Tracking an Old Goat

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Originally Posted by Lohi

The warning is quite obvious and is in red and you don't even need to scroll the quest text to see it.

I think it might have been better to just block the later quests of his until you've done all the optional quests and only then will you have "scouted" the area. But I think players would complain at being forced to do long quest chains maybe.

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The warning is very obvious. It's too bad it's incomplete and gives no indication that there are six quests rather than four and that two of the quests are only offered under special circumstances. Even in you read the warning, you'd still turn in the quest prematurely unless you also read the deed window and made the connection.

I'll live without the deed. There are plenty of deeds I don't have. This was simply poor implimentation of a quest, no excuses.

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Originally Posted by Tullaian

The people who run into the problem seem to be the people who have gotten the NPC and then run directly to the patrol point and done then hand in usually resulting in only having 3 quests of the 7 done. This seems to happen when people don't check their Deed log and just motor towards the highlighted finish line as the Deed log for this quest is the only real indication of the hidden quests.

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I *do* read the deed log. I'm just not in the habit of reading it in the middle of an wolf and orc-infested woods. I read it in a camp where I'm not going to get mobbed. This wouldn't be so bad if it happened anywhere else in the game, but to my knowledge it doesn't. Nowhere do I know of is there a deed you can lock yourself out of if you don't check the log immediately.

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Originally Posted by Tullaian

I guess there are more deed completionists out there than realised. :) Most people don't need the virtue and the quest isn't linked to the meta-deeds for region completion but this thread is by far the longest.

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That isn't the point. The point is that this is an prime example of the poor or just plain buggy implimentation of quests in this expansion. There are many other examples.

As you that follow the forums know I do not complain much. But after reading this thread and finding out I can not complete a deed because of an in game bug, upsets me. I had not heard you had to summon the guy over and over and over and over until he gave you another quest.

I gave on on the guy after visiting a person you told me a mountain track was found, but no one had traveled it for some time. That along with the woman's footprints earlier in the falcon clan territory told me this was the lady. But I summon the guy and nothing.

He shows up and no quest ring.

Oh an by the way I have 2 alts now that have missing quest givers. I have rings but no NPC to talk to to get the quest. As far as I was concerned this is what was happening in this stupid quest line.

Total fail Turbine. Total Fail.

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Originally Posted by whatstaters

I posted in the Hunting the Pack thread above, but I echo the sentiment. When the red warning was there I carefully looked at my class log. I should be held accountable for quests that were in progress with the warning ignored. I shouldn't be held accountable for an invisible quest that I didn't get because I didn't hit the exact right spot of the landscape.

The only quest that I'm missing on this item is Hunting the Pack. It seems awful to bind progression to something that becomes arbitrarily impossible to complete.

After opening three tickets and getting three Working as Intended responses, I'm not really interested in trying to play further until I get clarification that the working in the quest is indeed what is intended.

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A dev already posted that this is in fact working exactly as intended.

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Originally Posted by ddaedelus

I *do* read the deed log. I'm just not in the habit of reading it in the middle of an wolf and orc-infested woods. I read it in a camp where I'm not going to get mobbed. This wouldn't be so bad if it happened anywhere else in the game, but to my knowledge it doesn't. Nowhere do I know of is there a deed you can lock yourself out of if you don't check the log immediately.



That isn't the point. The point is that this is an prime example of the poor or just plain buggy implimentation of quests in this expansion. There are many other examples.

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Hmm different playstyles I guess. I always check my deed log when a new deed opens up to see what it is. Especially in the expansion where I am doing it all for the first time and the deeds have been part of the guided exploration of the new stuff.

I don't think you can say the quest is buggy, it clearly works the way it was designed and can be completed.

In terms of being poorly implemented or not I guess that is a different question. I saw immediately how the deed was working and never had a problem but I know other people in our kin who are deliberately levelling slowly to savour the RoI content still missed out on the deed despite being quest/deed completionists and now now equally as miffed as some of the posters here.

What to do though ? They tried something new here , if the warning said this NPC has 7 hidden quests do not dismiss him if you haven't done him well then they wouldn't be hidden quests anymore. They did give a big red warning but clearly enough people have mis-interpreted the warning to highlight a possible issue with the instructions but how much should it be scripted/spoon fed then ?

There isn't even a title for the deed though, is this really the issue that has caused the most angst with ROI? *cough* Pit of Iron I'm looking at you.

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Originally Posted by Lohi

The warning is quite obvious and is in red and you don't even need to scroll the quest text to see it.

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The problem is that the warning tells you to make sure you've turned in all your quests...there is NO mention that this is your last chance to complete the deed.

I said it earlier in the thread but the problem remains that the quest dialouge is completely silent on the matter of who gives the quests for the deed. When you start the chain the deed pops up and you can see that there are a number of quests to complete. However you are also told that you are helping multiple NPCs with this chain, based on all of our past experience with quest chains a player is entirely reasonable to assume that all 3 of the NPCs named will give quests related to this chain (and thus the deed). The final red warning makes no mention that no further quests will eb given in this chain it only indicates that quests associated with one of the three named NPCs will no longer be available.

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Originally Posted by Tullaian

Hmm different playstyles I guess. I always check my deed log when a new deed opens up to see what it is. Especially in the expansion where I am doing it all for the first time and the deeds have been part of the guided exploration of the new stuff.

I don't think you can say the quest is buggy, it clearly works the way it was designed and can be completed.

In terms of being poorly implemented or not I guess that is a different question. I saw immediately how the deed was working and never had a problem but I know other people in our kin who are deliberately levelling slowly to savour the RoI content still missed out on the deed despite being quest/deed completionists and now now equally as miffed as some of the posters here.

What to do though ? They tried something new here , if the warning said this NPC has 7 hidden quests do not dismiss him if you haven't done him well then they wouldn't be hidden quests anymore. They did give a big red warning but clearly enough people have mis-interpreted the warning to highlight a possible issue with the instructions but how much should it be scripted/spoon fed then ?

There isn't even a title for the deed though, is this really the issue that has caused the most angst with ROI? *cough* Pit of Iron I'm looking at you.

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I believe the overall angst originates directly from the fact that, if you mess up, you are forever stuck with the deed.
Although it is annoying, you can navigate/complete the Pits of Iron.
Although he bugs 50% of the time mid-fight, you can kill Draigoch T2 CM.

You can not, no matter what you do, complete the Failtacular if you lose the whistle.
Therein lies the problem.

Although the solution is quite simple, really: Tether the quests to the stationary Andreg outside of Saeradan's camp.

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Originally Posted by Tullaian

Hmm different playstyles I guess. I always check my deed log when a new deed opens up to see what it is. Especially in the expansion where I am doing it all for the first time and the deeds have been part of the guided exploration of the new stuff.

I don't think you can say the quest is buggy, it clearly works the way it was designed and can be completed.

In terms of being poorly implemented or not I guess that is a different question. I saw immediately how the deed was working and never had a problem but I know other people in our kin who are deliberately levelling slowly to savour the RoI content still missed out on the deed despite being quest/deed completionists and now now equally as miffed as some of the posters here.

What to do though ? They tried something new here , if the warning said this NPC has 7 hidden quests do not dismiss him if you haven't done him well then they wouldn't be hidden quests anymore. They did give a big red warning but clearly enough people have mis-interpreted the warning to highlight a possible issue with the instructions but how much should it be scripted/spoon fed then ?

There isn't even a title for the deed though, is this really the issue that has caused the most angst with ROI? *cough* Pit of Iron I'm looking at you.

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The reason there is no title, is that this deed was added specifically to allow people to have a checklist of the quests.

Playing LotRO for more than 4 years now, this deed is the worst thing I've ever seen in this game.
It really made me upset to realise I will never be able to complete it and I stopped playing and leveling for a few days .
This can't be a developers intention.

There also might be a meta-deed one day including "tracking an old goat".

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Originally Posted by whheydt

Finally...a rewarding experience for those of us who like to actually pay attention to the game, read the quest text, and savor the plot lines....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

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I'm thankful I was on my Guardian- point in fact it bugged out for me. It didn't even offer me all the quests- my last one "Orc Mischief" didn't even show up as an active quest when I spoke to the npc. It allowed me to complete it, but never offered anything more. Still- my guardian already has 12 for 'Honesty'... I pray the bugs are worked out before my other toons get that far.

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Originally Posted by Peluna

Playing LotRO for more than 4 years now, this deed is the worst thing I've ever seen in this game.
It really made me upset to realise I will never be able to complete it and I stopped playing and leveling for a few days .
This can't be a developers intention.

There also might be a meta-deed one day including "tracking an old goat".

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./signed

Totally agree- it's an eye-sore for sure. If you are going to stick me with something I can never complete no matter what- give me the option to Delete it so I don't have to be constantly reminded everytime I check my log.

Hell- we'll both benefit. I can gloss over my failure to complete and I won't be reminded to how screwed up it is.

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Originally Posted by Hrodberht

The reason there is no title, is that this deed was added specifically to allow people to have a checklist of the quests.

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Which is very handy. In Annuminas you're never really sure you've gotten all the quests or not.

I like to take my time and try to complete as much deeds as possible.... but this deed was an annoyance. At the time I didn't know about the warning UNTIL I turned in the scouting quest. I thought I cancelled it but alas... it acted as if I accepted it and lost the whistle. :(

Though I was able to complete the deed later on. A kin member got the bird-whistle and I was able to tag along to finish them all. :)

I got all quests from Andreg, but before I finished Orc Mischief I hit the spot of the last quest. I did not click the shining ring of Andreg and killed the last Orc. But Andreg did not finish Orc Mischief, that one remained uncompleted although I killed all requested 10 orcs. I would like to finish Orc Mischief to get the deed.
I have read earlier postings about this topic and I noticed that the Andreg quests have created problems and dissatisfaction with players. I hope that LOTRO comes with a good solution.
Is it possible to redo the missing quest in a fellowship with someone who got the whistle? Can the other player share the missing quest with me?

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Originally Posted by sabeare

Is it possible to redo the missing quest in a fellowship with someone who got the whistle? Can the other player share the missing quest with me?

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I tried this. After turning in and losing the whistle, none of the Andregs have rings for me. I even joined a fellow that specifically had the quests I missed. There was no ring, he could not be selected by me, and the logs of the other fellow members showed that I could not complete this quest.

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Originally Posted by hucklebarry

I tried this. After turning in and losing the whistle, none of the Andregs have rings for me. I even joined a fellow that specifically had the quests I missed. There was no ring, he could not be selected by me, and the logs of the other fellow members showed that I could not complete this quest.

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Same. Went there with a kinnie last night and couldn't get the cruel traps quest of his ranger (he could naturally).

Thanks I will not try that solution. A kin member took the short route and ended up directly at the end spot and was not even able to start the other quests. Turbine has to find a solution, to many people are frustrated.

I did these today. Thankfully I am always suspicious, and upon realising Andreg had only given me one extra quest and the quest warning referred to quests, I went to investigate. You can click X on the quest window to avoid continuing.

I like this idea in theory - I like the idea of scouting with a Ranger, interacting with him and talking with him about the various things we are seeing and exploring. In reality, the map either needs to show all available quest spots or Andreg needs to say "Hey shall we look over there" or something, because even the most eagle-eyed, quest-reading player isn't going to suddenly decide to cover every square inch of the Gravenwood hoping they find the magical pinpoint for 'Hunting the Pack'.

That they can be completed with other people's pet Andregs is good, though, I'll be offering out a fellowship on future quests.

Also, I really like that part of the game where for the last 65 levels we got titles as little cheap rewards for minor tasks. Now we get no titles for slayer deeds and none for these cute side deeds. Reward please. IEXP is boring, especially when you're swamped in Kill Ten Rats quests.

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Originally Posted by whheydt

Finally...a rewarding experience for those of us who like to actually pay attention to the game, read the quest text, and savor the plot lines....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

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Quote for truth. All you young whippersnappers that have lost the ability and/or desire to READ are the epic fail, not the game. Our poor country, now filled with people who can only spasmodically hit the red button to get a food pellet... even though the sign above it says DON'T TOUCH THE RED BUTTON!

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Originally Posted by Tharrn

Same. Went there with a kinnie last night and couldn't get the cruel traps quest of his ranger (he could naturally).

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That's really odd. I was able to pick up and complete the quests after fellowshipping with a kin member who started the chain. I could see the ring pop up and so could she.

I did have one of the quest I was suppose to turn in but obviously couldn't before. Maybe you have to have at least one quest active even after loosing the whistle...

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Originally Posted by chazcon3

Quote for truth. All you young whippersnappers that have lost the ability and/or desire to READ are the epic fail, not the game. Our poor country, now filled with people who can only spasmodically hit the red button to get a food pellet... even though the sign above it says DON'T TOUCH The RED BUTTON!

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Don't imply this with everyone who is having a problem with this quest. It felt mis-leading even after the warning popped up when you turn it in. It would of made more sense if it had "accept" and "Decline" buttons on it instead of "continue". I thought clicking the X button would prevent it from turning in but nope. They should of put the warning in the BEGINNING of the chain.

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Originally Posted by chazcon3

Quote for truth. All you young whippersnappers that have lost the ability and/or desire to READ are the epic fail, not the game. Our poor country, now filled with people who can only spasmodically hit the red button to get a food pellet... even though the sign above it says DON'T TOUCH THE RED BUTTON!

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Quoted for delusional idiocy.

Myself and plenty of others take our time and read everything (minus every single deed when it pops up) and still did not get that we were not getting all the quests. After completing the 3 or 4 he gave me and reading all the text for them, I thought I had completed them all. The warning in no way made me think there might be more quests out there I hadn't received yet.

To be honest, I'm thinking the only way for them (Turbine) to actually get to work on this would be to just /bug it and GM report it to death until it becomes cost effective to fix it than to spend man-hours handling it.

Oh, and my experience is that GM's just do word searches and copy-pasta on these sort of tickets as well. Took me three tickets to get the same GM to stop auto-closing with his copy-pasta dialogue, and then I requested escalation to a senior GM, and said senior GM auto-closed with the same copy-pasta text.

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Originally Posted by Aprus1

To be honest, I'm thinking the only way for them (Turbine) to actually get to work on this would be to just /bug it and GM report it to death until it becomes cost effective to fix it than to spend man-hours handling it.

Oh, and my experience is that GM's just do word searches and copy-pasta on these sort of tickets as well. Took me three tickets to get the same GM to stop auto-closing with his copy-pasta dialogue, and then I requested escalation to a senior GM, and said senior GM auto-closed with the same copy-pasta text.

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Present the facts and let them determine what kind of game they want to make. Spamming an issue will lead to infraction problems before it will aid in resolution.

Once they determine a problem is not something they can help you with in game, they don't open the lines of communication up for arguments. Until they fix the way this quest works, they consider it to be a non-issue (like you wanting to argue for getting an item back that you deleted). Problems like that will always be auto-closed with the same text. The copy/paste is likely auto-filled from the ticket type when they close it as most helpdesk software supports and encourages. Hopefully they will see it as a confusing game mechanic and offer a way for others to resolve this for themselves in game in the near future.

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Originally Posted by sabeare

I got all quests from Andreg, but before I finished Orc Mischief I hit the spot of the last quest. I did not click the shining ring of Andreg and killed the last Orc. But Andreg did not finish Orc Mischief, that one remained uncompleted although I killed all requested 10 orcs. I would like to finish Orc Mischief to get the deed.

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This is exactly the same that happend to me.
I wrote a ticket but just got the standard answear.


What makes the problem with this deed even worse:
I play with the German client.
The add-on came to us in an completly unfinished status.
Many quests haven't been translated properly yet and many quests, items and NPCs are just TBD.
f.e.: earring TBD, you found a TBD, go to TBD and so on.
So many times you just feel like playin' an open beta and it can become very confusing.

In this context it's really annoying to get punished with an unfinished deed.

As some other players here I really try to complete ALL deeds in this game with my main character.
If "tracking an Old Goat" will not be fixed or changed I guess I will lose my motivation to do any more deeds at all.