World Transfers

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Originally Posted by cdq1958

Amsterdam isn't that far away from London and a major barrier would be the Channel, so I'd think that it would be a major link or hooked to a major link between London and, say, Belgium. :) Yep, follow the money works for that, too.

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Since we don't know yet which path the packets will take and therefore not know which provider Turbine will be using it's hard to tell how high packet latency will be. A rough estimate is an additional ~70ms for the trip across the Atlantic Ocean.
Right now we in Germany experience packet latency of ~120 - 140ms (depending on type of connection and location) to the current game servers. So I guess that U.S. players can expect the same when they stick with a server that is relocated to Amsterdam.

Backbone providers usually offer maps of their network. Here is an example for Telia Sonera. They don't seem to have a direct connection from Amsterdam to the U.S.

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Originally Posted by banhorn

Ha, I never knew that! The random name generator can come up with some really awful things. I wonder how often people report randomly-generated names as violations and if support can see that a name was randomly generated?

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just a question but on that issue, with RP servers and getting a name change thing, reporting yourself and all and the result being a random name.. couldn't u just premake ure name and keep it active enough that your transferring toon gets the -1? and give yourself a free name change without a word to anyone? just wondering =P

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Originally Posted by banhorn

They seem fine unless there's some cultural reference or slang meaning I'm not getting. If I came across either of these as minor characters in a missing chapter of the trilogy, I wouldn't be wondering what was in Tolkien's pipe that day. Seeing those names in a fellowship, around town, or in an IC chat channel probably isn't going to break people's immersion. That's what the rules are essentially about.

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Well just to enlighten you about their origins, Sturmdrang is a made up abbreviation of the German term "Sturm und Drang" which in this case is supposed to associate to Germanic Mythology. Literally it means approximately "Storm and Stress", but the cultural meaning is somewhat more complex : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm_und_Drang

Anancite is my metalsmith and is the Latin word for steel or diamond. Usage seems to vary a bit.

Well I'll hazard a guess using this sites Weekly Login Information http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live.php A German Kinsite that compiles information from several websites such as Steam etc. and puts them together into very good graph content, you'll need to convert the page to English or be able to read German but I've been following the server statistics since 2014 and it looks as if the top 5 US servers according to weekly login data will be

1. Brandywine (confirmed)
2. Landroval (top 5 according to graph plus only US based RP server)
3. Gladden (has held the top 3 spot since graph point 239 which equates to around Christmas 2015 and a top 5 position since graph point 234/235 in fact Gladden according to this site held the #1 spot of weekly logins from graph point 197 to 229 approximately June to November of 2014)
4. Crickhollow holding top 4 spot since same timepoint of 234-235 Late December 2014
5. Arkenstone which has been holding the fifth spot since Late December graph point 234-235 of 2014

See graph included below. Helpful to visit the site and enlarge your browser window size to around 300%.

http://lux-hdro.de/images/live/weekly-logins-us.png

Ok it may sound silly but I ask than for those in the know...

If naming were enforced.. I know Kickman would be a change

But what about Aalderan... A jedi name and if you read his bio there is a reason he is in Middle Earth
Same with my Toon Voldeemort and Ineego Montoya.. I rp these toons when I play them to the best of my ability and try to stay in character but they do not seem to be ME rp names so would there be an issue if I moved these to a rp server.


I am trying to be as informed as possible and raise as many questions as possible so this transisition is easier for my Kin and I.

Thanks
'

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Originally Posted by banhorn

Haha, I am not THAT American to not know where Amsterdam is on a world map. I don't know where it fits into the global network topology which generally follows a combination of real world realities (e.g. oceans and intervening unfriendly countries) and business drivers like like the financial traffic between NYC and London. Where money goes, so goes faster Internet.

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Amsterdam, being right in the middle between the London, Paris, and Frankfurt financial capitals of Europe has historically had the largest Internet Exchange in the world. Right now, it occupies the #2 spot, with the Frankfurt Internet Exchange being the largest now, and the London Internet Exchange being the #3 spot in the handling of World-wide internet traffic. Up until around 2005 it actually WAS the largest internet exchange in the world, with more data-throughput than any other hub in the world. The internet infrastructure in the Netherlands is superb compared to many other countries. In comparison, the USA only holds the 5th largest internet exchange, but to be fair: The USA has MANY internet exchanges.

Because of that Amsterdam has always been attractive for data-centers that want to operate in Europe. With an equal distance to the three most powerful nations in Europe (and the nations with the most internet users), Germany, the United Kingdom and France, and being right on top of the 25 million people that live in the Netherlands/Belgium/Luxemburg region, Amsterdam is FILLED with datacenters and COVERED with huge amounts of fiber cables and bandwidth everywhere. With players from the UK, FR and DE, and servers named as such, Amsterdam is the logical geographical choice for the servers as it is exactly in the middle.

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

Sadly we do not have a way to do this. You can utilize the forums for letting folks know where your kinship has moved if you do not have private emails or a webpage. We will also be sending out-of-game emails to players as these activities take place so that we can let those who log in infrequently know to come check in on their kinships to find their destination.

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Probably is a good idea to create a thread in the forum about your kinship, new server, contact people, web page, etc. Forums are a common place for to search info when people come back.

Sergio :-)

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Originally Posted by Marancil

Which 5 would that be? We do not know yet?
Nametrolling, as we refer to it, can just be banned. If my names are older than the occurence of them on any other server that remains viable for transfer, I will insist on mine to prevail.

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How do you solve this when someone comes along 2 weeks later from another server you never played on.... and has an account/name older than yours? You just took someone's name because it was 3 months old vs your 3 years old. But then someone with the same name that has an account that is 4 years old comes along, followed 2 weeks later by someone else with an account that is 6 years old, and finally there is someone with a lifer account and a toon he made in 2007 with your name.

Should names just be allowed to be claimed, and reclaimed, and reclaimed?

How about this scenario:

You have a character named "Peter". You created it in 2011 and it is 4 years old.
You are on Server "Hobbit". Server "Hobbit" is small (pun intended) and it will close.
You are moving to server "Elf". Your name was taken there by a low level 3 toon still in the intro created 6 months ago and hasn't logged in for 5 months.
Based on your rule, you should be able to take the name "Peter" from this character and that character will be named "Peter-1".

All is well, right?

"John" has a character named "Peter" too. He created it in 2009, and it is 6 years old.
"John" is on server "Dwarf". it is also small, and it will also be closed. He chooses "Elf" as his target server.

What will happen now? Will "John" be allowed to take over your name again because his is older?

Now add in to the mix the following: Server Dwarf might be scheduled to migrate before Server Hobbit.
Or maybe the "Peter" character on the target server is only 1 year old, but level 100 and very very active.

With 19 servers closing you can't have a system where one name can trump another based on some sort of "superiority formula".

Sorry, but the closing servers will simply be on the losing end here. And yes, I will have to change the name of my main character, I already found out. So be it, it's just a name. I might just stay "Name-1" for a long time so people can add me to friends list again, and then use the naming token later.

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Originally Posted by Fratonia

Since we don't know yet which path the packets will take and therefore not know which provider Turbine will be using it's hard to tell how high packet latency will be. A rough estimate is an additional ~70ms for the trip across the Atlantic Ocean.
Right now we in Germany experience packet latency of ~120 - 140ms (depending on type of connection and location) to the current game servers. So I guess that U.S. players can expect the same when they stick with a server that is relocated to Amsterdam.

Backbone providers usually offer maps of their network. Here is an example for Telia Sonera. They don't seem to have a direct connection from Amsterdam to the U.S.

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That's true. Telia is my ISP's backbone provider. My connections pass through three to five ISP nodes before it hits them. My connection to them is in Atlanta. Packets from Atlanta also take three to five hops before they get to Boston, with a hop through NYC.

That map is interesting but busy. I couldn't enlarge it, but that's not that much of an issue. It looked to me that Amsterdam would be one hop over the Channel from London. Naturally other backbone providers have their own topology.

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Originally Posted by Draconfier

Well I'll hazard a guess using this sites Weekly Login Information http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live.php A German Kinsite that compiles information from several websites such as Steam etc. and puts them together into very good graph content, you'll need to convert the page to English or be able to read German but I've been following the server statistics since 2014 and it looks as if the top 5 US servers according to weekly login data will be

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According to that site the surviving EU servers will probably be:

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German Servers:
Belegaer        EU-DE-RP
Gwaihir                        EU-DE

English Servers:
Evernight        EU
Laurelin        EU-EN-RP

French Servers:
Estel                        FR-RP (could also be Sirannon which seems to be more active)

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To me this is the only logical solution that best covers the player base. It would have been nicer to grant each language an RP and non-RP server but the numbers seem to have more weight.


edit: Good point Maartena. The constant renaming would be an issue. That's why we have a discussion here to hear the arguments.
There is no perfect solution so let's all hope that we don't run into too many trolls that steal names just for fun. :)

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

5 US and 5 EU is correct. In our selection we will have one RP per region (EU & US) and one world per language (DE, FR and ENG).

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Sorrry but something seems very very wrong with that:
One RP-Server for the EU??? It would mean we will have French, German and English on the same single RP-Server?!?!?
If so: 1 RP-Server + 1 French + 1 German + 1 English = 4 server, not 5
If not so: 1 DE-RP + 1 DE + 1 EN-RP + 1 EN + 1 FR-RP + 1 FR = 6 servers, not 5.

Can you explain please, wat do you mean exactly?

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Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod

Sorrry but something seems very very wrong with that:
One RP-Server for the EU??? It would mean we will have French, German and English on the same single RP-Server?!?!?
If so: 1 RP-Server + 1 French + 1 German + 1 English = 4 server, not 5
If not so: 1 DE-RP + 1 DE + 1 EN-RP + 1 EN + 1 FR-RP + 1 FR = 6 servers, not 5.

Can you explain please, wat do you mean exactly?

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I saw this comment as stating that for the EU servers:

- There will be at least one server for each language.

- There will be at least one RP server in EU, but not one per language.

It is therefore likely that there is one FR server - whether that is RP or not is another matter. It could also mean that Laurelin closes if the DE RP server is more populous.

Of course, all of this is moot as in future there could well be even more server closures if the numbers don't stack up. Server numbers are not sacrosanct.

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Originally Posted by maartena

How do you solve this when someone comes along 2 weeks later from another server you never played on.... and has an account/name older than yours? You just took someone's name because it was 3 months old vs your 3 years old. But then someone with the same name that has an account that is 4 years old comes along, followed 2 weeks later by someone else with an account that is 6 years old, and finally there is someone with a lifer account and a toon he made in 2007 with your name.

Should names just be allowed to be claimed, and reclaimed, and reclaimed?

How about this scenario:

You have a character named "Peter". You created it in 2011 and it is 4 years old.
You are on Server "Hobbit". Server "Hobbit" is small (pun intended) and it will close.
You are moving to server "Elf". Your name was taken there by a low level 3 toon still in the intro created 6 months ago and hasn't logged in for 5 months.
Based on your rule, you should be able to take the name "Peter" from this character and that character will be named "Peter-1".

All is well, right?

"John" has a character named "Peter" too. He created it in 2009, and it is 6 years old.
"John" is on server "Dwarf". it is also small, and it will also be closed. He chooses "Elf" as his target server.

What will happen now? Will "John" be allowed to take over your name again because his is older?

Now add in to the mix the following: Server Dwarf might be scheduled to migrate before Server Hobbit.
Or maybe the "Peter" character on the target server is only 1 year old, but level 100 and very very active.

With 19 servers closing you can't have a system where one name can trump another based on some sort of "superiority formula".

Sorry, but the closing servers will simply be on the losing end here. And yes, I will have to change the name of my main character, I already found out. So be it, it's just a name. I might just stay "Name-1" for a long time so people can add me to friends list again, and then use the naming token later.

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All of the above plus this; the servers that are most likely to close are the smallest pop servers, meaning those that survive will have the largest and most established current communities. As this is an elective location move (you must move if you close but you get to choose where) it is extremely unlikely present communities on the smaller servers will all end up in the same place. Thus, regardless of how long YOU have had your name, to the majority of your NEW community, you will have been nameX a lesser length of time. I am on Vilya and we are likley to close. If I transfer to Lando and there is a Rhoewyn there, why should everyone on Lando familiar with THAT Rhoewyn have to relearn who Rhoewyn is? Server tenure must have name retention rights based on community continuity. Is it a hard truth for the refugees? Yes. But imagine the chaos otherwise (see the examples in the qote above.)

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

I saw this comment as stating that for the EU servers:

- There will be at least one server for each language.

- There will be at least one RP server in EU, but not one per language.

It is therefore likely that there is one FR server - whether that is RP or not is another matter. It could also mean that Laurelin closes if the DE RP server is more populous.

Of course, all of this is moot as in future there could well be even more server closures if the numbers don't stack up. Server numbers are not sacrosanct.

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on Laurelin there are people from multiple euro countries and many NA people so that should make it bigger than DE-RP. Also, I bet many on Laurelin don't understand german. So that would make Belegaer a bad choice. My guess? keep Laurelin as rp server, and all Others migrate to it. Perhaps, perhaps the DE-RP might stay open, with the EN-RP

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

Of course, all of this is moot as in future there could well be even more server closures if the numbers don't stack up. Server numbers are not sacrosanct.

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This might turn into a disaster and drive even more people away especially if they are forced to play on foreign language servers. Someone from UK may not have a problem with a U.S. based server because they speak the same language (mostly ;) ) but try to get a Frenchman to speak German or English. They will not be happy...

Also with todays virtualization options there is a decreasing need for bare metal in data centers. If your server is able to run 10 virtual machines now it can still run these virtual machines in the future especially if the capacity requirements of these virtual machines decrease together with your player base.

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Originally Posted by Fratonia

This might turn into a disaster and drive even more people away especially if they are forced to play on foreign language servers. Someone from UK may not have a problem with a U.S. based server because they speak the same language (mostly ;) ) but try to get a Frenchman to speak German or English. They will not be happy...

Also with todays virtualization options there is a decreasing need for bare metal in data centers. If your server is able to run 10 virtual machines now it can still run these virtual machines in the future especially if the capacity requirements of these virtual machines decrease together with your player base.

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It's what's on those VMs that takes up the cost & effort rather than just overseeing some flashing lights of 1U server in a few racks :) Hence why 29 game worlds results in 29-sets of maintenance, code deployment & debugging activities rather than the 10 we will be getting. Either way, it is going to be a lot cheaper to run.

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

I saw this comment as stating that for the EU servers:

- There will be at least one server for each language.

- There will be at least one RP server in EU, but not one per language.

It is therefore likely that there is one FR server - whether that is RP or not is another matter. It could also mean that Laurelin closes if the DE RP server is more populous.

Of course, all of this is moot as in future there could well be even more server closures if the numbers don't stack up. Server numbers are not sacrosanct.

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Whatever server is chosen to be the RP server, it will need to lose its language designation, so Laurelin changes from EU-EN-RP to EU-RP, or Belegaer from EU-DR-RP to EU-RP. The remaining servers could then be designated EU-EN,EU-FR, EU-DE and simply EU (as a language neutral server). As others have pointed out, it might make more sense to retain Laurelin, even if it's smaller than Belegaer, as it already has a polyglot culture, and could present fewer assimilation problems than moving all RP players into what has previously been a relatively monoglot server.

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Originally Posted by elvenes

on Laurelin there are people from multiple euro countries and many NA people so that should make it bigger than DE-RP. Also, I bet many on Laurelin don't understand german. So that would make Belegaer a bad choice. My guess? keep Laurelin as rp server, and all Others migrate to it. Perhaps, perhaps the DE-RP might stay open, with the EN-RP

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Don't disagree with your assessment, just I am being very careful not to get my own hopes raised that Laurelin will survive the cut - me being a glass-half-empty sort of fella and all that!

Oh, indeed :) As said many times in the thread, in the end all we can do is speculate until next week

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

Don't disagree with your assessment, just I am being very careful not to get my own hopes raised that Laurelin will survive the cut - me being a glass-half-empty sort of fella and all that!

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In the end the glass is neither half empty or half full - it is merely the wrong size glass!

I'd hate to put all this speculation 'off the boil', but as much as population is a prime candidate to be a significant consideration for Turbine/WB, let me suggest one that might well trump it, and one that we have no clue about - net revenue per server. While it could be expected that a very-high-pop server like Brandy should also generate better revenue numbers, it's quite possible that a 'lower' population server, even one of the lowest, might generate more revenue than one of the 'top 5' populated servers. Since the population estimates we have available get very tight at about #4, the last couple of 'under the wire' servers could easily be a surprise.

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Originally Posted by Boskone08

I'd hate to put all this speculation 'off the boil', but as much as population is a prime candidate to be a significant consideration for Turbine/WB, let me suggest one that might well trump it, and one that we have no clue about - net revenue per server. While it could be expected that a very-high-pop server like Brandy should also generate better revenue numbers, it's quite possible that a 'lower' population server, even one of the lowest, might generate more revenue than one of the 'top 5' populated servers. Since the population estimates we have available get very tight at about #4, the last couple of 'under the wire' servers could easily be a surprise.

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Indeed, but I doubt that either of my two main worlds remains open.

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Originally Posted by Rhoewyn

All of the above plus this; the servers that are most likely to close are the smallest pop servers, meaning those that survive will have the largest and most established current communities.

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I suspect that they will also consider relative server load (averages and peaks in number crunching). I believe the size of population does not directly affect server load. (If I understand it correctly, account records are stored elsewhere, and are accessed and loaded by the game servers only while the characters are logged in or when the game servers need to fetch data about one that is not.) Even logged-in population levels do not necessarily correspond to load levels, as some activities create much higher load than others. (For example, one character who executes a lot of milestone skills probably creates more load than six characters who are just standing idle. However, I do not know how much of that processing is client-side rather than server-side.)

For load balancing, they may seek to eliminate those worlds that have the largest amount of unutilised processing capacity.

Granted, this is assuming that the worlds either have separate processors, such as if they are distinct servers, or are virtual servers that are assigned equal quotas of workspace on a shared physical server. If, on the other hand, the worlds all share the the same physical hardware and may be scaled individually on-demand, then avoiding breaking up active communities may indeed be the primary consideration.

Ok so catching up on the thread since I headed out last night. Here are some additional clarifications:

1. Are we keeping the most active servers? In some cases, yes. The intention is to move the least amount of players while maintaining some of the more specialized environments.

2. Does the Kinship disband when the Kinleader moves? Yes, it does. This means all messaging to players should be through in-game mail and forums before leaving the world. We can set mail to last longer on the closing worlds (6 months) so that those who log in after the kinleader moves, but before the worlds become unavailable can receive mail on destination target.

3. What happens to a bound item in a Kinhouse from a character that has been deleted or already transferred? Items in this case will be deleted as the owner of the item no longer exists so there is no location to assign that item. If the Kinleader moves before the owner of the bound item moves and the owner has not been deleted, then the item will be placed in the owner's housing escrow account.

4. Transfer of Reaver (or other Monster characters): You can have multiples of one type in cases of transfer of monster characters. In this case you should find a small drop down arrow next to that monster type that will give you a selection of Reavers (or other types) to choose from.

5. Can I transfer to multiple worlds while in the free transfer period? Yes. There is no limitation to the number of transfers you can do. Once the transfers between the remaining 10 are no longer free, however, you will have to pay to move between them.

6. Can you grant more character slots? We are now looking into adding 2 free character slots to all Premium and VIP accounts. We will also have a sale on character slots.

7. Why not do names purely on seniority? A few posters have explained the complication of this already. We had to come up with a solution that would work for Transfers going forward. Going off a seniority based system would result in active players always risking that their name could be changed at any point, not just when they transferred. No solution was perfect. We went with an option that will help free up a number of names for players transferring in, while not disturbing the players who are already there and actively playing the game.

-Vyv

awesome =) sounds more positive to me. While I figure those with a mass bunch of toons would appreciate more than 2.. it's definately a good thing it's being considered to add something
hugs =)