Introducing the 2013 LOTRO Player Council

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Originally Posted by Elrantiri

I've been wondering a bit on how Turbine picked out people for this Council, and reading two of the succesful applications did not help me.



As much as it's inspiring, the Player Council application page has the following:


None of the points below contain the question "Why do I want to participate in the Player Council?", so basically this applicant didn't do as specified for the PC application yet got accepted.

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I too felt a bit dismayed when I saw this kind of example application because it made me feel my own was lacking as all I did was follow the directions. However I do believe that this person will do a good job - my disappointment is not about him at all. It is more about realizing that I too could have painted a much clearer picture of myself had I coloured outside the lines a bit more.

I think these people will do just fine and probably pretty well at continuing to think outside the box and communicating in a way that the people at Turbine respond to.

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Originally Posted by Isharra

I too felt a bit dismayed when I saw this kind of example application because it made me feel my own was lacking as all I did was follow the directions. However I do believe that this person will do a good job - my disappointment is not about him at all. It is more about realizing that I too could have painted a much clearer picture of myself had I coloured outside the lines a bit more.

I think these people will do just fine and probably pretty well at continuing to think outside the box and communicating in a way that the people at Turbine respond to.

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Always, I say Always, think outside the box.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

This thread is rapidly becoming one very long list of violations of multiple policies.

Before anyone posts again I suggest considering one thing: If your name were on that list would you be spotlessly, unreproachably 'perfect' in the eyes of every last player on your server and in the forums. Not one person could say a single negative thing about you? If that is not true, I suggest you consider what might be posted about you in their situation.

This is also the only comment I'll make about violations. From here out, they'll simply be addressed as per the guidelines and rules known by all.

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I'm sure we all live in houses made of varying amounts of glass, but if I can hazard a guess at one of the types of posts that you're considering to be a violation, it'd be the posts calling certain people's qualifications as a certain type of player into question.

If I hold myself out as an expert on (or even knowledgeable about) something, is it not fair for others to use facts to dispute my claim?

If I were to claim to be able to represent the solo PvMPer, would it not be fair for people to ask to see my war tab and, upon seeing it, point out that my kills/KB ratio is most definitely not that of a solo PvMPer and thus say that, although my intentions may be good, it is very likely that I am not qualified to speak knowledgeably about that subject?

I am aware that we're not allowed to call people out by name on these forums, but if a person willingly steps up and says, "look at me, I speak for you," what sense does it make to allow that person to make such a claim unchallenged? To my mind, anyone who purports to represent a certain portion of players forfeits the usual forum protection against singling out someone, because he has chosen to single himself out.

In short, while none of us are perfect, I think it only fair that we be allowed to assess, evaluate, and even criticize (as warranted) those who claim expertise or to represent certain populations.

Once again adjusted for eligibility.

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Originally Posted by Glumposneak

Maybe you need to make it clear to the council members?

To quote a thread in the Withywindle server section made by Toffeecake, thread called "Withywindle player council"

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There are other council members as well. I have made it known a few times that I am available for contact to the whole player base. PM me, post on suggestion forums or PvMP forums (as that is my main focus area), I typically hit the "new posts" link at least 8 or 9 times a day. I would also be more than happy to chit chat with you.

I'm pretty sure Toffee did not mean for his thread to be Withywindle only. Will people be more inclined to chit chat with the people on their server? Probably, just because of the personal connection.

I will challenge the council members to remember to check the forums constantly and to not forget about those outside of their own server :)

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Originally Posted by Wartober

Far as I'm concerned, so long as the guy - zanishi/doppleganger - who apparently called himself for the longest time the "godfather of farming" is on this council, it has zero credibility.

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If you are uncomfortable speaking with him regarding pvp because of farming, contact on of the other PVPers.

Myself
Grimmjaw

would be more than happy to take your suggestions and concerns

/wear Dwarven Asbestos Pants of the Second Age

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Originally Posted by Lestache

"look at me, I speak for you,"

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"Look at me, I speak not for you but for the better of the game." (a Feist reference there :))

During my tenure on the Council I will voice my personal opinions and concerns regarding subjects that Turbine bring to my (the Council's) attention. I will also prowl the "Suggestions", "Skirmishes, Instances and Raids", and the "Rune-Keeper" forums (possibly others as well but my time is limited and I cannot be everywhere) for ideas that catch my attention.

From this it is quite obvious that my contribution to the Council will be restricted to those areas of the game in addition to whatever Turbine asks of me. I know I don't think exactly like my Rune-Keeper brethren but it would be a personal failure if I could not look upon all suggestions in an objective manner. A good idea is a good idea even if I personally don't like it. Progress comes from constructive dialogue, not from dictatorship.

I don't PvMP, does that mean I cannot come with constructive feedback on subjects related to PvMP? It might even be that my unbiased eyes will see problems/solutions that a true-breed PvMP player does not. He or she may be too locked into their preconceptions to be able to "look outside the box".

Maybe a Hunter revamp suggestion becomes a minor change rather than a complete overhaul just because the "Hunter Councillors" thinks pen-shot spam is da thang. "Don't touch my pen-shot, it's the only way to do good DPS". Maybe it requires a non-Hunter to help them see a different point of view?

Even given the short period of time the Council has been active I've seen the incredible spread of view points that 75 players represent.

Disclaimer: We, the Council members, may at no point in time disclose, either through direct or indirect means, anything that is being handled by the Council. Our necks (and accounts) are on the line and Sapience et all will not give us any slack on this. Please respect this! We may want to tell you that things will be better (or worse) but we are not allowed to do so. We can only work within the limits of the framework given to us by Turbine.

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Originally Posted by Delmore

If you are uncomfortable speaking with him regarding pvp because of farming, contact on of the other PVPers.

Myself
Grimmjaw

would be more than happy to take your suggestions and concerns

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This is avoiding the issue though.

If I'm the brand new owner/GM/whatever of a sports team, and I hire Victor Conte as a member of the teams medical staff, I've thrown the credibility of my hiring process, that staff, and really the entire organization out the window.

Maybe next round of the player council will include this guy (or gal):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=rkIIAqS_M-4

I personally don't see much of a difference.

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Originally Posted by Raven-EU

Even given the short period of time the Council has been active I've seen the incredible spread of view points that 75 players represent.

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Personally, I'd like to see the next names announced be the last changes that have to be made for a while. Showing signs of some stability would help with player confidence in the whole system.

(By my reckoning we're at 73 active reps again).

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Originally Posted by Raven-EU

Even given the short period of time the Council has been active I've seen the incredible spread of view points that 75 players represent.

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"Wouldn't it be a real drag if we were all the same." -Savoy Brown

Call me skeptical but I think the purpose of the player council is not what a lot of people are thinking it its. Reciently they removed I think it was 1500 items from the store. That means that someone spent time designing the item and adding it to the store but it did not sell enough to remain there. I dont think the player council is to "represent" how the game should be developed but rather "council" the developers on how the players will react to items being added to the game and store.

They may sound like the same thing but they really arent. They are looking for feedback early in the development cycle to prevent the uproars that happened when they added the lvl 20 stated armor or the manquines.

What the players want
Developer "For the next update we have 1000 hours of art time, 500 hours of content design time, 600 hours of engineering time. What are the top three things you would like us to spend the time one?"
PC member 1 " I would like to see the majority of the art time used to design housing items, the content time to add a new multi boss raid and the engineering time to improve the lag in cities.
PC member 2 " I would like to see the majority of the art time used to add new land mass, the content design time to add new quests for lvl 52 -56 players so I dont have to go into Moria and the engineering time to improve the issues with mounted combat."


What Turbine wants
Developer "We are thinking of adding flying mounts to the stiore, what do you think of this idea?
PC member 1 " thats against lore and they should not be added. I will leave the game if you add them."
PC member 2 "Yawn, I dont care, I PvMP and since mounts cant be used in the Moors it has no effect on me."


Why have the NDA if they are just providing feed back on where the player base wants to see the game go. NDA is very much needed if they are providing feedback on items that the developers suggest get added to the game but then deside not to add do to negative feedback.

My congratulations have already gone to those Player Council members I followed on Twitter. Now it looks like the list is possibly complete, I should like to say a big, 'Gratz!' to all those chosen.

We certainly are living in interesting times, which is both a blessing and a challenge. May all of you on the Players Council and all the Turbine folk you come in contact with inspire one another. I hope you enjoy your time in the Council and I, for one, am very interested in your input, the effect that you have and the communication that results.

Kate AKA Acushla

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Originally Posted by Landrovas

Maybe the godfather of farming can offer input on all ways to farm and cheat in order to implement anti farm measures.... Or not ....

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As it stands now, this thread is inappropriate for talk about me. If people have questions about farming I will take them all when you create a thread directed to me to respond to in the monster play forum.

As for the other hooplah... my playstyle is my choice... to dictate how i should play is not yours to make... The council is something I think with a wide enough range of playstyles most unlike my own... can find a way to let everyone enjoy the game that they pay to play...

Anything else said toward me here will be ignored...


THE GOG HAS SPOKEN!

Sapience,

May I ask why the Council Member with a Level 43 Hunter, which he has admitted had not been played nor leveled in 4+ years is the character we are supposed to recognize for this Council Member?

How do we relate to a stagnant character from SoA?

I thought the Council and the use of the character names were supposed to provide transparency?

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Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie

Sapience,

May I ask why the Council Member with a Level 43 Hunter, which he has admitted had not been played nor leveled in 4+ years is the character we are supposed to recognize for this Council Member?

How do we relate to a stagnant character from SoA?

I thought the Council and the use of the character names were supposed to provide transparency?

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As I have pointed out several times over the years, the character in my Sig is not the only character I have, it's the character I've chosen to keep prominent and public. I, as a person, am not the character that I play and therefor having a character shown here is not indicative of my experience and knowledge of this game.

As for transparency of the names, the application provided the option to chose which character you wanted to be known by and I chose the one that has been in my signature since they went live. Honestly, there's no reason for me to give out the names of my other characters.

I also would appreciate if you stop trying to 'defame' me because you have a bias against me. I never once stated anything that you claim that I have other than my attempt to keep the character at level 42.

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Honestly, there's no reason for me to give out the names of my other characters.

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I can't think why! Think of all the lovely tells you'll receive <3

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Originally Posted by DarkCntry

I, as a person, am not the character that I play and therefor having a character shown here is not indicative of my experience and knowledge of this game.

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But we have no evidence to suggest you have any experience. Imagine how great it would be if I explained to a prospective employer that my lack of a medical degree or no past employment record is NOT an indicator of my ability to perform brain surgery.

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Originally Posted by DarkCntry

As for transparency of the names, the application provided the option to chose which character you wanted to be known by and I chose the one that has been in my signature since they went live.

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According to Turbine, they selected players to represent a large range of playstyles. By giving them an account of a low level hunter, then later claiming you have others of a different style suggests you misrepresented yourself on the application. The term for that is fraud. lol

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Originally Posted by DarkCntry

Honestly, there's no reason for me to give out the names of my other characters.

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According to alt finder your hunter is the only character on your account. You therefore feel the need to use an alt account to communicate with and represent the community.

Imagine if I tried to close a big deal while wearing a batman costume, and then explained to my client that "I did not feel it pertinent to share my identity with you." Knowledge builds trust. Why should I trust anyone who feels compelled to hide behind an alternate account?

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Originally Posted by DarkCntry

I also would appreciate if you stop trying to 'defame' me because you have a bias against me.

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Why are you taking it so personally? He brought up a good point. You chose to represent yourself with that identity ... then are offended when someone asks if that is appropriate?

Imagine walking into your wife's surgery to find a man dressed in a complete clown suit about to begin cutting into her. You then ask, what is he doing here? And he replies: "I am the world's greatest Doctor. How dare you! Why would you "defame" (lol, dramatic) me like that?" Is it your fault the doctor came dressed a clown?

Given this thread has become little more than a small number of players openly harassing, and frankly trolling, members of the council in direct violation of a the community guidelines and other Turbine policies I think it's time to close this thread.