A Letter from Executive Producer Aaron Campbell

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Originally Posted by Shane412

I have a challenge for the executive and devs of Lord Of The Rings Online. I odnt post much on the fourms but this needs to be addressed. My name is Shane and I been playing this game since I was 14 . I am 19 now. 15x12x5=900$ dollars I spent only to play this game. Can you imagine that. Not only did I meet new friends. Friends that I still have five years later. I have lost some of these friends due to the lack of game development. I learned a lot of life skills from this game. I play a rank 12 burg originated from the server landroval and now on brandywhine because of lack of people that are playing on landroval.

My main concern is the game is going down hill and many many of us will agree with this.

What I am looking for is a logical answer on why not look to improve the game but make it worse? What are the motives and what is planned to benefit not only rpers but raiders and pvpers. Not to mention that pvpers seem to still be paying the $15 dollars a month to play so that has to be where most of the income is coming from and also the excessive amount of trouble. So why is it mention to buy ettenmoors in the store? YOU WOULD LOSE MONEY THAT WAY. It seems to me that the game will be in maintenance mode soon.

My theory on the subject is why not consolidate the servers to only three or even one and just upgrade your servers so it can handle the amount of players. Even make the little effort to make the map bigger for more people. Something to bring back the memories I had in this game.

What are the motives. I don't mind paying the $15 dollars a month but it seems the money is going for lost causes.

Everybody loves the lotro theme. And I tell you this much the game will always have its players if you continue to put effort into the game..

I just want to know and if I could help in anyway. I can even give you a solid 1000 people that agree with me. That I know alone and many others ..

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Let's take a moment and imagine how well LOTRO would be doing, as a game, if they didn't have the rich and wonderful "LOTR" lore to fall back - an attempt for the player base hang onto "something".

Depressing.

Is it me or does the Turbine community team usually seem unnecessarily cryptic?

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Originally Posted by Shane412

My theory on the subject is why not consolidate the servers to only three or even one and just upgrade your servers so it can handle the amount of players. Even make the little effort to make the map bigger for more people. Something to bring back the memories I had in this game.

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Going out on a bit of a limb and saying that I don't think they are actively looking to destroy the game or anything... I think it is that the developers have been implementing a vision for the game that doesn't necessarily agree with where their players are at... or at least not those who enjoy good grouping content.

However, I wanted to put forth an idea that I think might address the server merger/population issues...

For a short time, offer free or highly-discounted server transfers... and let the players essentially merge the servers in their own way.

Back when I played City of Heroes, this is what they did. For a short time, they allowed people free transfers (and VIPs got 1 free transfer a month after that). What you saw was a general migration of the players to only a handful of servers... you saw the players meld together in a more natural way than what would happen with forced mergers. And, the players pretty much took care of the re-naming of their characters.

This way, you would also stabilize the overall population... and there would be less work (ideally) on the part of the developers in terms of allowing the players to take care of some of the details themselves.

It is just a thought.

FYI... the reason I propose that it be free (or highly discounted by at least 50%) for a while is so that it makes the transfer period available to the most number of people and (ideally) speeds up the migration process.

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Originally Posted by germcell

there is a feed back system in game.

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Really? What would that be? The "I've cancelled my subscription" feedback or the "I don't log on anymore" feedback? Because I don't know of anyplace other than the forums to provide feedback about the game.

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Originally Posted by Holy_Icon

Probably worth mentioning that I know you're not a developer, but your voice carries more weight than us, un-ascended players.

P.S.
The personal deflections you used are not necessary.
My comments are to be aimed through you to those they should find but whom I cannot directly target.
Players feel powerless and voiceless.
Forums to handle such things are usually welcomed in other game communities.
Also, I am not upset, mad, raging or any of the like.
Simply speaking words that have the meaning I intend them to have.

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I have to echo this.

I have noticed that the community manager (not using his name because it's not a PERSONAL attack) has gotten very, very short tempered over the past many months to the point of indignation fairly often. In fact, he reminds me quite a bit of good ol' Floon Beetle of yesteryear. I don't like reading the Dev posts anymore because too often I find myself tilting my head at the community manager's comments and wondering if his tone pasts muster as good community relations and customer service. As a customer (since beta) I don't think it does. Perhaps burn-out is to be blamed, but a vacation and corrective action are warranted.

Well, I'm gonna take the fanboy route and say that I'm excited about all this.

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Originally Posted by Saniko

Ooh, Ent Session Play? Can't wait to do some orc-stomping :)


I remember seeing a bird perched over the mailbox in Aughaire - an air mail courier? - so I can imagine a VIP player having the LOTRO version of Hedwig.

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I think I have seen this bird for years now - so it's nothing recently added I think. ;)

Wasn't it a crow?

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Originally Posted by rougeredmage

i would have prefered trollshaws to be revamped over north downs myself

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On the last HtoI on Brandywine Sapience said that there is still the revamp of North Downs, Troll Shaws and Misty Mountains like it has been said earlier when I remember it right. :)

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Originally Posted by Nymphonic

Well, I'm gonna take the fanboy route and say that I'm excited about all this.

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Didn't see that coming.

i like the new skill tree.

i like HD.

i like mounted combat.

what i don't like is the silence.

when the last few players who still log on leave our kin, we'll turn out the lights.

Greetings fellow middle-earthlings.

For those who know me on the Riddermark server, will know me organising many raids and activities on an almost daily basis. It's a fantastic opportunity to get as many people involved as possible and running activities that most people enjoy.

However, the most frustrating things I hear all the time is the lack of players on our server, especially during the evenings that I play (Australian time), so organising a simple 12 man raid can be frustrating and tedious and can take up to an hour sometimes. I would love to see a merger of sorts of the smaller populated servers to help bolster and stimulate the general activity at various times throughout the day and night. Look, I don't know the technical difficulties that this would involve, but it would be a welcomed move by many.

I also hear it a lot that people would love some more variety in the pvp side of things, as creeps vs freeps has only limited appeal and can be extremely frustrating at times, especially for new entrants into Moors, that get slaughtered immediately they enter by much more powerful adversaries. How about incorporating some more fun style pvp arenas? Surely the races of middle earth had fun too! Prior to coming to LOTRO I played Guild Wars for nearly 5 years and over 19,000 hours of playtime... and I loved the variety of pve and the range of pvp options, such as tournaments, arenas like Jade Quarry etc. Just gave everyone something else to do... I'm so over getting slain by some sneaky warg that pwns me in 10 seconds flat as soon as I enter Moors.

And maybe a few more 24 man options too.... yes, I know I said earlier that its hard to find a team sometimes, but there are also many times that people have to be excluded because the 12 man team has been filled... lets get some more larger raids to choose from!

Thanks all, see you in game.

Welcome Back, Aaron!

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Originally Posted by lordglencairn

I have noticed that the community manager (not using his name because it's not a PERSONAL attack) has gotten very, very short tempered over the past many months to the point of indignation fairly often.

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Which puts him, if true, far far FAR above some extremely vocal members of this community. If he's "short tempered" then they have no restraint left at all as far as their tempers are concerned.

I'm not naming particular members for one group or another group in terms of play style, but merely the play styles themselves. For example, PvMPers, raiders, soloers, casuals, hard-cores, etc. Which group seems to complain the most? Two of them, actually. PvMPers and raiders (and in this latter group would go not just those who do 12-mans and 24-mans, but also 3- and 6-mans as well; those players who look for end-game group content that is not "faceroll").

Whether they like the term or not, they have been labeled as the vocal minority. I don't see how anyone could dispute the "vocal" part. The part they refuse to accept is the "minority" part. And that is a stumbling block to them, and it is what causes a lot of flaming and disruption in otherwise normal conversations. They say, "everyone I know says..." or "just take a look at forum XYZ..." What they don't realize (whether intentionally or not) is that the number of members who use this forum is extremely low. Most people joined LOTRO so they can play a game. They don't care about any forum. All they want is to sit back and relax for a few hours with their friends. And unless they encounter a problem in game, what reason do they have to come here? We don't often see brand new members with no prior posts coming here to say, "oh my gosh I LOVE XYZ!!!" Usually when we get posts like that it is from members who have already posted on the forums before and who just want to share something they never noticed before. Usually when people come to the forums (when they otherwise might not) it is to complain about some bug they encountered and to get help fixing it.

In short, the amount of forum users is already a minority of the overall playerbase. And the amount of PvPers and raiders within that small group of forum users is even smaller. Like it or not, mock it all they want, those players are the minority -- and they are a very vocal minority at that. What's more is that they refuse to give up. And that's fine, but as the game continues on a path that leads away from what they want, they become more and more vocal and tempers start to flair and things get said that should never have been thought, much less said.

Very few members of those two groups approach the situation rationally. For example. Let's go up a few posts. Look at a few of them. Someone mentions a free-fall of the faceroll (dumbing down). As that member has only 2 posts, obviously he/she is not overly vocal on the forums. But that sentiment is widely shared among the PvPers and raiders. There was a whole thread about that very thing that went on for quite a while (and last I saw was still going on). Those are the standard response from members of those two groups. Compared to Post #311, which is extremely rational and polite.

Too many members of the PvMP and raiding groups are negatively vocal, turning normal convos into flame wars. They choose to do this. Maybe they think they won't be given any attention if they are calm and nice about it. A bit like a mob, really. Unfortunately, that mindset is what has gotten many of them in trouble and caused many others to be overlooked. I must say, I get tired of it. I see a new thread pop-up, I hover my cursor over the title to get a brief snapshot of the contents, I sigh and say to myself, "Oh, that argument again," and I skip over it. Sometimes even within that 2-liner snapshot, I get a glimpse of community guideline violations. If they can't even get past the first two lines without breaking some rule, I really don't want to read the rest of their post, and I can't imagine the staff members do either.

TL;DR

Who are you more likely to consider? The angry PvMPer/raider who is able to hold in his/her anger and give voice to his/her problems in a rational and polite manner? Or the angry PvMPer/raider who can't go more than a few words at a time without using words like "dumbing down," "faceroll," "EZmode," or "kindergarten"?

Frankly, there are often parts that are condemned with those descriptions that I (and many others) thoroughly enjoy, and let me tell you: we don't appreciate being considered dumb or in kindergarten. Our play styles differ, sure, that's okay with us. Maybe at times various things about the game are leaning in our favor. That doesn't mean that our play styles should be called dumb, faceroll, EZmode, etc. If we can accept their play styles and happily say, "sure, by all means let's see more of this!" why can't others do the same for us? We see people say, "Oh I love HD," and others who say, "Oh I hate HD", and the same for the class changes, the EBs, and a plethora of other topics. It doesn't mean one side is wrong and the other is right. They are just different. But why can't they all be different and yet remain polite and mature-minded at the same time?

Great thread here. I am glad Ms. Paiz has moved on and we are under the auspices of Rowan.

My wish list:

Scale all the instances & raids. My kin's playstyle is slow static leveling with Stones of the Tortoise equipped at most times. We love replaying the instances at different levels. This is doubly true now that the skill trees have changed the game's battle mechanics. I would love to see scaled versions of the Moria instances and others that consistently drop barter tokens (enough with the RNG) to everyone who participates, for incomparable level-scaled gear that is thematically & cosmetically appropriate to each dungeon.

Implement crafting directly from vault inventory for VIPs. I have a full set of max'd Guild crafters and as a VIP I'd love to be able to craft recipes using ingredients that are still stored in the vault, rather than pulling them into my personal inventory. This would be a huge quality of live upgrade for VIPs.

Provide more incentives for grouping: a full 20 - 95 leveling path through scaled instances only with bonus marks & medallions, for example. Provide a venue for those who prefer to group and take on challenges that way. Your players will come back if there are fun, engaging group dungeons to run with barter token non-RNG rewards, interesting and unique set bonuses, and lovely matching cosmetics.

I'm here for the duration, b/c I'm one of those who loves landscape, instances & raids too, but I'd wager some clear communication about new group content would bring back some lapsed raiders and instance runners. These are people who are sad to leave the game, they really want to stay & play but feel there's nothing for them now.

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Originally Posted by lordglencairn

I have to echo this.

I have noticed that the community manager (not using his name because it's not a PERSONAL attack) has gotten very, very short tempered over the past many months to the point of indignation fairly often. In fact, he reminds me quite a bit of good ol' Floon Beetle of yesteryear. I don't like reading the Dev posts anymore because too often I find myself tilting my head at the community manager's comments and wondering if his tone pasts muster as good community relations and customer service. As a customer (since beta) I don't think it does. Perhaps burn-out is to be blamed, but a vacation and corrective action are warranted.

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I just have to respond to this. The role of the Community Manager cannot be Mr. Nice Guy 24/7. With the various threads that pop up daily that turn nasty his role is to deal with these things. I for one do not envy the job Sapience has.

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Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

...long post

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So because someone said the "community manager" (and we have only one so not using his name doesn't make it better btw) is short-tempered you think it is necessary to now call out other players as "vocal minority" being the cause? Pot:Kettle or worse in my opinion.

For the record the game has been dumbed down - but that doesn't mean anybody is calling anyone dumb. I healed a T3 Icy Crevasse raid skirm done with 6 people by using ONLY Bolster Courage. I hit 46k hps with the vent buffs, but earlier doing T3 skirms I hit 26.4k hps without them. Using only BC. Being a good healer used to require skill and attention but now all it requires is hitting one key without even paying attention to the screen on what is the hardest skirm raid in the game. Not all the characters were properly geared, we were doing skirms in the hopes of gearing 2 of them out so you can't say we were all "uber". DPS is off the charts and most folks don't have to bother with skill rotation or even much attention to what they're doing. One of the best RKs I've played with was saying he used to have a specific skill rotation to get his high crits and dps, now all he has to do is mash buttons. Coincidence? I think not. So whether you like it or not (in your words) the game has been dumbed down. Players remain the same intelligence/skill level they were before.

When I see posts like this one I'm sad, because I think all of us should be encouraging Turbine to create content that gives us an interesting game with a variety of content to choose from with an appeal to all players. I want challenging raids and instances, and I want interesting content for solo players or more casual folks who may or may not group a lot. After this I just feel like I've been told to sit in the back of the bus.

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Originally Posted by Rhuvor

I just have to respond to this. The role of the Community Manager cannot be Mr. Nice Guy 24/7. With the various threads that pop up daily that turn nasty his role is to deal with these things. I for one do not envy the role Sapience has.

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I have to agree. He's not getting short tempered really. People **** and moan about not getting direct answers, and now that he is giving direct answers to some things, those people are accusing him of being rude because it's not the answer they want to hear. Perhaps they prefer vague answers so they can mull over them and make them mean something else.

Welcome back Rowan!

After the news regarding lay-offs your letter and return has instilled new hope in me for the future of this game.

I agree that the Community Manager cannot be a nice guy 24/7 as well. I think part of effective communication is communicating when people are being abusive. I think Sapience does a good job in a tough position.

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Originally Posted by Beaniemooch

So because someone said the "community manager" (and we have only one so not using his name doesn't make it better btw) is short-tempered you think it is necessary to now call out other players as "vocal minority" being the cause? Pot:Kettle or worse in my opinion.

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O.o I did not admit he is short-tempered. You may notice two of the first words I used. "If true." I did not admit he is short-tempered.

I did not call out any players. I referenced two groups. FYI - I am a raider and I am a PvMPer. So, what's next, I called myself out? -.- You snipped my entire post, does this mean you did not read past the first few sentences? Perhaps you missed the part towards the end where I pointed to a specific post by someone from those groups who actually posted rationally? Your entire post is a case in point.

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Originally Posted by Beaniemooch

For the record the game has been dumbed down - but that doesn't mean anybody is calling anyone dumb.

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Yes it most certainly does. To dumb something down is to make it dumb. There is no escaping that fact. And if we like it in whatever form it is, does not mean we are dumb, yet that is exactly the implication used. That those who oppose the so called "dumbing down" are intellectually higher or more sophisticated than the rest of us.

And since things are apparently being made dumber to accomodate the rest of us, it is apparently too easy for you. And I say you specifically because of your Icy Crevasse example. Good is relative. I would consider myself a good and skilled healer -- more than adequate. But I'm definitely not the best healer. If your example is 100% accurate, then I'd say you are a better healer than I, because I could not achieve that. People talk about critting with heals and whatnot that I've never even seen before, and I've seen people saying things like, "I've one-shot every mob I've come across since I first started playing on a new toon I made post-HD". I almost never one-shot any mobs at all. What, does this mean my server is broken? Or am I just too dumb or inexperienced or not skilled enough because I don't one-shot things all the time?

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Originally Posted by Beaniemooch

When I see posts like this one I'm sad, because I think all of us should be encouraging Turbine to create content that gives us an interesting game with a variety of content to choose from with an appeal to all players. I want challenging raids and instances, and I want interesting content for solo players or more casual folks who may or may not group a lot. After this I just feel like I've been told to sit in the back of the bus.

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I like challenge as much as anyone else. I enjoyed Draig and ToO (when my lag didn't interfere). I didn't do quite as much RoR stuff because I got preoccupied with lower level alts. I despise EBs because they are insanely difficult to solo/duo -- they are like having a second job and too boring for me to do more times than are required by the epics. I used to enjoy PvMP, except now most of my friends have either quit or transferred to a more active server. Now I doubt I'll ever get back into it, at least on Riddermark. I also remember the game being a lot harder even in normal gameplay. There was more challenge. And in some places that was a good thing, but in some it was bad. There are simply places that it is too hard, or that it shouldn't be as hard anymore. In obsolete places (Angmar, for example) where no one is running content anymore, there is no point in keeping it so hard. It should be made soloable. If people still actively ran stuff, sure, keep it hard. But not now that so much is skipped over. When you can't even find a group for landscape group content, there is no point in keeping it hard. Making this stuff soloable is a good choice. EBs are, as I said, way too hard. So I don't see how they can be considered "dumbed down".

There remains content (foremost among them the EBs) that need to be scaled back in terms of difficulty. As for other (more normal stuff) perhaps it's not the content that is being "dumbed down". Perhaps its our characters. But where is the line drawn? Some people probably want to have a full on fight to the death at any standard enemy encampment. But others don't want it to feel like a second job. To throw a blanket across it all and say, "this game is so EZmode and dumbed down"... *sigh*

As an end-note: my previous post was in terms of manner. How people treat other people. Not in what the actual dispute was. If you have a problem, then cool! I have a problem too. We all have things we don't like, be it small or big. But why can't everyone approach these problems politely? That was my original point.

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Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

I'm not naming particular members for one group or another group in terms of play style, but merely the play styles themselves. For example, PvMPers, raiders, soloers, casuals, hard-cores, etc. Which group seems to complain the most? Two of them, actually. PvMPers and raiders (and in this latter group would go not just those who do 12-mans and 24-mans, but also 3- and 6-mans as well; those players who look for end-game group content that is not "faceroll").


In short, the amount of forum users is already a minority of the overall playerbase. And the amount of PvPers and raiders within that small group of forum users is even smaller. Like it or not, mock it all they want, those players are the minority -- and they are a very vocal minority at that. What's more is that they refuse to give up. And that's fine, but as the game continues on a path that leads away from what they want, they become more and more vocal and tempers start to flair and things get said that should never have been thought, much less said.

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I have to dispute a couple things you said which are... not entirely correct.

While the number of people who use the forums is small... and the number of people who would be counted as PvPers and raiders is small... the people who even semi-regularly participate in the raiding aspects of the game tend to have the most "trickle-down" impact on the game.

In terms of the impact raiders have on the community, let me fire off a few examples...

> Raiders are the most likely people to use the Auction House. Their "money" often goes toward the gear and consumables they need for group activities. A raider (playing a hunter) is much more likely to even go looking for Light/Fire Oils, Bow Chants, and Focus Potions. A raider is much more likely to think about using various things that might be overlooked by others. And, guess what? Raiders are the most likely people to (by extension) support the "economy" of their server.

> Likewise, raiders are much more likely to make full use of the crafting system. They want the good gear and consumables. So, that is going to create natural demand for crafted items. Yes, other people do use the crafting system... but not nearly as much as someone who needs to keep up their crafting to support raiding habits... and by extension, their friends are encouraged to keep up their crafting to support their raiding friends.

> Raiders are the ones most responsible for a lot of the good items that make their way to the Auction House. All those Star-lit crystals on the AH didn't just magically appear. You don't get them by RPing or questing (well, not yet anyways). You get those kind of items to drop only by running 3, 6, and 12 man instances.

> Raiders are the ones who encourage the building of a solid network of "friends" within the community. There is just something about "fighting, bleeding, and dying together" that builds friendships... in ways that other methods don't even compare. You are able to make that "connection" much better via raiding. Granted, some raiders can be jerks... but I would say easily 90% of them are great folks... if you don't mind putting up with a little coarse language and crazy antics.

> All other aspects of the game benefit from having a healthy raiding community. I dare say that raiders are much more likely to discover the "fun" aspects of the game... like RP, music, crafting... even delving more into the quests... because raiders want to learn the mechanics of the game so as to discover how best to play their characters. Even raiders need time to just chill out and do non-raiding stuff. Example: There was a really great Guardian who used to play on my server (some may know him as Horthell) who also loved to mess around with the music system.

> Raiders are the most likely people to spend [real] money on the game. They have the most incentive to do so... if only to maintain their subscription.

> Raiders are the most likely people to have greater knowledge about the game... and be able to pass it along to newbies... thus, adding more people to the "raiding population."

Now, don't get me wrong... I am not saying that other people don't do some or all of the things I listed. I am simply saying that raiders have the most natural incentive to take full advantage of all aspects of the game.

And, I dare say that those who are voicing discontent with the LACK of adequate group/raiding content is steadily growing beyond just the more active raiders... even the some of the people who are more the "average Joe that only dabbles in grouping" are starting to speak up.


As I have stated before... for the first time... Helms Deep brought us new content that has not really offered decent group or solo friendly content. At least with Riders of Rohan, we had Hytbold initially... and the Erebor instance cluster. Not everyone thought they were the best... but it did give decent solo-friendly progression (Hytbold) stuff to do at the level cap... and Erebor at least attempted to give us some instances capitalizing on "The Hobbit" interest.

Helms Deep brought us the trait trees... which has had mixed reviews depending on who you ask... but (IMHO) fell short on even doing what Riders of Rohan delivered. So, now, not only are the "raiders" unhappy with the LACK of good group stuff... Big Battles would have been so much better with a few tweaks... but, there is not much for the solo guy to do once you hit the level cap. The solo guy doesn't even have decent repeatable quests to do to get more Western Rohan barter tokens beyond war bands.

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Originally Posted by TheCrossbow

While the number of people who use the forums is small... and the number of people who would be counted as PvPers and raiders is small...

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Just to add to this point. The number of players participating in any LOTRO activity besides landscape questing is almost certainly a minority. Festivals, crafting guilds, housing, alts, deeding, reputation, horse collecting, cosmetics - you name it, it's a minority activity.

If any one of those activities was cut from the game, as raiding effectively has been, with no communication or explanation from the developers, you can be pretty darn sure that a lot of the the posts by players who enjoyed that activity would fail Mar-Evayave's 'manners' test.

The same would happen if any activity was neglected to the astonishing extent that PvMP has been left to rot. The state of the Ettenmoors really has to be experienced to be believed. Frankly if festivals or housing was as utterly broken the forums would light up and rightly so.

On the face of it the response from the Raid and PvMP communities has been pretty restrained. Focusing on the handful who allow their anger to boil over into unpleasantness to other players is a distraction. LOTRO used to be able to cater for everyone and all those groups rubbed along pretty well. The silence and complicity from those who don't take part in Raiding or PvMP is shameful. I say this to them: one day your preferred activity will be on the cost-cutting chopping block and perhaps then you'll understand the rage of players whose game experience has been gutted with no explanation or comment and who are expected to suck it up on the grounds that they are "only a minority".

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Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

I did not call out any players. I referenced two groups. FYI - I am a raider and I am a PvMPer.

To dumb something down is to make it dum EBs are, as I said, way too hard. So I don't see how they can be considered "dumbed down".

There remains content (foremost among them the EBs) that need to be scaled back in terms of difficulty. As for other (more normal stuff) perhaps it's not the content that is being "dumbed down". Perhaps its our characters. But where is the line drawn? Some people probably want to have a full on fight to the death at any standard enemy encampment. But others don't want it to feel like a second job. To throw a blanket across it all and say, "this game is so EZmode and dumbed down"... *sigh*

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Snip snip.

I can't understand where you are coming from here. You don't like EBs, ok that's not a hard concept to grasp. But apparently you've done each one once per character and yet expect to find it easier than it is currently. Once you are a R5+ engineer everything tends to be so simple and formulaic and yes easy that any nerfs would be hard to tolerate.

But specifically to address you're approach to this... You are a raider, and well versed in the ettenmoors by you're own admission. Was your first run of ToO simples? how about OD or BG or the rift? or even the watcher. Was your first few hours of the moors full of killing blows , dancing from victory to victory? didn't think so. Yes the EBs seem hard at R0 especially when you haven't looked up any strategies for the quests. But with some perseverence it quickly becomes a AFK bore fest (granted only a few are like this) . Helms dike certain combos of side quests after setting up pre fight you literally can AFK and get platinum on 3 quests and the main. If you're unlucky you'll have to fire a catapult a few times.

Hello,

I have played this game since release with a long break 2008-2011. I try other games but nothing is like LOTRO. Not sure why.

I like PvP (PvMP) in LOTRO.

Why do you waste resources and time on other #### in this game? Changing mail system or inventory or creating quests or making people get to experience life as an ent is to me and many others useless. Why even raise level cap? You've basically rehashed the same quests and areas after enedwaith with addition of mounted combat which must have taken a lot of effort and not paid off.

Get known for PvP (PvMP) instead. Market yourselves as producers of a PvP game. Stop wasting money on making a level 37 free to play hunter being able to open mail in a boar infested forest and spend some time making LOTRO PvP in to the most bad-### PvP of all times.

If you don't want to do it, let me. I will do it for free. I am not joking. I will do it FOR FREE. NO MONEY REQUIRED.

I know I come off as a d-bag, but I am serious.

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Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

Just to add to this point. The number of players participating in any LOTRO activity besides landscape questing is almost certainly a minority. Festivals, crafting guilds, housing, alts, deeding, reputation, horse collecting, cosmetics - you name it, it's a minority activity.

If any one of those activities was cut from the game, as raiding effectively has been, with no communication or explanation from the developers, you can be pretty darn sure that a lot of the the posts by players who enjoyed that activity would fail Mar-Evayave's 'manners' test.

The same would happen if any activity was neglected to the astonishing extent that PvMP has been left to rot. The state of the Ettenmoors really has to be experienced to be believed. Frankly if festivals or housing was as utterly broken the forums would light up and rightly so.

On the face of it the response from the Raid and PvMP communities has been pretty restrained. Focusing on the handful who allow their anger to boil over into unpleasantness to other players is a distraction. LOTRO used to be able to cater for everyone and all those groups rubbed along pretty well. The silence and complicity from those who don't take part in Raiding or PvMP is shameful. I say this to them: one day your preferred activity will be on the cost-cutting chopping block and perhaps then you'll understand the rage of players whose game experience has been gutted with no explanation or comment and who are expected to suck it up on the grounds that they are "only a minority".

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^^ This, it's worth quoting in full as it is so spot-on in my book. Thanks Tarmas.