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Unfortunately, with how troublesome and unpredictable this music update has proven to be, it will likely be inevitable that someone's event will be inconvenienced, since there will always be one upcoming. Here's to hoping you get your "It will/won't be ready in X weeks" response. For your sake, I do hope that it can be so predictable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emere
Being its only a once a year event and this would be my second year running it..me too :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Erethal
Hi all,
I want to thank you for all your dedication to testing and giving feedback on this system.
After the many tweaks that have been made to this system due to your feedback we finally feel it is in a state for Live release. It will be going out onto the Live servers in the next couple of weeks.
After that point we will continue to make tweaks as we are able based on the feedback you have given on off-notes or other issues and will be looking into adding another lute in a future update.
We hope that the new system going out before the U16 release will give you plenty of time to make the adjustments to your songs before the big festivals.
Cheers and thank you again for your help in improving this system!
Vyvyanne
*looks up at previous posts*Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne
From what I see, there is a major snap-pop issue...
And I'm sorry, but you're trying to fix what isn't broken.
I hope the old lute is brought back soon. This is going to ruin so many of my songs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne
This is sad news in my opinion. Of the few testers I seen on Bullroarer, I don't know any of them that would agree this is ready to go live. I spent quite a bit of time on Bullroarer during the last test sessions and the majority of the people there did not think this was ready to go live yet.
It seems we did little good...
All the same, thank you for the early warning and information. I/we do appreciate knowing in advance.
My finger is on the button to give up. You all have provided feedback since the last session that hopefully has been fixed, however it would be nice to have one last test. If the lute is really broken, and there are still a ton of problems, it sounds to me like turbine just wants to get this out of the way, whether they break to system or not... This time, I fear it may backfire on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emere
Vvy, I am begging you, on behalf of what most of music community that has tested these songs has said, please do not release the music update yet. Wait until U16, or after U16.
And with that I must apologize. Based on everyone's feedback, I really did not expect that it would be viewed as ready. After all that's been done to get to this point, and while I am still impressed with the extent of their efforts, I thought that the team would see it through to everyone's satisfaction. Sadly it fell a bit short. I hope you can get the new system to work out for your concert, though I'm sure you and the other creative minds here will find a way to make it great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emere
Lots of positives still came out of this update, and I look forward to seeing fixes for the lingering issues in the (predictably) near future. And of course, the new harp and the "new" lute. I understand the engineers probably needed to pull out to work on audio for new content, but I hope they make it back around very soon.
I am livid. I and others, put a lot of time into testing, submitting bug reports and suggestions. The whole idea behind the roll back the first time they released the new system was to balance it so there would be little need for changing our files.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erethal
Now its being pushed out early (before update 16) so we can adjust and change our files...one step forward, and two steps back.
I figured on some adjustments being needed but that was for volumes. I did not expect I was going to have to try and rebuild all my songs that use the lute as a piano or acoustic guitar. There just is no good replacement with the new system that I would use. That means downgrading those parts to the harp in the hopes it will at very least, suffice for the time being.
All said and done, it means that an estimated 80% of my song library just got tossed for the time being, until they get us a new lute that doesn't sound like a mix of two different instruments or they give us back the old lute.
I am not excited about this to say the least.
I didn't beta test anything, but from what I hear, you have every right to be, and I'm among you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emere
Well, I'm happy it's finally coming out. I feel like it's been held hostage by perfectionism long enough... it'll never be perfect but I think it's better than what was. People begged endlessly for a music system update... then when it came people complained endlessly about it. I realize these two groups may not overlap but it must be exhausting for the devs. that said, I have to admit to being impressed by some of the depth of feedback and testing that went on.
We all made do with the previous system, I think we can all manage with the new one. Overall its a great improvement and I look forward to playing with some new sounds and nuances.
There is a huge difference between perfectionism and acceptable. Agreed, it will never be perfect. Yes and no on the better than it was. I am all for the new horn which is by far more pleasing than before. That said, I am extremely unhappy I am losing my old lute. It covered many parts and the new lute I fear will not have the same versatility as the old one does. I think many solo's will die along with the old lute. I look forward to seeing how many really think its better once it goes live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuelenion
Honestly speaking, I would have been much happier if they would have just fixed the missing notes on the clarinet and horn (cough and fart as I called them), tuned the clarinet and the pingy harp string...then, gave us another octave or two. That would have done more for the music than this update will ever do.
:( Let's hope there are significant improvements between the last beta version and what goes live.
I will say thank you! Thank you for all the extreme efforts you have gone through to try and please everyone (a daunting task at best) and for all the efforts put forth on the upgrades. I liked the first set of upgrades and like these even more! The intonation and sounds used are much more pleasant, and I am thankful for the testers who helped nix some bugs. No system will be perfect, but a few may cry out no matter what is done. Please do not let that deter you! I am very much looking forward to using the upgrades with my Bandmates and to a great Weatherstock. Enjoy some Honey, Devs, courtesy of Aegthil's Fool. Honeycakes from me will be along in the Post.
Honey
I'm very excited about the upcoming music changes. We've been waiting a long time for something new and finally the time has come. I'm not worried about any little problems that come out in release. I can tell that Turbine cares about the music system, so I'm sure they'll address any bugs in future patches, certainly in time for Weatherstock. Many thanks to the dev(s) who put their time and caring into this project.
Many thanks to the development team and Turbine management for sticking with this and giving us all these enhancements to our wonderful music system. It means a great deal!
Thank you for all your hard work!!!
Verybeary
Indeed, thank you so very much for your time and effort on this. I'm looking forward to experimenting with the new system and have heard much good about it. Hobbit pies to all the devs who've worked on this!
That said, please try to add the old (existing on live now) lute back in quickly. I think that will alleviate many complaints. Some bands have focused their sound around the mellow (even sometimes muddy) acoustics of the existing lute and harp. For them, this isn't so much tweaking old files as rediscovering their sound.
We want you to know that your time and effort is much appreciated! :)
(Now, if you could raise the dance timer from 3 minutes to 8-10 minutes, I'd be tickled pink! Most songs are 3.5 minutes and up, some running 7-8 minutes, and it is a pain to have to keep restarting a dance.)
Considering that this is now being pushed on the live servers without another round of testing and actually satisfactory comments (i'm not talking perfect, i'm just talking better than the old system) I assume that we'll get our music system replaced by something that is actually not better than the old, but something we'll get along with.
I don't see any reason to be thankfull for that, it's like thanking a thief for just stealing a few of your coins instead of the whole purse....
In-tune instruments! Yay! Can't wait to get them Live :D
Thank you so very very much for sticking with this, dear developers! <3
I think part of the problem here is that sometimes people hear without listening. From reading what the Devs said in this thread and from what I heard from them during beta testing it was pretty clear to me that as soon as they fixed the dropped notes problem to their satisfaction that they were going release the new system to live and address any further issues later. We managed to work around problems in the old system I'm sure we can do the same with the new one. If you go back to what the Devs said when they first started this they also made it clear we would most likely have to make changes to our files. They said they would "try" to gives us a system that would keep those changes to a minimum but I never heard them promise that we would'nt have to make changes. At least this time we get to work with in tune instruments. At this point it seems the plan is to get the new system on live and then make tweaks to it to solve any lingering problems.
I'd like to add a big thank you to the Devs for their hard work on this and for the way they kept us updated and worked with us to fix problems. Here's hoping that the new system is a success and they will address any issues we send in bug reports on quickly.
+1 Daylak
I'm happy to take what's pushed to live and work with it, as we all did with the existing system. Frankly, I'm grateful we still have a music system and devs that worked on it to improve it.
Re-introducing the old lute soon would be nice though :)
Thanks, Vyvyanne, DarthCeltic, Ion, Sweeneybard. Any dev that worked on this issue.
We did our part is help beta test the music system w/o any expectations of payment. We just wanted to make sure the new system is as best as it can be unlike the previous release attempt.
Cmon. It's going to be ok. We'll work around it, and make sure feedback is heard. One thing for them to listen, but is another issue on what fixes in what amount of time is practical for Turbine. Be proud. We did what we could.
Can BR be brought online for a couple of days for us to make notes on how to fix our current library of songs? Sounds like it's going to be a lot of work ahead for songwriters.
Secretly hoping they reduced the lute samples by 15%, adjusted volumes snuck in during this week's internal testing. Finger's crossed.
To be honest, it wont matter to me on the volumes for the lute. It sounds horrible with the different sounds it is making. I am sure some will tolerate the odd banjo sounding twang in their songs but I do not think I will be using it until it is fixed. Until the old lute is brought back, the only thing I think I can do to salvage some of my songs is to substitute the harp and it just doesn't fit well with a good chunk of my songs. I will give it a week or so after patch for redoing a few songs I guess, but my thought process right now is to take a leave of absence until things are fixed. I just cannot justify redoing a ton of songs right now, just to have to redo them again later when we get our old lute back or a new one to replace it and there is no telling how long that will take. Those that know me know that the music is 90% of my gaming in Lotro so for me its depressing to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
Sounds like a classical case of Turbine Beta Development. You're not there to give them feedback, so that they may make adjustments, you're there only so you can see what's coming your way. It has been this way for a very long time now. Don't be surprised.
What build would 15.3 be? 15.2b8? So what was that? 4 builds in 1 month? That's some pretty fast turn around if you ask me.
Haven't you worked in a team in real life? You present your case, show proof, offer suggestions, and respect the final decision of the supervisor. You don't always get what you want. Sometimes there are reasons outside of your presentation that determines the supervisor's final decision.
But as we last left the BR testing, files were sent in, notes were still dropping on heavy songs. Bad notes were illustrated and heard by dev's.
But versus 2 feedback rounds ago, notes dropping songs were playable. It was an improvement, but definitely still over the threshold causing snap-pop.
Perfectionist? How about calling a duck for what it is; a duck. There were problems, but it was the closest to a releasable version to date using the new system.
Lute/drum volume. Yup. loud vs LIVE. Twang in lute, theo as in bad notes? Yup. still there. I could not honestly vouch for the state of affairs from the last BR test rounds. I really hope they had a good week using the test files sent in and addressed all the concerns.
They went silent for a week w/o requesting a final set of feedback. They got all the files they heard problems on.
So here comes the roll out of 15.3. Will they reduce the sample file size of lute by another 15% to help eliminate snap-pop? Will they fix the sour notes of lute / theo? Will they add more bass to the new lute in the mid to low octaves? Will they soften the attack of the new banjo like lute in the upper octaves?
I'm an optimist. I like to think when they've heard the problem first hand, have files to duplicate the problem, and was silent for a week and weekend, that they've addressed the issues from the last BR test round.
If not?
Well, let's just say the forums will be active.
I agree, that the testing went well, feedback was sent in, we spent time with the devs and they did really well to fix the dropped not issues. I really hope they did address the volumes and bad notes. I wish I could share your optimism that they will be fixed soon or have already been fixed. But from the last beta we tested, I was not in the thought that the new system was an improvement yet. We spent over four hours playing songs that last test session and of the three bands there, not one was impressed or thought it was ready. There were a few things we liked but we all agreed there was much work left to be done. I will test again when it goes live but I am in the thought that its not something I can work with and be satisfied if no further changes were made since the last beta test. I didn't want something new, I wanted something better. I don't feel we got that except with the horn. That thing is amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey