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I find it really frustrating, to put it mildly, that this beta build is going live despite the fact that freeps get tier 4 gear and creeps get NOTHING. Creeps are already underpowered and instead of dealing with that freeps get a pretty significant stat buff with the new gear. How long do we have to wait for the creep buff? Months?
An MMO with no restrictions becomes a single player offline RPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by subadar
Good luck trying to run a single player offline RPG as an MMO in which players have to actually merge their interests to develop shared meaning through their actions, and devs are supposed to code that platform of restrictions in which that shared meaning and goals are built onto.
If anyone can do as they please, then, there's no need for anyone to share anything with no one.
This is extremely relevant in a class & race restricted MMO like LotRO, because each class and race has a deficit and potential compared to other classes and races, which are ultimately meaningful for team-based or raid-based work based on cooperation.
This is not relevant for classless MMOs like Runescape in which players have no inherent deficits or potentials based on class or race because they can be anything as they please during combat (melee/magic/range).
And that's why using an open world Wilderness PvP area does not work for a class & race based MMO like LotRO, because in such MMOs you need some restrictions (queues and instances) inherent to the game's restrictions (classes and races) to coordinate team/group game experience.
In a way that a classless game like Runescape or Albion does not need to, because 1 player can beat 6 players in PvP at once in open world depending on how well he performs.
This is not possible in a class & race based MMO in which each player has deficits and potentials that cannot be overcomed by their gameplay: because it's inherent to its own character and not based on gear or skills that can be attained and changed during combat (like Runescape or Albion).
This is why queueing it's more efficient tool for PvP in class & race based MMOs, compared to open world PvP like classless MMOs (the way Runescape & Albion Online is).
LotRO is a class & race restricted MMO with no restrictions for PvP, which makes it a total salad.
Sorry Orion, but you are just as out of touch as Fantus was. Putting an audacity band aid isn't fixing core issues, individual classes need nerfs and buffs.
You need to make freeps session characters like creeps, or make creeps fleshed out characters with gear and such.
Creeps need more corruption slots aswell.
He never said it was. This is a multi-stage process, as all big revamps are.Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessSmurf
Hard pass to both. It's possible to balance both sides without making them carbon copies. It's been done before. It will be done again.Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessSmurf
No thanks, nerfs and buffs on freepside in the name of PvMP balance have no place in this game. Any work towards balance in the moors should be limited to the moors only.Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessSmurf
Agreed. I'll trust Orion with making adjustments within the Moors so that the travesty that is class balance in PvE land doesn't have a chance to pollute PvP. Champs may require Bracing/Sprint in PvE but they certainly don't in PvP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider5548
in what instance or raid do they require it ? Same with Guardian why do they need a sprint skill with such a long duration ? This was done purely for PvP . Why do freeps need a +10m ranged skill ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilo
agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DickDastardly
and how hard is to make reaver so that it can charge in combat. that would be huge improvement already.
and every creep class needs new set of skills and traits. but for a start there can be little tweaks here and there that would make people happy with their toons
I was being sarcasticQuote:
Originally Posted by DickDastardly
Right now, most of a class potential it's tied to its gear & LI. So, if you change the gear & LI you change the class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider5548
Orion can manipulate values that way.
But this would require to create new PvMP LIs (with no need for them to have 12 sockets each).
It would be easier if both PvE LIs become obsolete on Moors and Freeps get 2 new free PvMP LIs with a couple of new PvMP traceries/sockets (no more than 3 or 4 per LI, so 6 or 8 total) to start building up their new LIs through PvMP activities (pvmp quests/dailies/leveling/etc).
This will give Freeps a much more manageable balance than current 2 LIs per class with 24 traceries total and percentage based damage/heal/defence, cooldown reductions for tons of skills and tons of crazy things that are impossible to balance against Creeps.
Save yourself from this god awful idea. They're not going to do that and they can't. They just need to make creeps stronger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melank
There are two positive changes occurring in this update that I think are superb ideas which include: f2p PvMP, and no heal tagging.
However, here's what I think are NECESSARY changes for your already implemented changes as of BETA #3.
1. BUFF CREEPS. It's insane how little they are getting buffed, especially right off the bat and in comparison to Freeps. You could at least give them something like a +10% morale buff, no? (However, I think you should give them the same mits as 3 tactical and 3 physical mitigation corruptions; but removing the three corruptions each, so you could only stack 3 of each. Even if you don't do this, at least give them slightly more health...)
2. REDUCE THE COST FOR AUDACITY. On live servers, it takes a purple geared freep to get fully geared in 1 week to 1 month depending on how much they play. It takes around 35k commendations to get the gear. However, even if you already have this gear, it is going to take far longer with the coming update. Just why? For creeps it takes even longer--imagine how long it will take for a fresh monster player--and one that has no idea what they are doing! Why make the grind so unreasonable? It makes it seem like you don't play the game whatsoever lol. Please lower this FOR BOTH SIDES. PLEASE!
3. REMOVE THE 'CAN'T BARTER WITHOUT REMOVING ESSENCES' FOR UPGRADING AUDACITY GEAR. I have to spend 200 mithril coins or spend gold to buy essence removal scrolls just to click a barter button? Why? What is this? Is this to prevent a bug, or is this just trying to be annoying? Or--am I just missing something?
Any other changes I can live with. But this is seriously already making me consider quitting. I can't stand in front of Grams for another 6 months due to Freeps outnumbering and outpowering creeps...I want to have fun playing freepside again. Please fix this, especially #1, BUFF THE CREEPS!
@Orion
The problem that i mentioned on second beta is still not fixed completely:
Tactical mitigation and armour values on creepside have been unintentionally changed (on racial/class traits and some skills).
You fixed valuse on armour pots, WL aura, WL racial armour trait and spider pet trait. But other stuff is the same.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...395102/ff1.png
Also creeps need a buff: freeps get t4 armour when they are already overpowered. Without creep buff moors will die out quickly.
1. Add a similar audacity damage multiplier for creepside, just as freeps do. Doesn't have to be as high as 45%, but at least give creeps a chance to deal proper damage.
2. Make audacity commendation cost much lower than it is. 7.5k commendations for a ~1% dmg increase doesn't sound very appealing to players considering they have better options to spend their commendations on. Like defensive potions for example.
3. Make rank matter! There should be an exponential increase in damage, health, healing and finesse with every rank up, not just an extra 1% for each rank. Could go up by 1% at rank 1, then 2% at rank 2, then 4% at rank 3 etc...
4. Rework creep corruptions or change the set bonuses. For example, 3x mastery corruptions give only 5% mastery increase where it should be much higher. 6x critical rating gives a heal on kill type of skill, where it should probably be + critical damage.
Defensive corruptions should have some sort of reflect effect, where upon being hit (or critically hit) , there is a 10% chance to reflect 10% of that damage. Just an idea. If not, then just add an additional 3 or 6 corruption slots with each freep li update.
5. New creeps should be given most, if not all, of their skills when they first login. The only thing they should be working towards is corruptions, racial traits, audacity, and class traits. (if you want new players to stand a chance against a freep)
I understand you want to make pvp easier for new players to get into, and that is great. However, many basic and essential skills are still gated behind a rank wall. I say, go all out, and put all skills available for creeps at rank 0. With those skills, they stand a higher chance at getting points, and can learn proper rotations earlier in the game. At the same time, veteran players shouldn't feel like their hard work went to waste. Corruptions can also scale higher the more you rank up, and give better set bonuses. Battlefield promotion on creepside should also scale much higher, and should increase exponentially as you rank up. This should please both new and old players alike.
Overall, I'm happy the moors are getting some much needed attention. I understand its a work in progress and we won't be seeing drastic changes anytime soon. I appreciate the effort that is being put in. Making pvp accessible to everyone is a step in the right direction and im sure it will introduce a lot more players into it. Just keep in mind that while you may get new players to try out pvp, its a whole other story to actually get them to stay and keep going.
[QUOTE
and im sure it will introduce a lot more players into it. Just keep in mind that while you may get new players to try out pvp, its a whole other story to actually get them to stay and keep going.[/QUOTE]
Wise words. Making it faster to level up for the lower ranks is a good idea, until they discover that it will still be impossible for their toons to be on anything close to a level playing field with the opposition. Once they get a chance to see how little chance a full set of skills and Audacity gets them compared to the current FOTM. many will realize that they have been misled once again and will understand the attitudes of so many Creeps who have left the game.
Lets be honest....the Moors are dying due to the simple fact that the current PLAN does not work and does not satisfy new customers. Hoping it will is just a waste of resources.
Why release Tier 4 Audacity gear without buffing creeps who are already dog tier npcs?
After everyone has their audacity ranks moors will be dead once again with no creeps to fight while the freeps lineup at grams 1shot line frothing at the mouth for that last r0 greenies renown
Orion I really hope you're actually reading this, because the spam and inflow of suggestions is huge.
Mine would be short, simple, and brief. Remove the horses on Freeps in Moors. It makes no sense to have them in that zone as it significantly increases movement speed and they mostly cant be caught, which the same cant be said about Creeps.
Then we creeps should be ready to lose maps. Otherwise we would have unfair advantage in this context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewen
Creeps should lose all but 3 maps, Freeps shouldn't have mounts, and also get 3 maps in different spots in the map. Encourage objective gameplay and spread out fights!Quote:
Originally Posted by Makawulf
I can accept if it comes to balancing out-combat run speed for both sides. Because no freep can run away from a creep except in a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewen
too many champ enthusiasts
Is it intentional that the map to Gramsfoot with cooldown 1 minute for new characters is now available only for LP and not a reward for the deed anymore? I thought the idea was to make the obtaining of it easier, not to remove the existing quest reward.
well my thoughts on the update so far, fun to play a freep! not so fun to play a creep.
takes 2 sides to have a fight, this is a problem.
I would love to see the Moors get more developed, perhaps covering a larger area and/or just making the existing area look better. The addition of the new battle quests is good once they start working... and giving monster players more intimidating appearance would be great as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilo
What is it exactly about you that always wants creeps nerfed in some fashion or the other? You don't even participate in open field rvr. 3 maps? ####. leave horses alone. stop asking for the game to be fundamentally changed to fit YOUR playstyle, which is NOT the majority, when Orion has repeatedly said we are at a crossroads.
Oh by the way. Might want to dust off that low rank defiler of yours and come help save the creeps from getting oneshot AGAIN.