Please Cordovan remember to fix the champion skills CD latency when using dual wielding. The class feels broken and is indeed broken the skills doesnt work as intended.
Please Cordovan remember to fix the champion skills CD latency when using dual wielding. The class feels broken and is indeed broken the skills doesnt work as intended.
Not if you /bug report them. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Celebrawn
Would love to see them in game or something similar. Great work!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallandil
Loot Boxes:
Really like the thoughts on limiting item levels.
Locks/ Favoured Chest openings:
Sounds good. Sounds really good.
All together, this could really work out. But I agree with others: take your time, to make it right.
That was what I was first planning as I encounterted them and started bug reporting. However I quickly realized it's all over the place. Often huge areas of rock suurface. If anyone would try and bug report them all it would flood SSG with those bug reports for each coordinate. Even some not the same rock but like a few meters beside the other. I mean litterally all over the place if You explore a bit from the path. Not even that far from the path but like in many places in Járnfast, around that huge Dwarf statue all around it up and down the hillside. Almost everywhere You try stand on a rock formation. Only places it's less visible is where there is bombarded with frills, as they hide Your feets flotating at least. Still it looks weird even in some those places. In some plces with frills it seems like some dev have manually fixed it so that the frills are on the surface so in those places it's all good but the rest seem to be automaticallt generated collision perimeters and they do not fit the surface.Quote:
Originally Posted by gildhurNot if you /bug report them. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Celebrawn
In the places where You walk inside the rock and only half Your body is above, it was kind of comical seeing half my Dwarf as he did not look amused with his grumpy face, he he he !!! :)
Instance Locks:
The Problem that i have with the idea that people shouldn't get it all too fast, is that it is obviously preventing people from playing the way they want to play it.
Everyone knows that, but giving it locks does not solve the problem, but rather hide it while creating a new one as we all saw.
In my opinion if these Instances are so mundane and easy to the point of 15 min farm runs like in the case of seregost, then they just are not hard enough, which makes Tier 3 an opportunity in my opinion.
Make it hard enough that even the best groups can not just walk over it without concentration and suddenly there are no locks, as well as a challenge.
Keys/Boxes:
In his last Cord of the Rings, Cordovan mentioned that the reason for the new Ash currency is so that you can't just farm the ash and have it be there for the new update.
But that problem is not solved by creating another lootbox, in fact it makes it very confusing and does not actually help.
The Problem with hoarding Ash does not lie withing the old boxes or the ash stacked to 10.000, but rather the black steel keys...and since those will still open the new boxes, a lot of peopel will basically have enough ash unless these boxes are at a premium. and this will only continue since you get black steel keys from daylies. Chests are very cheap and the cap can be bygone just by not using the stuff yet.
You would have to create a new key for each level update and you can just imagine where that would go.
Light of Earendil:
Cord mentioned that Light would stack up to 100 for the raid on higher levels due to the newer equipment not having light.
The idea that people should be incenteviced to get the old equipment is flawed and people will probably just rather not run the instance unless they happen to have the light for whatever reason.
The Light was a bad idea from the beginning due to the disconnect to prior and now also newer areas.
Also unnecessary, since Dread is already in the game, and simple grindeable items for example tokens for light could have just provided with the wanted effect. (or craftable etc.)
Also: How does one create the Forochel fog bug? Like it and would like to replicate it
This bug might be related to the Champion dual wield bug as well with delays on skills going off.
It's basically the same for race of men hunters as well. Comparing my elven hunter to my sons man hunter, sitting side by side, it is very obvious. Some of his skills takes so long to even start their visible inductions that his instant skills often resets (if have cd) or get enough focus to use them again before other skills even start, so he switches to them, as waiting for the others takes too long. It is definetly bad. In some cases when he need to use blindside to interupt a mobs induction he can't get it to go off in time. While I have no such problems. We both basically use the same builds in blue (might differ in amount of trait points but not alot). Only real difference is our choice of race. Men vs Elf. Men seems to be the bugged one in this. Nothing we have noticed in the past. It became noticeable after the "balance" patches or around that time anyway, so maybe some code was broken or some codes affect each other in some unforeseen ways ??? Not sure what causes it, but it is a real problem.
Another example a dwarf Champions, some skill animations are so slow, even more then currently on Hunter, or other classes who got different animations , dependent on the race.
Its so drastic that i was kind of forced to make a high elf champ, what resulted in a 10-15% dmg boost.
Credit where credit is due. This is a step in the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
@Cordovan
Any further news on Empowered Mithrin Essences (and beyond) being crafted (rather than ash only)?
A year later? I think the time has come and gone for that. I'm sure I'm not the only one still falling through rocks in Mordor, so I'm sure most of it has been reported already at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by gildhur
Some questions came up after watching the Youtube Video:
Cordovan mentioned, that you can get gear through running the instances and this is the favoured option for gearing.
Does that also mean, that I have to finish an instance on T2/ T3 in order to be able to barter for T2/T3 gear? Or is it again just farming/ grinding for ashes/ embers and then take them to the vendor for the good stuff?
And: will there be different parts of gear from different instances, so people have to run all of them?
@ Decoutan: You can create the Forochel Bug by going through the rift between Kauppa Kohta and Pynti-Peldot. The area around you will turn foggy and you will keep that effect wherever you go, until you relog. You can also go to Edhelion. Same effect there.
I do not know how the team will approach the entire thing, but hopefully it will not be just removing crit from burglar or hunter agility...in the end there are so many things that some classes get while others do not like for example hunter getting tactical mitigation from vitality while the burglar does not.
it Would probably be a good thing to have it be the same at least for all the same weight (light/medium/heavy) or main stat users (might/agility/will)
otherwise we once again have situations in which it is hard to calculate which class has got the upper hand on what and why.
If you make it all the same and then realize that a certain class is too strong/weak, than chances are that class probably was that from the beginning but the main stats should not be the go to to address that;
but rather the problematic skills or whatever it is that is actually the root of it all.
What are the so many things? Crit on Agility is the only stat i know of, that has such a drastic impact on Stat imbalance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoutan
The Burglar gets extra Moral from vitality (to compensate for tactical mit on the ranged classes from vita), with the release of Mordor SSG Changed it that all Mele classes get extra Moral and Ranged Classes get tactical mit from Vitality.
Agility classes had a very long time a huge advantage over others, when it comes the reaching Damage Caps, without any trade off. Might classes ask since Mordor for a balance of Stats, because they where in a huge disadvantage, but it never came. The Hunters/Burglars in my Kin reached all Damage caps with pre Raidgear and with my champ i needed the full Raidgear to get on the same spot, when it comes to critt/mastery. So itotally don't agree with you, in my opinion Stats need to be balance first and then the class. If you balance the other way around, the whole balance will be thrown off, at the point where people reach their caps. I mean hunter/burg where forced to slot older gear like Bigbattle jewelry, or otherwise every improvement in the gear would have resulted in no damage gain.
But it doesn't? Assume a hunter, burglar or warden has 20,000 Agility, that means they have 20,000 crit gained from agility. Right now, the crit cap is 152,000 for Crit and 166,000 for devastating crits, that means that the 20,000 crit contribution from Agility awards roughly 3.28% crit (25/152,000 x 20,000. This method isn't exactly accurate but its close enough to the real curve). Will the gap between champions and hunters/burglars be bridged by taking away 3.3% crit from hunters/burglars? No, absolutely not. It is also important to note that Champions do not rely on crits the same way Hunters and Burglars do. Hunters need to crit to lower the CD's for Upshot and Heart Seeker, and Burglar's need to crit just to be able to use their Crit Chain abilities. Flat nerfing stats because 1 set of classes thinks its unfair is a good way to create other problems. Anybody who's played League of Legends or DOTA knows how 1 tiny change to a hero's stats, an item's stats, stat scaling, etc. without considering every other class and their class-specific functions can result in massive meta changes and potentially broken hero's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertes
Also, at 120, it is impossible for ANY class, including hunters and burglars, to reach crit cap while simultaneously capping mastery. A properly geared hunter or burglar will only have ~85,000 crit.
It is a much better idea imo to reduce the amount of crit needed to reach cap, leave agility as it is, buff Might and Will, and then address class specific issues. Also know that champions do not have to slot Big Battles sets like Hunters and Burglars do. That's a lot of stats lost by not having level 120 jewelry.
3,3% is around 13,2% of the crittcap, that would be equal to 26,4% Mele/Ranged/Tactical Damage for free from you mainstat. 3,3% does not sound much, but we are not in Guidlwars where you can reach 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
When the champion does not rely on critts, i dont know which class does, due to the super high critt multi, its a day and night difference between noncritt or critt. Take away 10% critt from a Hunter and 10% from a champ and you will see that the damage fall of from the champ is much significant higher. And i still dont know how 6 Essence slots worth of critt are tolerated when the might classes have nothing similar.
And don´t ask me why, but hunters got a insance crittrate compared to the champion, due to pen shot and focusbuff, imo Champs need a much higher critical chance then currently or more base damage and lesser critmulti.
But i would agree with you, that you could also buff might/will, i just dont know how, i feel like adding more mastery on it would not change much, beacuse currently reaching near masterycap seems easy.
Are you sure you're using the optimal gear? The best gear at 120 right now is the scaled Pelennor gear (4 essence slots each), and the Tavern NPC can give you the 4 Essence Slot Nadhin armor which is roughly comparable to Pelennor. If you use that set you have many more essence slots to take advantage of. A champion who has all 6 Nadhin armors should be capping Mastery first and then pumping the rest into Crit, which should put you at around 70-80k. Champions do not wear Big Battles jewelry like Hunters and Burglars do, so having 3 more level 120 jewelries than hunters/burgs do makes up for a good portion of the crit gap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertes
That's true for every class not just champions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertes
But that's not true? Crit reliance is built into the hunter class at the fundamental level. You need to crit to lower the cooldowns of Heart Seeker and Upshot which are your #1 and #2 highest damage dealers in both burst and sustained situations. Champions have no such mechanics as Raging/Fury/Blade Wall/Ferocious/etc. do not have cooldown resets. You also shouldn't compare single-target DPS classes with AoE classes on single-target dummies. The damage ladder for single-target DPS looks like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertes
Red Hunter
Red Burglar
Red Warden
Hybrid red/yellow Champion
While the damage ladder for AoE looks like this:
Red Warden
Yellow Champ
(massive dps gap)
Red RK
Red Hunter
Champs are competitive in environments where they are designed to be, the same for hunters and burglars.
This was true as far back as level 100. Champions needed 8 to reach cap, I believe. The same was true at 105.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertes
Well increasing the mastery ratio on Might from 1:2 to 1:3.5 would mean you'd have an extra ~22,500 mastery (assuming 15k Might with Nadhin armor), which is roughly 4 essence slots which can now be used for an extra 16k crit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertes
ALSO keep in mind that most group setups have a red captain, and I haven't checked what the current Relentless Assault buff is at 120, but on live its 6k Mastery + 10k crit, so at a minimum you can add another 10k crit to your total in a group setting. With Relentless Assault + 4 extra Crit essences, you've gained at minimum 26,000 extra crit.
I think nearly no one is planing to run around with pelenor slot armor, so imo you can´t argue with this as a standard.
Ofc every class hits higher with their critts, but on the champion the gap is way bigger then on every other class. Try it your self, Hunter with caped Critt/Mastery vs. Champion with also both caped and then remove around 10% you will see that the champion loose much more %dps.
And please don´t forget this are just damage numbers on dummys, in reality hunters get extremely good support from rk´s/other hunters/lm.
Imo Mele DD´s should deal a higher amount of damage then Ranged DD´s if standing still (let it be 5-10%), due to such a high number of anti mele mechanics in most content, its sometimes hard to deal damage to your target 100% of the time, where ranged dd´s can often stand on save distance.
(red text is my own)Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
Not to derail the dialogue here, but shouldn't Lore Master be included in the AoE category, XbammyX? — I mean, lightning storm, nature's fury, cracked earth, and gourd etc... those must count for something, right? ;)
This is mostly an aside, but I'm a little confused as to how, an experienced hunter such as yourself, thinks Red line has a spot on the "AoE" ladder? I know it's the new trendy line to use, since the damage boost, but I am curious why you'd even include it as AoE? Is this based solely off of including Rain of Arrows (or Split Shot) into a rotation? Even though Yellow still has Triple Trap, Explosive Arrow etc, that more-or-less function as AoE?
I heard the reset rate of RoA was broken a couple months back, but never looked into if it had been fixed. Normally my initial thought would be Yellow hunter fits as AoE branch but obviously, it's sorely lacking for gameplay updates.
So I guess my big question is, would you (XbammyX or another hunter who wants to reply) say most hunters agree on Red as the preferred branch, regardless of AoE or ST? Or is it more of just ST, with AoE as an afterthought like before? I haven't played my hunter in a while, so this is just trying to get a sense of how it is these days... :)
*****
Also just to chime in, I'd say finding a way to increase crit rate would be fine for might based classes, but I think they would have to keep the tactical mastery component of might and adjust fate or another stat accordingly to contribute more crit, otherwise Captains and Beornings would be, well, hopeless and "heal"-less! :p
Also worth noting is that Hunters are the only agility class that doesn't get the tactical mastery part of agility — Burglars have it, and so do Wardens. Burglars used to have viable heals in yellow line back at 100 cap (that's the trait tree I mained), although that's not so much the case anymore. Critical heals wouldn't be worth much of a focus for us anyway, at least compared to Warden self heals. Burglar crits are only really essential in red line, as melee crit's triggers heals, but yellow and blue burgs can get by with other stat build approaches.
Interesting discussion!
Throllo
I was actually going to include LM's originally but decided to leave them out since they aren't traditionally a DPS class. They are actually quite interesting as an AoE DPS class if you are built for it. We use a Loremaster/DPS/Tank when we do Quays and Serpent T2C's and our LM who has no mastery/crit whatsoever and no LI's for red does more AoE on trash pulls than I thought he would.Quote:
Originally Posted by fmac81
I don't actually think Redline Hunter belongs on an AoE tierlist either, but I do use Redline hunter as the example for Hunter AoE due to hunter AoE being built entirely around RoA, which is a redline trait (and the reset trait is very deep into red) and it can be decently high. While decently high, its not worth actually putting on an AoE tierlist because hunters simply aren't an AoE class. Hunter AoE basically boils down to using RoA whenever its up and then go back to Single target.
As for why hunter is on the list to begin with, essentially its to illustrate why Single Target and AoE classes can't be compared using the same metrics (not sure if that came across the way I intended). I, personally, think Champions shouldn't be compared to Hunters/Burgs on a Single Target tierlist, and I would not expect to compare Hunters to Wardens and Champions on an AoE tierlist. Of course, I have to recognize that Red Champion is mostly a single target DPS spec, but its also true that red champions trait heavily into yellow to access abilities like Raging Blade. We could talk about balancing Red Champion Single Target, but that requires class changes that many have said shouldn't even be considered until Agility is nerfed (or Might buffed).
Another reason I mentioned it is because the logic that is used to justify buffing Champion Single Target DPS is that they don't do as much Single Target DPS as Agility classes, mostly Hunter, and this disparity is somehow due to an inherent bonus awarded to Agility classes that might classes can't have (surely it can't be due to the fact that these classes are designed to do different things). But a point worth considering, then, is if we apply this logic in reverse, aren't Hunters very far below Wardens and Champs on the AoE ladder? If what we want is classes to have equal outcomes in terms of DPS (which is what non-Hunters are essentially calling for) then shouldn't we be buffing Hunter AoE to match Champ/Warden while simultaneously nerfing Hunter Single Target DPS to match Warden/Champion? Alternatively, as has been said in another thread, if Hunters and Burglars should have their Single Target DPS nerfed to make Champions feel less bad, why not nerf Champion and Warden AoE down to a level closer to hunters? A guy in another thread said he prefers nerfing classes instead of buffing them, so lets nerf Hunter/Burg Single Target and also nerf Champion/Warden AoE while we're at it, yes?
It would appear to me that most people making suggestions about nerfing hunter/burglar damage have thrown the idea of class identity and class archetypes straight out of the window. It makes no sense to me why an AoE DPS class like Champions should be doing as much Single Target DPS as hunters and burglars.
If you want an actual AoE tierlist, though, it would look something more like this:
Warden
Champ
Guardian
(moderate gap)
LM/RK? Depending on the # of targets and fight length these 2 can change positions
Hunter
I'm also perfectly okay with adding crit to might if that's what people want. It won't make a great deal of difference, though.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond in such a helpful manner, Bammy! I see now the point you were trying to illustrate is how classes cant have the "best of both worlds" so to speak, otherwise, all the other ones will become obsolete. I've only ever messed around on a cap hunter on BR (my live hunter is still going through Mirkwood levels on a server I don't play much on), but I have a general sense of how the class is played mostly due to having died so many times on my warg haha. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
Still waiting for those darn yellow line fixes though. My hunter's LIs just got exchanged for FA 65, blue traited ones, only for the red line boost to come through lol.
I would agree LMs are kind of like Burglars in a sense that they serve utility in a fellowship, and aren't necessarily solely DPS or solely CC. That's part of the reason why I picked burglar as my main several years ago - I love the ability to adapt to whatever the situation calls for...Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
I also support that players shouldn't really be comparing "apples" to "oranges" like you said. However tempting it might be to look at, for example, a hunter's ranged DPS or warden's melee AoE, and wish for your class to be as desirable. For crying out loud, so long as people are petitioning these ideas — burglars have no damaging AoE to speak of!! Where's our piece of the pie?! :D AoE CDG or CA?, yes please... *facepalm*
Throllo
So tryin to turn this thread into another thread about plz nerf hunters. disguised as "we need to fix agility and crit" along with the usual "balance" chants. I hope dev see through the real motives behind these posts.
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by fmac81
Precisely. Maybe hunters could do with a few tweaks, but overall I think they're in a good spot. The upcoming Upshot changes (Longer cooldown and not as easy to reset) will be more than enough to balance Red line.Quote:
Originally Posted by fmac81
I personally think Vastin should take Yellow Hunter in a DPS direction and away from being CC-centric. Traps and such are interesting, especially One Trap and the damage bonus on the regular-old Trap, but I think with Red line being a Burst-y spec, and Blue very survival oriented, Hunters are lacking a sort of sustained DPS trait line revolving around DoT's. Snipers in Star Wars are very similar to Hunters and I would like to see yellow take on something echoing Virulence where the general archetype is something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by fmac81
DoT's > Damage Ramp > Cash-Outs (Or a channeled ability like Smouldering Wrath that increases potency depending on DoT's) > Repeat
I don't expect anything like this to come out at all, though. Too many other classes need work.
Exactly. Classes have identities to them and are good at different things. I think it encourages players to diversify their class pool as well and learn to play classes other than their "main".Quote:
Originally Posted by fmac81
Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyXAre you sure you're using the optimal gear?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertes
Which brings the champ to ~65000. Thus the % gap widens since it is lower on the DR curve.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
Quote:
Originally Posted by rondomir
Some bracelets, rings and pockets have Crit on them, and you have 3 extra 120 pieces. That brings you up the DR curve :)Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
Also using the DR curve in the other thread:
if X=85,000, y=18.14
X=65,000, y=15.36
18.14-15.36=2.78% crit. Isn't it ironic that the % gap is actually lower on the real model than using the simplified one I did earlier?
https://i.imgur.com/XmGwNEe.png
I wonder if its possible I do know what I'm talking about...