Remember we didn't have any sustained self healing at first...Quote:
Originally Posted by Litreb
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Remember we didn't have any sustained self healing at first...Quote:
Originally Posted by Litreb
Redline has warriors heart, catch a breath and honorable combat available to it with minimal effort right now so Pledge is a defensive skill too many for a line that has competitive ST DPS. It's doing a lot better than most ST DPS lines in terms of self healing, it'll still be doing better than most even if they move pledge deeper into blue and Warriors Heart was removed from red entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Litreb
Honourable combat is useless in its current state. WH has a 2 min cd. Remove HC and replace with increased crit or dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
Dont you think the game has evolved a bit since those days ????Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
Yeah. Class has significantly stronger damage than back then also significantly stronger self healing than back then so what's the issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Litreb
I'm sorry but as someone who has been maining a Guard since day 1 with the purpose of tankimg I cannot get behind changes that affect it for the worst in my opinion. The reasons for this are aa follows:
1.I cannot trust you guys with making changes to complex mechanics such as tanking. I hope that you will take the necessary time to make sure the changes applied will work appropriately(fingers crossed) but I just cannot forget Helm's Deep launch when force taunts were broken and tanking guards were left scrambling to understand why such changes to a perfectly functional tanking process were made.
2.The premise of tanking through DPS with increased multipliers on skills is plainly put not as enjoyable as pre Helm's Deep guardian tanking was. I and many others enjoy tanking now as well but its nothing compared to what it was before. If you want to steer the class away from relying on Force Taunts(which we have been asking for a long time) then pre Helm's Deep guardian is the way to go.
3.Nerfing challenge targets alongside a general nerf to AoE targets will hurt tanking a substantially. The community will simply adjust by looking for the next class that tank masses of mobs reliably (warden). In order to make instanced content more reliant on double tanks, changes need to be made on the instance first and only THEN on the classes.
4. I don't like the fact that AoE targets is being removed from the unimbued LI. If you want to make people rely less on unimbued Lis then make it so you cannot switch Lis, in combat(as others have mentioned). Also make Imbued Lis more attractive. Guardian tanking weapon is a complete joke, totally abandoning superior tanking legacies such as Guardians Ward duration for more DPS legacies?
If you are so inclined on nerfing challenge however I have a few changes to propose that would mediate the nerf much better than steering us towards more dps based threat(yikes):
a)Give us back pre Helm's Deep Shield of Fire trait(increased threat from Shield Taunt + increased targets)
b)Make Vexing Blow generate additional threat once again(one of the skills driven to obsoletion in terms of tanking with Helm's Deep)
c)Pre Helm's Deep Litany of Defiance. Once literally the vanguard of Guardian tanking, driven into total obsoletion with Helm's Deep changes. Truly one of the saddest changes made to Guardian tanking.
Oh and one more thing, the current number of targets on AoE skills.is.laughable. You cannot expect us to tank AoE with a nerfed force taunt and 5 targets on many melee skills. Although its left to be seen how it's going to work, I would be surprised if Guardians don't start to struggle with a healer's aggro on any pull including more than 5-6 mobs.
(Original post by a genius, I support it 100% and frankly just want tanking to be fun and respected again)
Unsure if this has been stated elsewhere, but seems a couple pretty important bugs:
@Vastin: Insult to Injury (Yellow Line first trait on the left) appears to be bugged with it's interactions with Terrible Wound. When traited it appears to refresh Terrible Wound and it doing so eliminates Terrible Wound's chance to Crit.
This seems to be why there were people who thought Terrible Wound itself was bugged earlier in the thread, and were incredulous about a Guard having a normal-ish Crit rate (25-30%) on it compared to the 10%-ish that other Guards were experiencing. Parses are significantly different without that bug, obviously. ;)
Radiate also seems to be bugged in that it seems to spread a Terrible Wound that is 1/5th the strength of the original Terrible Wound, and you can then spread that lesser Terrible Wound back to your main target.
EDIT: Kasius/Drizz already had conveyed this on the Guardian forums. He told me to post it a few days ago, but I hadn't gotten around to it. xD
I have a fix en-route for the Terrible Wound/Radiate interaction (TW shouldn't be radiating at all).Quote:
Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour
Not sure if this is related to the crit bug or not. If that doesn't clear up with the radiate change I'll have to take another look at it.
TW and HW are both being reduced a bit, as they are a tad OP, but I'm also buffing Sweeping Cut and I have a fix for Honorable Combat coming in the same set.
-Vastin
What about the missing target on Shield-Taunt and Shield-Smash? They're both missing 1. Speaking of Shield-Taunt, it could use more targets on itself, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Shield-Taunt doesn't benefit from War-chants demoralizing anthem trait.
Can we also get any actual numbers on how big the nerfs are? 20%? 30%?
Also, Insult to Injury refreshes bleeds. Is that intended to happen? Or a leftover from past.
Thanks for the changes to Guardian.
I'd like to cast my vote in favor of Incoming Healing becoming the new passive bonus on Guardian belts.
Just making note that I bypass the 'crit' bug by not traiting Insult to Injury, so it would seem that it is related to that trait. Insult to Injury traited = 10-15% Crit on Terrible Wound (max). Untraited (still 1 rank in Radiate tho, because I have to) 25-35% Crit on Terrible Wound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
This is the simplest solution to "what to do with Shield Use Rank", IMO. Just give Guards the bonus Champs get from their Rune (Incoming Healing at max rank = 9460).Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgimli
Incoming healing as passive is bad for guardians. We do not need more free stats. Getting that amount of incoming healing passively just means there is not very much needed that stats to be slotted. Bad move that would be. We should build our stats, not get awarded them free.
Imo way better idea would be to tie it to shield skills critical rating. That way guardian would have access to more critical hits with shield skills while tanking, thus increasing aggro potential.
Most tanking classes get free stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
I don't think anyone asks for 29k inc healing softcap or smth.....
A small ammount would be nice to have.
Something to help with threat would be nice too though.
Currently, there aren't any problems holding aggro anyway. Especially if you have a swap trait tree for Improved Shield Spikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
And I don't want guardians being part of that crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazabooboo
Emm, what i have to do with my light damage legacy now?Quote:
War Chant now does physical damage.
Could you please stop making legacies irrelevant\broken?
Adjust them according to changes before it goes live. LIVE IS NOT BETA. Can we have some quality of life?
Hopefully Vastin can shed some light as to why this change was made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddharta
Still waiting on max targets issue though...
About war chant : does the legacy of light damage continue to be useful with this physical damage, or does it become useless ?
I have already reported many class-related bugs and they haven't been fixed, so this time I am going to post here:
- Warrior's Heart: Warrior's Fortitude trait cancels itself when it is equipped in addition to a trait of same name from another line. Example: If I equip Blue Line Warrior's Fortitude + Yellow Line Warrior's Fortitude, I get no benefit from either one of them.
- Some skills apply their effects only after the skill enters cooldown. Result: If you're stunned while you activate a certain skill, that skill will enter cooldown without applying its effect. Example: Thrill of Danger morale restore.
- If this is intentional, it was not mentioned in the release notes: Radiate no longer applies to bleeds.
- The Mitigation Buff Proc from "Bolster" is never triggered.
- "Bring On The Pain" isn't applied to partial hits
- Thrill of Danger can be avoided by enemies, even though it doesn't deal damage or steal power from mobs (It only heals your character's morale and power, based on how many mobs are close to you).
That one is indeed intentional. Humorously it was never supposed to radiate bleeds in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiogoVP
If it is intentional, the tooltip of the trait should be changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
Heh. Looks like the tooltip is both right and wrong right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiogoVP
Ya, the tooltip should be specific about it being non damaging debuffs only. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
Hello,
could be possible to wear shield at my back while I have no thread, instead of all time left handed?
Thx for response.
TIVL
To @Vastin:
With update 22.3, still no use for shield use rank, why? :(
The trait "Reactive parry" does extremely weak damage, please scale or replace with something useful.
Guards have some traits and abilities crit-based, but unless other classes, we don't have a + % crit trait. We only have a clunky and costly trait in yellow (Tenderize) that gives only +2.X % in combat after 5 parries, but is lost if you use Sting. Please give us a plain %crit trait, and/or remove sting cashout of tenderize as you already did with Bolster.
Thrill of Battle trait is useless. It was weak even without the internal cooldown. Red guards don't need more heal sources, replace it with something usefull (maybe crit?)
For a capstone trait, Prey on the Weak is very weak damage, it needs a boost. Increase magnitude, or make it not crit-based, or working on any damage done on a bleeding enemy (any guard bleed).
Terrible wound could get a slight boost, it consistently falls behind slashing and haemorraghic wound in parses (at least for me).
I want to thank you for the revamp of guard red line, very well done. If only this remaining issues are addressed, red guards will be in an excellent spot now and for the future!