I know this isn't really constructive criticism, but that sounds great, thank you (I just completed another T2 and went "meh" at the purple vendor trash).Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
IXP/relics are always useful and also future proof.
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I know this isn't really constructive criticism, but that sounds great, thank you (I just completed another T2 and went "meh" at the purple vendor trash).Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
IXP/relics are always useful and also future proof.
I'm glad to see the loot issues are being looked in to. I was really surprised on my first run through the new Scuttledell 3 man. We did it on T2 and the loot was nothing short of pathetic. First boss gave one of the three group members a pretty low rune and nothing to the other two people. Final boss gave me three extremely low runes, 650, 1300, 2000 and nothing to the other two people in the group. Needless to say after running a T2 we were pretty bummed and felt as if we had wasted our time with that weak loot. Granted loot is random, but running an 85 T2 should produce better results than that.
I know I don't post much, but I do read the forums all the time and have played the game for 2+ years. Currently I'm the raid leader for my kin, so I have a bit of experience with 'looting' and even just trying to get enough people to run some of the content.
Given that little bit of background info is done, I consider the issue of loot itemization so important that I just felt the need to post.
First up, the bad, I'm really hating and am so over the total random nature of loot. Recent skirm raids have been an excerise in mostly wasted time, when after getting upto 12 people together and spending upto an hour, all you get in the chest is two gear items, both the same and for a warden that isn't even in the group and even if one was, they wouldn't use over the Hytbold set anyway.
From reading and what I have done of the new content, the total random nature is still all there, almost to the point that it's hardly worth it.
While it's too late at the moment for the new instances, what I would really like to see, is the system that was used for Great River. To my mind that as a whole just worked so well. Its advantages were:
1. You could see the teal jewellery that you can get and it was really great stuff
2. You could see the barter items needed to get it and while some time and playing was involved, it wasn't a super grind.
3. The Roots of Fangorn awarded the main barter item (egg) to each player on completing even T1. This made it nicely puggable and each run ment you got closer to your end goal, the jewellery.
4. It was half solo and part groups, so even if you couldn't get a group at the time, you coudl still do something that got you closer to your goal.
Basically, the whole random nature of loot was removed, and while it was a bit of a grind, for the tokens, the rep etc it wasn't over the top and at every stage, you got closer to getting your jewellery and could decide on what to aim for or barter for first. People grouped for the limlight rep quests for months and Roots was run many times, either at T1 for the basic barter item or T2C for more of a challenge and a chance at a nice item drop (yes that part was random, but that's OK, since you could still get some pretty darn good stuff without it and in some cases, the random purple drop wasn't half bad and the teal was just better again).
You can still have random yellow loot for the hard core players that will just run it and run it, but for the teal stuff, having a system like the Great River one means there's always a light at the end of the tunnel and lets you acheive something with your playing rather then spends hours and getting nothing but some gold.
I would appreciate being able to know the actual drop rates for the legendary/incomparable equipment so I can know if I'm wasting my time doing something I could just wait to purchase from the AH.
If you mean the orange/yellow/gold/whatever-the-heck color it is equipment, it's BoAcquire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Untg99
Teals and purples are BoE, though.
Can't help ya on the drop rate, of course.
It's the gear that we want from the instances. The scrolls, crystals and relics are nice, but equipment is what we go for. So far I've run T2 challenge on all 3 mans 2x, SG T2 challenge and Warg Pens T2 Challenge and I've only seen 1 Teal piece of gear (and that was amongst all rolls on all players). That seems like a rather low percentage...
I did win a Riddermark Crystal, Riddermark Crsytal of Rememberance and Relic Removal Scroll and a TON of marks. So I'm not complaining about that, but I would trade those (excepting maybe the Rememberance Crystal) for teal loot. Also, marks and medallions are nice, but there is nothing to buy with them that's worth much. If you can make it through SG T2, odds are you have gear that's way better then the skirm venders can provide by a mile.
Cas
The fact that it's a question of a lot of luck to get just one teal item for one out of three players after completing challenge mode on t2 at all is quite disturbing to me. It has indeed never been this way so I consider it being a nerf. I get a lot less out of an instance than ever. In my opinion there should be a certainty to get one teal item. Not per person. But 33% of probability to get something useful out of a 3-man instance would actually keep players going there. But if there's like a 5% chance to get an item at all which may not even be teal-tier is just way too low. Since purple-items on lvl 85 are mostly worse than some purple items on lvl 75 and mainly worse than the full lvl-75-teal-equip. So why even bother going there if there remains a chance of maybe 2% to get something useful out of there.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
Seriously. I figured you would consider changing loot into something more or less attractive. But I don't believe that anybody will go to an instance for ixp runes or relics. Mostly because almost everybody has millions of ixp on their banks and everybody can get much bigger amounts of relics by soloing or duo-ing grand stairs. That change will be very much a dead end and I don't believe that anybody will think of this as an improvement. Relics and ixp have been generously spread all over middlearth. And anything that drops in Moria can still be used in Rohan. So it is certainly not what your new content needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
So remote loot is quite a failure for now. That's what I think. It might be an interesting concept. But if chances are less than 50% that running an Ini will reward at least one of the players with an equip-item that will be at least considerable to be worn on the accurate level, I don't see any future for it. I strongly believe that there has to be a 100%-chance that at least one gear-item will drop per instance. And at least 1 teal one on t2.
The problem about that stuff is that you can get it out of the shop as well. So any real improver who has got some money left will probably do that and not wait until luck gave him that out of an instance. So he's gonna sell the stuff and end up with just more money that he hasn't any use for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote503
Nothing to buy is one problem. The other one is that you get that stuff anywhere else where your chances to get something useful aside are much higher like skraids or warbands. So if you like some marks, medaillons and stuff on the side of good loot you better do something else than all that new content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote503
You talk about supergrind and call it well-working? Erm...Quote:
Originally Posted by theguru1
If you have to work for something specifically by getting tokens the problem will be that people will just choose the quickest and easiest way. So just like mirkwood you bring along 3 instances but 2 won't be played. It worked with the great river because there was just one instance. But as soon as there's several, this won't work at all. Plus: I like the thrill of hoping for loot-luck - as long as that luck is somewhat realistic on the probability-side. I don't like calculating myself through a game in order to improve myself. I found that stupid on the Hytbold-sets, I found that stupid on the Great-River-Sets. I found it stupid with the sword-hall stuff etc. In the meantime I liked the idea of knowing that a token in moria would drop and that I had about 17% chance to get it. Or double that chance with 2 runs etc.
Less calculating and more luck is good. But there has to be an adequate chance to win something to go with it.
Honestly I'm not sure why the developers decided to change the loot system...was something not working? Were there bugs or something? I thought it was working fine personally...
I will say that I think they had it about as good as they could get it with the OD cluster. Everyone I knew was running the 3 man and 6 man dailies to get the North Men Medallions that could be bartered for good loot. And since each instance had a daily, you had to run them all. And while the loot wasn't as good as the raid set, they had a lesser version which was still good (that's how it should be imo).
The main thing was, not only were you sure you would get something decent in last chest of each instance, you could also see what you wanted from the North Men medallion venders and work towards it. I think that was a happy medium for people who wanted to run instances and get stuff and for those who put in extra grinding/work they would get something too for all their work.
I don't see the new loot system working out unless 1) the probably for actual equipment increases and 2) the challenge chest MUST drop something every time (besides a &&&&&& bounty). As it stands now, there is no incentive to do challenge as you either get a bounty or a bounty and a legendary. I have yet to see one legendary drop in any run i have done and we're at about a dozen challenges and counting now. 3) put something in the skirmish camp that is an upgrade to our gear if we grind for it (I don't care if each thing is 10k marks or more), but as it is now all you really need is empowerment scrolls and delving scrolls and we already grinded for those while we waited for the new instances...
Cas
Comments in cyan.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
I like that scrolls of relic removal finally drop in the game. It's about time.
I don't like that there is a most certain nerf to group drops. We used to get a lot more. And what's with T2C hardly dropping anything at all?
Rock,Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
Your second point about being able to get the Legendary piece technically from both the challenge and normal chest seems great but dissappointing at the same time. Case in point, my kin Ran BG last night and Killed the Lt with ease. One champion recieved the Legendary Champion boots from both chests. Since they are not tradable and since the loot is randomly assigned now, one pair of those boots is going to waste despite having two other champs in the group that could have used them if the old Loot system had been in place. Any thoughts or effort on how to address this issue? Maybe Legendaries are bound to group for X minutes or just not Auction Housable? Or maybe just for Legendaries a prompt that asks the player if they wish to accept the item or return it to the group loot pool, where it could be claimed by another appropriate class? With the random chance for everyone to get something, and the chance for the same person to always get the same Legendary Item I see this as a source of much frustration and bitterness down the line. Thanks for all the responses to this thread. :)
Edit: My mistake. I misread what I was commenting on.
I was bored @ work, so here's how I think remote looting loot should work (ignoring the difficulties of gold items not able to be traded):
New 3 mans (and future 6 and 12 mans):
3 mans t1:
-the easiest and quickest group content, zero hassle to get a group.
1.Should give 100% chance of either rune (50k) or relic (t5) on each chest per person, and
2. 50% chance of item (armor/jewellery) dropping per person, (teal/purple is 25/75) from the boss chest.
3 mans t2:
-harder than t1, but still pretty quick content, requires a more balanced group of experienced players.
1. Should give 100% chance of both rune (50k) and relic (tier 5) on each chest, and
2. 100% chance of AT LEAST one purple/teal item to drop (teal/purple is 50/50) from boss chest.
3 mans t2 challenge:
-Same as t2, except add a challenge chest which will
1. give another guaranteed rune (50k) and relic (tier 6), and
2. another chance for a teal item and a small chance for a gold item to drop (teal/gold is 90/10), and
3. 15% chance to get a tarnished symbol or crystal per person.
6 man t1:
-Should require semi-balanced group, and takes a little more effort to find a group, but very flexible group makeup.
1. should give 100% chance of both a rune (50k) and a relic (tier5) to drop in each chest, and
2. a guaranteed 100% chance for at least one person to get a teal/purple item (purple/teal is 25/75) from boss chest..
6 man t2:
- Much harder content, trash able to decimate non-tanks quickly. requires a solid group with dedicated tank, healer, support, and (hopefully) dps.
1. should give 100% chance of both a rune (80k+) and a relic (t6) in each chest, and
2. a guaranteed 100% chance for at least one person to get a teal/purple item (purple/teal is 50/50) from boss chest, and
3. 10% chance to get a tarnished symbol or crystal per person.
6 man t2 challenge:
- same as t2 except add a challenge chest which will...
1. give 100% chance of both a rune (80k) and a relic (t6), and
2. a guaranteed 100% chance for at least one person to get a teal/gold item, and a small chance that item will be gold (teal/gold is 80/20.), and
3. 15% chance to get a tarnished symbol or crystal per person, and
4. 5% chance to get a worn symbol per person.
12 man t1:
- requires 12 players of varying experience. takes effort and scheduling to form a group, somewhat flexible in group makeup. Boss chest will give...
1. 100% chance of both a rune (50k) and a relic (t5), and
2. a guaranteed 100% chance for at least two people to get a teal/purple item (purple/teal is 50/50), and
3. a 10% chance for a tarnished symbol/crystal to drop per person, and
4. a 5% chance for a crystal of remembrance to drop per person.
12 man t2
-requires raiders with experience in the raid, more than likely who have raided together. requires scheduling, and a solid group. Boss chest will give...
1. 100% chance to drop both a rune (80k) and a relic (t6), and
2. a guaranteed 100% chance for at least two people to get a teal/gold item, and a decent chance that item will be gold (teal/gold is 60/40), and
3. a 10% chance for a tarnished symbol of the elder king/crystal to drop per person, and
4. a 10% (too high?) chance for a crystal of remembrance to drop, per person.
12 man t2 challenge
-same as t2 except add challenge chest will give....
1. another 100% chance for rune (100k) and 2 relics (t6), and
2. a guaranteed 100% chance for at least two people to get a teal/gold item, and a good chance that item will be gold (teal/gold is 40/60
3. a 15% chance for a tarnished symbol of the elder king/crystal to drop per person, and
4. a 10% (too high?) chance for a crystal of rememberance to drop per person.
These numbers don't necessarily solve everything people are complaining about, but it does help the question of whether or not at least SOMEONE will get something at the end of the run. Everything besides the t1 3 mans guarantees that one item (jewellery/armor) drop at the end. The rarity goes up as the challenge increases. I also ensured gold items can only be acquired from challenge modes, which is how it should be.
Ps. A problem with this itemization is BG farming, which will trivialize receiving crystals and tarnished symbols.
ummm... worn symbols were for lvl 75. I don't think raiders would be happy about that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth
c'mon! nostalgia ftw!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlor
fixed ty :)
Rock,
I see where you said skraids should not be in this open loot system, but apparently they are. We did some skraids the other night and loot was random, only things coming up to "roll" on in final chest were runes and relics, symbol auto went to one person, relics on final boss body only went to one (where it used to go to all), and LT's left and right were dropping random loot for each person (relics, crystals, bounties, or nothing at all for some unlucky people in the raid).
Everyone in raid ended up with 4-8 banners from the encounters, instead of just four banners dropping, to be handed out or open rolled on.
So I don't think to say skraids are not in this new loot system is really accurate? Maybe they weren't meant to be, but they seem to be somewhat in -- halfway at least.
Hello RockX
Thanks again for communicating with us here on the forums.
Generally speaking, I like the mechanics of the remote looting from chests. Having folks get their own shot at something from a chest regardless of others in the run couldn't be more fair. This also discourages undermanning things for more chance at loot, which is probably a good thing; also it discourages stacking class types for more favorable loot chance to the stacker, which is absolutely a good thing. So good job.
On the in-game check between receiving an incomparable gear piece vs a rare gear piece, I feel like the odds could be stacked a little more in favor of incomparables when T2C is completed in these instances. Like I've run a lot of 3mans T2C, and if I had to throw a number out there I'd say I see 3 or 4 purples drop for every teal. That said I realize we've got to keep chasing carrots 'til February, and locks haven't been implemented this time so low chance at extra-shinies is all that'll keep us busy. Now, personally I like chasing shiny carrots and just doing content, but I gotta have folks to run with. I'm afraid that getting nothing but bounties and trash purples is gonna discourage folks from running stuff.
A couple specific requests of mine:
-There's no incomparable might piece from Great Goblin's right now. Only a Vit-power-parry pocket item. Could you take the rare item Brosh's Cloak and make like Brosh's Less-smelly Cloak or something as a teal?
-Would you consider making incomparable versions of the Fornost loot and adding them into the Fornost loot lists in the same manner that the loot from U9 is done? Not every piece would be competitive with what is currently available, but like if you took the rare Bracelet of Fornost, scaled it up to item level 96 and added a stat dose to make it incomparable, it could have like 113 might, 38 vitality, 59ish ICPR, 768 crit. That's close to the current very popular Bangle of Echoing Battle--I'm certain some captains and such would be tempted to run Fornost for that, especially considering people only got 3 shots a week at the Bangle. I think compared to the ease with which undermanned T1 Skraids and stuff are completed, that having item level 96 incomparables in Fornost would be reasonable. Those instances still need some help.
-We're still lacking incomparable, item level 96 might and vitality necklace drops from any 85 instance. And agi classes only get 1 shot a week at looting a pocket item of that quality. U9 is out and done, just please keep these disparities in mind with U10.
Thanks
just want to add my voice to those saying Skraid loot is messed up, and 3 man loot is inadequate, esp on t2.
The lack of an Incomparable Might cloak from Seat of the Great Goblin was noticed by QA, but we didn't have the time to fix it for Update 9. It'll start dropping in 9.1. As an aside, it's called Brosh's Embroidered Cloak, with an enhanced dose of Might compared to the rare version. Whether it's less smelly I'll leave to all of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer
As for Fornost loot, it's certainly something I'm considering. No promises there though.
Also, thanks for the heads-up everyone regarding Skirmish Raids partially using Remote Looting -- I'll look into that.
Keep the feedback / questions coming, and I'll answer as I'm able!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
Kudos to you!
I'd love to comment on the loot available from the U9 instances, but since I have not gotten a single thing from chests other than bounties, I'd probably lose my posting privileges if I wrote what I'm thinking.
The corpses of the bosses in Barad Guldur use the old roll/pass loot system (rather than the remote loot thingie). The devil is in the little details :)
Imo there should be a guarantee to get either an IXP rune or a relic, you were never certain of getting much more than that anyway
Here is my main problem with the way update 9 changed loot.
Quest item drops have been severly messed with alot. In most cases since update 9 your toon actually has to do the death kill blow to get a quest drop or class book page drop to be generated on a mobs corpse for that toon. Some of you might be fine with that , but what if your toon is in a group and your the healer or the lowest dps the chances your gonna get a quest drop or page drop reduce to almost to nil. You still get xp and regular loot and silver but no quest or page, what a utter fail.
My question here is, are the symbols in BG dropping off of trash? I've seen people spamming for "BG Farming runs" in Elendilmir's GLFF, and I was a little confused b/c I expected only bosses would have a chance to drop symbols, and killing bosses locks you until reset. But 12 symbols dropping in a single run sounds more like trash drops to me, unless they cleared fully and got multiple symbols off each boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiltenRose
Also, I've yet to see whether Sammath Gûl or any of the small fellowship instances are supposed to have a chance to drop one (I would hope at a minimum SG T2 Challenge would have a chance to drop one off of Gorothul, just like he did at 65). Can any one confirm yet?
Thanks for the response again RockX! I hope the Fornost thing wouldn't take an unreasonable amount of work.
Have you decided whether or not drops from U10 will be a step up in terms of item level? If so then making item level 96 teals drop from Fornost probably would be less enticing than having those teals drop at this current time.
They got multiple symbols off each bossQuote:
Originally Posted by Beorhtred
The trash don't drop symbols
There are no locks.
EDIT: In response to what you were quoting, there are no purples from BG, except for the world drops that all trash can possibly drop
I haven't heard of SG dropping symbols myself, but I've still got an open mind as I haven't run it enough to say yea or nay.
Is the golden guardian ring in the game at all? I found the cloak at Seat of the Great Goblin and someone else found it in Sammath Gûl so it's not tied to a specific cluster.
I fail to see how this is any better than the old roll/pass loot system, most people still get worthless trash like bounties and that's it and there's not even a guaranteed teal gear drop at the end of a T2 CM instance, not to mention it looks like T4-5 relics and small IXP runes share a loot table with teal gear pieces which is just stupid.
I hope not a lot of resources was spent on this "feature" if you can even call it that. It's getting a little annoying that every update Turbine tries to fix things that aren't broken and making them worse.
Did a few more runs today.
All 3 of the new 3 mans for the first time, each one t2Challenge, overall loot for me was:
6(ish) bounties of course.
2 50k ixp runes
1 Relic removal scroll
1 Trash purple earring
Also did 3 BG runs on friday, loot:
1 Relic removal scroll
1 Crystal
Bounties
------------------
As a 3 man group (same for all 3) we didn't see a single bit of decent gear loot on any of the runs. Pretty disappointing considering by the old system we wold have had a guaranteed 3 teal drops, plus a lot more ixp and runes AND more extra purple stuff to choose from.
This new system needs to be a LOT more generous with the ixp and relics, remove all of it from the loot table and replace the minimum ixp with at least 300k runes (this woulda meant 600k across 3 hard modes for me, not over the top when you look at StH etc). The relics should only exist as at least tier 6 considering current levels. Receiving 1 tier 4 relic is sad considering level 65 3 mans drop what, 13 in one run?
Finally leave the chance at jewels etc on an individual basis, but please add a guaranteed nice random teal item to the end boss chest, to be rolled on by the group. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to receive no reward for completing hard modes. This system is basically fulfilling what it was originally aimed at preventing: a lack of rewards.
Finally there's a fellow warden in my kin who has done BG a few times and had 3 of the nice tank bracelets drop (teal). In the end he gave me one which was really nice of him, but this imbalance in the loot system has got to go away.
no locks? that's surprising. is that tier 1 only or both tiers?
Well we did tier 1 on friday a few times and I'm not sure of the details on t2 as I haven't had time to get in on an official raid yet :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Beorhtred
Didn't take par tin the farming until Sapience confirmed the locks were WAI though, as it seemed a bit silly to me to be able to farm 'easy' symbols. Although it seems I have about the same luck as every other form of the game in that department!
This. I've done BG over 50 times by now and I just got a symbol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sthrax
Other than that, ALL I got was bounties. No relics, no runes, no gear, no nothing. Just bounties.
That's very discouraging.
concerning relics:
at level 85, having 9 tiers of relics to grind through nowadays... all level 85 instances should be dropping tier 7+ relics. this tier 5 and 6 stuff should be dropping in the level 65 instances, NOT the 75+ instances
No locks on T2 either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beorhtred
Got 5 Symbols and 2 Crystals on Durchest. That's pretty good for a 15-min run. :)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-i...chest-Loot.jpg
First Rock, thank you very much for being so responsive on itemization, its a really important part of the game for some of us, and I for one have really appreciated your comments.
My problem at the moment is how bad the chest situation is in Dungeons. Have you run this challenge? I did it with kin last night, and it was a very challenging run, but due to some strange chest rules, if you get challenge, you only get the challenge chest. The challenge chest doesn't drop anything for us (as you said its just legendaries, never seen one drop), and the other two chests you don't get. Is this by design? To make the hardest run have only one ending chest? As its currently laid out, you'd only get the regular chest if you fail challenge. I'd never be able to see the other loot from there!
I think Durchest in BG is really an exploit with no locks on it and not bound loot.
Big kins do it in an infinite loop and got dozens of symbols, crystals, all blue loots
(once everyone got them, they make a huge amount of money at AH, a lot more than Harwick repeatable exploit !)
I don't understand at all the Turbine logic.
Relic removal scrolls did drop before. Got one from school/library.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlor
Anyway, I'd talk about the loot, but it's already been said.
As quoted above by Kingault, I also already got dozens of Relic removal scrolls by farming School/Lib (replaces Stat Tome in loot table of these instances)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlor
Pugs are perfectly capable of doing this too. And if a blue name says the no locks is intentional, it ain't an exploit no matter how much you wish it to be. But, you do realise this has caused the price of symbols to drop pretty dramatically? If any money is being made, it won't be for long as the market gets saturated and everyone and their mother has a 2nd ager. I don't quite get the logic of no locks so people can get loads of marks and medallions, but I certainly get the logic of making symbols easy to acquire. Means more people will need to buy relic removal scrolls in the store. Oh and relics happen to be on sale in the store as well of course! [/cynic]Quote:
Originally Posted by Castorix
I do wonder if the marks and medallions drop rates will be nerfed (perhaps by orders from on high rather than by RockX's own initiative).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothirieth
After all, filling our barter wallets with marks and medallions means we don't even need to think about using the store for Empowerment and Delving Scrolls. On the other hand, loading us up with shiny new LIs and far fewer marks may push some people to the Store.
I've had the exact same thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestache
.
.
Suppose I should add my feedback about the new system. It isn't perfect, but I think I like it better. It is frustrating to do 6 BG bosses and see one person win two symbols plus a crystal whilst all I got was some bounties and a relic (though a 3rd full run tonight broke my bad luck streak :) ), but overall the new loot system is benefiting my alliance greatly. It sure was nice that someone who already had the good caster ring from the Twins was able to trade it to me. The non-bind-on-equip gear is awesome. My alliance will be able to distribute loot fairly when it comes to more valuable stuff and this will make me much less pug allergic as I know something won't be ninjaed from me.
Whilst BG seems alright lootwise (at least you always get a bounty and relic it seems, though I'd argue T2 CM needs to be better than T1 Durchest farming), SG was pretty disappointing: not a single teal for anyone the whole run. That seems a bit off. Same for Iorbar's Peak T2.
Indeed it is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven-EU
The specifics of the stats for the gear in U10 is still somewhat in the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer
SG won't drop symbols, as it's a 6-man.
Aah yes, Dungeons. Thanks for reminding me of all the reasons why I didn't like running that instance on Live before-hand :DQuote:
Originally Posted by interactii
I will look deeper into how the instance is giving its rewards, the chests in that space are definitely quite special and I apparently didn't take that into enough consideration. Thanks for the heads-up!
Thank you for your feedback -- and to everyone else who I didn't directly quote by doing a slight necro on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothirieth
I do agree that completing T2 CM of BG should be more rewarding than just T1 Durchest farming. I'm looking at the drop rates as a whole of everything, and adjusting where I feel is needed. And before anyone comes in and says "you don't really care about our feedback," I'm directly using feedback from this thread in my adjustments :)
While I can't really go into the exact specifics with numbers etc., I will say I will be increasing the chance of getting an IXP rune or relic, among other things.
Two more things:
A) The chance of getting a relic / IXP rune is COMPLETELY independent from getting a piece of equipment.
B) Seat of the Great Goblin is currently calling the Legendary items from the Dol Guldur cluster. This has already been fixed on our internal servers.
Oh, while you're at fixing DG legendaries dropping from Erebor instances, I've seen the Malledhrim Warden Cloak drop from Scuttledells and the RK pocket item (I think that's malledhrim but I dont remember) drop from Iobar's Peak. Never bugged it, didn't see it as a big dealQuote:
Originally Posted by RockX
xrockx while your at it I would like to post my thoughts on loot. I ran iorbar peak t2 and beat challenge 9 times. in those 9 times nothing has dropped from the challenge chest. only twice was a teal dropped but I think the challenge quest is pointless if this is how the drop rates are going to be. you said t2 substantially increase the drop rate for teals? im just hoping you adjust the rate of challenge quest drops. thanks. also....
xrockx you have made some interesting loot tables but I think the legendary quality gear as it is concerned should be uniform in terms of either horse-lord or not if its armor and should have set bonuses. that's my thought because I have worked hard to get 2 horse lord pieces already but for the lore master the legendary drop in the mirkwood instances is a malledhram shoes I believe? if so its like im sacrificing my set bonuses off of the inferior hytbold set for the legendary quality armor that has edge since they have no bonuses themselves. thanks
People beat the instance once for fun, but they repeat is for the rewards. Why would anyone do the the same instance many times if there was no loot they were going for? Is it going to be challenging or fun the second time after you figured out how to beat it? Of course not!Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar6
I am sorry, I wasn't intending to bash you guys hard on this per-se, but reading this, I just have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
So, from one of the earlier dev diaries where you explained the instance finder and the motivation behind it, namely: people only running Sword Halls and Grand Stair ad nauseum, I took it you guys were very aware of the fact that Dungeons was probably the least run instance of the lot. Now you come in here and say you didn't like to run it, either.
And with both of that in mind, you guys manage to make the challenge even MORE a one-shot fest of elves? Who IN THE WORLD would be, I am sorry, but STUPID enough, with the knowledge of just why it sucked so hard before to run through the thing for half an hour only to get your elves killed by an unfortunate sequence of eyes and fears, to add three TROLLS on top of that that manage the feat in the first three seconds of spawning?
Are you guys seriously considering that an improvement? And incentive to run this instance again any time soon, even? I simply don't understand what kind of thought process is behind stuff like this, if it should be a thought process at all.
Also, I have actually run this a lot (I happened to LIKE it before - as in before - I won't be running this utterly moronic version again) so I can tell you that it is intended and always has been, that only one of the chests is lootable. They even have tooltips to state so. I should have thought that stuff like that was documented well enough in your code base, but apparently not. Explains a lot of the current situation, if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
SNy
@level 65 it did. I think bosses 3 & 4 should on T2, which a higher chance from boss 4 since that's "challenge".Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
Dungeons challenge should as well.
After all difficulty wise it is harder than BG's Durchest on Tier 1. And it's nice to have options...
Something I just realized:
The way it was in RoI and RoR, there were existing but rather limited sources of 2nd Age symbols at launch. Pretty much the only people who had them were people lucky enough to win them in PUG skirm raids or people either skirming or doing Draigoch regularly with a static group. Until the Isengard instance cluster came out, I don't think anyone was really swimming in more symbols than they could use. Symbols from Foundry and ToO increased the number significantly, but you still saw lots of casual folks using old gear or 3rd Ages until Great River put them in the skirm camp and gave them out for doing the epic.
In RoR, you had a slim chance from Bugud and the same rate from skirms, so for two months again the only people who had them were people who got lucky in Bugud or PUG skirm raids or people who skraided with a regular group. Now, with Zergchest on full farm mode for tons of people, the symbols are flowing like wine. Already the AH price has dropped substantially and it's only going to be a short time before everyone willing to and capable of running BG T1 is going to have way more symbols than they could ever use, which will result in symbols becoming so cheap the market will be even more saturated than it EVER was in RoI, even once you could just walk over to the skirm camp to get one.
It's fine for now, because of the relative symbol drought we've had for two months, but as soon as you release the next expansion you can bet that people are going to be doing Durchest symbol farming runs on day 1, which will totally wreck an entire tier of LI advancement in the community. It will be made a step even worse if 1st Age symbols will be available in scaled OD.
Foundry and isengard 3mans did as well, so it's a really unfortunate change. Untill recently my PC simply couldn't handle raid-size instances very well (especially skirmishes), and i'm sure there are more people like that, so they are basically reduced to buying symbol instead of trying to get it themselves, it's pretty sad... With hytbold armor it seemed like the step into right direction, and now with this policy on symbols it's a huge setback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlor
We got 2 Blue Items and a bunch of Medallions and Marks. The 2nd run we had 1 Blue item (a pair of blue slippers lol). I heard ppl getting the Symbol to drop as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by vtravi
Drop Symbols? No. Star-lits, not Symbols.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon-Biter
SG of old dropped Symbols, but apparently Symbols are either reserved for one-person luck-outs or (intended) 12-person content. Not sure I see the merit there, but whatever. It's clear the devs don't get it. There is no itemization consistency in this game ever.
Turbine, you have precious little end-game content. Creating the easy-mode path via T1 Durch has simply funneled all your former daily instance farmers into a separate instance. I've seen gold legendary items drop from failed challenges in T2 3-mans. I've only seen a legendary come from T2C Durchest, not Twins or LT challenges. If you think bumping up challenge tables to always give a rune or relic is the type of reward v. difficulty disparity that can fix things, you're more out of touch than I even thought.
You rewrite the book on itemization with regard to what type of instance holds which types of rewards every single update. I'm trying to think if it's ever made sense... Probably up to and through DN things made sense (even in the age of uber Moria armor). Since then, not really.
I've seen 10+ symbols drop in foundry, and some in every major patch of RoI, I can't speak to whether they still drop however. I only ran the three mans a handfull of times at most, so I never saw any drop, but I *heard* that they were dropping for a while before they were removed from the loot-tables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpa
Interesting. Our kin members made hundreds of runs through the Foundry. I don't ever recall hearing of a Symbol drop, much less seeing one.Quote:
Originally Posted by spelunker
Exactly. If harder content takes twice as long, the rewards have to be more than twice as good to encourage people to do it. You have to compensate for wipe risk, and just the justification to actually concentrate rather than watching Netflix with /follow during a faceroll. The notion of "increasing the chance of getting an IXP rune or relic" is laughably useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by john_anthony
It's not hard to anticipate or figure this stuff out. It just seems like so much of this stuff is just first principles of game design. Maybe I'm being too harsh. If RockX tells us what the actual drop rates are, and if they are substantially differentiated between T1, T2, T2C I will eat crow, but from my observations from multiple runs at each level T1 is not less than half of T2.
Iorbar’s Peak and BG both drop the legendary quality Captain shield as well. It doesn't seem like any of them are working correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
Our kin members did hundreds of Foundry runs. I don't recall ever hearing of (and definitely never saw) a Symbol drop in there. Maybe that's a Special E-only thing, eh? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by spelunker
Nope, my first symbol was from there on Dwarrowdelf. I also saw a number drop from 3-mans. I do think the drop rate was greatly reduced after update 6, but nobody cared because they were in skirm camps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpa
with update 9 there is really no incentive to run anything other than t1 durchest over and over. great job turbine devs.
Instance-unique loot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souku
Yellow OD armor-sets T2 Wing gated. The In Your Absence instances are still my favorite, and at the time of their release were quite awesome in terms of mechanics and difficulty. Not mention some great rewards for completion.
That's certainly a necessity or however a nice thing to do, but it won't be a doorbuster for the new endgame at all. But I suppose that's been said. I think what's interesting for us out there is the "among other thing" that you mention. That's what's gonna decide for better or for worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
Not sure how to read that. Is that what's gonna be or is that today's status?Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
So much truth it hurts.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNy-lotrolinux-EU
Grrrr...
There are many reasons why I don't do skirms, raids and the like, but hey it was after Rohan, there has been expansions, patches, fixes, surely loot would behave decently.
So after several of my Kin asked me to please help out, and against my better judgment I conceded and joined them. I was obliged to guzzle potions, have my gear beat up, and then finally success, the thrill of victory, time to hit the good ole chest and get my reward: 127 silver
127 silver? You got to be kidding me, all I got was chump change for all that hell?
Well, now I remember why I don't skirm or raid...
Sue
This^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by SNy-lotrolinux-EU
I have never run Dungeons. No one wants to run it. "It's not worth it" or " I'm not going through that again" , are what people say to me. I HATE deeds I can't complete or in this case even get.
I guess you didn't notice that each mob drops about 100 silver... So one durchest run will get you about 2 gold and that is not even looking at the vendor trash you'll get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acasta
RockX - perhaps the simplest solution to the general disappointment that people are feeling regarding beating the challenge modes is to guarantee at least one teal item after beating a Challenge, and make that independent of the individual loot rolls.
What I mean by that is this (using a 3-man as an example):
1) Champ, Captain, RK beat Iorbar's Peak Challenge;
2) A "behind the scenes" roll is done to determine who gets a teal item;
3) Once the class/winner is determined, a secondary roll is done to see if that teal becomes an epic item;
4) The item is assigned;
5) Apply existing loot rules to all three people.
Yes, this could mean that the winner of the guaranteed teal gets a second one, but I think that people would be happier getting two items instead of zero, even if that second item is redundant.
Increase the number of guaranteed teals for 6-mans and 12-mans (perhaps two for 6-mans and three or four for 12-mans).
Include Symbols in the "teal loot" table. Do not include relics and ixp runes in that table.
any info on those gold crafted bracelets? did anyone get 1 of those yet? do the recipes even drop?
This is how it currently works in-game. The chest checks each potential IXP, Relic, star-lits, etc. individually. The game also does separate checks to see if you get gear. Each check is completely independent from the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by GithlithMonaghan
That's how it usually worked beforehand too, it's just everything was in one big pile before, while now each player gets their own pile.
As for the idea of 'guaranteeing a Teal drop which is handled normally with Master Loot in addition to the individual loot for each player,' while not a bad idea, it isn't something we can currently do. The ideas are certainly appreciated though!
Depends what the devs' goal would be if they followed this. Granted, I do think the rewards should be better for the later bosses and for T2 and C.Quote:
Originally Posted by john_anthony
If they followed your suggestion, T1 Durchest farms would stop, which is the goal for some. But then what? What do you want people to do in place of that? When all the rewards for every instance are sub-par, then what? Think of all the scaled instances where there are no desirable rewards, such as GB, Fornost, Annuminas - they scale to cap but few people run them compared to "back in the day" when they were frequently run because they had loot that people wanted.
Anyway, I would like to see an incentive to go past Durchest, which means more rewards for the Twins and the LT, like LT T2C you should be guaranteed a symbol and a crystal and a high percentage chance at a gold. I suggest this because, with no locks, you're going to be spending 4 or more hours raiding.
No worries - was just a thought (although I never mentioned Master Loot; I was hoping that it could be handled automatically like the rest of the loot - I'm not on the "give us Master Loot!" bandwagon ;) ).Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
Basically, would it be fair to describe it as 10 separate dice rolls per player that you either succeed or fail on to get an item from that pool?Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
Relics (1), Relics (2) (I cant remember what the 2 teirs are but each tier of relics seems to be a seperate roll)
Teal Equip (3), Relic Removal (4), Stat tome (5), Star Lit (6), Rembrence (7), IXP (8), TSoC (9) LEGENDARY QUALITY ITEM (10) (I dont know if 10 and 3 are seperate rolls. I've never seen anyone win #10, let alone both 10 and 3 in the same chest)
Yes it was a Full T2CM BG clear that dropped 12 symbols for us. 3 from Durchest, 2 from Twins and than 7 from LT. But since the hot fix last week, BG T2CM full clear, the most we have seen is 7 symbols, but have now seen 3 Gold Items drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beorhtred
The hot fix had nothing to do with the remote looting system as far as we know. Did BG T2 and BG T1 and what's sad....T1 we actually got the champ gold boots twice. T2.....still waiting for the gold. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesm429
You make a very valid point. The problem is that the mechanics of MMORPGs cultivates a culture of materialism where acquiring bigger and better loot becomes the raison d'être. It's very unfortunate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar6
Personally I like the current loot system. I think it's great that each player has the possiblity of getting something nice or nothing at all, instead of only one or two players taking all. That wasn't really fair. Also the way it was before, the roll was too easily exploited.. people were rolling before entering into a raid or group and the way it was working is that start from low to high and start over again. I also do not think the Durchest drop rate needs to be decreased. The only reason people are getting items is due to the sheer volume of how many times people run the raid.
heyas folks,
I just wanted to mention to rethink the "exemplary" items bonus one more time.
I've posted it already in the Guardians Board, but please let me get straight, that compared to all other classes, guardians do have a lack of tanking bonus from their golden items.
Compared to thinks like: +4% fire dmg, or +16% crit multiplier, 5% more positional dmg, 3% critmulti for subtle stab, etc.
are nice....
but...
5% more heal from CaB and +3% more dmg from sweeping cut...is nothing really interesting for a tank. It is less than interesting.
3% more Threat from leg. Shield-Smash or 50% more CaB Healing would be something comparable to above mentioned Boni!
When you give the burglars 5% more capability of their class (dps) then pls give the tanks 5% more Threat.
Or another 5s on Pledge...
pls reconsider this once again.
If level-cap increases are now a yearly thing (and subsequent gear obsolescence) - and if Turbine continues to fail at the reward v challenge continuum, a large number of players are simply going to get loot by the path of least resistance. Happens every time and it's happening now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer
It would have been better if challenge completions at least had a 50% chance to drop a yellow item for some class (not even necessarily a class in on the run). At least people would see the potential in front of their face. What do they see now? "Bounty: Seargent-at-Arms". You tell me how that is motivating?
I'd much rather see a hot piece I couldn't use drop than actually receive something I can vendor for 112 Sliver.
And it also stands to reason that because T1 Durch is such an easy path, people are going to be less interested in T2. This is also happening now.
The guarantee was practically there in old runs. In non auto-loot instances I'd guess a teal would drop for *someone* more times than not. Take foundry... it was actually quite rare to not have a teal drop. The challenge chest was pretty much guarenteed one.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
As for "base loot" I'll call it, go back and run through NCF & Stoneheight in their old level 65 forms on live and see what kind of loot you get. Crazy amounts of of runes and relics. THAT is what should be guarenteed. The roll should be on what level of said items you get. But regardless you should always get one of them from a chest.
Ran tier 2 challenge... only got bounties. Screw ever doing that ever again.
OR
Ran tier 2 challenge... no teals but at least I got a tier 8 relic from the challenge chest.
^ One of those is better.
I'm starting to think the drop rate for the teals in the new stuff might be too low. 29 runs of peak, and I've never actually seen a teal drop for any player, much less a gold, but so many of the purples they are not even worth a gold now. The challenge chest has never dropped anything good that I've seen either. It's getting hard to keep FF's interest in running them, but hopefully in time. I had to buy the one bracelet I have from there.
I wish there was actually some useful stuff to buy with marks and meds, it would make these runs more attractive to more hardcore folks.
Just want to comment on this: all my toons have enough IXP stocked up to level a First Age, multiple FAs in fact, and deeds and decons keep giving me more. I'm about to the point where next time I need to create space in my vault I will toss a stack on the floor. More relics please, of T7 and T8 levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockX
Tiny question within this whole subject: Do golden items drop at Durchest T1? Because even after at least 50 runs each with 12 players I have not seen one class-item drop. That is at least 600 chances for a golden item without one single drop. Is that actually mathematically possible? Or are dropchances even worse than 1/600?
Yes golden items drop at Durchest T1. It is mathematically possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by GithlithMonaghan
I find it odd that stat tomes seem more common than these items thus far.
RockX, just to let you know are maybe remind you, when Mirkwood came out, Symbols did drop in the 6 man SG and when you guys scaled School/library, GB and Annuminus, they dropped from there too. That is why I believe people believed they would still drop now in SG.
I don't necessarily have a problem with the quality of the loot itself, my issue with the new system is that it does not reward a greater challenge. By that I mean that I can essentially run something on T1 and seemingly have the exact same shot at the exact same loot as if I ran it on T2. As has been stated before, the equation for repeating content is not solely based on challenge, but a combination of challenge and loot. There needs to be better incentive to run greater/harder challenges.
I've run the three mans on T1 and T2 doing challenge on the second one and have perceived no discernable difference in the loot table. I've received teal pieces on T1 and teal pieces on T2. In BG, you get teal pieces on T1 along with symbols, crystals, etc. In fact, the only seeming difference between running T1 and T2 is a slightly less miserable chance at a gold piece. And the only gold piece that I've seen so far among my regular raiders came from a T2 IP run.
Again, it's been said before, but at least with the old loot system, you knew that there was a shiny teal piece at the end of a T2 run. And for the three mans, there was even a shot at a symbol. If this was possible under the old loot system, then why is it not possible under the new as RockX has said? It seems a step backwards to me.
I won't argue that folks don't go by the path of least resistance to get what they want, because they do. I think T2C instances, even with assuming double the chance at golds (2 vs 1 chests, and double very very little is still very little), are only being run in some cases because certain T2Cs still offers little resistance (Iobars, etc). Though obviously nobody rational goes into T2C BG driven by a favorable time:benefit ratio.Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpa
But I challenged his specific exaggeration that there's no incentive to do anything but T1 Durchest. It's a low resistance path, but folks don't necessarily get all they want from there.
Durchest has no:
-Might rings
-Vit Rings
-Might (DPS) bracelets
-Will bracelets
-Agi bracelets
-Will earrings
-Vitality earrings
-Agi earrings
-Necklaces of any kind
-Might pockets
-Agi pockets
-Vit pockets
Simply put, if people like hunting shinies, there's reason to do more instances than T1 Durchest.
RockX, could you please check if the Captain gold earring in currently dropping? So far no one has reported getting it and the captain shield appears to be dropping in all the new instances as well as the scaled Mirkwood cluster.
Got a captain in my kin with 1 of those earrings. Ridfarwood, though I don't know why my.lotro says otherwiseQuote:
Originally Posted by phillbvi2
You can keep on farming, the [Earring of the Exemplary Captain] does drop. I've seen at least 3-4 captains using it on Snowbourn.Quote:
Originally Posted by phillbvi2
Though I get why you ask. I've done 50+ IP T2C runs and haven't even seen the bracelet drop yet. Getting my rune-keeper fire-cloak feels like a drag.
So if they are dropping, I guess the real question is where does it drop from? Captains have reported getting the shield from every single one of the new instances as well as the new scaled mirkwood ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer
Oughta drop from all the Erebor instances. That fella got his from IP.Quote:
Originally Posted by phillbvi2
Captain shield seems to be dropping from the Mirkwood stuff (I got mine from Warg Pens), but I think it might be mistakenly dropping from Erebor stuff too. I've seen a Malledhrim RK item drop from Iobars and Malledhrim Warden cloak from Scuttledells, which I don't think was intended. I don't suspect that's blocking us from getting Exemplary items, but I may be wrong.
About the teal drop rate in new system, especially in 3 and 6 man.
After doing 25-30 T2 CM Iobar's Peaks, 5 Sword Halls T2 CM, 5 Webs of the Scuttledells T2 CM, 5 Seat of the Goblins Seat T2 CM I did loot 1 teal (earring from sword hall)... Normaly I would say I had no luck, but in 90% cases I did those 3man with my friends and they didnt get even a single teal in these runs with me. So runs I did its 1 teal item per 40-45 3man T2 with Challeng per 3 ppl. It is around 2-2,5% drop rate per team (0,7-0,8 per man)!!! I know being a bit more lucky geting extra teal and we would have 5% drop rate but on the other hand I know ppl who still didnt see teal droping in 3man. This is insane especially compared to what we had in RoI's 3man. There was a huge chance (by huge I mean 10-15 teals or more in 20 runs) of geting teal from T2 CM, of course from time to time we won item meant not for any of classes in the team but still chance to get useable teal was around 40-60%...
So now we have this remote looting which is great but not with such chance to get teal. My question is was it so hard to take old teal drop rate and just devide it by 3 as there is 3 ppl in 3man so averagly there would be the same amount of teals (general).
Realy I am disapointed, I have this feeling that Turbine's workers lack of some kind math education. And no in my opinion its no time for experimentation for drop rate. 3man are here since Library and School, the drop rate should be known long time ago and slightly improved if need not learn from 0 like it looks now... And new loot system also isnt a reason for me of that, as it was enought to take drop rates from RoI's instances and devide it but 3,6 or 12 as loot is now for each person not for the team...
It is a question of chance.
For example, a friend got the Athgrat's Polished Ring just by trying a simple T1 run of Warg-pens...
I did 5 tier 1 Dungeons runs in the last couple days. Saved enough prisoners to open the biggest chest in all of them. All I got at the very end was 1 sealed tier 5 relic and 5 bounties. The worst part is that nobody else in the groups got anything better either. There were zero equipment drops in total, not even purples. I don't know, maybe that is your intention. But there was a time when you could do the instance in its easiest form and still get a lot of relics and IXP, with at least 1 equipment from each chest.
Oh, don't get me wrong though. I have been seeing a lot of new teals around. The auction house is overflowing with Gwannin, Charred Armour Fragments, Earring of the Necromancer's Tower, Eternal Knights Bracelet... What do those all have in common? Durchest. All of those are from Durchest. People are farming it on Tier 1 like mad, for the currency and crystals. There are half a dozen groups running it at any given time. People have started giving these items away to first tells.
A 3 year old raid encounter is being run many times more than all of your new small fellowship instances combined, because once again the reward/effort ratio is just so ridiculously skewed in some instances that running others is just pointless.
I can only hope the second half doesn't end up like this.
There is nothing for me anyway. No agility bracelets. No agility necklaces. No agility pockets. No decent agility earring except that one from BG Twins (ha ha ha. yeah, right).Quote:
Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer
I have absolutely no idea what there is for Burglars and Hunters in this update. Boots? More boots?
Hunting for the new shinies is a massive waste of time either way, considering the shinies are either very rare or very undesirable. You'll be getting no drops whatsoever for 50 runs, then end up finding that &&&&e shiny that you didn't want.
Durchest at least rewards you for your time input with currency and crystals. Too bad I haven't run it at all yet because I have already overdosed on it during 2010.
loot? for every step forward take 10 steps backwards for loot. Its almost predictable....
Sounds to me like you just don't like hunting shinies if rarity deters you, even while the drop rate is lower than maybe it oughta be.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonwalkIntoMordor
But as for what Agis get: yeah there's Prudence from Twins. Don't know why you're laughing. Dead server?
Former Resident's Ring from Dungeons. Just get a group and rip through T2 non challenge once every 8 minutes. Eventually you get lucky.
There's Marubh's Something Bracelet from GG. Don't remember what it has besides 150 agi. Either 75 vit 38 fate or 75 fate 38 vit. Probably not more appealing than Huntsman, probably moreso than Footpad. Dunno your gear.
That's better than me as a might class, who basically just needed might rings and a pocket to upgrade. If I had owned a flask already, the journal pocket wouldve been a sidegrade.
I do think teal drop rate oughta be tweaked. I wouldn't ever argue that the loot chance in U9 isn't in a rough state. Like I said earlier in this thread, the teal-to-purple ratio in the check that occurs after it's been determined that loot was won oughta be shifted more in teal's favor.
Despite too-low drops rates, the fellow who said that only Durchest is worth running thanks to Turbine was apparently ignoring that other content offers potential rewards that Durchest simply does not yield. And if someone wants those other rewards enough, they'll grind the content to get them. Which was the entire point of what you quoted.
I must confess that I am perplexed as to why Turbine have always found itemisation so hard. By 'itemisation' I don't just mean the design of the items but the overall effort/time/difficulty/reward ratio in instances.
Rockx is clearly a good guy. We all greatly appreciate the level of his engagement on the forums and he obviously both means well and works hard. Which means there is something else wrong, either some insurmountable difficulty or complication I don't get, or some deep cultural/design problem in Turbine.
I ran all three new 3-man the other day with a GRD/CPT and me on CMP. T2C modes for these are hard, especially in Scuttledells. They take time and effort. This is good, I'm not complaining. But from around 4 hours of play we got nothing other than deed completion medallions, bounties and a feeling of satisfaction. There is no reason to go back. It is very dispiriting. We had this with Fornost. I'll run anything once or twice for novelty, the new experience and deeds. But after that there has to be some sort of reward and a bounty doesn't cut it.
Why are we still having these discussions nearly six years after launch?