Seriously considering a warden but a few questions.

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Originally Posted by angelbound

So gandald to hide his powers, now that actually makes sense, therefor lotro can probably have more magic then it shows. And I am not really trying to justify runekeepers but what he said clearly does justify it in so many ways, and all I was saying its kind of silly you guys can accept warden animations but not runekeeper wow.

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call it magic all you want but it's not, even RK "magic" isn't officially that, RKs use the power of words that can have very real effects in Middle-Earth (this is true in lore), the rationale is that RKs aren't actually throwing flames and zapping things with lighting, they are using the power of words to cause the damaging effects of fire and lightning. the fact that the game shows you firing lightning bolts from your finger tips doesn't mean that if the game world was real it would actually show that happening. Humans like getting a reward for what they do, in this case it's a visual confirmation of what you just did, it's not actual magic, it's a very impressive light show. try playing the game without the added VFX and tell me how interesting it is to see a RK play, for most people it would it would be a big disapointment, Turbine could have had no VFX placed, but then the class would be pretty boring, just inductions and hand movements, fun? not so much for the vasy majority.

you can also call the Shield Up and Shield Mastery bubble magic, but it's not, it's just visual confirmation for YOU, it serves no purpose in game, in fact it would probably be better for the game not to use the animation as it requires more effort out designers, progamers and your computer.

you can call it magic all you like but the fact is that it isn't, it's a fancy light show for your benefit, much like fireworks on the 4th of July, would the date not be special even without all the pageantry and fireworks displays? of course it would, it's a very important date for world history in general, fireworks just make it look nice.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The effects for the Warden's skills are just that, FX. (I play with all FX turned off, so I hardly ever notice any.) They are purely for those who desire flashiness. Nothing magical implied.

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Wait? You can turn off all 'magicy' effects? How do we do that? Seriously, did I miss that option somewhere?

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Originally Posted by henry316

Wait? You can turn off all 'magicy' effects? How do we do that? Seriously, did I miss that option somewhere?

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Combat Particle Effects under either UI or Combat settings, I forget which.

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Originally Posted by angelbound

So gandald to hide his powers, now that actually makes sense, therefor lotro can probably have more magic then it shows. And I am not really trying to justify runekeepers but what he said clearly does justify it in so many ways, and all I was saying its kind of silly you guys can accept warden animations but not runekeeper wow.

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The dark powers of English are at work here, we must be cautious.

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Originally Posted by henry316

Wait? You can turn off all 'magicy' effects? How do we do that? Seriously, did I miss that option somewhere?

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Options -> UI -> Combat Effects. It'll turn off pretty much ALL player skill visual effects, so all you'll see is the character's body moving. It's pretty helpful for reducing visual lag if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by lf2536

FIFY.

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Thanks. It's been a while since I read the books and I've always been awful with names, places and dates.

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Originally Posted by lf2536

because RKs are from the dark side, Wardens are clearly Jedi.

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Don't let Jeedai hear you say that. :D

The f/x are just visual embellishments in order to spice up the action. LOTRO is based on novels, right? Let's say a writer pens something like:

"Then the young warden thrust his shield forward with all the power of a charging boar, knocking his opponent to the ground."

That sounds pretty awesome, so how would one convey that in a video game? Just have text appear stating what transpired when the skill was used? What is to separate the simple Shield Bash from Boar's Rush visually, so the two actions are distinguishable to the player and his group/opponents? How about showing a boar charging from the shield?

Video games are a visual medium, and we don't have continued narration to help move and enhance the story, so there are visual cues and guides to help narrate the action. Just because you see it on the screen does not mean it is being seen by the characters in the story, no more than characters in a film can hear the narrator telling the story, or notice other characters are running in slow-motion, etc.

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Originally Posted by ppinkham

or notice other characters are running in slow-motion, etc.

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I just call them old people

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Originally Posted by LtDiablo

I just call them old people

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Watch it, sonny!

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Originally Posted by ppinkham

Watch it, sonny!

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Damn you kids! Get off my lawn!

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Originally Posted by Jaltir

IANALM (I am not a lore monkey), but I recall a discussion in glff about magic in LoTR in which a lore monkey said that Gandalf eschewed the overt use of his powers because using his powers would allow Sauron to locate him. That is why the few times Gandalf uses magic are of the subtle variety, as you listed, or are done when the Enemy has already located him, as in the battle on Weathertop.

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Actually, that is only partially true. The other reason is that the wizards were forbidden from using their powers to control others, either through fear or other methods, as well as fighting the war for them. They were simply there to guide and to inspire and to lend aid when necessary. The wizards, the balrog, and Sauron are all actually the same kind of creature: Maia. Sauron, however, was probably granted more power by another being in the First age, as was the balrog, and neither of them had the limitations imposed upon them by a human body or the rules that the wizards followed. Also, I don't remember who said that Gandalf was probably second only to Sauron, but in one of the books (I have no idea where, whether in The Simirillion, the appendix, The Book of Lost Tales, The Unfinished Tales) it says that Gandalf was afraid of Sauron, and didn't think that he was powerful enough to help fight against him, but he was willing to go to ME because they needed him. It is cool that he became the most influential wizard in LOTR.

Regarding magic, depending on the point of view you want to assume and the definition you want to base the context on. Anything can be seen as magic.

Some definitions from dictionry.com

magic -noun- the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature.

or

magic -adjective- mysteriously enchanting; magical

So really anything could be seen as magic in lotr depending on how you view it. The fireworks used by Gandalf (he used em in the books right? been so long since I read em) would've been seen as magical, even though we know how they work. Recalling a part from the movie (yes I'm using the movie shhh can't remember the text), when wormtongue looks at the bombs created for the Uruks, he does not understand how the device works or what a bomb even is, a form of witchcraft no doubt to the medievil times or magic, but we of today know the effects of black powder.

Hey guys. What's up? What are we talking about?

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Originally Posted by gildhur

Combat Particle Effects under either UI or Combat settings, I forget which.

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Thanks to both you and Jadzi.

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Originally Posted by angelbound

When I ask in game it is not clear what a wardens role actually is, I understand it is tanking but I hear groups wont let wardens tank?

Anyways I want a class that will invite me to groups often from 20 and up, I want to be able to atleast fill more then one role. If anyone here has played eq2 could you tell me if the warden feels anything like a monk in the group? The monks in eq2 where fast very fast attackers, could tank, offheal and of course dps.

Are wardens actually fun in groups?

And lorewise where do there abilities come from? They are very flashy and look almost magical, and do you get allot of flashy melee attacks?

Lots of questions I know, but im tired of trying characters ive pretty much narrowed it down to burglar, warden, and loremaster possibly a minstrel.

I dropped my captain he has my favorite playstyle but I hated his melee style I do not like slow 2hander weapon types.

Thank you everyone.

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Both Wardens and Rune-keepers are the best choice if willing to start somethng new. Since they are "premium" classes, they will always be made desirable so they will be worth the extra money to the FtP crowd.

My concern with the RK is that I don't know how such words work during battle, or how they produce fire or lightning damage. OTOH, my main is a minstrel, so I should just shut up.

(really, it's because the RK graphics seem a little too good... hmm...)

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Originally Posted by anwar

Both Wardens and Rune-keepers are the best choice if willing to start somethng new. Since they are "premium" classes, they will always be made desirable so they will be worth the extra money to the FtP crowd.

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I don't think that's true. The classes who have gotten updates so far are Captains and Hunters, and Loremasters are up next. It's unlikely that they will nerf everyone or buff Wardens and RK's just to try to get people to purchase them, especially since anyone who plays the game for any length of time will need to buy Moria which includes them in the price.

If I were making a new character on a premium account though, I'd definitely go either Warden or Hunter. Most swift travel is currently VIP only (which is ridiculous imho), so the ability to port around is even more useful than it is to subscribers. Hunters are arguably the best class for non-VIP's because they can port, they have a run-speed buff and they grind deeds very quickly.

Well I am viip, and im sorry guys but I still think flames out of a shield is magic, you might as well called loremasters and runekeepers a nonmagic class as well.

I also think that being smashed in the face with a club by a troll & then feeling better because someone played me a song is magic too.

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Originally Posted by angelbound

Well I am viip, and im sorry guys but I still think flames out of a shield is magic, you might as well called loremasters and runekeepers a nonmagic class as well.

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I don't know what being a VIP has to do with anything, but I'm going to go with the blue name on this one. If you think otherwise, you are welcome to your opinion, but it is not the opinion of the developers of the game.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The effects for the Warden's skills are just that, FX. (I play with all FX turned off, so I hardly ever notice any.) They are purely for those who desire flashiness. Nothing magical implied.

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I'm debating two different snarky responses, so somebody pick one for me:

1. I guess Wardens are magical in the sense that beauty, elegance and cookys are magical.

2. Well I am viip, and im sorry guys but I still think pictures and sounds out of a computer is magic, you might as well called televisions and radios nonmagic as well.

Seriously though, I know it's a strange tapdance that Turbine has done to try to mash together flashy graphics and a world where magic is super-rare, but that's what is going on here. Loremasters, Runekeepers and every other class are non-magical. :) That's why all spell-like skills say tactical and not magical.

Example: You never actually take damage to your health in LotRO, you just get more and more scared until you retreat. People don't heal your health, they heal your morale. When someone "rezzes" you, they just help you calm down so you don't run away. You never actually die and get brought back to life.

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Originally Posted by tanis0

Example: You never actually take damage to your health in LotRO, you just get more and more scared until you retreat. People don't heal your health, they heal your morale. When someone "rezzes" you, they just help you calm down so you don't run away. You never actually die and get brought back to life.

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Exactly. This is why it's a game folks. If this were real life, the spider wouldn't have to attack you. You'd just faint on mere sight.

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Originally Posted by tanis0

I'm debating two different snarky responses, so somebody pick one for me:

1. I guess Wardens are magical in the sense that beauty, elegance and cookys are magical.

2. Well I am viip, and im sorry guys but I still think pictures and sounds out of a computer is magic, you might as well called televisions and radios nonmagic as well.

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both are sort of meh on the snark-o-meter.

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Originally Posted by lf2536

both are sort of meh on the snark-o-meter.

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Yeah, in hindsight I have to agree. Somebody help me out.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The effects for the Warden's skills are just that, FX. (I play with all FX turned off, so I hardly ever notice any.) They are purely for those who desire flashiness. Nothing magical implied.

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I really tried playing without FX but was thwarted by the need (fairly reasonable, all considered) to know if I was on fire. It sure would be nice if effect settings were grouped, such as:

[] Plausible (Fire, Cracked Earth, Dread, Drinking etc.)
[] Fantastical (wound fear, poison, disease, etc, some skill Effects )
[] Kiss Concert (Call of Orome etc.)
[] ZOMG, Sparkle Ponies!! (Epic Conclusion) (I <3 Sparkle Ponies!)

Caelavin,
Landroval