See, I'm not so sure about that. Unless nerfs are coming (possible), I don't think freeps will gain any appreciable edge in the next update.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherGab
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See, I'm not so sure about that. Unless nerfs are coming (possible), I don't think freeps will gain any appreciable edge in the next update.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherGab
New freep rad pvp armour=more numbersQuote:
Originally Posted by Jamers
Nerf to creep morale=less ez mode flippers on creepside.
Weavers needing a ranged slow is one of the dumbest ideas iv heard in a long while
Im sorry your, what did i see rank 10?
Learn to play your weaver maybe
Dev crits on skills are so relevant to class discussion! HAHA. Joke-post, move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherGab
I have a lot of respect for Bashel and Luc, i respect your opinion and i understand that yes the weaver is not a underpower classe, but i dont think it is overpower.
Im surpise to see that a weaver can haver more armor than a champs, cause im sur the weaver is the creeps that have less armour in all creep classe. However, the champs DPS is way stronger than the weaver do. And the champs have an AOE stunt, hmm i think he got 2 and one of them can AOE stunt for 10 sec! Instant cast. Thats an amzing skill, il trade my WTE for that anny time.
Most of the champs run in fervour but IMO this is not good agains weaver.
Anny way this is not a tread for weaver agains champion, i know some champs i cannot beat 1vs1 and some that cannot beat me and they think the weaver is OP.
See i have trouble 1 vs 1 the RK but i never said they was the should be nerf, im trying some defferent build and tactic to fight them, its chalenging to fight a RK with a weaver. Some classe are bether agains some other and you alwes have an enemy that will give more difficulity. For me its the RK, LM and mini. Certain guardian can be a pain too, they hit like a truck and have a lot of survavibility and sprint, SNARE .. lol
Anny way im not asking here for an OP skill, but i dont mind if the weaver stay like it is right now, its good classe as it is right now. I apreciate all the good opinion that was positive or agains that idea.
But i still think that as a CC and DOT classe like the describe about weaver is saying, the Root could be more hard to break and or changing WTE like Tar and give a ranged slow. AT HIGHT RANK, yes, more ranked is a creep, more stronger he should be. And freeps to should get somthing from ranking.
EDIT: i may be rong from creating this post and im sry about it, i idnt want to make people geting mad and i wasent mad when i created it, maybe the title is not well appropriate, it is juste a subject i wanted to talk about. Some people are saying bad things and are insulting me, well im not gonna insulte you anny way, thats not my goal.
I find it hilarrious that a LM with a 2s induction 30s slow that can have up to a 35s bleed if the LM is smart is saying this is a dumb idea... personally at this point id take the same cd as the lm.. make it 2.5s induction and only -20% run speed for 30s on my spider... and id my my wte a 1s induction for that other slow :)
Edit: Heya Evilspinnre long time no see
Don't apologize for the thread, Tip. This is a place to discuss ideas, after all! I just simply don't agree with you on this one, but my opinion doesn't count for more than that of anyone else!Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-pere3
/salute
I'd like to see you say that to me after fighting me solo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fladrif
I fail to see how we cannot at least get something worthwile at rank ELEVEN. Yes the huge influx of weavers will ranged slows will imbalance the moors! LoL.
I don't get it. Why do the stupid threads get tons of replies, yet the well-reasoned threads with good ideas only get a few replies?
It's hard to troll a solid idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brongdha
i'm sure every LM would agree with you provided they could have a +10% in/out combat runspeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by striker383
the idea of having a ranged slow is interesting to me. theres allot of cases where it would come in handy but could also make the class very op. it would have to add some kind of induction to the skill otherwise it would be way to powerful in a 1v1 having 2 instant cast slows though a burning embers like(though not able to crit for 1500+) slow seems good to me since lm's have that along with more then double our cc both single and aoe.
also for the whole spiders aren't squishy cuz they have more armor b/p/e then champs is a total bs argument all creeps have higher defensive stats to make up for the difference in dps that freeps do.how many 65 freeps have been 1 shotted by a creep vs how many creeps have been 1 shotted by a freep im willing to bet its more then 1000 creeps 1 shot for every 1 freep that was 1 shot(and i really doubt it has EVER happened to a 65 freep unless they had no traits and were totally naked and got hit by a fluke dev crit vt.freeps have the better dps so creeps have the defence to try to balance things . i would gladly trade my spiders defensive stats with a lm's if i could also get my lm's dps and aoe cc/damage ability. in fact i wouldn't mind actually having the dps of my lv 40 champ since his normal attacks do more damage then my spiders dev crits
We do very nice DPS for a 'non-DPS' class. Try traiting for some damage. Tainted Kiss is incredibly powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisanewname
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by Jamers
Every class can say they 'want' a certain skill. Weavers don't 'need' a ranged slow
exactly - That and WTE are huge advantages for weaversQuote:
Originally Posted by Viloxus
STOP THE INSANITY. how about ranged fm's for freeps in return? or maybe a boost to incombat run speed to those freeps without one. Go away you OP EZ moders.
Or Maybe All Freeps Should Have A Bpe Value Regardless Of Class.
He likely does, and I'd certainly put his understanding of the weaver class at the top of the Landy scale. A server that has historically had very strong weavers. Don't let his displayed rank decieve you. He was one of Landy's highest ranked Weavers before deleting his toon. This is his second time through the ranks.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherGab
Regardless. I can see absolutely zero reason for the weaver to be considered squishy enough to merit a ranged snare. There's just no real reason for it.
Weavers can do damage and cc from range. That more than makes up for any relative squishyness.
There isn't a better kiting class on EITHER side of the fence. Nor is there a better overall support class creepside.
I like your Weaver Foe title....I'm still trying to get my Tier 1 slayer deed for the Freep tanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Thane9
Luc, dont you think a RK can kite juste like a spider and maybe bether? AOE mez, single stunt, ranged slow, bether DPS. ??
Mini are not bad too stunt every time they shout and crit for around 1500dmg, the other AOE can crits for a nother 1500dmg, all range 40m instant cast on the move. And it already appen to me, and im using the R2 crit protection.
LM, i dont need to talk about LM they dont need to kit they juste dont need to move at all they can cast anny thing behind them. And aslo a ranged slow 40m range for most of there skill.
Spider is a good kiter but i will not place it on the top liste. They are not bad, but not the best.
No class that I'm aware of has both an in-combat run speed buff and a ranged snare. I've had some of the same issues that you have with seeming inconsistencies between the skills a character has and other skills.
My burglar for instance, while Bleeds are not his sole damage dealing aspect, I had to remember not to bleed my target before CC'ing them. Sometimes a CC is for a rest, so I can pop a pot, regen some, or reset some of my skills for better deployment.
Trying to disable movement while also trying to damage is 'your tactic' working against you, not the class. You just have to adjust tactics, and sometimes there's no I win button. Sometimes another class stomps you because they can better exploit your classes weaknesses than another.
Personally from what I've seen, Weavers are strong despite those weaknesses, and people who are very good at playing Weavers are good because they know their class limitations and then learn to put you in a position where they are strong.
Edit: Personally I believe WtE works well with the Weaver because it is more of a Hybrid melee/ranged than a true ranged class, and therefore they shouldn't have a ranged snare option.
Someone else said this, and I concur, that a ranged snare for the weaver would have to entail giving up something in exchange....IF (and it's a big if) such a change/addition was to be considered.
That was why I suggested that some trait a weaver could slot (at the expense of a class trait slot) available after rank 9, would convert the AOE root into an AOE snare.
I might be willing to trade the aoe root for an aoe snare...however, I wouldn't jump into giving up a core skill of my CC without significant consideration....which tells me that in calculating the value of an aoe snare and my aoe root, both are close (at least in my own mind) in value. (relative to what I may have to give up or not give up)
Even if I were to be presented w/the snare instead of the AOE root, I'd have a tough choice as to what class trait slot I'd have to give up in order to slot the snare class trait as I proposed...then I'd have a tough choice deciding if it was worth giving up a trait slot AND my aoe root (which doesn't require a trait slot to be burned currently).
There would be no doubt that I'd try it, but whether I stuck with the snare over the root...not sure..I could see myself switching back and forth for more situational flexibility...which is really the true appeal to adding something like a ranged slow for me...the flexibility to change my 'loadouts'.
I disagree because in the current environment of DR, an AOE snare is A LOT more valuable than an AOE root. This choice would be a no-brainer and this trait would become "must slot".Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
I do not think weavers need a ranged snare at this time.
Spiders: WtE is better than anything a RK has to kite with. WtE CANNOT be b/p/e, CANNOT be resisted, CANNOT be Potted. It allows you to gain plenty of distance to where spider DPS will kill the target. Not to mention a CJ starter (on a seperate DR which means this will take full effect) and +10% incombat run speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-pere3
On top of that...you have a root, aoe root, a mez, a stun.
RKs: well...distracting winds can be resisted and only 5-10m range I think. Chilling rhetoric can be resisted and potted (removed completely). All that is left is a stun (which has a % chance to proc), and two melee mezzes. Weren't you the one crying about CC earlier cuz of DR making it not effective, so why even try to claim it as effective CC now?
Spiders >> Kiting ability than RKs.
I disagree. Saying it is a no-brainer is simply silly. There are a great number of situations where AOE root >>> AOE snare. Once you learn different effective tactics it will start to make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sezneg
Can you pot out of an AoE snare? Yes, it is a no-brainer.
but it's not just a simple swap out, it also involves a trait slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sezneg
I would have to give up one of the following in order to slot the new trait for the snare:
Shelobs gift
Armor Boost
Steelweave
Swiftweave
Health Boost
It's not a no brainer as I have proposed the tradeoff should be. Sure if I didn't have to drop one of my current class traits, it would be a no brainer...factor in the trait slot, and the equation changes significantly.
A ranged snare would be significantly better than either Steelweave or Swiftweave, in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
Steelweave isn't really that great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorandril
is a ranged snare better than Steelweave or Swiftweave AND the AOE root?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamers
I'm not sure its worth loosing the aoe root and having to drop a class trait slot to have the snare.
I'm not sure it's not worth it either, but IMO loosing an aoe root and essentially a class trait slot as well for a ranged snare makes it a decision that needs to be contemplated, and I suspect that you would have weavers falling on either side of that decision, which IMO is a great indication of balance....
The specifics of the slow was never discussed. It could very well be a pottable effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorandril
Saying it is a no-brainer but failing to admit (or simply denying) the many situations where a root>slow simply shows your incompetence of tactics and class ability.
WTE last 10 sec... loll the slow that RK apply last longer, the only way to kill a RK with a weaver is to melee them to max out the dps cause you cannot kite them because of that ranged slow. Please stop talking about WTE like it is a godlike skill ..Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
Anny way this tread should be close, i think majority of people disagree with the idea.
I dont mind, anny way freeps are supose to be more skilled than creeps. Thats the lore.
Chilling Rhetoric is a 10 second slow by default on a 30 second cooldown.Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-pere3
Traiting Icy Discourse turns it from a 70% slow to a 30% slow for the remaining duration of the skill after you take damage.
Having a LI with Chill of Winter Debuff Duration and another LI with Chilling Rhetoric cooldown to get it to a 20 second slow with a 20 second cooldown. - Most dps runekeepers aren't using these in favor of more damaging skills. (though I do use both - but I heal, not dps)
Thought I would help you out here since you don't seem to know anything about the skill since you just assume it's longer than web the earth or that every runekeeper you fight has a stone and satchel with both those legendaries.
FixedQuote:
Originally Posted by Megas
12314354353
You have to know your full weaver skillset and how to properly use it against each class. I'm not saying WtE alone is godlike, but when you COMBINE it with the weaver skillset, it is indeed very powerful. I would think a R10 spider would know that by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-pere3
Btw...i'd say the average RK's slow is 15s duration(or less) on a 10s cooldown(or more) and the liklihood of a RK keeping the spider slowed once in melee range is slim. I've seen some RKs that don't even trait for the slow.
Possibilities: Change the r11 trait from -5cd to latent to adds 15% slow for 10 to LK, curable via poison cure/pot.
Something I'd love to see:
R10 Advanced Skill: Acid pool. Effects Web the Earth. WtE gains a 2s induction, the slow is reduced to 25% but a 200 acid bleed every 3s for 15s is added.
man this thread is ridiculous. If anything spiders need a nerf
theyre dot of up to 200 has no induction and does 350-500 damage on initial hits also have a melee dot
they drain power with an irremovable dot
they have 3k heals by rank 9 for a super short cooldown
web the earth can slow an entire raid of freeps behind them even after they step out of the poorly animated spot of the webbing for 10 seconds(the area of the skill is huge yet it only shows half of whats really there) not to mention the 10 seconds on the slow are renewed if you land in the webbing again
not only do they have "trap door sanctuary" for get aways but "lie in wait" makes them the only class in the game unable to be tracked
they can range dps while on the move like RK's can (maybe not as hard but my hunter would love to shoot while moving)
they have up to 5 pets they can spawn (only class in the game with more than 1 pet)
they can CJ enemies from 10 meters away (only class in the game that can CJ from range, though it maybe not be much range its still far from melee range)
they can root (might i add also that theyr root is ALOT stronger than my rain of thorns)
they can stun and mezz targets like burglars
lets also make believe that the "catch prey" is not OP either....it decreases the targets block/parry/evade by 1300 each and adds it to the spiders b/p/e, since its a channeling skill it stays on as long as the spider is near the target. (someone tell me where is the spiders shield for these "blocks"?)
spiders are also naturally faster than a freep whether in or out of combat
im sure ive missed more stuff but whatever im done here.
no complaining should ever come from a spider
hah i think tiper is just mad that he cant beat runekeepers in a 1v1..not enough that he can beat every other classQuote:
Originally Posted by ti-pere3
1. And ONE Hunter can effectively "block" the DoTs of 9 spiders with their cleanse. This is more or less the only damage attack we have also (at least that makes sense) apart from our melee PA.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
2. Best used on Burgs trying to HiPS. Not good enough to cause a panic on any willpower class.
3. On death response. Good skill I agree, but dont forget that little detail making it obsolete in most 1vs1s.
4. Our only slow. Totally agree they should enlarge the graphic tho.
5. Trapdoor Sanctuary is a poor get away skill and people only track for Wargs anyway. You trade mobility for extreme stealth. The ONLY other stealth there is on the Creep side apart from Wargs. Now start count the Freep stealths (Captain being the ONLY class that doesnt have a possibility to stealth or did I miss some other?)
6. Hunters can too, not as good tho ;) Youre forgetting Minis are run and gun aswell and with a way higher DPS than a spider. Lets not start on the RKs. Either way dont make it sound like we are even remotely comparable to a WS Mini or a RK. We are at the bottom of the totempole of DPS.
7. Quite uncontrollable and they are only 3. Did I mention they just lost their slowing ability, making it extremly easy to kite them due to their slow speed.
8. Its also not run and gun and with an induction on it. Without the 10m range it would be basicly impossible to get it onto a moving target.
9. Your rain of thorns are an area attack that can root several people and I definatly doubt our root is stronger. What is stronger tho is Hunters traps. Our own DoT mechanic makes roots kinda useless after an initial attack aswell.
10. We have one of each. On stun that triggers on a timer, which gives target plenty of time getting it potted or removed by skill. Mezz I like tho, good opener, but same as root our own DoT mechanic usually makes it useless in the rest of the fight.
11. Breaks on any mezz, stun etc. with a long CD. Considering that basicly ALL Freep classes have some form of stun, mess, fear etc. its not as useful as you make it to be.
12. I usually cant escape from Freeps no matter what these days. Usually dies with even WtE down, Brand and my "incredible" +10% speed. Freeps have enough slows, sprints and horses to make the +10% perfectly valid.
13. Im sure you havent played a spider ever.
14. Dont think theres been much complaining from spiders lately. I think OP expressed a wish and ended up with an unlucky thread naming. Weve been thru this in the rest of the thread already.
Just wanted to tune down your criticism of spiders. You basicly pointed at every skill we have and screamed OP! :D
I invite you to come over to Brandywine and join me on a spider and I will personally show you the ropes. I think you will change your mind about the spiders greatly in just a couple of hours or a day.
/Silkdawn
Requires defeat response and rank NINE.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
I would love to be able to one shot freeps constantly like your hunter, or spam a 40% slow, or pour out the dps you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
3 pets. 3 SWARM pets, on a 2 min CD, 45s duration, that we can't control, only dismiss. Free defeat responses.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
Ever heard of the lore-masters bog lurker?Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
Ours is also the only one with an induction.
Rofl pigs @rse it is. 3 target, 2 min CD, 4m radius. Compared to RoT 7m radius, up to 10 targets with a legacy, 5 without. Can't remember the CD. Oh and The Aoe root is RANK NINE.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
Dimishing returns kinda negates this. So does pots. We're supposed to be a CC class.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
Juste wanted to say that the Warden have a lot more range for is conjonction starter and i think its instant cast, not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
Like i said, i dont mind if the weaver stay like it is right now, the name of this tread should be changed, i juste think in general there should be more flexibility to biuld a creeps, At R10 and 11 the new trait are desapointing thats why i though about a ranged slow.
I dont want to get poeple mad in this discution.
The warden skill 'ambush' is a 5s induction, 30m range, that hits a creep with a 5s KNOCKDOWN. Brands prevent it, cannot be potted. Does not start a CJ, shares DR. If the warden is in stealth (racial, share the fun, careful step), it removes the induction.Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-pere3
Thx you for clarify. I got knocked down so many time by a warden that i couldnt pot. This is a nice skill.
I can dev crit an NPC for mid 500s on TK. To say 350-500 on the initial damage for TK is stretching things quite a bit. Against heavy armor classes, I'm hitting for less than 200 and for light armor classes I might approach 300.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
My dot also doesn't hit for 200 after mitigation...sub 100 on heavy armor wearers, and 160ish IIRC on light armor wearers
I'll pay closer attention to make sure, but IIRC my power drain dot against a burg last night was about 90 to power, high 200's on initial TK and high/mid 100's on the TK dot.
it doesn't stack and ICPR is more than enough to keep up with the amount of the drain.Quote:
they drain power with an irremovable dot
true, our on defeat heal is on a 45 second cd and quite powerful, especially in a raid or group. Like Evil said, it's sort of useless in 1v1s.Quote:
they have 3k heals by rank 9 for a super short cooldown
OFC rank 9 is a very high rank for a weaver....I believe there are less than 50 amongst all of the servers that are currently capable of using that heal.
I will echo what other weavers have stated in their support for fixing the graphical under-representation of the AOE of the web.Quote:
web the earth can slow an entire raid of freeps behind them even after they step out of the poorly animated spot of the webbing for 10 seconds(the area of the skill is huge yet it only shows half of whats really there) not to mention the 10 seconds on the slow are renewed if you land in the webbing again
If the slow lasted longer than 10 seconds, I'd say it would be OP'd, but a 10 second, 40% slow in the continuum of slows on the freep and creep side is about the middle. There are some pretty powerful slows that last 30 seconds and are as great of a magnitude and applicable at range freeps can use.
I'd be willing to be tracked, if I could move while in stealth. There is a reason wargs pick up a lot more INF relative to Weavers, even though we can't be tracked. We have to pick our spot and wait for someone unsuspecting to come by...if nothing comes by we can't go looking for someone to ambush while still in stealth.Quote:
not only do they have "trap door sanctuary" for get aways but "lie in wait" makes them the only class in the game unable to be tracked
I actually think it's a pretty fair tradeoff that while burrowed we can't be tracked. Otherwise our burrow would be our coffins....which is what TDS is most often. TDS does allow for getaways sometimes, but most of the time it serves as a 60 second unlimited target root with the weaver's death at expiration.
Comparing a run and gun RK to a Weaver....the dps isn't even close. RK's run and gun is far superior....so are Minis. It's helpful and an advantage until you look at RKs and Minis in terms of run and gun capability.Quote:
they can range dps while on the move like RK's can (maybe not as hard but my hunter would love to shoot while moving)
I understand that even 3 swarm rated uncontrollable pets are a problem for induction heavy classes. (and it is only 3 at a time, not 5) I've seen a single bog lurker kill all 3 hatchlings before they despawn. I've seen LM pets crit/dev crit higher than I can crit/dev crit for.Quote:
they have up to 5 pets they can spawn (only class in the game with more than 1 pet)
true, and it's helpful, but with an induction and unable to start the cj while in a stealth position, it's not all that hard to get out of the 10m range or break los by running behind an object or through the weaver trying to get it off. Again, a good skill, but not OP'd as you seem to imply.Quote:
they can CJ enemies from 10 meters away (only class in the game that can CJ from range, though it maybe not be much range its still far from melee range)
ROT and weaver root is the same strength IIRCQuote:
they can root (might i add also that theyr root is ALOT stronger than my rain of thorns)
interesting that as the primary CC class you are comparing our CC ability to a burg who's not a primary freep CC class. It just serves to demonstrate how diverse the CC power is across freeps, that even a non primary freep cc class warrants a comparison to THE primary creep CC class.Quote:
they can stun and mezz targets like burglars
If I use my forearm to stop your arm trying to swing a sword, is that not a block? Also, creeps are built from NPC templates where the b/p/e is really treated as one total figure. AFAIK the b/p/e is a distinction made due to response triggers for the PVE worldQuote:
lets also make believe that the "catch prey" is not OP either....it decreases the targets block/parry/evade by 1300 each and adds it to the spiders b/p/e, since its a channeling skill it stays on as long as the spider is near the target. (someone tell me where is the spiders shield for these "blocks"?)
I would argue that OOC that is not the case. I have never seen a freep without an OOC run buff of some sort active, and horses provide a faster speed OOC than the 10% racial buff of weavers.Quote:
spiders are also naturally faster than a freep whether in or out of combat
I'm not trying to minimize the benefit. It's still very beneficial, but the assertion that the 10% speed is OP'd is not something I agree with. Freeps, with their OOC speed buffs/horses are much faster than me and my racial. the key for a freep is to remain ooc long enough to make up the distance so they have closed the gap, instead of trying to shoot at extreme range and thereby loose their OOC run speed buff.
Many freeps on BW are pretty smart about this, and will remain horsed up and dismount ahead of the weaver or will close to less than extreme range under the OOC speed buffs before initiating combat.
my 3 year old does the same thing. My 12 year old has learned that continuing to engage in the dialogue is the best way to advocate your position....even if folks don't agree.Quote:
im sure ive missed more stuff but whatever im done here.
there will be, inevitably, things that need fixing and would warrant a complaint, no matter what class you play.Quote:
no complaining should ever come from a spider
There will always be debate on how to best tweak a class and discussion on buff/nerfs/modifications.
The weaver is not perfect...therefore open discussion of changes is absolutely warranted.
Perhaps you should play a weaver (I didn't see one in your siggy) to get a better appreciation of the challenges it presents as well as it's unique strengths before you say things like the petulant last line of your post.
You had a fair (though I disagree with the points) presentation of your position until your last line.
LM's can get off a ranged CJ with the lurker (although it's not dependable and nobody uses the lurker).Quote:
Originally Posted by sebo2yoface
Thanks Nidor and Evil, you tore him apart better than me ;)
/Silkdawn
I've seen spiders dev crit for 600+ in damage build on initial TK. And their tooltip is like 197 tick and crits for a decent amount. Also...unless freeps use +10 rad AND 3 in purple set, they all have relatively the same acid mitigation (15-20%). Light armour can get more acid mitigation than heavy armour if they chose to and the heavy armour don't wear 3 of each set. How many really wear 3 +10 rad and 3 purple non-rad set tho? On top of that...if they don't have to be moving they have a ranged auto attack (I believe it misses if you are moving). RKs and Mini's do NOT have a ranged auto attack. So even tho you might hit for 250-600 an initial hit, you get an auto attack inbetween if you are standing still which creates a "hidden dps factor" you bias spiders seem to forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
The power drain...even tho you are Health Build lets use your numbers (even if they are wrong, cuz your other info seems to be off <absolute low end if not lower>). 90 per tick = 1,800 power/minute WITHOUT crits (and cannot be resisted). So how is ICPR going make up for it when they are LOSING power not doing anything?...and on top of that when they use skills, the power goes down even faster (skills consume power). If you are damage spec'd spiders, the numbers are higher. Completely creep bias skewed statement you made about your power drain. Oh, and if a person is out of power, putting a power drain on them will keep them out of power for the duration of the power drain = makes a freep useless for 30s+ (and spiders can reapply it). And this is on top of CCing, DoTing, and debuffing other targets that aren't being rendered completely useless by your power drain.
I thought WtE was a 50% slow (not 40%...). Again, trying to understate numbers to skew one's vision?
You basically just said that in order for freeps to catch a spider they have to drop combat to get the OOC from a hunter...or mount up. And dropping combat = not attacking. Oh, you also said a freep which means, you drop combat yourself and can use +20% OOC pot giving you 130% runspeed while out of combat which is >> than any other class (greater than hunter runspeed). That now means it requires 2+ freeps to catch 1 spiders (aka the spider is out numbered). If they mount up you can simply turn and root them and run again always being ahead or lay WtE again. 30% OOC will get you a long ways before they catch you anyways and will likely be safe. So...thats odd. It basically requires a spider to be out numbered in order to catch it. The +10% runspeed to spiders is definately a nice addition to the class...again you understate how well +10% runspeed works even tho you said (what it comes down to) it takes 2+ freeps to catch your spider.
I'm not even going through the whole list. But your Spider Bias shows to an extreme.
That's fine. I don't doubt your experience. I have never dev critted against an equal level freep for anything near that high. Even when I ran with a full DPS build, the highest I ever hit npcs was 550ish....Real Freeps have better mits and were equal levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
Now if you are talking about a 600 dev crit against a 40 freep, then that's an interesting bias of your own.
This is my experience, now granted...I don't know what kind of gear Tub has, but this combat log seemed pretty ordinary as far as my experience goes.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...hot00112-1.jpg
So from that log....
125 pts of Acid from the TK dot (Line 1 and working down)
270 pts of Acid from an initial TK application
80 pts of Power damage from Toxin
125 pts from the TK dot
120 pts to power from a Tox Dot crit
125 pts TK Dot
72 pts from my auto attack
etc.
My numbers are right on. I welcome any corrections, but you are making up numbers to support your bias. I have proof of my numbers and basis for my observations, which supports what I've said.
also, because of the change to damage build stacking, not everyone runs with a full bore DPS build weaver. So you are trying to compare apples to my orange weaver.
yes...my 72 point auto attack that only works if i'm not moving. OP'd...:rolleyes:Quote:
And their tooltip is like 197 tick and crits for a decent amount. Also...unless freeps use +10 rad AND 3 in purple set, they all have relatively the same acid mitigation (15-20%). Light armour can get more acid mitigation than heavy armour if they chose to and the heavy armour don't wear 3 of each set. How many really wear 3 +10 rad and 3 purple non-rad set tho? On top of that...if they don't have to be moving they have a ranged auto attack (I believe it misses if you are moving). RKs and Mini's do NOT have a ranged auto attack. So even tho you might hit for 250-600 an initial hit, you get an auto attack inbetween if you are standing still which creates a "hidden dps factor" you bias spiders seem to forget.
and you still are going off with your 250-600 hit...again...like many a freep defending the big guns on their side...(RK EC Dev crit or hunter Dev crits) not every hit of TK is a dev crit. To use the extreme highest possible damage as your baseline is egregious bias on your own part. I HAVE NEVER HIT AN NPC FOR 600 ON A DEV CRIT MUCH LESS A FREEP FOR THAT AMOUNT. PERIOD. I would bet my toon and delete it if that turned out to be incorrect, that's how certain I am of that fact.
yup wrong, I OVERSTATED the hit for non crits by 10 pts...the normal tick was actually 10 pts lower... and I also OVERSTATED the TK dot amount by 40ish points....ROFL...but anyway, I digress...Quote:
The power drain...even tho you are Health Build lets use your numbers (even if they are wrong, cuz your other info seems to be off <absolute low end if not lower>).
don't you gain power not doing anything? (and health for that matter)Quote:
90 80 per tick = 1,800 power/minute WITHOUT crits (and cannot be resisted). So how is ICPR going make up for it when they are LOSING power not doing anything?...
IDK what your ICPR is or what Tub's was...however I notice that Toxin alone doesn't really make a dent in the power pools of freeps I use it against. It only has any value w/a banner (thereby killing the regen of power), if the freep is low on power already it will keep them low (the ICPR seems to be enough to keep up with the drain, but not outpace), and for knocking burgs out of stealth after they've hips'd, or in conjunction with LP/Hatch
Yup...MY bias because I overstated how much damage my TOX dot did... :rolleyes:Quote:
and on top of that when they use skills, the power goes down even faster (skills consume power). If you are damage spec'd spiders, the numbers are higher. Completely creep bias skewed statement you made about your power drain.
I agree with you here, as this is a tactic I use. I try to identify freeps who have less than half of their power pools remaining and try to get tox on them to force them to manage their power consumption or risk running out of power. Most useful in protracted raid on raid fights when power management becomes an issue as the fight continues. OFC a power pot does offer a bit of respite from being completely useless because of my power drain...lawl.Quote:
Oh, and if a person is out of power, putting a power drain on them will keep them out of power for the duration of the power drain = makes a freep useless for 30s+ (and spiders can reapply it). And this is on top of CCing, DoTing, and debuffing other targets that aren't being rendered completely useless by your power drain.
I could be mistaken, I thought is was a 40% slow. If I mis-stated, it wasn't intentional.Quote:
I thought WtE was a 50% slow (not 40%...). Again, trying to understate numbers to skew one's vision?
I guess it's not possible that a freep would already be OOC upon seeing a spider eh? Or that they would already be mounted up? Couldn't ever happen.Quote:
You basically just said that in order for freeps to catch a spider they have to drop combat to get the OOC from a hunter...or mount up.
Well, nonmoronic freeps on BW have strats that can keep a creep incombat while others in the group can drop combat in order to mount up or use run buffs. When you grow up, you might sit at the adult table to learn this stuff.Quote:
And dropping combat = not attacking. Oh, you also said a freep which means, you drop combat yourself and can use +20% OOC pot giving you 130% runspeed while out of combat which is >> than any other class (greater than hunter runspeed).
a single burg and mez me and run away while I can't follow...it takes...WAHHH more than 1 creep to chase down a burg intent on getting away... man you are one emo little boy.Quote:
That now means it requires 2+ freeps to catch 1 spiders (aka the spider is out numbered). If they mount up you can simply turn and root them and run again always being ahead or lay WtE again. 30% OOC will get you a long ways before they catch you anyways and will likely be safe. So...thats odd. It basically requires a spider to be out numbered in order to catch it. The +10% runspeed to spiders is definately a nice addition to the class...again you understate how well +10% runspeed works even tho you said (what it comes down to) it takes 2+ freeps to catch your spider.
wahhhh...a guardian's sprint + their mitigation means I can chase them from grams to GV solo plinking away and they'd still make it unless I had the assistance of another creep....
Sorry, I fail to sympathize with your emo tantrum about 1 weaver being able to get away from a single freep. Most classes that are intent on getting away (freep or creep) from a single toon of the opposite faction can do so in most cases.
I'm sure I have some weaver centric bias...it's the primary class I've played since the game started. However, I do try to remain open as much as human nature allows. i try to be level and try to see things from the other side and expand my viewpoint.Quote:
I'm not even going through the whole list. But your Spider Bias shows to an extreme.
however, your bias is just trying to shout down those who don't agree with you. You are biased and your bias makes you closeminded...and even more dangerous, you can't see your own bias.
Nidor wounds Sebo with Epic Forum Conclusion for 9.423 Acid Damage.
Sebo have succumed to his wounds.
/Silkdawn
We show bias because we've played them for over 2 years and understand how they work to the max, know their ups and downs, and know what we can and can't do.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
Spiders are strong 1v1, yes. Small group? Quite powerful if ranked and played properly. Raid vs raid? More than 3 spiders hurts dps and healing. We're the CC class creepside but our CC is quite pathetic. That's why I lead raids on a spider. I can CC the target, do a small amount of dps, while target calling from range or melee if need be, and can slow the enemy to allow my raid to tactically retreat.
I agree the power drain is a good skill, but it is affected by mitigation VERY heavily. Pots and skills can give you power. Don't forget it roots you in place for 1.5s, just like LK. Have power problems? Get an LM to give you power. LM's can also power drain if they're out. So few actually do because they're too busy dpsing instead of wound curing or sharing power or debuffing.
It's funny how much complaining there was when spiders got the unbreakable root, but when they were nerfed into oblivion no-one really cared.
Why would I possibly refer to crits vs lvl 40 toons? I don't have brandywhine or emolindimer logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
I'll see if I can get the spider to take a SS for me of his ticks on freeps (lvl 65). Either way: 80power/3s over 1 minute...1,600 power/min. Other than a chmp/wrdn in stances (that already use a fair bit of power), i don't know any other class that has over 1400 icpr unbuffed (even high fate classes). So when the class is in combat with the power drain on...they are literally losing power even if they just stand there (while in combat). If you can't understand that 1,400icpr<1,600icpr, you might wanna go back to school, mommy shouldn't do all your work for you.
A single burg will mez you and run away and you can't follow it? Simply pot the mez and DoT it. Not only that...you never said it slowed you so you will have a 10% runspeed on it while keeping your DoT on it. You also fail to realize that the +10% runspeed is a full-time thing...the sprints you used in your example is a cooldown. The idiotic examples would definately come from a Brandywhine person tho.
The funnist part about all of this...I haven't defended the "big guns" on freep side. You are simply putting words in my mouth that aren't there. You are so bias that you imagine me saying things I never said and then claim I said them. As far as the whole tantrum and emo comments, I haven't made any/done anything until this post. Because you are experiencing the tantrums and emo activities yourself it would make sense that is what comes to your mind. O well tho, if you need help i'd gladly let ya be miserable instead and just laugh at you.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...Spider-DoT.jpg
Notice how in a lil bit of playing I dev crit an npc for 657 damage with tainted kiss. Granted, I had the WL banner(+3%?), the 5% buff from isen (assuming it gives +% ranged damage. Some keeps are diff), and the reaver armour rend on CG...however, I was 16.5% dps from being full dps spec'd on the spider. So unless you build your spider around health AND power <which is totally stupid>, i'm not quite sure how you NEVER dev critted an npc for 550+.
That sounds nothing like Elendilmir.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
You actually think clearly so i'll respond. I agree that no more than 2-3 spiders per raid -- but the same goes for other classes. I wouldn't want more than 2-3 defilers per raid (i'd rather have an extra WL over a 3rd defiler). On freepside, I wouldn't want more than 2-3 wardens and no more than 3 burgs. The power drain is mitigated a bit (it is common mitigation tho...so much more for heavies than light, but heavies also tend to have less power) -- it can crit and cannot be resisted. <btw it does stack with warg power drain>. If a LM is draining power all it takes is for 1 BA to simply switch to the LM and no-you-don't it. Simple as that for 1 BA to stop the LM from power draining. I'm not saying that 1 spider skill by itself is over powered, just when you put all of them together they become powerful (not overpowered) -- but giving them more would put them over that line in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherGab
I agree with this, but don't you think spiders should get something nice at higher ranks? I mean, it's a spider. Not the hardest class to rank, but still quite a pain. As I suggested earlier, a change to WtE with a r10 advanced and a slow on LK at r11 would in no way be game-breaking, unless far too many people obtain it, which by that time freeps would (hopefully) be a lot stronger :)Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
Heed me, I want spiders to get some more things, but I want freeps buffed. Freeps are still the stronger raid vs raid atm, but book 6 was the greatest challenge of PvMP in my eyes for creeps, it kept the easymoders away and the hardcores in. WTB book 6 again plz. Just with more inf/ren in raids :p
Ive never seen damage above around 550 either on my spider (or heard another spider get over 600) and thoose Ive seen have been on NPCs. Granted Im not pure damage built, but the poor damage trait we get is not worth it imo. Either way, isnt this a bit redicilous to argue about anyway? I mean it clearly shows how darn low DPS we have and thats the end of that discussion imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
The powerdrain is what Nidor say it is. Its a useful skill against certain classes, but far to inferior to be any bother to most "power" classes. Best used togheter with hatchlings and Latent Poison too if you want some sort of powerdrain effect out of it (Toxin alone is usually to weak by itself even against thoose classes that are a bit vulnerable to it.)
Funny how you mention "just pot out of it", because thats what we spiders have to endure all the time. Not to mention all other skills some classes have or why not highlighting the cursed SoP:R? A spammable INCOMBAT brand given to the Loremasters friends and himself. Which leaves us with only our 5 min CD conjunction, a root and WtE left. Apart from the 5 second CJ, means people are free to pew pew away at their will while being under the immunity. Nope, our CC aint very strong.
A constant +10% runspeed is also almost a must if we want to effectively be able to use our CC with 60% of them being melee applied. Just as Freeps melee classes we spiders are also a melee class (or hybrid). We also needs to close the distance to our target or decrease it at times. Freep classes have sprints for this, well on our side we have a constant small sprint. I see nothing weird with this. I kinda like how we aint mirrors off each others. I also cant count all the times when Ive lost preys due to the sprints or when I wont be able to escape due to sprints. It certainly have its ups and downs having a constant +10% runspeed instead of a sprint. While in most pure combat situations the small constant runspeed is a nice little bonus to have, while in others you start to dream of that sprint :)
/Silkdawn
I said in xs of 600...stop changing my numbers to suit your bias.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
anyway,
Is this SS supposed to demonstrate you are op'd against NPCs?
Armor Rend, WL Banner, and Keep damage buff against an NPC..Once again you are taking an extreme example of the highest possible damage in a situation where nearly every damage buff and armor debuff was in place (another extreme situation) against a NPC.
You seriously think that using an extreme example of a Dev Crit and buffs/debuffs against an NPC serves as a valid comparison of a normal baseline fight against an equal level freep?
Ok, it makes sense. You are trying to defend NPCs against how OP'd a weaver is against them. My apologies, I thought we were talking about freeps and fights between a weaver and another player controlled avatar.
Next time I'm fighting slugs I'll take a look at my combat log so I can appreciate my toon's superiority and relative OP'd status against them. In that regard, I agree with you...against an NPC weavers could be considered OP. Your point has been made and heard. Thank you for allowing me to see that more clearly.
I never really considered the uphill fight NPCs had against player controlled toons. We all should be nerfed, because of OP'd crits against poor old Meldun and his other NPC bretheren.:rolleyes:
Save The Poor Little Dwarves!!!!
little dwarves is redundant :DQuote:
Originally Posted by BrotherGab
Oh, I see. So it would be like saying overpowered weaver? Or whiny creep? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
My apologies. You said mid 500s previously (which I just put as 550ish), althought i went back and you did say 600 one time.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
What it demonstrates is how I can be 16.5% damage shy of full dps build and achieve 600+ damage on a dev crit...showing how horrifying your statements are saying you never achieved that even when full damage spec'd whether on an npc or not...and this was just like 1hr of playing around, it wasn't even days or weeks of playing:Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
Right now I am logged in and have Health for Power 1&2 traited as well as Health for Damage 1&2 traited. (other 2 slots are open for sake of argument). The build is now considered a full health build with the least (competent person playing) possible damage. Initial is 368, tick is 171.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
No (competent) mid-high ranked spider is going have LESS damage than that, right? If it would, it would likely trait power for damage <--and if a spider does that they might as well just delete their toon IMO.
So...while being traited full health (and not traited for any damage): That freep would of had almost 27% acid mitigation which I hope everyone can agree on is HIGH for a freep. If you have any damage for power or damage for health traited...the mitigation would actually be slightly higher for that freep. You seem to show lowest damage build vs highest mitigation freep out in the Moors. I'd call that an extreme and bias screenshot if wanting to prove your point.
Im curious tho...what corruptions do you slot?
It isn't a bit ridiculous to argue about. The initial debate is that weavers should get a ranged slow: and part of deciding that should be how much dps they have, how much CC, what type of skills/abilities they already have: and how would adding the slow change the spider's ability/capability. What it shows it that the low DPS is fine where it is at for a spider...not underpowered or overpowered. Unfortunately a spider wanted to talk specifically about damage and then it made some absurd statements and i figured i'd hop on my R3 and 4 spiders to check some things out and call out the absurdities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlotus
I'd say you are far off in saying it is inferior when used on "power" classes. It isn't the best skill in every situation -- but in many situations it is far from inferior even when used on "power" classes. I'd call into question tactics/skill before listening to what Nidor says.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlotus
Because you only fight LMs out in the Moors or only fight people in LMs group that keep SoP:R up 100% of the time? *rolls eyes* Again...you are picking situations to fit your needs and apparently trying to say that is the only situation out in the Moors... Guess what: LMs run around with SoP:R all the time and still get wrecked in 5 seconds by wargs because the LM got CJ'd -- kinda ironic how the class that supposedly has this godmode CC immunity gets wrecked in 5 seconds by...CC!Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlotus
I am not sure what you are trying to point out. It sounds like you are saying spider runspeed is fine where it is at given the current skillset, which I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlotus
Maybe...i forgot what your suggestions were to the changes :) At least if you played a class that is OP, you could admit it. I am doubting the other spiders meet your skill level tho so thats why. I'll go with sure, you can have the R10 advanced skill and R11 assuming freeps will be slightly buffed by then.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherGab
i need to know if people are still actually debating weavers should get a range slow (which they shouldn't) or if the thread has been derailed to some other topic around weavers...
With another absurdity? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
No, I still stick with Nidor on this even if I saw that little nice dev crit. I wanna see some normal Freep combat log with a crit like that first. Thoose times Ive checked my crits Ive been down in the delving shooting NPCs and I cant recall the exact numbers but Ive never seen a tripple number starting with a 6 and never heard anyone else seen it either.
I think we have already derailed away from the initial topic, but I think we all agreed it was an unfortunate topic name that should have stated WANT instead of NEED.
Ive been having solo fights with powerclasses and apart from a RK, who wont even bother about power, since his enemies or him will be dead within 30 seconds top anyway, Ive never been able to drain one in under 2 mins, by this time someone is usually dead either way. Really long fights are usually with Minis forced into healingmode. Thoose fights can last up to 3-4 mins sometimes. Makes me really wonder if I should bother with the powerdrain at all and just go more damage instead?Quote:
I'd say you are far off in saying it is inferior when used on "power" classes. It isn't the best skill in every situation -- but in many situations it is far from inferior even when used on "power" classes. I'd call into question tactics/skill before listening to what Nidor says.
I dont deny its usefullness, it is usefull, but not so much on certain classes and theres absolutly nothing gamebreaking with the weak Toxin we have. It would be a killer if it was stackable however and I would probably argue WITH the Freeps in that case or at least stay very very silent in the arguments ;)
I dont buy that argument. When comparing sides you gonna have to watch the whole spectra and not just exclude things just because its convenient. Also you wonder why this LM will get CJed? Because thats the only thing we can do against one whos immune to the rest of the CC or doesnt bother about a root or slow (which a LM rarely do.)Quote:
Because you only fight LMs out in the Moors or only fight people in LMs group that keep SoP:R up 100% of the time? *rolls eyes* Again...you are picking situations to fit your needs and apparently trying to say that is the only situation out in the Moors... Guess what: LMs run around with SoP:R all the time and still get wrecked in 5 seconds by wargs because the LM got CJ'd -- kinda ironic how the class that supposedly has this godmode CC immunity gets wrecked in 5 seconds by...CC!
Theres a reason why LMs dies before Healers in my attacks at least and I believe the Wargs feel the same way. This if anything should be an indication that the Creep side gives LMs more credit then they give themselfs. If we considered them weak they wouldnt be such high priority targets now would they?
Yup think we can agree on this, but you made it sound like +10% was superior to a sprint. Which it isnt in a flee or chase situation.Quote:
I am not sure what you are trying to point out. It sounds like you are saying spider runspeed is fine where it is at given the current skillset, which I agree.
/Silkdawn
Derailed and we have all already made our points about it being something nice and something to dream about, but not needed as far as Ive followed the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Notaforumguy007
/Silkdawn
R11:TK gets a 15% slow added, lasts 10s, curable via poison.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
R10:Enhanced Skill: Poison the Earth. Changes Web The Earth to the following:
Slow reduced to 25%. 2s induction added. Adds a 200 acid dot every 3s for 15s to all enemies in the radius.
LOL at all the E-thug **** you posted here, get out of here you trash, Nidor is over 9000% of the player and guy you'd ever hope to beQuote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
yes, you are right because the highest I've ever hit an NPC for is 550ish and I've said that a few times, and I said I've never hit for above that (6XX). That would have been against an sub 65 npc (but while solo so no other debuffs like armor rend and such that you had with the CG.) However, again I fail to see how dev crits against an NPC has any relevance against what one's normal damage is when fighting a freep, who would have better mits, better crit protection (being and presuming equal level) and the wherewithal to remove debuffs if they could. (i think armor rend is a wound?) Anyway, I'm talking about a fighting and damage w/o the consideration of outside debuffs and buffs that other characters contribute. If you start to bring that into the picture, then you could bring in things like WL buffs as well as Cappy buffs and so forth...which then begin to distort the picture IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
A weaver can't armor rend, therefore that shouldn't be a part of the consideration (from my viewpoint) just like a burg can't have a Morale buff that a cappy could bestow (if they can do such a thing, i only am using it as an illustration).
what's horrifying is you are achieving what you say against an NPC w/the deck stacked as much in your favor w/OUTSIDE modifications to that NPC that you as a weaver couldn't bring to the table on your own (armor rend) and calling that a good proxy for what would typify a fight w/a freep. IMO that's being disingenuous at the very least. IMO you are comparing apples to oranges. Let me see a combat log where you are fighting an equal level freep and you hit for over 600 with any semblance of regularity without any debuffs that you yourself didn't bring to the fight. Your 600 is not a regular hit. It's predicated on some very specific precursors to maximize that dev against an unthinking foe.Quote:
What it demonstrates is how I can be 16.5% damage shy of full dps build and achieve 600+ damage on a dev crit...showing how horrifying your statements are saying you never achieved that even when full damage spec'd whether on an npc or not...and this was just like 1hr of playing around, it wasn't even days or weeks of playing:
My initial on TK is 383/178 DotQuote:
Right now I am logged in and have Health for Power 1&2 traited as well as Health for Damage 1&2 traited. (other 2 slots are open for sake of argument). The build is now considered a full health build with the least (competent person playing) possible damage. Initial is 368, tick is 171.
Like I said, I don't know that Tub's gear is. If 27% or whatever his acid mit is, is considered high, then again it wasn't intentionally chosen for that fact. It's entirely possible he's built for spider fighting because he went for high acid mit. I don't play freep so i don't know that aspect, only from what I see on the creep side of the combat logs.Quote:
No (competent) mid-high ranked spider is going have LESS damage than that, right? If it would, it would likely trait power for damage <--and if a spider does that they might as well just delete their toon IMO.
So...while being traited full health (and not traited for any damage): That freep would of had almost 27% acid mitigation which I hope everyone can agree on is HIGH for a freep. If you have any damage for power or damage for health traited...the mitigation would actually be slightly higher for that freep. You seem to show lowest damage build vs highest mitigation freep out in the Moors. I'd call that an extreme and bias screenshot if wanting to prove your point.
Also, you are wrong again in you assumptions. I actually have a higher Damage build than you, based on what you quoted your Initial/DOT on tk...so I'm not showing a screenshot of the "Lowest damage build vs highest mitigation freep out in the moors" Therefore that is not a biased screenshot trying to prove my point, but actually once again demonstrates your extreme bias in trying to tear down what I've provided as proof, only for you to be wrong again.
You stated my bias showed (before i provided the screen shot) that a 90 Tox tic was essentially a lowball amount that you doubted but was gracious enough to accept...and it turned out that I had overstated that by 10 points and you were wrong.
My bias apparently showed in a low TK dot and initial damage from my memory that I stated, and again, you were proven wrong because once again I overstated my damage from my memories of that fight and turned out I did less initial damage and less on the dot than I had stated.
you stated that my bias showed because I was purposely showing the lowest health build possible and most gimped damage build possible, and once again you were proven wrong because from the figures you provided, i have a slightly higher damage on my initial and dot than your build (if that is your regular build, IDK).
Each time you have tried to call me out on my bias, it's actually you who has reinforced your own extreme bias over and over. You have been wrong on all of these accounts and frankly I have no confidence in anything you say as any sort of credible observer any longer.
I'm fine with satisfying your curiosity...even though you may no doubt claim that it also shows my extreme bias.Quote:
Im curious tho...what corruptions do you slot?
H4P1
H4P2
H4D1
D4P2
H4D2
Stealth Detect
I have 7311 Morale and I notice quite a few of the higher ranked weavers on BW run w/the same health, so I presume this is one of the more popular build setups on BW.
You fail. Enough said.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloinfast
I never said critting against an npc was relevant to damage that you'd do to a freep. One of the spiders brought up the damage that they were never able to achieve (including on npcs). My screenshot was simply to show it was easy to achieve...i'll elaborate more further down.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
On a level 65 captain my initial TK was 362 (was removed from a hunter right away at EC). On a lvl 65 LM, my initial TK was 383, the tick was 178 on the LM. This was full damage spec'd on my spider and R3. So from the spider's screenshot against Tub to the numbers I just provided (I do have a SS but it isn't worth time to upload it), the difference is a fair amount.
Well...when people say they've never hit that high, on anything. PERIOD. <--I interpret that "PERIOD" as including any and all buffs available. Why else would a person include that?Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
Again, I never called it a good proxy for npc damage = freep damage. It was simply to point out how you've never hit anything that high PERIOD, and how I could in one night. I'll play my spider tomorrow if I get time and try n sit back and just TK stuff so I can actually SS my combat log other than the 3 damge numbers I gave above. I've been critting lvl 65s for 500+ on initial TK (not being a dev crit). When I come across a starefest i'll take a SS of my combat log when I get around to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
I said for "sake of argument." If you don't understand the difference that isn't my fault. Your whole point just became invalid in terms of my bias.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
Well to answer that, i'd have to know the class. The power drain is common mitigation. Heavies will mitigate 10-15% more than light and medium armour wearers. And then on top of that, your lower dps spider build factors into that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
Maybe if you stop interchanging words or phrases that don't mean the same thing and stop trying to say I said things I never said, you might make more sense of the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
Nice to know. It is pretty close to what I expected. Although I can't say I noticed 1 spider running with a full morale build today on the server I was on. I also hit R4 on my spider last night so I can get the power drain numbers as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSEguy1970
Sure. R11 would kinda just be like a passive uprade, right? Are the enhanced skills the one that require a class trait? Been so long since I messed with buying and traiting high ranked skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherGab
P.S. Your idea is completely burried and no one will ever know about it. Hahahaha
Nope. Both require class traits. That's how it works, the r11, r14 and r15 upgrades require a class trait slot. Same with Enhanced skill. It's an upgrade that requires a trait.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
that poison of the earth is better than a flippin firetrap...Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherGab
and once you hit r11 I will no longer be sparring you :(
Just what we needed a f*cking Dwarf in the thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by gloinfast
/Silkdawn
250 every 3s for 15s is not as good as 200 every 2s for 30s.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloinfast