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Finesse tomes are pretty speculative IMHO. Seriously though, would you bet against higher stat tomes? They are even sort of logical, given the level increase, and they are presumably big money makers in the store. Real question to me is where they will peak in Isengard (I'd bet on up to +70 or +80...).Quote:
Originally Posted by Digero
It seems you are finally understanding that part of the pleasure of playing a combat RPG is in being able to set up the character freely, trying different builds, and having *all* the customisation options in the player's hands (within the limits you decide), rather than choosing "packages" of bonuses and applying them to gear as you have been doing so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken "Graalx2" Burd
Unfortunately these changes will still not cut it. The whole system needs to be revised to a point system where the player can choose precisely where to invest their points.
The same should be done to legendary items: They should come with all legacies at zero, but available to rank up at will.
Until those changes are done, you will constantly have trouble deciding which "package" of bonuses will please your player base, because no single package can please everyone nor contribute to really trying out different builds.
This implies that equipment/jewellery/weapons will no longer have any combat stats whatsoever. And that there will be no more traits that affect combat. And that will not please many of your current players, even though it is the best customisation system there can be.
I think that's what it means, yeah. But LMs only got the one melee skill right? Means there could be some significant differences in a hunter's melee attacks and a warden's javelins strikes, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo
It's still Will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabled_Tales
What's your worry here? You can have much more healing now that the cap is higher. FH isn't useless. Did I miss something?Quote:
I am so dissapointed, this is so stupid and the worst thing turbine has ever done. So what is the heal class? And fellowship's heart has no use, so I should just remove that. While I'm at it, I might as well throw out all of my healing gear, because it appears I will never need it again.
It's still all about Will, for outgoing heals, offence and power pool, and Fate for crits and regen. That hasn't changed.
I really wonder if you guys at turbine, when developing something, ever think about the impact on PvP. I mean you have a developer working on PvP, right, do you never meet him and talk about your projects? Doesn´t he say something like: oh my god, you can´t do that?
These changes will result in the worst PvP ever, even worse than with Moria. Cheers for that and cheers for postponing PvP changes to a point in the future that is "soon TM"...
Oh, and one more thing: Are you serious about giving every class more dps but not the captains? I really hope you are joking...
Removal of stat caps is good news for tanks generally but bad news for my elf tank in particular.
I'm now going to have 95 less morale than an identically equipped dwarf, as well as 2% less block, 1% less common mitigation. And my Dwarven freind will be loosing his weakness vs frost/lightning/acid damage when Endurance of Stone is up, since these attacks will check against tactical common damage.
I've been trying to persuade them to throw us a bone here and remove -20 morale penalty and give us a +8 vitality passive.
Now i'm resorting to begging - if they won't do that, then make one more tier of vitality stat tome available only for race : elf. Give us the opportunity to pay them money to narrow the gap.
Did I miss something about the stat consolidation section? Because when I read "Stat Consolidation: These changes are being made to make items with these bonuses more useful to more classes," I assume this means something like, if a piece of equipment has a +200 wound resistance now, it'll have +200 resistance that'll be applied to all four of the resistances in the future.
On the other hand, it seems like in the last couple posts talking about stat consolidation, that's actually supposed to mean "all of those individual stat types mentioned under stat consolidation? Going to be consolidated into much more generic categories." And I'm not getting that from the dev diary.
When we choose a race and class combo we have to deal with the consequences of that choice. Hobbit and Man Hunters don't get a bow damage passive like Elf Hunters do. My Dwarf Minstrel won't have a 2nd feign death because he's not a Hobbit. Your Elf Guardian also comes up short in the incoming healing department vs. Man Guardians, and doesn't have a racial BPE bonus either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemulas
Don't want to feel nerfed compared to another race playing the same class? Choose a different race.
Quoting myself from the racial discussion forum :Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestache
Agreed, Dwarves should have the best tanking passives, they are the race that was "hardiest to endure" and had the greatest skill in manufacture of weapons and armour. But Men as well, even Hobbits? Compared to Elves, men "were like in body, but more easily slain and less easily healed, and subject to numerous sicknesses that elves were not".
Well, the time of the Elves is coming to an end, and perhaps they should be the most disadvantaged race. But they seem far more disadvantaged as tanks than as dps, healers or casters. Which is strange, not only in view of what has already been written, but because at the end of the third age they were focussed on defence and preservation above all else.
Also notice how much more disadvantaged Elves are playing Guard/Warden than a Dwarf is as a hunter (1% less autoattack damage). I'm not asking for Dwarf hunters to get a bigger nerf, far from it - Tolkien's heroes were constantly overcoming the weakness of their heritage - it's part of what makes a hero.
Your tone is very blunt Lestache. We're in a dicussion about what changes we want to see for Isengard. I was asking for +8 vit and loosing the -20 morale penalty, not laser beams coming out of our eyes - is that really so offensive? It'd almost be a cosmetic change, in view of the other larger penalties which would stay.
Now of course if i want to play in a universe where Elves are physically smaller and less resilient than humans there's WoW, DDO, in fact every RPG out there.
If I don't like the state of affairs, what other Middle earth MMORPG do you suggest i go play?
Aside from the obvious difference in amounts of skills etc...yes, you will have the same amount of melee offence gain from 500 Will as a champ from 500 mightQuote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo
Just be glad you're not a Captain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuaim_Catha
Has a Dev replied yet to the the concerns of Captains about this?
Unless this is addressed, every class will now have this nifty benefit of one stat covering two purposes, with a *10 not just to a primary ability but also now through the primary stat, to a secondary ability...
EXCEPT NOT CAPTAINS
???
Something like this needs to happen, and soon... before we get to the point where the Devs have moved on to other things, and this is in the finalized version to be released.... and Captains get left in the dust... : (
* The Dev Diary needs to read: "Captains are a special case... And yes all of you Captains out there, you will get 10 times your Might contribution to Outgoing Healing.
Here is a thought to the dev's on the topic of the beloved Captain make all of the captains ratings and what not based on vitality. They are after all the the buff bots and it would be different but comparable to other classes.
Too far in the other direction. I'm all for consolidating offense rating and outgoing healing rating for Captains into one stat (be it Might or Will), but making Vitality that stat would make Captains the only class that could stack morale + offense rating + outgoing healing all with one stat, whereas everyone else would still have to stack vitality + their primary stat (Might, Will, or Agility).Quote:
Originally Posted by andeniaw
The current proposal is unfair to Captains, yes, but proposing Vitality as your primary stat is unfair to everyone else.
You don't need to be a meteorologist to tell which way the wind is blowing. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Digero
Heres your chance then, Roll a Captain and you can be stealth nerfed like the rest of us. You will still get to make exciting choices about whether to stack for one stat and therefore suck at everything else your class is built for, or go for a middle of the road jack of all trades build, with ###### DPS, laughable tanking ability, pitiful heals (at 75 compared to RK and Minstrel), oh, and by the way, I forgot to tell you that even if you spec DPS, you will still be bottom of the barrel for DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by BerenTelcontar
At least they never nerf our buffs....oh wait...snap...they have done that to me in the past too.
The remove of the caps- maybe someone please can explain me how there ever will be a balance?
For example:
On the one side there's a guardian of a raid-kinship. He's wearing full raidset and has the best jewelry out from raids+instances. After removing the caps he maybe has approx. 12000 morale if he wants.
On the other side there's my guardian, who is wearing the Galadhrim-craftingsets, armor+jewelry. After removing the caps he maybe has approx. 6000-7000 morale.
So how can there be a balance in skirmishes? Or in quests outside of raids and instances, where no T1 and T2 is available?
Will the difficult be normal for me and totaly easy for him?
Will it be hard for me and easy for him?
Will it be hard for him and impossible for me?
There will be diminishing returns on stats, if someone focuses overly on a particular stat they will be making a proportionately higher tradeoff against there other stats. I don't understand all the negativity. With hard caps often we hit a wall and there was little room for real gear progression. This change will offer more flexibility.
Finesse reduces block, parry, evade, and resistance, but none of these can go negative. Beyond that point, extra finesse is overkill, but how much is too much will depend on what you're fighting - landscape, instance, or raid. In general, a raiding build will be finesse overkill on the landscape, and all that finesse will have come at a cost in other stats. With suitable balancing of the options, this could mean that raiders don't get an advantage on the landscape - speculation, but Turbine should have already learnt that lesson, after having to remove radiance effects on landscape.
Another balance issue: some of us don't, or can't, use shields, which means no block. Because of the way finesse works, and the diminishing returns on stacking parry or evade, this means the same amount of finesse will have a systematically different effect on different classes.
Possibly because it renders the lack of a cap functionally irrelevant. If the tradeoff against growing one stat beyond a certain point versus other stats is too great, it no longer becomes feasible to grow that stat to that level. There would effectively still be caps in effect, but they would be determined by the players rather than imposed by the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idiotvillage
That may not be a problem if all we have to do in future is grow one stat and Vitality, which seems to be the case and I and many don't like the idea. Building two stats instead of more and having the same stats work differently for different classes seems like a simplification of the way the game fundamentally works and simultaneously an unnecessary overcomplication of class-to-class understanding. To be frank, it's mental.
Besides, a lot of folks like caps. It gives them a target to reach. I thought it was nice that there were multiple ways to hit those targets in game currently and see no reason why such a wholesale change is necessary.
do not worry we have thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by Parmur
The store said there is now also side creep
sell the volumes was also on that side so the situation will be balanced
ptaticamente equaled that of the volumes side freep freep side and so you will be able to say that there is a balance in the store
I'm pretty doubtful about this but probably will in a mechanical way to sell things creep side to balance the stats even more volumes for sale
Could someone who is more familiar with RoI and what it will bring tell me how many new skills we will have to juggle? My quick slots are overflowing as it is... how about throwing in another one, Turbine?
I don't see how this is different to how it is now, or in any other game. A player with better armour and better jewellery than you, who has more morale and more defence and more offence than you... will probably find quests a bit easier than you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwenryth
Skirmishes and overland questing is painfully easy. Just look at the outcry when a hard skirmish, Icy Crevasse, was unleashed. They will probably always be aimed at the lowest denominator of player. If you can't kill an overland orc you've gone wrong somewhere and need to check your playstyle.
Besides, diminishing returns. Just because someone decides to stack 200 more might than you will not make them 200 times stronger. Probably work out to about +9 more offence or something :p
At the moment the difference between raiders and nonraids morale isn't that big as it will maybe be in future without having a cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilka
I don't have problems with orcs or icy crevasse. Where did you read this?
But yes, I know many people who have problems with the forochel skirmish.
If the future content will be adjusted to fit on people with 10k morale, I'm sure I will have problems. And many others too.
Maybe not with one or two mobs at same time, but 3 and more, which is now really no problem. And this is what I'm thinking about.
Look at the General Discussion Forum, there are people who'd like the "can only be done solo" quests to be canceld, because their partners aren't able to do them. Whats about this people?
Not everyone is on/ near the cap now, if you don't go to raids or instances you don't have any problem with outrunning the cap, the crafted things aren't that good. So if the future content is related to the crafting, the people who now says that everything is to easy will get bored then. And this is what I mean with "how can this ever be balanced".
I could only find speculations when I tried searching for it...
but how is Finess calculated?
having a hard time following your logic but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwenryth
First, where did crafting become an issue? *boggle*
You don't EVER balance anything item by item. The guy with the 12k morale will have a trade off somewhere. The sum of the trade off's is where you find balance, not on who has the most morale.
If he gets hit for 1k morale each shot and you get hit for 300m each shot, who is going to be around for the final curtain? If he is getting hit for 1k and his healers can't keep up, who's going to drop first?
People gear up to a certain number and plan on running with someone else's buffs to cap them. Few people have capped stats natively, but with potions, captain buffs, gear for certain occasions (for some classes) you can hit caps in a lot of places. *I* haven't done it yet but I have some good advisors.
So, the moral of my story is, wait til the finished product comes to us before you start doing Chicken Little impressions. :)
[bwak bwak]