Female player leaving game

The people in this thread who have said they cannot judge the situation, as they do not have enough information, are wise.

You cannot assume that someone is complaining about nothing. You cannot assume that they have done something to deserve what they get. There is simply not enough information here to know what is going on. Many things are "possible" if you don't have the facts.

But at the same time, you cannot assume that the way the original poster sees things, is the same as the way you would see them, if you were in that situation.

I am familiar with the OP's situation - you could even say that I am a part of it - and my interpretation of the situation is rather different from hers. There is definitely at least one player who has teased her in the past (not me), and perhaps it has occurred again recently, but I do not believe it is related to her gender. However, there are also other factors at play.

I am not actually interested in clarifying the situation for public consumption, so I am not going to give the details you might want. If the OP wants to give more details that is up to her. But making judgements on little to no information ... is simply a show of prejudice.

As far as bullying and whatnot, Lotros got the best community of any game I have played. Most of the players are at the very least not disrespectful.

Since you didn't give any information at all, other than your gender, I'm going to just guess.

1. If you are being harassed in the only way that would warrant you bringing up the fact that you're a woman, it's most likely to only be one or two people. As others have said, /ignore and report. Or fight back. You'd be surprised what winning a public verbal spar against a sexist pig will do for you, your server, and to make him look like an ###.

2. If you are being harassed in another manner, try ignore or report as well. Now I do know that sometimes the harasser goes as far as to involve GLFF, with things like lying, saying you're a ninja looter or whatever, but if you're not, people you know will know better. Just deny it, explain the situation, and let it go.


There are absolutely ways that people can be harassed in Lotro. But the very vast majority of them can easily be overcome by ignore and report.



In my experience, woman do experience more issues in gaming than men do. It's a side effect the absence of moral boundaries on the internet (who cares right, I'll never meet them), the fact that parents use the net as a babysitter, and all the lonely people living in mommies basement. You just have to deal with it. And by deal with it, I mean ignore, say stop, make it a joke, or do the above mentioned public verbal spar.

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Originally Posted by Fledermaus

Calling female toons "bitches" is fairly routine to some players in the Moors, as is using the 4 letter r-word for sexual assault (blocked by filter) to describe defeating someone.

Homophobic slurs I've encountered were generally those of using sexual orientation as an insult. The common one is using "gay" to mean shoddy, though I've also heard it inferred that certain players must be gay because they played poorly.

Other games are, of course, far worse than Lotro. And is the case in all games, PvP here is worse than PvE. But Lotro is part of the larger gaming culture, which means you will encounter misogyny and homophobia in larger doses than you would in non-gaming leisure activities.

The only solution really is to play single-player games, or stick to your kin.

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This is something I've spent years trying to get over being bothered by. Calling females the b word doesn't bother me so much, as I use it as well. Except my usage isn't limited to females, it's pretty much everyone :p

R*** isn't funny. Ever. Half of all women and almost 25% of men will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. When you use the word r*** in every fourth sentence and you sound proud, just try and think how that is making victims feel. I've gotten to the point where I can ignore it (barely) in a PvP situation, as in beating someone in a fight, but if someone starts making r*** jokes, I rage. I'm not very nice when I rage.

Homophobic slurs don't belong here. Nor does calling people ######s. (Interesting that this word is censored. R word referring to a specific mental health diagnosis, but used mainly by small minded people to describe just about anyone.)

Gaming is full of hurtful words and phrases. The hard part about it is that so many don't even see them as hurtful.


/rant off.

If she made her mind that is nothing we can do, now if you are still around and just had some bad experience in your server come to mine, give me a shout in game, my kin leader is a lady and we always have room for people who love the game, hate the drama and are willing to help. Give me a shout in game my nick is Kantazo.

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Originally Posted by NaughtyMistress

In my experience, woman do experience more issues in gaming than men do. It's a side effect the absence of moral boundaries on the internet (who cares right, I'll never meet them), the fact that parents use the net as a babysitter, and all the lonely people living in mommies basement. You just have to deal with it. And by deal with it, I mean ignore, say stop, make it a joke, or do the above mentioned public verbal spar.

...........
This is something I've spent years trying to get over being bothered by. Calling females the b word doesn't bother me so much, as I use it as well. Except my usage isn't limited to females, it's pretty much everyone :p

R*** isn't funny. Ever. Half of all women and almost 25% of men will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. When you use the word r*** in every fourth sentence and you sound proud, just try and think how that is making victims feel. I've gotten to the point where I can ignore it (barely) in a PvP situation, as in beating someone in a fight, but if someone starts making r*** jokes, I rage. I'm not very nice when I rage.

Homophobic slurs don't belong here. Nor does calling people ######s. (Interesting that this word is censored. R word referring to a specific mental health diagnosis, but used mainly by small minded people to describe just about anyone.)

Gaming is full of hurtful words and phrases. The hard part about it is that so many don't even see them as hurtful.


/rant off.

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I am so glad you brought those things up! I can't tell you how much I hate those terms (I feel the same way about the B one..use it often too.)

There does come a time when people have to "man up" and say enough. I really think if more people did that, made those comments/terms unaccpetable, they would die out and no longer be used in glib, 'cool' speech.

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Originally Posted by NughtyMistress

Half of all women and almost 25% of men will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

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Just curious as to where this statistic is from.

Also do you get upset when you hear the phrase "the r**e of the countryside"?

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Originally Posted by Beleg-Of-Doriath

Just curious as to where this statistic is from.

Also do you get upset when you hear the phrase "the r**e of the countryside"?

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My statistics are from several years ago when I was volunteering with a organization that dealt with high-risk kids and teens. I don't have a source for you. It's also something I've seen confirmed (for me) in conversations I've had throughout the years with people I know or come into contact with through organizations such as the one above.


No, the r*** of the counrtyside doesn't bother me, in the same way. The term isn't being used to be hurtful, or to imply power over another.

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Originally Posted by HRHoftheWraithRiders

Congratulations to those folks that bullied me off the game.

I wish that the in-game moderators were as strict as the Forum Mods. However, that is not the case.

I would never let a child or a female that was young, play this game.

I have a lifetime account and to be run off the game, to be an adult and absolutely bullied and humiliated is beyond the pale. If and when Turbine corrects this I may return. In the mean time I can no longer subject myself to such harassment.

Have a great day in Middle Earth, if you can.

All the best.

Feant

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Seeing that you have in your journal on your character's page a couple of articles about cyber bulling and Turbine policies that predate this thread, please let us know what happened. Has this situation been escalating or a one time incident?

More information please because this community does help each other.

The OP started a thread in September 2011 regarding this issue. It's right here:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...t=#post5721597

Two things from it: the OP started by saying that the mods are good at what they do. Second thing, Sapience himself replied in the thread advising everyone to report behavior of that kind.

I have no idea if the OP was bullied and/or harassed. If she feels she was, report it and move on. If she feels it's so bad she needs to quit the game, so be it.

I've played in Elendilmir since launch. I've met dozens of female players throughout the years and not one have ever mentioned this to me. E is a great server and without the full details it's just unfair to reach any kind of conclusion.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by NaughtyMistress

My statistics are from several years ago when I was volunteering with a organization that dealt with high-risk kids and teens. I don't have a source for you. It's also something I've seen confirmed (for me) in conversations I've had throughout the years with people I know or come into contact with through organizations such as the one above.

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Just sounds rather high to me, one out of two women and especially one out of four men.

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Originally Posted by NaughtyMistress

No, the r*** of the counrtyside doesn't bother me, in the same way. The term isn't being used to be hurtful, or to imply power over another.

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You really believe when people say it in-game they're trying to be hurtful? Whenever I've heard it in an Ettens raid it's been pretty clear it's just a word with no meaning or hidden intent behind it - 'damn, we were r**ed, retreat to gy'.

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Originally Posted by cblues

Being FEMALE has nothing whatever to do with anything in this case.

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I disagree. The thread isn't called generically named "player leaving game" but more specifically "Female player leaving game".

The OP has made it about being female in her choice of topic title, which is the first thing attracting anyone to read and possibly post to that thread.

That all said, I of course deplore anyone engaging in bullying or hurtful behaviour to another player, which should obviously be quickly reported to the forum moderators or GMs as appropriate.

Unfortunately, without further detail from the OP, however, this thread remains simply one of "player upset and left" and leaves little room for analysis or comment.

I don't know what happened to the OP, but I'm bothered by it. Between /ignore and /report her problem should have been dealt with. If she /reported and it wasn't dealt with properly in game, then it needs to be escalated to customer support with a ticket being filed.

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Originally Posted by Fledermaus

Calling female toons "bitches" is fairly routine to some players in the Moors, as is using the 4 letter r-word for sexual assault (blocked by filter) to describe defeating someone.

Homophobic slurs I've encountered were generally those of using sexual orientation as an insult. The common one is using "gay" to mean shoddy, though I've also heard it inferred that certain players must be gay because they played poorly.

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Very simply, none of those are tolerable or permitted in Lotro in the fashion mentioned here. They are /reportable and bannable offenses- and absolutely especially when they are being purposely directed at another player. if someone slips a word here or there sometimes in frustration, I'll let it go. But if something like that shows up in chat- and it's obviously referencing another player in those fashions it's going to get /reported. Period. That is never excusable or ok, and it doesn't matter if it's PvP or not.

thankfully I've almost never seen it so haven't had to worry about it.

OP, grow up and learn to ignore. You probably have problems in RL also if someone on the internet can upset you this much. Seek help.

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Originally Posted by Beleg-Of-Doriath

Just sounds rather high to me, one out of two women and especially one out of four men.



You really believe when people say it in-game they're trying to be hurtful? Whenever I've heard it in an Ettens raid it's been pretty clear it's just a word with no meaning or hidden intent behind it - 'damn, we were r**ed, retreat to gy'.

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It may very well be high. As I said, it was several years ago and I don't have a source for it. But when you look at worldwide numbers of reported incidents, and think about how more go unreported than are reported...the number is very high, whether its 40% of 50% or whatever, it's high.

And this thread isn't about whether my numbers are right. Throwing r*** around casually isn't really cool even if the numbers were .05%.


I think in most cases in PvP, it's not meant to be hurtful. At least not in that manner. But that doesn't stop the fact that for many, it IS hurtful. Intentions only go so far.

Between the thread title, and the complete lack of any details, this reeks of Drama.

Posting here with no details draws attention to yourself, and keeps the accused comfortably hidden in a cloak of anonymity. I have been fooled too many times into feeling sorry for someone, who in the end perhaps deserved what they had received, and then cried that they were somehow being bullied. Every coin has two sides as they say; so "pics or it never happened".

Bullying is a very serious and very real problem, (which your other posts seem to suggest you understand), so please don't post about it without backing it up. It trivializes the problem...the boy who cried wolf and all that jazz.

As a female from E, I can understand your frustration. I have never been personally bullied but I've dealt with attacks and hurtful situations. My best advice to you is to take a break. Take a month off. Take two. The game will still be here and you may get a new enthused attitude about the game. Sometimes situations occur and make this game seem much more personal than it actually is.

Report them all and put them on ignore. Take a break and come back. Don't let them win, because they aren't worth it. I wish you luck. It would be a shame to lose a player who cares about the community.

Well whatever the OP's intentions were in starting this thread it is still sad that someone here in our community feels that they have to leave the game because they feel they have been bullied and harassed and can no longer tolerate it.

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Originally Posted by HRHoftheWraithRiders

Congratulations to those folks that bullied me off the game.

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I'm sorry to hear that, but don't let the bullies win. Ignore ignore ignore. Take a break if you need it, but don't leave for good. They're just getting what they want.

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Originally Posted by shann81

I've never seen bully in Lotro.

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Then you've never played on Elendilmir. I've been the subject of it, too, but thankfully it came at a time when I realized I needed a break anyway. I had my baby girl and came back with a whole new perspective about what matters and what doesn't. I no longer allow myself to be pushed around.

I have to wonder if the OP wasnt on the edge of leaving is using these as a means to mentaly justify doing so.

Without knowing the situation and from my personal experience I have found there isnt much that /ignore doesnt solve when it comes to any jackwaggons I come across. If it extends beyond anything that /ignore cant resolve then I dont see GM's putting up with it once contacted.

On the words people use in games....it is the anonymous internet. Dont participate in it of you are thin skinned or want everything to be "your" way. While some would like to see a higher level of decorum you cant expect it of everyone.

I can just agree what everyone have said so far about the situation for being honest as for being another female player i have been in situations like this and yes it feels like it is a waste of time and energy when you have to report and ignore but it helps since you can move on and enjoy the game while the gm's takes good care of the nasty people

OP i hope you will read this there is a fantastic community that cares so give it some thoughts

I hope everyone will have a nice sunny spring day

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Originally Posted by NaughtyMistress

And this thread isn't about whether my numbers are right. Throwing r*** around casually isn't really cool even if the numbers were .05%.


I think in most cases in PvP, it's not meant to be hurtful. At least not in that manner. But that doesn't stop the fact that for many, it IS hurtful. Intentions only go so far.

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Agree completely with you.

If your mother had been r###d and was in the room with you at the time of you getting beat down in a raid, would you still be comfortable using the word to describe the situation? Or would the word "r##e" forever mean something more to you.

If there is a large chance the word is going to be hurtful, why use it? To be clever/funny?

On the other hand I think Turbine needs to step the patrol on the OP's server because situations like these cannot be tolerated, we cannot allow this game to descent to the pits of hell like WoW already has descended.

lol this has absolutely nothing, nada, zip, zero, zilch to do with the fact she is a woman and everything to do with the way she chooses to interact with the community, she is nothing but a troll with a holier than thou attitude that likes to play the victim. She is really the only person I've ever ignored in lotro since beta and I'm not alone in that, a large portion of people in glff have her on ignore. And as far as the harassment/bullying goes while I can't speak to any tells and such, everything directed at her in general chat is usually just her spewing some complete nonsense in glff and someone calls her on it and she takes offense.

I always take claims like this, that haven't any corroborating evidence or even any substantial information, with a hefty grain of salt. Mostly because I've been in situations where I was accused repeatedly of harassment and the like for simply giving an honest opinion in an open forum.

I've never, as a woman playing this game (or even as a woman playing WoW) suffered any such bullying or harassment. But I've been attacked as if I was the aggressor by people who didn't like my point of view.

Harassment is such a hot button issue nowadays that its all to easy to shout it out and get people on your side. And honestly, if someone is going to throw around accusations like that, they need to offer a little bit more in the way of proof before they should just be accepted. Harassment IS serious and it's serious to accuse someone of it.

gee, I was in glff last night and was reading all this supposedly horrible bullying. Sorry, but I didn't see much there that was so awful. Mostly just the usual BS that goes on in glff. The obvious solution to this situation if you get upset with glff and feel attacked is to leave the channel for a while, don't keep it up, and/or report the offenders.

As a woman and an older one that has been in game since nearly the beginning, I've endured a lot of #### from a very very few players. I took most of it in the spirit intended, mostly teasing in fun, and ignored or reported a few that I felt crossed the line. On a whole though, I've found E to be a wonderful supportive server and made a lot of friends that I hope to keep for a lifetime. When I lost my hubby after years of him being ill, this community stepped up and gave me a lot of support and for that I am really grateful. I got mails and messaages from folks that I didn't think were my friends, and those really meant a lot to me to get through a hard time in my real life.

It's kind of fun to use age and gender as an excuse once in a while. :) But, if you go into glff and post ridiculous stuff, expect to get called out and if you can't handle it, don't post in glff.

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Originally Posted by E28TG

lol this has absolutely nothing, nada, zip, zero, zilch to do with the fact she is a woman and everything to do with the way she chooses to interact with the community, she is nothing but a troll with a holier than thou attitude that likes to play the victim. She is really the only person I've ever ignored in lotro since beta and I'm not alone in that, a large portion of people in glff have her on ignore. And as far as the harassment/bullying goes while I can't speak to any tells and such, everything directed at her in general chat is usually just her spewing some complete nonsense in glff and someone calls her on it and she takes offense.

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It's clear at this point (given the poster's history and other comments in the thread) that there is more to the issue than meets the eye. For me, the real question is why the OP brought it to the forums in the first place.

...and, with that, I'm out of this topic. Don't want to wade any further into a hornet's nest.