Also keep in mind that creeps has to use their commendations for skills, traits and appearance.

Don't go out and grind commendations, go out and enjoy yourself and earn commendations and as a bonus you will get better.
Audacity is no new Radiance gear since you don't need it to participate or even be a valueble asset to your side. I was going from audacity 1-7 in four casual PvPing weeks, most with my defiler but I spend my points on my LM... But I did good.

Um, about regear every new expansion...? What will you do if every new expansion gives you no new content to work for? I guess some people just wan't to be the best from the start.

I am freep at heart but freeps will still have a pushover with getting "EM-full-battle-ready" than what creeps will have.

It looks like a long overdue comparatively major adjustment. The moors have been neglected so badly, for what is supposed to be the end game run . A reincarnation? Maybe in a beauty parlor. In construction this would be another owner-builder minor change order, a slight remodel. I don't see huge dynamical play style changes here, but a great step towards something.
It's not enough out of the sandbox for me but at least turbine has made a move. I like it all except for the entire audacity concept, and wonder why some of the interactivity was removed between for ownership, reinforcements etc. That part seemed to make things less dynamic. Put a front door on the keeps, make the boiling oil more than spf 15 and then you are starting to change dynamics. Siege weapons anyone? Instanced strategic map play?
Let this not be a facelift but the beginning to some real out of the box changes.
Good luck, ye Turbiners, I really hope you can not copycat existing styles but push the end game into new territory with major dynamic improvement. Give us something to really slobber over. :)
We are all playing the best mmorpg out there, LOTRO. Keep us here.

Aloha

My apologies if I missed it but I didn't see significant changes to address the problem of the uber-healing freeps. I routinely see freep raid/zergs of 10+ healing types (Minis, RKs and Captains) that can't be touched unless overwhelmed by creeps + tyrant + NPCs. If a well-played raid can take on 10 Sarumans, then the modest increases to creep damage should be easy to shrug off even with these new buffs.

Why not a creep skill (to keep it Moors only) that blocks incoming healing? It would be in line with Tolkien lore where wounds from Morgul blades/darts could not be cured except by the King or Elven healers. Add some flowery prose about how Sauron has recognized your battlefield actions and given you powerful, fell Morgul weapons that relentlessly tears away at the enemy's heart blab blab blab....
Somethings to consider:

• A purchasable skill or promotion that increases in potency with rank.
• Amount of the debuff.
• If it can stack and to how much.
• Duration of debuff.

I'm disappointed that Defilers didn't get much in this update. Why do defilers in PvE get totems but not in the Moors? There are PvE defilers that have some really annoying totems that I'd like to see in the hands of creeps (slows, power drains, increased inductions, etc) to keep defilers alive just a little longer while freeps charge through to take out the creep healers.

Nice to see some changes coming though.

I''m not in the slightest bit interested in participating in PvMP myself, but I'm glad that those who enjoy PvMP have finally got some changes that they're excited about. One of the things I like about LOTRO is that there's something for everybody.

kudos to the devs for recognizing the situation and making a legit effort to remedy the situation. The opening page was welcome backstory, since playing in the moors makes you wonder what are the devs thinking, now we know. I am highly optimistic about these changes but urge the devs to consider the issue below before RoR.


Zerging

Even fights are a bushel of fun, but they are the exception not the rule in the moors. I don't believe this issue is addressed in the re-design, its hard to tell with so much change. Here is how I would approach it.

1. Controlling points yields a passive renown/infamy "hot" for 10 minutes, with keeps > outposts > avg renown/infamy gain of soloing.
2. While in control of a point a stackable 10% renown/infamy gain for kills (does not effect hot above) is applied every 2 minutes, the opposite side gets a stacking 10% tactical/physical master buff on the same intervals at said control point.
3. Flipping a control point from opposition control to your control yields a renown/infamy hot.


If the sides are balanced then solving zerging means getting groups of similar size fighting one another. With the incentives in #1 raid sized groups will be in keeps, fellow sized groups at outposts , and small groups solos roaming the countryside. We have different sized groups separated but now we need to incentivize them to be at the same control point. This is where #2 comes in. If the opponent controls a point, you will on average make more renown/infamy by attacking the opposition controlled point then flipping a neutral point, since you will have the damage buff at the oppositions points and potential for the flip hot. The nature of these buffs will make it nearly impossible to hold a point against a prolonged attack, but it does incentivize the point controllers to try and hold the point as long as possible when under attack.

Cheers,

uta/inandout

About timer. I know there are switchers, but there are also ppl that switching to side, that is lower in numbers to help them (like me, for example, this really happening!). From that point of view switching is not so bad. Anyway, I would welcome timer, but timer that only applies when side from you want to switch have population buff (or link it to amount of creeps/freeps in some other way) I think that would be more "elegant" way of solving switchers problem.

I forgot to mention the lack of flipper restriction as well. That in itself would be more dynamic than most of the changes.
We are left with zergs, flippers and greater disparity in audacity, some old problems and new ones.
We are all going to taste it for reincarnation flavor. Skeptical me thinks I gonna taste blush and lipstick for the ROR increases in freep damage.
Prove me wrong, Turbine. Please.

One of my concerns with these changes is how small group and solo action will be affected. Most of these changes are addressing RvR improvements and how to maximize the potential when playing in a raid setting.

What do these changes mean for those who prefer not to group, or prefer to run in small groups?



Also, one thing I really would like to be considered is putting a cap on the warden spear lords 5 set bonus. Being a warden I find it no fun that I can just cancel out my enemies heals altogether.

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Age: 2nd Age

Weapon Types: Sword, Dagger, 2-Hand Sword, Bow, Staff, Mace, Orb, Spear

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NO axes?, my dwarf champ needs an great axe !

Nice changes overall, i like what's done with creeps skills, just not for cooldown reduction on wargs disappear/sprint skill.

Best things are the increased commendation gain from pvp kills, though I don't like to have to grind a lot lot lot to get on par with others audacity ranks. I still haven't got rank 7 audacity on any of my toons yet and i like to play them all.

Good thing there is no direct commendation rewards for flipping keeps and outposts and i like the buff we get for killing dof bosses.
My concern is though, when one side got the upper hand by numbers, they will easily cap the outposts and relics to also get the bigger buffs, we'll see how it turns out. The ~10% boost per outpost seems like a lot to me.
edit: After reading some more, I guess trolls or rangers might counter the imbalance, I do hope we can gain some commendations for killing stuff in session play to make it worth it :d

Can't wait to see this in effect in ettenmoors, hope we'll get to see more activity again on Evernight.